Almost a catastrophe

My daughter called and woke me up about 3am this morning.
One of the smoke alarms in her mobile home had woke her up.

After getting her to calm down for a second she confirmed the fire dept was on the way.
Said she did not see any flames but the living room was full of smoke.
She did notice some sparks coming from around the TV on her way out of the house.
I instructed her to turn off the electricity at the main outside breaker and wait for the fire dept.

They found cables for the TV melted and black soot around a splitter where several cable wires hook together.
She had caught it in time before it could catch any of the surrounding things on fire.

So now I am trying to figure out how cables for a TV would spark and get hot enough to melt.
Cable TV wires do not have electricity in them.

Talking to her some more she mention the lights in the living room were going bright and dim during the storm last Tuesday.
She just attributed it too the strong winds during the storm.

So just to be safe I had her call a electrician and the cable people to have them come out and look before we turned the electricity back on.

The electrician showed up first.
He says nothing I can do that is cable wires.
She tells him about the lights going bright so he did some checking.

He finds a bad ground.
Seems from the trailer or electric pole shaking in the strong wind she had lost what the electrician called a ground.
I assume he meant neutral but he said ground.
The electricity could not find a ground so it started hunting one.
It found a ground threw the cable wires.
This melted the cable wires and ruined her TV and cable box.

So while she may be out several hundred dollars for the service call; new TV; and some cable wires.
I feel my daughter and 2 grandkids are alive this evening because of a $20 smoke alarm.

Please Please... If you do not have a smoke alarm in your house; please go buy one Now.
It may be the best $20 you have ever spent.

John in La,

I got to second the neutral being the issue. Please find another electrician in your area. That hunting neutral could spell even greater disaster.

D.

If your Daughter has homeowners insurance she might not be out that much.

You may be surprised to know that cable wire CAN and DO carry significant amounts of electricity. Here in this neck of the woods, I had cable TV wires laying on my garage roof going to near by buildings. I warned the cable companies about them, and told them if they were not removed from my roof, I would cut them. Then I checked with my neighbor who was a technician for RCN in this area. He told me to be careful cutting them as they are LIVE with 110VAC. Seems they use their own cables to power some of their equipment.

It was on a multi-wire branch circuit and lost neutral. The TV got 240 volts from a back feed where the other circuit has a filament or something plugged in[ brings both hot legs around to the appliance].It also was seeking to flow through that cable stuff as it was probably attached some where at the meter pan. It happens a lot in office partitions where a cleaner with a vacuum cleaner knocks the cable and the hots stay connected but the neutral unplugs. Now a light in a copier back feeds all the computers with 240 volts. That connection up top is usually power company made and they may possibly make good on the TV set. She acted very smart and got good advice from you to turn off the main. I'm glad everyone is okay . That is a bad and scary thing . If that connection up top was a romex connector and not a bug from the power company somebody never called for inspection and should be brought up on charges. Even temporarily you can 't use a romex connector for that.But I have seen it .

No

glad to hear everyone is ok!

Glad your daughter and grandkids are OK.

Going to check with our two grown kids to see if they have smoke detectors in their homes... never noticed if they do or don't. (Guess I should ask them about CO2 detectors too.)

Bad neutral. The grounding electrode conductor is tied with the phone,cable etc. Electricity could not go through the ground conductor or neutral. The ground conductor and grounding conductor are bonded at the main. So the path of least resistance was the coax.

That's a close one. I'm thankful your daughter and kids are OK. The fire alarm was their guardian angel.

Go for a Co detector, not a CO2. (I know you know this, but info is important to be correct). Jim

Yep, soon as I read the first few lines, I figured the neutral had been "lost" and the shielding in the cables was providing a current return path to ground/neutral, even before you got to the "bright lights" part.

MANY years ago I had a chop saw sitting on a metal welding table when the welder's ground lead fell of the part I was welding, unnoticed, all the way to the floor. Next thing I smelled burning rubber... the grounded three-wire cord for the chop saw was smoking.

The "ground" lead from the old "buzzbox" I was using was in common with the chassis of the welder which was, of course, grounded.

So the small-gauge cord was providing a ground path back to the welder, and wasn't big enough for the chore.

"Please find another electrician in your area."

While I understand your sentiment on this, I would ask
the current electrician for a more thorough explanation.

Sometimes they know perfectly well what they are doing.
Including that it is easier for a customer to comprehend a
"bad ground" instead of trying to explain what "neutral" is.

John in La- That was quick thinking on your part about killing the service breaker to the trailer. Thank God, everyone made it out Okay.

Hi Royse
I agree with what you say about the guy not using very technical terms. Sometimes I have tried explaining using big words, to a cattle guy with no
mechanical knowledge why his tractor don't work. After many blank stares of "me no understand". In those circumstances I usually just end up telling
them the magic that should happen in the middle to make it work isn't happening. They are quite fine with that and just say fix it,so I can feed my
cattle and send the bill .
Regards Robert

Hi Glad all ended up well the smoke/ other detectors are great things if maintained properly so they work. I can never figure out the guys that smoke 40 a day, and drink a 12 of beer a night but can't afford a smoke detector or batteries for the one they have!.
No where as serious as happened here apart from we love the JD 316 ride on mower dad had issues with it randomly burning the throttle cables . it was the same kinda deal the ground wire from the motor to frame snapped and the throttle cable from the motor to the dash wasn't strong enough to carry the load. After he "fixed' the throttle cable once and it did it again, I looked and found fixed the broken wire, it's been fine ever since.
Those kind of faults in electrical systems of any sort can cause way to many issues that result in a sad loss of life or buildings/ equipment.
Regards Robert

Royse and others;
We fully trust the guy and have used him in the past with no problem.

I thing "Bad Ground" was a way to explain to a young upset woman what he found without going into technical terms.

Wow!!!! John that was amazing she heard it and got out so so many folks dont. I am glad she and her kids are safe.

We moved into our new house a year ago and it only has 1 smoke detector.......I think getting a few more is on my list for Saturday. Thanks for the advice, glad your family is well.

She is very lucky. A trailer caught fire here in Salina, KS earlier this week and a 3 year old was killed, 9 month old critical, and the Grandmother burned over half of here body. They can go up very quick. Can't have enough smoke alarms as far as I am concerned. Happy to hear the good outcome. Bob

We moved into our new house a year ago and it only has 1 smoke detector.......I think getting a few more is on my list for Saturday. Thanks for the advice, glad your family is well.

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I'll have to assume that is a new-to-you house, not new construction. I cannot imagine any jurisdiction allowing only one detector in a whole house anymore.

We have 14, three that are also CO. All wired together 120V plus battery and communicate- when one alarms, they all alarm. Every power outage, one or more with a weak battery will alarm them all until you replace the battery. YES, it is annoying, NO, I WILL NOT defeat or settle for anything less. Allan in NE should be your proof.

You're correct.

Should not post when I'm over-tired and brain is not in gear.