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- Thread starter Greg1959
- Start date
Eldon (WA)
Well-known Member
(quoted from post at 21:06:38 04/16/16) I paid 10.15% tax after deductions and I have no problems with that. I'll send the Money Order Monday.
Why do people complain about paying taxes??? I don't get it...???
Property taxes are what get me.....
retired farmer
Well-known Member
Because you worked and earned the money honestly, the government doesn't need it because they will just waste it.
(quoted from post at 22:21:33 04/16/16) So raise the price of food so farmers can make actually farm and make a little money you wouldn't work for free either
OK 80K farmers VS 310 million or so angry food buyers and just who's supposed to raise those prices? And don't think the politicians can do it.
Unless farmers stop overproducing the farmer isn't going to get paid more. Why do you think they like ethanol so much? It raises the demand for corn. Farmers that don't direct market, in other words most farmers, don't determine the price of food. The only way the farmer is going to consistently get paid more is if somehow they can all get together and collectively control production.
Rick
10% would be fine if everyone paid it. Keep in mind though if you are not self employed, your employer pays the same amount of payroll taxes that you do on your income, they pay half and you pay the other half. Some people don't pay income taxes, some people get more back in credits and deductions than they paid in all year. Then the gooberment wastes all that money and still drives the debt up over 19 TRILLION dollars and counting.
Pair-a-dice farm
Well-known Member
(quoted from post at 00:06:38 04/17/16) I paid 10.15% tax after deductions and I have no problems with that. I'll send the Money Order Monday.
Why do people complain about paying taxes??? I don't get it...???
I'm guessing that the 10.15% is on income only. Add in property tax, sales tax, gas tax, license, fees.....and it goes on. I don't mind paying tax either but there is so much waste. Look at the number of government employees, the private sector is paying for all of their salaries and benefits, plus all of the schools, military, roads, everything. I've read that there are only about 60% in the private sector workers paying the way for the other 40% that are government employees and welfare recipients.
I wish there were more people like you and that they would agree to pay mine because I would gladly let them. If the IRS included a checklist where a person could indicate where they wanted their money spent it might be a whole lot different, but they don't and they never will. I strenuously object to paying for government subsidized murder of unborn babies, illegal aliens running wild across our country, suppression of Christianity, industry killing regulation and literally thousands of other wasteful, sinful and downright un-American programs and laws.
TomH in PA
Well-known Member
If you're going to control production to create artificial shortages you'll also need to control imports. There are plenty of other countries around the world that would happily supply food at the higher prices.
(quoted from post at 01:21:51 04/17/16) yeah wasted on roads, schools, fire and police, teachers, inspection of food supply, defense, public health, farmer welfare and price supports......
I don't object to paying my fair share for things you listed, except maybe farmer welfare and price supports that are needed because of gov't meddling in the first place in some cases. I do object to paying more than my fair share for foreign aid to nations that work against us, to programs that have out lived their mandate like the PBS and NPR, to fund grants for things that are clearly useless (really- there was a high dollar grant to study the drinking habits of Asian prostitutes) or to fund the billions in PORK, PORK, PORK that are just politicians using tax payer dollars to buy votes. That's what I object to. Instead of sending billions to our enemies, we should be taking care of our vets, sick and infirm. We should be dealing with drug addiction and mental health instead of trying to usurp peoples rights. We should be trying to make America an economic marvel instead of a welfare state.
That's what I object to. Wasted money spent buying "green" energy for the military or investing tax payer dollars in more Solyndras. Wasted money spent jetting politicians around the world instead of fixing our infrastructure. Giving "Most favored nation status" to Communist China instead of competing with them or making it easier for American business to compete with them.
We are quickly becoming another fat and lazy bourgeois welfare state, where a few workers and borrowed money feed and provide for the politicians in the oligarchy who divy out a living for the couch potatoes and whiners. We accept criminals entering this nation illegally and provide for them, yet we let out vets die for lack of decent care. After all, the vets aren't likely to vote for the left! Our children, apparently, expect "free stuff" so they can walk into a $300K a year job and no skill workers think they deserve what a freshman teacher or nurse makes, and there are politicians using tax payer dollars to fund these ideas and coddle that voting block.
Man, you touched a hot button topic for me. I'll stop ranting, but there are many, many, many very good reasons for complaining about taxation. But if you're only paying 10% on your income tax, then you aren't in the bracket that makes it hurt all the worse.
Social security is over 15% alone, so you are making up a number that has no meaning, where did you get 10% from?
