Measuring the Lower and Upper Link Points

dgoddard

New User
I do not know how others do it but When making attaching an implement with a 3 point hitch, but getting the location of the
Lower Link point (where the lower link attaches to the tractor)
and
Upper Link Point (where the top link attaches to the tractor)
can be a real pain, especially the upper one).

My technique is as follows:
Tools required:
-- Concrete slab to park the tractor on.
-- Plum bob
-- Yard stick
-- Chalk
-- Level
-- Square (Carpenters square usually but a smaller one may be useful

Using the plumb bob to drop a vertical from the lower link point and mark it on the concrete Do both sides and draw a line between them

1,
Drop a vertical from the upper llink point. (some times you can actually do this but if necessary use the level to hold the yard stick parallel to the floor and drop a vertical a known distance behind the upper hitch point and measure back under the upper link point and mark that on the concrete.
2.
Get the lower links level and Using the plum bob drop a vertical from the hitch point at the ends on both sides and draw a line on the concrete between them. This must be done because The true [b:4285040009][u:4285040009]effective[/u:4285040009] [/b:4285040009] length of the lower links is the distance between the line of the lower link points and the line of the lower hitch points. (Do not just measure the length of the lower links )
3
Measure the vertical height of the lower link points.
Measure the vertical height of the upper link point.
And subtract the lower from the upper heights. This is dimension A

Measure the distance between the line of the lower link points back to the mark for the Upper Link Point This dimension B

--------------Keeping an implement level or at a chosen angle -------------------
You might want a "carry-all" level but you might want a tiller at a bit of an angle to keep its input shaft level and parallel to the tractor's PTO shaft.

Now level up your implement (or tilt it to what ever other angle you would like). Measure from the hitch pins vertically by the amount of dimension A
Then measure back from that line by dimension B horizontally. (I do mean vertical and horizontal! not just perpendicular to some surface on the implement !) The square and the level may be of some help on this.

Measuring from the hitch pins, A up and B back is where the top pin hole needs to be in order to lift without the implement changing its angle. But to make this work you have to adjust the top link to the same as the "true effective lower link length".

Many manufactured implements will not have the top link hole at this location as the mast may be vertically in line with the hitch pins.

Depending on how for instance a subsoiler plow is built moving it with its bar vertical and its foot at the manufactured angle may be what you want, but you can make it more agressive at pulling down into the soil if you shorten the top link. whereas you can make a grader blade more agressive at pulling down by lengthening thetop link . For a PTO driven implement keeping the input shaft parallel to the tractor's output shafe parallel at all degrees of lift is necessary unless your shaft joints are CV joints. This would be important for a rotary mower or a rotary tiller. However with a carry all you might want it to sit level on the ground but tilt slightly forward once it has a load so as to not dump stuff off the back.

For you old timers with plenty of experience you probably have a good handle on this. And in that case, at best maybe all I have done is shared a way to get accurate measurement. Because to this point all I have described is how to make a parallelogram linkage out of the lift links.

But What I can add is that it is possible and fairly easy to use a computer spreadsheet Like excel or Libre office calc That will let you see what happens to the position and tilt of the implement at every angle or height of lift of the hitch.

Since the lower links and linkpoints on the tractor are pretty much immovable the only effective options are changint the upper link length or moving the hitch pins or the top link pin on the implement But it is possible to experiment with those. At the same time for those who are not all that much into computers, the same thing can be done using push pins and a cork board to make a scale model using cardboard links. For the pins on the implement you can use thumb tacks with the points sticking away from the cork and just stick small corks over the points if you don't want to get stuck. And if you put a piece of graph paper on the cork board You can trace the position of the cardboard cut out of the implement on the paper for different experiments.

[b:4285040009]BUT[/b:4285040009] with a scale model you have to take very accurate measurements.
[b:4285040009]Then again[/b:4285040009] if you are going to have some expense tied up in the construction of the implement you might want to do the cardboard model thing full scale With a sheet of plywood or sheet rock etc. and do it full scale, just to be sure that there are no surprises. With models you may want to draw the tractor tires or other parts on the sheets where the links will be moving to chec for clearances.

Just for the record it is also possible to use that spreadsheet to calculate the forces on all the links to see if the hydraulics can handle it or how strong the links have to be, but in that area I have the advantage of being a retired college professor of mechanical engineering with a speciality in machine design.

