Ford 8n and Ferguson similarities

skipstein · Apr 10, 2016

Howdy All;
A question for discussion. My new Ford 8N tractor has all the usual sheet metal, front and rear 8N wheels, flathead, and four speed transmission. It also has, apparently, a Ferguson 'tool pocket' fender(s). My question is whether the rear section of a Fergsuon is the same
bolt up as the Ford 8N? Could I just have Ferguson rear fenders on an 8N or a Ford 8n front and Fergson rear section?
Thanks,
Skip

danofarming · Apr 10, 2016

I have never researched it but I believe the similarities begin and end with the draft control.

DeltaRed · Apr 10, 2016

I'd say you have an 8N with Ferguson fenders.

old-9 · Apr 10, 2016

It is known that ferguson "acquired" a set of blueprints of the Ford 9-N that was used to make the ferguson TO 20 tractor, with several changes. Many parts do interchange. joe

Bob NY · Apr 10, 2016

What do your brake pedals look like? The 8N has 2 pedals on the right side. The right brake pedal goes back to the shaft that actuates the brake. The left pedal goes forward to a shaft that goes through the transmission case with an arm on the other end connected to a rod that goes back to the brake shaft on the left. There is no brake pedal on the left side. The Ferguson 20 and 30 have 3 brake pedals. One on each side going back to apply each brake individually, and a third pedal going forward that applies both brakes at the same time.

Leroy · Apr 10, 2016

Sounds like your fenders are replacement possibly from a parts yard due to orignals having been destrowed. Yes Ferguson fenders and all attachments that bolt to the rear axle fit both the Ford 9, 2, 8N, NAA, 600 and 800 and grey 2000 and 4000 utility tractors and the TE20, TO20, TO30, FE35 , T035, MF35 tractors. The Ferguson with the tool box built into the fenders did not come out untill the 35 series, Not sure if Ford did that on later models or not. So yes the fenders could be from a Ferguson if orignals were either destroyed someway or a previous owner wanted more tool storage. But the Ferguson that those fenders came on the back half would not mate up to any Ford. If any would mate up and I dought it, it would be a TE20, TO20 or TO30, only models the tranny is near enough alike to possible be able to do that.

Arnold Layne · Apr 10, 2016

Won't help answering Skip's question much but you guys need to read up on the relationship between Henry Ford and Harry Ferguson.

Leroy · Apr 10, 2016

The Fergusons DO NOT have 3 brake pedals. I had a 30 so I know.

skipstein · Apr 10, 2016

Hello Gentlemen;
Thank you for all your comments. I have no knowledge or history of the tractor before I got it. The guy I bought it from had not had it long. Sounds like Fergie fenders on an 8N. One question, about the 3 tyhree brake pedals; I have two brake pedals on the right side of the tranny, left and right brake. I have heard of Fords having a common pedal along with individual ones (?), but I thought that was in later years. The serial number is almost gone due to paint and wear, so I have not been able to definitively read it. Everything on the tractor suggests early 8n vintage, including the front mount distributor, clutch linkage, four speed, wheel hubs, etc. With the unit being over 60 years old, who knows...
Thanks again,
Skip

daisyman · Apr 10, 2016

Leroy, I think you'd better reread what you answered to. Bob in NY is absolutely correct...individual pedals on each side for right and left and one on the right side of the trans on the running board to activate both......

p>Irv

Bob NY · Apr 10, 2016

Thank you!

daisyman · Apr 10, 2016

You're Welcome ;>)

skipstein · Apr 10, 2016

Hello Bob NY;
The setup that you described is actually what I have. The only pedal on the left or the trans is the clutch, with two brake pedals on the right side. My tractor also has the left brake pedal, shaft thru the case to the left side brake.
Thanks for the explanation.
SKip

Richard L · Apr 11, 2016

Leroy I grew up on a Ferguson TO 30 and all TO 20/30s I have seen all have three brake pedals.

Bob NY · Apr 11, 2016

You're welcome.

Hobo,NC · Apr 11, 2016

Neighbor has a late 8N with a fergi rear section and some fergi front axle parts on it. Yes some fergi parts will bolt on, from the rear of the trans back and some of the front axle parts.

skipstein · Apr 11, 2016

Hello Hobo,NC;
Very interesting comments about the 8n Fergie combination. Any elaboration on details or remembrances of what he has, would be greatly appreciated. I will have to take a detailed look at front end components of a Fergie would be different. What model Ferguson is the
same as an 8n?
Thanks again,
Skip

Leroy · Apr 11, 2016

Mine and every other Ferguson that I see has the clutch on the left and 2 brake pedals on the right, no combination pedal.Has that been removed on all of them?

Ken(Ark) · Apr 11, 2016

(quoted from post at 09:36:52 04/11/16) Mine and every other Ferguson that I see has the clutch on the left and 2 brake pedals on the right, no combination pedal.Has that been removed on all of them?

I did an search and did not find the extra brake pedal in question . Maybe it was an option or aftermarket item ? Seems like someone could post a pic and end this discussion .

Dan S (NY) · Apr 11, 2016

That would be true for Ferguson TO35s but not TO20/TO30s.