My property taxes are $47 an acre.
Sales tax has had so many city, county, and local fees added we don't know what it is - 7.5 - 8.75% I belive?
They cleaned the co ditch a few years ago, that was $24 an acre.
They have a per vehicle fee added to the state licence fee now.
Special fees are being added to many products and services I. This state. Never sure what % those are, as they are being hidden to us.
EPA and DNR has many fees and additions to stuff we buy.
If you truely pay 10% well good for you.
That does not reflect most people tho.
Paul
My property taxes are $47 an acre.
Sales tax has had so many city, county, and local fees added we don't know what it is - 7.5 - 8.75% I belive?
They cleaned the co ditch a few years ago, that was $24 an acre.
They have a per vehicle fee added to the state licence fee now.
Special fees are being added to many products and services I. This state. Never sure what % those are, as they are being hidden to us.
EPA and DNR has many fees and additions to stuff we buy.
If you truely pay 10% well good for you.
That does not reflect most people tho.
Paul
Dave Sherburne, NY
Member
Check your phone bill, mine has 13 lines of taxes and surcharges. BUT I'll bet the amount of those taxes doesn't come close to paying the salaries of the employees who have to keep track of that and distribute the money to the tax entities. I like Ted Cruz's idea of a 10% flat tax.
RedGreenGuy
Member
Ever notice how "they" (State of Illinois) have changed the word tax to fees. Our local all volunteer (only way to make it work) rescue group, a not for profit 503C corp, recently purchased a used vehicle for rescue runs. Purchased license and tagged for $850 dollars in fees. Told we were excempt from tax on the purchase, but state changed the wording to fees.
In vocational school, an instructor said that we only pay taxes on what we have. If you have nothing, then that is what you owe. We should all pay our fair share. But many of our citizens can not agree on what is fair.
In 2014, I worked a lot of overtime. I paid in about $2800 more that year, than in 2015. They schedule mandatory overtime and I just say no. I paid the government $2800 so that I could work for someone on MY time off.
SDE
In 2014, I worked a lot of overtime. I paid in about $2800 more that year, than in 2015. They schedule mandatory overtime and I just say no. I paid the government $2800 so that I could work for someone on MY time off.
SDE
Brent Zappe
Member
Hey when it comes to taxies: I pay on the property I have, the house, cars and trucks tages each year, and yes it still goes out on my pay check each month. You might say in California any thing youbuy there is a sales tax and you can add the gosoline and diesel tax plus the taxies on liveing such as your uilities. I know every thing I pay on in taxies is my fair share. Like every body say if you do not have it or any money than you should not have to pay any thing. I forgot I even pay on my saveings what can I say i just do not win. I hope you paid your taxies this year I know I did.
Dave H (MI)
Well-known Member
I'm not going to read all the responses because I do not have time. This weekend I spend half a day in here finishing up with tax season and the other half outside getting things ready for planting and cleaning up winter debris. You don't pay 10%. You pay a lot of other taxes, some of these are hidden, most are obvious. At your stated rate, I can guess a lot about your tax return and life because I have a LOT of experience. I would be willing to bet the actual taxes you pay are around 4 times that. AND....without having read the responses, I would be willing to bet that others have pointed that out AND....that they have told you that the problem is not paying taxes but rather where the money goes that troubles most people. Government waste is the big problem, not tax rates. Am I close?
In 2012 I was able to do some research, and had time to go through my reciepts to figure the hidden taxes, such as excise taxes, road use taxes, and any fee that a government entity required me to fork over. I came up with 57% of what I made that year went to some form of government fee, or tax. That did not include the liability portion of my insurance, which is the mandated part. I don't remember why I excluded that. I also am not sure that I uncovered all the fees that are added to my purchases before the retail price is taxed at the point of sale. For example, a big one that most people do not realize is how much is added to your electric bill to cover government mandates.
Pair-a-dice farm
Well-known Member
I looked this up this AM.
According to the government there are something over 110 million people on welfare. There are 142 million gainfully employed. Of those employed, 19.6% are working for the government is some way. If those figures are accurate, then a little over 114 million tax payers are paying for all the services and benefits. There are around 315 million legal citizens in the US.
According to the government there are something over 110 million people on welfare. There are 142 million gainfully employed. Of those employed, 19.6% are working for the government is some way. If those figures are accurate, then a little over 114 million tax payers are paying for all the services and benefits. There are around 315 million legal citizens in the US.
(quoted from post at 08:39:35 04/17/16) I looked this up this AM.