Ok, I hope that was useful.
 
You make adjusting an implement on the 3 pt too difficult.

Hook it up, set the pitch of the implement to the angle you want and go.

That is the way I have been doing it for 42 years.

Gary
 
I always knew an engineer could make simple
things complex! Seriously though I have
never needed a plumb bob or any other
measuring device to attach an implement,
back up close, hook up the lower links and
lift it a bit to align the toplink, done
and off to work we go
 

I have yet to find an easy way to back up to a three point hitch implement with a grabby hand clutch Deere and a stiff neck and bifocals. Been doing it for over 50 years and the older I get the tougher it is.
 
You made me ashamed of myself! I went over to the neighbors this morning and showed him how to attatch his new to him, 2 bottom plow, on his new to him ford 8n. Then we took it out to his garden, and leveled it by eye, and he made like GREEN ACRES. I reckon I should have made it look professional, by confusing him with your method. Drat it! I missed a chance, to look knowledgable!
 
I understand what you are saying but as stated before, you're over analyzing big time. The biggest problem is that once you leave the flat level concrete, all your measurements are changed and will continue to change with every hole, hill and bump in the field.

If we would have had a flat level concrete slab and if we would have had a plumb bob when I was a kid, I could only imagin what my dad would have said watching me hook up the 3 point using your method. On second thought, I know exactly what he would have said.................
 
"Ok, I hope that was useful." It was. It gave some the opportunity to belittle the effort you went through to educate them. TDF
 
Are you getting ready to make a new video for "Ed's Garage" That video wowed us all with his knowledge of plowing and prepareing a garden with a Ford N tractor.
Seriously--- just back the tractor up close to the implement and get your butt off the tractor and manhandle the imp. around till it hooks on, or get a quick coupler arch.
Loren
 
My brother is an engineer, and over complicates things like that, or so it seems. I am probably missing something.
That is why I dislike 3pt implements so bad, a pain to get hooked up. When they were only a post hole digger or such you could bull them around to put on. You don't bull an 8 bottom plow.
 
dgoddard,

I hope you've saved that to some sort of file. I think I may copy it and save it for myself. Highly informative. I may even try it here to construct a carry-all for my smallish Kubota three point.

D.
 
I think some of you got sidetracked, about 5 pages back, ED in cny posted asking for 3 point mesurments. This post is more about designing a 3 point tool than just hooking one up. thanks dgo. joe
 
Cool, but...........just as an experiment, I set about using your hookup method and one tractor& plow & had my son wrestle the other plow/tractor together and he did & finished plowing 5 acres & I still wrestling this procedure while he is sipping a cool one!!!
Guess it will be back to pry bar & wrestling.
 
I thought that's how it typically goes too. On that 3 pt fork top link mast build, I already had a starting point with the universal mount brackets with all the holes in it, but I did match and adjustment that aligns with a stabilizer bar setting on my lower lift arms, so you just back in and fiddle to get a pin through, some thought was given to making it easier to hook up. I was nice to have the tractor and implement in the garage to measure off and or mock up so it worked like I wanted.
 

I dont ever adjust the top link to that the implement stays level on the way up...that is NOT what is for. Its adjusted to make the implement run level or at the slant you need for it to work correctly. And in new soil a longer adjustment may be needed and in worked soil a shorter adjustment may be needed. Even on a shredder the link is adjusted to get the "position" at working height, not for keeping it level as you raise it. Some like the shredder a bit nose down at cutting height, I like mine level at working height and like it to be tight enough to pick it up extra high to get over obstacles, but not so tight that the pto shaft is binding when a full pickup. Sickle cutters you adjust for the nose angle of the cutting blades,,, usually level to nose up a bit... disc cutters level or slightly up to help it jump rocks... Box blades level under dragging load so a bit long usually. Even a turnover, the the bite and cut is critical to the top link length. hope I didnt read it wrong..
 
(quoted from post at 16:12:36 02/12/16) dgoddard,

I hope you've saved that to some sort of file. I think I may copy it and save it for myself. Highly informative. I may even try it here to construct a carry-all for my smallish Kubota three point.