Dan

daisyman · Apr 11, 2016

Yes, Harry Ferguson hired a guy to set on the end of the line and take the main brake pedal off of all the Fergusons that went to your area. He didn't think you could run three. He figured you were going around in circles, and just put two on so you could stop straight. The rest of us have an individual brake on each side, and the main one on the right side that activates both individual pedals.
Picture 1 is the left side individual brake, picture 2 is the right side individual brake, #3 is duplicate, picture 4 is the brake pedal that runs them both. 1 plus two is three. Three brake pedals to run two brakes.

Ark68SS · Apr 11, 2016

(quoted from post at 07:36:52 04/11/16) Mine and every other Ferguson that I see has the clutch on the left and 2 brake pedals on the right, no combination pedal.Has that been removed on all of them?

From the parts book. My TO 20 has 3 pedals.
BillL

jwmfarms · Apr 11, 2016

Please explain to me why Harry Ferguson would have had to "acquire" a set of 9N blueprints, when he designed it in the first place?!

skipstein · Apr 11, 2016

HI Ark68SS;
Great parts listings on the three pedal discussion. Have you found having three pedals is an asset doing the chores with your Ferguson TO 20? Maybe my next tractor should be a Massey Ferguson... TO 20.
Thanks,
Skip

Bob NY · Apr 11, 2016

If you want to move up in the world, get yourself a Ferguson TO-35 or Massey Ferguson 35 with a 2 stage clutch which means it has "Live PTO" and "Live Hydraulics".

Jason S. · Apr 11, 2016

(quoted from post at 19:55:35 04/11/16) Please explain to me why Harry Ferguson would have had to "acquire" a set of 9N blueprints, when he designed it in the first place?!

I've said the same thing. Most N series Ford guys want to give no credit to Harry Ferguson even though without him there would be no Ford N tractor. It is well established that Harry Ferguson was the chief engineer over the tractor and they could not change one bolt or nut without his approval. Yes Ford had engineers that designed a lot of it and Fergusons team did too. But Harry had the final say on it so therefor they was his blueprints anyway!!!

Richard L · Apr 11, 2016

Look at that, to me it looks like this tractor has the Sherman live hydraulics when looking at the left side brake. I cannot say this is a fact but it seems sometime ago I read Henry wanted to make the Ford tractors 2 inches longer. Harry told him no. After realizing Harry wasn't giving into the extra two inches per tractor he asked Harry why not. Harry said unless you have a lot of money these tractors need to stay at these lengths because you can get 5 tractors on a train car. With your length you can only get 4 tractors on a car. You want to pay all that extra money? End of discussion. Does anyone ever remember reading something similar?

daisyman · Apr 11, 2016

Richard, it has a Sherman live PTO on it, a Sherman combination over-under, a factory tach, and spin out rims. The rims might be off a 35 but that's the way I got it. I think the lever you're looking at stops the tractor when pushed forward, thus the live PTO. It's like a hand clutch on a WD45 Allis. I have another one just like it.
I can't recall that story about the longer tractors, but the old memory ain't what it used to be. ;>)

Irv

skipstein · Apr 11, 2016

Hello Bob NY;
Does the Ferguson TO 35 or the MF35 both have the 3 pedal set up. Not being very familar with either tractor, are they similar and/or the same vintage? I can see moving up in the world of tractors in the future. Live hydraulics would be a good thing. Do either one of these tractors have the external hydraulic pump? Something I wish my 8n had...
Thanks,
SKip

Bob NY · Apr 11, 2016

The 35 has 2 brake pedals, both on the right, both go forward. The left brake pedal is keyed to the shaft. The right brake pedal is free on the shaft. The 35 is newer than the 8N and the Ferguson TO-30. The hydraulic pump is internal.

Ken(Ark) · Apr 11, 2016

(quoted from post at 16:22:39 04/11/16)

(quoted from post at 19:55:35 04/11/16) Please explain to me why Harry Ferguson would have had to "acquire" a set of 9N blueprints, when he designed it in the first place?!

Click to expand...

I've said the same thing. Most N series Ford guys want to give no credit to Harry Ferguson even though without him there would be no Ford N tractor. It is well established that Harry Ferguson was the chief engineer over the tractor and they could not change one bolt or nut without his approval. Yes Ford had engineers that designed a lot of it and Fergusons team did too. But Harry had the final say on it so therefor they was his blueprints anyway!!!

I believe the blueprints were drawn by Harold Brock as a Ford employee with the assistance of Ford , Ferguson , and the Ford car chief engineer . It was not a set of blue prints that Mr Ferguson walked up to Ford and said "Build This"

This was a bad business deal between two good men . Henry passed away and his grandson Henry II noticed that Ford Motor Co had lost 25 million in 6 years on the project while Mr Ferguson's sales departments were cashing in big time .

Henry II was right to stop production if his company was loosing money but then he basically built the same tractor with only superficial changes . It work with the war department on the 2N change .

http://www.iptv.org/mtom/story.cfm/feature/3145/mtom_20110520_3638_feature

skipstein · Apr 12, 2016

Hello Ken Ark;
Great video of Harold Brock. I learned the real story. By the way, was the 2N and 8N 2 inches longer?
Thanks,
Skip

Ford 8n and Ferguson similarities

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