According to the government there are something over 110 million people on welfare. There are 142 million gainfully employed. Of those employed, 19.6% are working for the government is some way. If those figures are accurate, then a little over 114 million tax payers are paying for all the services and benefits. There are around 315 million legal citizens in the US.
Actually some people don't work at all and still pay taxes. So there are more than 114 million tax payers. Another group is upper middle class and the wealthy where it's very common for the one spouse not to work. So the non working spouse isn't exactly sucking down the system.
Can't find it right now but a couple of years ago a tax group figured that for a person who owns their own home and receives no for of government assistance the average taxes including sate and fed income, SS, sales, property, gas, phone and any others is around 35% for a middle income family.
Rick
(quoted from post at 09:06:10 04/17/16) Actually it's closer to 51% today.
I can believe that. We have to pay for those who don't work, those who are not capable of earning decent money (the ones who were born that way I have no problem with helping) and underachievers who never did anything to earn more money. We have a local guy here, related, with a couple of kids who falls into the last category. He and his wife are bragging to everyone they know how they got everything back plus with earned income and child care credits about 4500 more than they paid in. They also are on the SNAP program and get heating assistance. Then they sit a whine about those who they don't think pay their fair share! I doubt they will brag to me again, I was somewhat rude!
Rick
Pair-a-dice farm
Well-known Member
(quoted from post at 12:00:00 04/17/16)(quoted from post at 08:39:35 04/17/16) I looked this up this AM.
According to the government there are something over 110 million people on welfare. There are 142 million gainfully employed. Of those employed, 19.6% are working for the government is some way. If those figures are accurate, then a little over 114 million tax payers are paying for all the services and benefits. There are around 315 million legal citizens in the US.
Actually some people don't work at all and still pay taxes. So there are more than 114 million tax payers. Another group is upper middle class and the wealthy where it's very common for the one spouse not to work. So the non working spouse isn't exactly sucking down the system.
Can't find it right now but a couple of years ago a tax group figured that for a person who owns their own home and receives no for of government assistance the average taxes including sate and fed income, SS, sales, property, gas, phone and any others is around 35% for a middle income family.
Rick
I understand that those figures were for tax payers. Whether it was taxes on earned or unearned income wasn't clear but it makes little difference. Either way undocumented people weren't counted into the equation so that might offset any unemployed spouses.
I don't believe that 35% figure. In many places the sales tax alone is near 10% and that is on money that has already been taxed.
(quoted from post at 15:58:35 04/17/16) why are you kidding your self or are you cookingthebooks we pay 51.2 %
As I said it was a couple of years ago. It may be more now. I don't really pay too much attention to it because we don't have any say in it. One way or another they will get their pound of flesh. I do look at voting records and such before elections but day to day I don't worry about it.
Rick
Deere Scotty
Member
Before the US Civil War the entire Federal Government was run on import/export taxes. Now lets add up everything You pay Federal tax on. What comes out of a pay check is just the beginning. There are the State, County, Local, City, Medicare, SS, & a list of other taxes that would fill literally pages. Everything a company pays in taxes is charged back to us. its got to be closer to 40 -60% without tax write offs with a really good income. Look at all the transportation, & petroleum charges.
Its basically everything thrown together people are mad about!
Its basically everything thrown together people are mad about!
When you think about this, don't just think about the taxes you see. Yeah, you see that you pay Federal and State income tax, sales tax, land and property tax. Consider that every single item you buy, you are paying someone elses taxes on. If Joe Sixpack or ABC Corp makes an item you purchase, they price it so that all their costs, plus profit, is added into the price. So their income tax, land and school, healthcare, etc. is all added in. That's why raising taxes on the corps or business always results in higher prices.
Also consider all the unseen taxes you aren't even aware of. The excise taxes, regulatory fees and costs, the permits and things way back up the line you don't even consider.
I don't have a way to figure all this, but I can say with certainty that if any politician really wanted to help the common man he wouldn't be worried about taxing the rich. He'd be looking at lowering sales, property, school, excise, etc. taxes. In my state, 64 cents of every gallon of gas is TAX. It increases as the gas price rises. And they tax heating oil/gas/electricity here in the cold north.
It's enough to drive you mad.
Midnight basketball, abortions, making all those welfare bums fat, giving it to foreign nations, paying for all those illegals sponging off the system.....
Kind of like the "stimulus" that was going to be spent on shovel ready jobs to build of the infrastructure. In the end about 3% went to what they claimed the money was going to.
