New question on CCW

Al Baker(pumpman) · Feb 19, 2016

Ran into a guy at the parts store I went to school with. Haven't seen him in years, but he started talking about politics. Said we need to get out and vote cause this country is in bad shape. To prove his point he showed me his card to carry a pistol. Then showed me his card to use marijuana for back pain. then showed me his card to grow his own pot. Said his wife had one to. Said each was able to have so many plants each. So he laughed really loud and says," man AL, you have known me all your life. I have been selling pot since JR high. Now I am a Legal pot dealer with a gun! Tell me things aren't #08&cked up in Michigan. We need to get out and vote for the sake of our children." I haven't been able to stop thinking about this . Ok is it just me ,,, or does something scream out WRONG here. Makes me think of the commercial on tv lately,, "so whats in your wallet?" Legal to Grow, and sell pot, and carry a gun.

Pitch · Feb 19, 2016

So are you showing your prejudice against LEGAL pot growers or LEGAL gun owners? You really need to educate yourself on both issues!

dr sportster · Feb 19, 2016

I can't stop laughing on this one.

old · Feb 19, 2016

Whats the difference in pot of or some one who is drinking beer etc or some one who takes pain pills etc. As long as taken in a correct way you should be able to do any of those and still have a gun. Ya there is a point that to much is to much but that can be with most any thing like those

Al Baker(pumpman) · Feb 19, 2016

I am not throwing stones at anyone. I just find it strange that someone who has been selling for 40 years now can do it legal, but I can get fined for not having my seat belt on. kind of silly.

rrlund · Feb 19, 2016

Smoke a joint,get on your motorcycle without a helmet and go buy a gun. Ain't it great?

Unfortunately,here in Michigan the pot thing doesn't have anything to do with politics,it was a ballot initiative where we voted to let the dopers do it. We were lied to and sold a bill of goods when they told us who would be able to get it and why. Simple as that.
The fact that Washington won't enforce current drug laws,where the matter's concerned,that might be politics,but I don't see anybody running who'll do anything about that.

Paul Shuler · Feb 19, 2016

Good Lord forbid that you should ever have to use deadly force to defend yourself or family. But if you do I am sure one of the first things that is going to happen is they are going to have you pee in cup. Better hope that there are no judgment altering chemicals in your system or I am sure it will come back to bite you legally and in a civil since. Here?s hoping and praying none of us ever find out .

oldtanker · Feb 19, 2016

OK in the first place he's never had a conviction that would bar him from owning a gun or getting a carry permit. And he's also legally growing and distributing pot plus using it. I'm more comfortable with a guy in a very mellow mood because he smoked some pot with a gun than I am with an outraged drunk with a gun.

We may as well face facts. We can no longer afford the "war on drugs". Between local, state and the federal government no one has the exact amount spent trying to win this war but it's north of 51 billion dollars annually not counting the court or prison systems that in some areas are working beyond it's means.. And all that with no chance of winning. If we allowed drugs to be sold legally we could tax them as we do booze, eliminate the criminal aspect of it thereby reducing the number of prisoners to feed and house. The countries producing those drugs could do the same and eliminate the cartels without a fight. The people who are going to use drugs are getting them anyway. Fighting drugs has only cost the tax payers and done little to stop the flow. I know that's a controversial view point and no, I'm not a user or seller. But I am a tax payer. Just like prohibition gave rise to organized crime on a national level so to has the war on drugs given rise to national gangs.

Rick

rrlund · Feb 19, 2016

Worthless doper neighbor was growing it on me. He got caught,hid behind his wife's skirt and got her to plead guilty. She wasn't supposed to be around it being on probation. He got a permit to grow it because he was "depressed" over being laid off for a month. It's growing right in their house under grow lights. I've seen it through their window when I'm in the field right behind their trailer.
Bunch of worthless maggot infested dirtbags. I've seen teenagers run up to their house,then in very little time run back to their car. Just flat out low lifes,that's all they are.

gtractorfan · Feb 19, 2016

Speaking of seat belts, did you see on the news that a helicopter at Pearl Harbor made a hard landing just off the shore in front of spectators? It immediately turned over and sank. One young guy was trapped hanging on his seat belt. Rescuers dove in and tried to free him but couldn't get the belt unlatched. No one had a knife to cut it, the guy was underwater about 7 minutes and died, thanks to his seat belt as I understand.

Mike M · Feb 19, 2016

There was a TV special about pot in Colorado recently and some said the legal stuff was a lot more money than before so there was still plenty of crime to get money to pay for it.

Pair-a-dice farm · Feb 19, 2016

I've never used or sold pot but I am a legal gun owner. It seems to me that everything that becomes illegal opens up a whole can of worms with blackmarket trade, just like prohibition. The war on drugs has only increased organized crime and hasn't helped drug use at all. Drugs from South America and Mexico is said to be much more addictive than the old road ditch MJ. At least if it's grown here in the US it can be watched and revenue can be received from the sale.

ss55 · Feb 19, 2016

So you shot him?

dhermesc · Feb 19, 2016

A house like that would catch fire in my neighborhood.

rrlund · Feb 19, 2016

I've taking the fifth on that one in case his grow lamps get too hot.

rrlund · Feb 19, 2016

That's the trouble here in Michigan. It's not being taxed,and very little regulation. All you need to say to get a card is that you're suffering from paranoia. That you're paranoid about getting caught with it without a card.

