Geo-TH,In

George;
I use classic view so your post on tie down straps is getting buried on the second and almost on the third page.
So you and others can see it and discuss it lets start a new post.

You asked several questions and asked for someone to provide links to explain to you how to tie something down.
That can be very hard for us to do. We do not know all of Indiana's laws. So while we can go back and forth all day saying DOT laws do not apply to me because I am not commercial (I have gotten into this discussion several times on this site) state laws kick in. While there are federal DOT officers that work for the federal government; most DOT officers we encounter work for the state; are most times state police; and should enforce state laws. So a state DOT officer has just as much authority to stop a motorcycle going 10 mph over the speed limit; a guy hauling a push lawnmower on a trailer with no straps; as he does a over the road truck. So your claim; "I am not commercial" is invalid.

So lets throw "commercial" and "state laws" out of the discussion.
In most states they have adopted federal laws; it is easy for us to discuss federal law; and if you follow federal law you will be within most state standards.

You asked about rub rails.
That is a old law that has been removed.
While using rub rails is not a good practice because they become weak from hitting them and may not be strong enough to hold anything bigger than a riding mower; stake pockets are a good tie down point.
https://www.jjkeller.com/wcsstore/CVCatalogAssetStore/references/miscellaneous/cargo-securement/rubrails.pdf

I have never seen a law that says you can not use straps.
The big thing about straps is you must use edge protectors.
? 393.104: (f) Use of tiedowns
(4) Edge protection must be used whenever a tiedown would be subject to abrasion or cutting at the point where it touches an article of cargo. The edge protection must resist abrasion, cutting and crushing.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/393.104

A strap; chain or rope must be marked. If not marked it will be considered the lowest grade.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/393.108

To tie down equipment you would use the rules in ? 393.130 and ? 393.128
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/393.130
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/393.128

This link is also a good read.

http://www.truckinginfo.com/article/story/2012/05/cargo-securement-what-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you-under-csa.aspx

Pay attention the last couple of paragraphs.......

If that article of cargo were a machine with built-in attachment points, and the driver used the direct method (a chain from a trailer anchor point to a cargo attachment point), five direct attachments would be needed - or four direct and one indirect.

When using the direct method, each tie-down device only gets half its rated working load limit. So, if the devices are rated for 4,700 pounds each, they would get a 2,350-pound allowance (5 x 2,350 = 11,750 pounds AWLL). Four 4,700-pound chains would give you only 9,400-pound AWLL.
Cargo securement isn't rocket science, but there's too much to be taken into account to let poorly trained drivers or sub-standard tie-down equipment ruin your company's safety record.

John, A retired trucker has a son that word the scales at the Indiana Illinois line, DOT. He tells me Only a young DOT might stop locals, most of the time they have bigger fish to fry. I'm 67, NEVER been stopped. NEVER seen a local fish stopped and some should be. NEVER heard in news where any local fish made the news. Not saying you are wrong. I can't wait for them to stop me, love to hear what they have to say. Bet if I ever do, I'll post it.
I would love to read where a small fish made the news. Please post it.
George

It was 20 years ago, however asking for information on hauling from Indiana to my Colorado home note the following.Stopped at Colorado scales with gasoline powered pick-up on way east.Stated Im going to Indiana to get my goose neck trailer I built in my construction shop. Will be hauling various agricultural items returning to Colorado. What do I need to be legal? He asked if I owned all the items including the trailer. Yes Asked if it was fifth wheel? well no its a 2 5/16 ball in floor of bed. Do you have trailer license on trailer. No will license in Colorado as it has not been licensed for 5 years. Is your towing vehicle gasoline or diesel? Gasoline 3/4 ton 4x4 . He said with a grin , well it would be fun to actually go over your load, however with personally owned trailer and items, gasoline power and ball hitch we technically have no authority to stop you .Please wave as you go past and thanks for stopping to ask. He also stated thats only Colorado , however I'm thinking this is the only scale you cannot avoid. Also for everbodys safety and yours please do tie down the load securely. This does not mean any state officer is some states will not stop you for no plates . Be sure and carry title for the trailer. He also said he would note that I asked before and note would be on file. He said we do try to be considerate of fellows like you who stop in first. If the trailer and truck had a fifth wheel plate this would be a totally different conversation.