Kind of like the "stimulus" that was going to be spent on shovel ready jobs to build of the infrastructure. In the end about 3% went to what they claimed the money was going to.
Hay hay hay
Well-known Member
The people that constantly complain about their taxes have many options...places all over the world with little or no formal tax system, but also lots of problems...no jobs,crime, poverty, no education, no roads, no security. How many Americans do you know that left for these utopian low/no tax alternatives ????
Pair-a-dice farm
Well-known Member
(quoted from post at 10:31:48 04/20/16) The people that constantly complain about their taxes have many options...places all over the world with little or no formal tax system, but also lots of problems...no jobs,crime, poverty, no education, no roads, no security. How many Americans do you know that left for these utopian low/no tax alternatives ????
We are getting closer to the realization of how much waste is in our government. We are fast approaching the maximum amount we can be taxed and still our infrastructure isn't being maintained as it should be. If we were to have a major disaster such as an earthquake along the New Madrid fault like the one in 1811, would we have the resources to rebuild? The bridges and roads across this country are getting in very bad shape. The water and sewer systems in several cities are just as bad as Flint, MI.
Those of us that are complaining aren't complaining about taxes for military, police, roads and education, We are complaining about WASTE. Less than 1 mile from my house there is a 100 acre park that has spent more than 3 million in the last 2 years on pet projects. There are 9 full time employees and they have less than 20 campsites that are usually empty. It's a nice place but no one has the money to visit. This is just a very small example of a huge problem.
I don't know what the answer is, Writing your representatives does little and a good person can't get elected.
(quoted from post at 11:31:48 04/20/16) The people that constantly complain about their taxes have many options...places all over the world with little or no formal tax system, but also lots of problems...no jobs,crime, poverty, no education, no roads, no security. How many Americans do you know that left for these utopian low/no tax alternatives ????
As Pair-a-dice said, we don't mind paying for the essentials, for helping when we have to. It's the WASTE and PORK, PORK, PORK. It's the money that is spent on PORK and WASTED that means seniors don't get their SS increase or that the roads are breaking up or that bridges are falling down or that the elderly that need some help can't get it. THAT is why we complain. We'll support an efficient system, but this? What we have now is politicians using tax payer dollars to stay in office perpetually. Thats wrong.
(quoted from post at 15:30:51 04/20/16)(quoted from post at 11:31:48 04/20/16) The people that constantly complain about their taxes have many options...places all over the world with little or no formal tax system, but also lots of problems...no jobs,crime, poverty, no education, no roads, no security. How many Americans do you know that left for these utopian low/no tax alternatives ????
As Pair-a-dice said, we don't mind paying for the essentials, for helping when we have to. It's the WASTE and PORK, PORK, PORK. It's the money that is spent on PORK and WASTED that means seniors don't get their SS increase or that the roads are breaking up or that bridges are falling down or that the elderly that need some help can't get it. THAT is why we complain. We'll support an efficient system, but this? What we have now is politicians using tax payer dollars to stay in office perpetually. Thats wrong.
One person's waste is another guys job. I see local guys here that rant about the "goobermint", but quite happily get their disability ( AKA the redneck retirement plan ) and others that get 6 figure ag subsidies. But to them, that isn't waste.
I know of a local factory, their HR person has the responsibility to make sure that the employees are all signed up for food stamps and other aid programs. These folks work full time, but don't make enough to feed themselves. I believe WallMart does the same thing. It isn't our fathers world, where if you worked, you could provide for your family. Jobs have been globalized, and it isn't changing anytime soon.
Hay hay hay
Well-known Member
Social security taxes, Medicare taxes, property taxes....for your retirement, your healthcare, your kids education and your local roads and your local police protection. It would be good folks also acknowledged the many times when they (or their family) got much more back than they paid in.
The most vocal conservatives I know, are former government employees. Funny how they took the salary and now live on the retirement payments. But, if they were not pulling their share of the load, I wish they would have resigned out of self respect years ago. Do you know any who resigned because they were overpaid and underworked?
The most vocal conservatives I know, are former government employees. Funny how they took the salary and now live on the retirement payments. But, if they were not pulling their share of the load, I wish they would have resigned out of self respect years ago. Do you know any who resigned because they were overpaid and underworked?
GeneMO
Well-known Member
- Location
- Pilot Grove, Mo.
Greg1959. Dont think that computes.
I did a little part time work, no withholding. With Mediare, SS, ?Fica, etc. it took 40% of the gross.
You might need to dig a little deeper.