D.
Dennis, I think that you are the one that best got my point. I was not trying to tell anyone how to go hook up a general purpose implement but rather was trying to provide information as to how to:
-- design the attachment to an implement
-- and how to modify attachment to an implement
-- and how to identify implement alignment problems.
for instance I suppose that a lot of people here probably know that to run smoothly and not beat itself to pieces, that with ordinary universal joints on a PTO shaft, the setup has to be such that the same angle is bent at both joints. Otherwise no matter how smooth and steady the tractor PTO output runs the implement input shaft has to accelerate and decelerate twice for each rotation of the shaft.

The only way to keep the implement running smoothly at all lift positions is if the implement does not tilt back to front as it is raised and lowered. I love my King Kutter rotary tiller but they just did not put the top link hole in the right place (at least for my tractor). No matter what as that implement is raised and lowered it tilts forward and back as well. The best I could do with it was to adjust it so that when the tiller was fully engaged with the ground that the implement input shaft was parallel to the tractor's output shaft. That is when it is under the greatest load and highest speed for the longest period. When it is raised it is as noisy as hell and shakes mercilessly. Unless the clutch pedal is all the way down and the engine is throttled back. The several hundred pounds of tines, shaft and gears is having to accelerate and decelerate twice for each revolution of the PTO shaft. I suppose it does shake some of the clay off the tines but I would rather not have to keep disengaging the PTO shaft gearing to keep it from beating itself to pieces while I line up for my next pass.

But Dennis, Your intent to build a carry all is exactly the same issue that prompted me to start doing measurements as I too would like to build a carryall. No PTO shaft problems there but I would prefer the carry all to tilt not at all as I lift and lower it and also to know what adjustment to make to achieve a forward tilt so tha a load of firewood is less likely to fall off. And also where I might put an auxiliary top link pin hole so I can get a lot of tilt one way or the other.

A forward tilt when lifted can be an aid to keeping a stack on the carry all.
A tilt backwards when all the way down can make rolling a load onto it a lot easier.
And if you want to build a fork lift attachment a dead level or nearly dead level lift is likely to be preferred.

About the file, I am in the process of revising the file to have a diagram to explain which values are which to enter into the calculation and maybe even use the graphing facility to show how the position changes as you lift and lower the implement. It is much faster to try different dimensions by calculation than making cardboard modles. And need I say way cheaper and faster than welding something up and then guessing how to fix it so it works right.

I see that I can post photo's or attach a serial # list but can I upload a spreadsheet file that will do all the calculations?
 
(quoted from post at 00:15:30 02/13/16)
I dont ever adjust the top link to that the implement stays level on the way up...that is NOT what is for. .
For my subsoil plow the "foot" is set to a 10 degree down at the toe angle, and the top face is 10 degrees more than that for a total of 20. Since a 3 point hitch like mine cannot apply down pressure (can any of them?) I have to depend on those angles to pull the plow into the soil. I can run it at a 16 inch depth but when I am using it to snag boulders or uproot brush, I do not always want it to run full depth. If it changes angle I lose control. Now by changing the top link length I can still change the angle at various depths but mostly I want consistent down pressure regardless of depth. I can only get that if I design the top link attachment hole position correctly or invest in a pricey, I have to fiddle with it" hydraulic top link. and that is too much clap trap for what I need to do.

And yes it is possible to get a wider variety of different behaviours by having multiple top link holes. With the proper calculation ability one can design that into the device. As I have noted in the post I made just before this one.

Judging from the bulk of the posts I got above that, most people did not grasp just what it was I was doing. I am talking about designing an implement or altering one to increase its capability with just a bit of drilling and/or welding.
 

You do know there are spec's for class 0, 1, 2 & 3 3 point attachments.
If you make your attachment to the spec for the class you are using, it will fit.
No reason to overthink it.
 
....... there are spec's for class 0, 1, 2 & 3 3 point attachments.
If you make your attachment to the spec for the class you are using, it will fit.
.....
The copy of the spec that I found, that was posted here somewhere on this website stated that it did not control exactly where the pivot points were placed on various tractor brands or modlels. Without that infomration the results will vary. By following such a specification the implement will attach to the tractor but exactly what it does when lifted will vary. That being said the spec had a rather old date on it. So if you know of a current specification particularly for category 1 I would like to see it. Is there a current version here someplace?
 