You are all kinda right, but the rules are so foggy that you will not get the same answer twice, and personal attitude of the officer will change as you go..I think having a tidy load and out fit, tied down well with all the lights working is the beginning of having a good trip. I know it sounds vain, but looks have a lot to do with being pulled over, a raggy old truck and trailer is just asking to be checked out...and as far as straps go I would never use them to hold equipment on,, I see all kinds of methods come in here and most of the times with straps they are ether "near" cut,, or "completely cut"..I would travel to more out of state shows if it wasn't for running the gauntlet with the Law and all the attitudes of the officers involved,, and yes there are a lot of them with good intentions, but it only takes one or two to ruin your trip... It seems that most of them wake up wanting to ruin some ones day...Darn it

Interesting attitude Geo, I generally try my best to comply, it's not that hard and good practice basically, and if the misfortune of a serious wreck occurs I will have a leg to stand on!Guess you had good luck for all these years tho so why worry now, each to there own

Here's an example, yes it was owned by a big company but why would you think a lawyer would go easy on you geo just because your a small businesses? In fact the utility probably is a lot better insured and has lawyers on staff to handle this much better than you or i. Fatal is fatal weather it was a backhoe owned by a farmer, homeowner, contractor or utility
Backhoe fatality

"we technically have no authority to stop you"

I would have to see that in writing.
Maybe someone here can provide a link or explain to me how a state officer does not have authority to enforce state laws.
Since safety is enforceable on gasoline powered cars as much as it is on large trucks.


So let me ask this.
If state DOT officers do not have authority to stop gasoline powered cars and small trucks without a 5th wheel trailer; I'm guessing he can do nothing about someone like this.



So if that is true then I guess this highway fatality is not prosecutable.



Or do we have to wait for fatalities to happen before state officers do something to the general public.

Yeah, like they have their badge pinned to their skin.....

READ READ READ It was a SCALE not officer on the road!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill, that explains why the cops around Terre Haute don't seem to shive a get about local boys that are not in business hauling personal items. I've seen many who are in the lawn care business. Pick ups pulling 3 Dixie hoppers on a trailer, ball hitches, nothing strapped down, weedwackers, push mowers, lawn care signs on trucks, no DOT# and the cops have better things to do. I've seen them go past state, local and city cops and NEVER ONCE seen a cop that stops them. So in a way an I'm right, DOT regulations apply to commercial interstate commerce.

On a few occasions, I've gone past a weigh station in Indiana, never stopped, never had state police come after me.

I know I would get a tick if the YT police were on duty.

geo

I do more than most, I use 8 independent tie points. My electric brakes work perfectly. I've Never had a wreck. How may people 67 years old can say that? Never had a speeding ticket either. I've never had anything fall off truck or trailer. Yes everyone is liable, business or not. That's why we all carry insurance. I'm extremely careful.

But the YT police think all DOT rules apply to non commercial people towing private things. Yet no cop stops and ticket people carrying personal items unless there is actually in an accident, then you can get a ticket for not having a secure load.

No one has posted where a cop handed a ticket to an individual, not commercial, carrying personal items that were not secured properly and not involved in an accident. geo.

I did have to go bring down chains and binders to a friend once because the cop in Massachusetts didn't like his two straps and rope that he used to secure a pickup truck on his car trailer. So he got a ticket for improper securement, which he deserved every bit, and the cop wouldn't let him leave until he secured it properly. But it wasn't a tractor so maybe you won't consider that to be an example Geo. I do recall him being upset that it was over a 150 dollar ticket!

And Geo you don't like to think you are not commercial I can assure you that in the letter of the law you are since you use your backhoe to maintain your rental properties which are a business

Terra mites are exempt!!!!!!!!!!OK OK I do have the info on the QT that nnalert is considering George as on the A-list for VP

As a trucker who uses flat-bed truck and trailer, I decided a long time ago,Commercial or Private, It doesn't take much time to throw one more strap or chain. I usually use straps , but I usually have 2 more than necessary. John law looks at and moves on to find someone who didn't try to do it right. I just smile and wave.
Tim in OR

John,Half the fatalities on the road are by drunks. Next is distracted drivers, cell phones top that list.

Somethings is wrong here, second pic is a white mattress, city streets, other one is blue mattress express way.

There is no argument that we should all do are best at securing loads.

Like many things in this country, there are laws against drugs, yet some states ignore those laws. There are laws against gun violence, yet people everyday are being killed by guns. There are laws against speeding, yet speeders kill people. there are laws using cell phones while driving, seat belt laws. There are laws requiring people to use turn signals before changing lanes, yet there is road rage.

I could go on, I think you get my point.

If we have laws requiring all individuals to secure loads a certain way, THEN WHY AREN'T THEY BEING ENFORCED???? WHY DON'T THE COPS SHIVE A GET????? DO SOMETHING. I'm on your side, highway safety. I would like to see cops do their job, if it really is their job. Or we have laws and no one is enforcing them?

geo.

There are only so many cops and they can only do so much.

If you want everything enforced 100% to the letter of the law, you need at least one cop for every man, woman, and child in this country. Think taxes are too high now? Think we live in a nanny state now?

Bill you will never be a quarter low.