When it is all said and done, the average wage earner is paying 50% of their income in some form of tax, fee, license, permits, etc.
If I'm lying, I'm dying!
Gene
I did a little part time work, no withholding. With Mediare, SS, ?Fica, etc. it took 40% of the gross.
You might need to dig a little deeper.
When it is all said and done, the average wage earner is paying 50% of their income in some form of tax, fee, license, permits, etc.
If I'm lying, I'm dying!
Gene
(quoted from post at 22:11:01 04/20/16) Social security taxes, Medicare taxes, property taxes....for your retirement, your healthcare, your kids education and your local roads and your local police protection. It would be good folks also acknowledged the many times when they (or their family) got much more back than they paid in.
The most vocal conservatives I know, are former government employees. Funny how they took the salary and now live on the retirement payments. But, if they were not pulling their share of the load, I wish they would have resigned out of self respect years ago. Do you know any who resigned because they were overpaid and underworked?
Likely the former gov't employees understand the WASTE and fraud that eats up tax dollars that should have been used for actually helping people. And likely they contributed to their retirement and still pay their taxes too. You will rarely "get back much more than you put in". You don't "get back" the money you had taken to fund SS. It's a pay as you go program, not a savings account. That's one of the biggest myths in America. We pay for our healthcare. We pay for our schools, police, fire, EMS and highways. We pay for our military and postal service. All we ask is that our politicians spend the money wisely and efficiently, just as we do at home. But they don't, which is why we are taxed more and more and more. Anyone who's worked in gov't has seen the wasted money. Even people looking in from outside can see it if they bother to look. It's not that we object to paying our fair share to support the nation, it's seeing Congressmen and Senators vote to spend that money as if there was some magic goose laying golden eggs and funding the gov't.
Irresponsibility, that's the issue.
(quoted from post at 19:56:21 04/20/16)(quoted from post at 15:30:51 04/20/16)(quoted from post at 11:31:48 04/20/16) The people that constantly complain about their taxes have many options...places all over the world with little or no formal tax system, but also lots of problems...no jobs,crime, poverty, no education, no roads, no security. How many Americans do you know that left for these utopian low/no tax alternatives ????
As Pair-a-dice said, we don't mind paying for the essentials, for helping when we have to. It's the WASTE and PORK, PORK, PORK. It's the money that is spent on PORK and WASTED that means seniors don't get their SS increase or that the roads are breaking up or that bridges are falling down or that the elderly that need some help can't get it. THAT is why we complain. We'll support an efficient system, but this? What we have now is politicians using tax payer dollars to stay in office perpetually. Thats wrong.
One person's waste is another guys job. I see local guys here that rant about the "goobermint", but quite happily get their disability ( AKA the redneck retirement plan ) and others that get 6 figure ag subsidies. But to them, that isn't waste.
I know of a local factory, their HR person has the responsibility to make sure that the employees are all signed up for food stamps and other aid programs. These folks work full time, but don't make enough to feed themselves. I believe WallMart does the same thing. It isn't our fathers world, where if you worked, you could provide for your family. Jobs have been globalized, and it isn't changing anytime soon.
I understand that. And some of those people actually ARE disabled and need our help. I'm fine with that. But the 5th generation welfare recipient? Why are we paying someone to sit around smoking pot and watching porn all day? Why are we paying for studies on the "drinking habits of Chinese prostitutes" or $1.2M to study the breeding habits of woodchucks, $57K to purchase gold embossed playing cards for Air Force 2, $219K to teach college students how to watch TV, $1m to study why people don't ride bikes to work, $1m to preserve a sewer in Trenton NJ as an historic monument, $50m for an indoor rain forest in Iowa.....the list goes on and on. Just look up "pork barrel spending" and you can read for the next 2 hours and never hit the same item twice!
Waste and fraud and obvious vote buying, that's what I object to.
Pair-a-dice farm
Well-known Member
Bret sums up what a lot of us believe. No one that I know wants to cut the help for those that really need it. However most of know at least one person, personally, that is abusing the system. And the vote buying politics is historic, and that applies to all political parties.
As far as the government creating jobs to keep the economy going, that's kind of like dying of thirst and drinking your own urine. It will keep you alive for a short period of time but you will soon run out of pi$$. The taxes that government employees pay was tax money to start with so it doesn't help in revenue.
As far as the government creating jobs to keep the economy going, that's kind of like dying of thirst and drinking your own urine. It will keep you alive for a short period of time but you will soon run out of pi$$. The taxes that government employees pay was tax money to start with so it doesn't help in revenue.
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