Three of my posts back I mentioned a file that I had created that allows calculation of how the implement will move depending on the length of the upper and lower links and the position of the pivots on the tractor and implement. I have revised it so that it contains some self explanatory information so that how it works can be understood by most anybody.

The file is a spreadsheet that performs the engineering (kinematic) analysis that I offer freely and without copyright. The file size is 141.8 kilobytes (small). It uses techniques I taught to my engineering students but this one is simplified just for tractor rear 3 point hitch calculations The data that you need to enter is all in blue bold numbers. There is a diagram showing where the dimensions are to be taken. And the spreadsheet accommodates two different calculations.

1. The first calculation determines where to put the attachment points on the implement and what length to make the top link so that the implement does not tilt at all as it is raised and lowered.
2. The second calculation determines how much forward or rearward the implement will tilt with the attachment points it has.

Because in the second calculation you can change the inputs you can by trial and error tweak what results you can get from the implement. So If you are not getting the performance you want you can come closer.
For instance,:
Suppose if you want a carry all, that tilts just slightly backward just as it sets down to the ground so its back edge is just a bit lower to make rolling a heavy object on but then as you lift it tilts forward to keep the object from rolling off.
Or another scenario perhaps you want the carry all to sharply tip forward when raised but set flat when on the ground because you are loading firewood and then want it to be secure from rolling off while carrying it away.

As the spreadsheet is set up:
A. I have entered the measurements from my Ford/Shubaru 1510 and it tells me what length to make the top link and where I would have to put the toplink hole for the implement to lift without tilting at all.
B. I have entered the dimensions from my tractor when it is coupled to my King Kutter Rotary tiller and computed how long to make the top link so that when fully engaged at maximum depth into the ground so that the Output and Input (Tractor and implement) PTO shafts will be parallel at that position and it shows a graph indicating the direction and magnitude of angular misalignment imposed on the U-joints at all other positions. (Mine gets as bad as 16 degrees at maximum lift, which is why it shakes like hell in that position). Or if I wish I can make for a compromise adjustment for other positions. (You may need to learn how to use the spreadsheet goal seek feature if you do not want to keep trying guesses.

Because this site allows files with only certain file formats, I do not see how to upload it for you to download. The file is a .xls file (Windows 2000 vintage) which is as primative as I can test with my software, and probably correctly readable by 99+% of the spreadsheet applications available out there.

The spreadsheet will probably be most useful for:
a. designing an implement.
b. adjusting the top link for best PTO performance with out beating the implement or U joints to pieces.
c. Controling implement tilt over the range of lift heights.

So if anyone wants a copy of this spreadsheet (which sould run on most any computing device with a spreadsheet capability) all we have to do is figure out how to send it to you. If there is a Personal Message (PM) capability on this site I have not found it. and It is generally inadvisable to post e-mail address on public forums.
 
So I clicked reply but I have no idea if this goes to Dennis as a PM or if this gets posted in the thread.
 
(quoted from post at 00:15:30 02/13/16)
I dont ever adjust the top link to that the implement stays level on the way up...that is NOT what is for. ]Its adjusted to make the implement run level or at the slant you need for it to work correctly. And in new soil a longer adjustment may be needed and in worked soil a shorter adjustment may be needed.
our point is correct with respect to ground engaging implements. This is exactly what I do with the grader blade on my tractor. Lengthening the top link makes it more aggressive when going forward and less aggressive going backward. But not all implements need that kind of adjustment. In fact not all implements are even ground engaging. A "carry all "or a boom pole for instance never need to be more agressive or less agressive They just need to go up and down and a carry all may need to stay level. Power take off equipment DO need to stay level if they are to be running because the simple type of U-Joints do not produce smooth running if they bend different angles at the top and bottom joints and they can shake so badly as to damage or wear the implement.

Even on a shredder the link is adjusted to get the "position" at working height, not for keeping it level as you raise it.
am not familiar with this implement by this name. So for whatever farming purpose it serves for whatever crop or task it is used on I cannot comment but if it is PTO driven without using constant velocity U-joints, it is probably suffering damage if the angle of the joints is not the same by more than a tiny bit.
hope I didnt read it wrong..
our comments appear to be very relevant to the implements as I have noted but those are not the implements I am trying to accomodate.
 

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