As far as organized crime,the card carrying dealers around here are VERY organized. They've gone back underground to some extent,but for a while,they would all wear matching T shirts with a marijuana leaf on them,and show up at every public meeting in the county in large numbers,trying to intimidate anybody who might oppose them. They even ran their own candidate for township supervisor. Our current supervisor has had the job for close to thirty years despite being a nnalert. There are darned few nnalert around here,but I can only remember one time that a nnalert even ran against him. He keeps the wheels from falling off and that's good enough for everybody.
The drug gang ran their hopped up candidate against him in the democratic primary,thinking they'd beat him there and just take over because the nnalert didn't have a candidate. A bunch of us who knew what was going on had to cross over and vote in the democratic primary to stop the drug dealing low lifes.

oldtanker · Feb 19, 2016

The thing is guys that by making it illegal (you should really look up why especially about pot) it made it obscenely profitable. Some estimates run about a [b:3991fde0b6]billion[/b:3991fde0b6] dollars a day profitable. Low ball estimates places it in the HUNDREDS of MILLIONS a day. That kinda money invites violence to protect it as we have all seen. You can bet the dealers are not reporting it as income and paying taxes either. So we pour billions upon billions a year into fighting it and make no income through either sales or income tax. And people wonder why we are broke as a nation and trillions in debt.

Rick

rrlund · Feb 19, 2016

It still violates federal banking laws for dealers,even if legal,to put that money in a bank. The ones here in Michigan found that out. One guy was bragging about banking $10,000 a week from it. Who knows anymore. He's been arrested a few times and that seems to have clipped his wings,or at least sewn up his lips.

Another thing that became apparent real quick,was that these dopers don't have the kind of money that the dealers are charging for this easy,endless supply,so where do they get the money? Use your own imagination. Need a hint? Somebody stole my son's flat screen TV.

JerryS · Feb 19, 2016

I'm with you, Tanker. Have long advocated that the government should just give it free to whoever is stupid enough to want it. Use all the money wasted on the "war on drugs" to treat and rehab those who finally wise up and decide they need to get clean. Those who don't, let 'em fry their brains; they'll always be a drain on society anyway.

If people had to go to a local government office to get their weekly "medicine", drug use would eventually acquire a social stigma, unlike the current glamour that surrounds drug use as being adventurous, dangerous and a way to stick-it-to-the-man. There would still be problems, large problems, as alcohol has shown. But they wouldn't be so costly.

But, it won't happen because too many hogs are eating out of the drug trough--not just dealers, but the entire law enforcement/criminal justice/penal system. Armies of law enforcement agents--local cops, sheriff deputies, state police, DEA, ATF, FBI, etc.--all requiring expensive state-of-the-art toys, are depending on the drug war to keep their operations intact and well-funded.

GlenIdaho · Feb 19, 2016

There no doubt be a legitimate use for medical marijuana and its derivatives to help valid medical conditions. Cocaine and it derivatives were legalized a long time ago for the medical field and have helped man. However, in this case you have a man and his wife abusing the system so that they can make money. It seems to me he was throwing it in your face. The gun is probably to protect his crops and cash. Things are messed up because of people like him, to include politicians who use the system for their own greed. What concern does your friend and those like him have for the kid that uses his pot and then gets in an accident and kills himself or others? I dare say he could care less. He does not think past his own high and the dollars in his pocket. Look at Colorado, they legalized pot and now people from all over the country are going there to buy and sell elsewhere at a sizeable profit. The guys who grow it don't care who buys it as long as they pay for it. IIRC now that pot has been legalized in Washington there has been a marked increase in accidents etc related to being high on pot. It's added to the injuries and deaths cause by DUI's. The cost is being carried by the good law abiding citizens. Do we need to get out and vote? YES an resounding YES! Not for the freebie guys and gals either! Okay, rant over, things do need to changed in our country.

Pair-a-dice farm · Feb 19, 2016

I believe oldtanker is right. Just look at the propaganda that originally made marijuana illegal, it started back in the 30's when prohibition was repealed. Organized crime manipulated the dogooders into believing that MJ would cause mass murders and total insanity, watch the movie "Reefer Madness" . The cash cow from illegal liquor was dying and a new source of money was needed. Only the blackmarket sales of something illegal brings in that kind of money. Drugs filled the spot perfectly.
There are and will always be those that want to abuse substances and when something is made illegal it only make it more appealing to younger people. If they can't get marijuana they will try to get something to take it's place and most of the time it's something worse. That's how meth became popular and now the meth that comes from Mexico is much worse than the kitchen sink variety. Prescription drugs can be much worse than marijuana, just listen to the side effects on their commercials.
Drugs are an expensive drain on a family but the failed war on drugs is terribly expensive drain on our society. Sometimes it;s better to let mother nature run the course, it may sound cruel but in the long run it's usually best.

Bret4207 · Feb 20, 2016

(quoted from post at 15:21:22 02/19/16) Speaking of seat belts, did you see on the news that a helicopter at Pearl Harbor made a hard landing just off the shore in front of spectators? It immediately turned over and sank. One young guy was trapped hanging on his seat belt. Rescuers dove in and tried to free him but couldn't get the belt unlatched. No one had a knife to cut it, the guy was underwater about 7 minutes and died, thanks to his seat belt as I understand.

What is your point? My father was killed when he rolled his truck, not wearing a belt, and broke his neck against the roof. My little sister was killed when she was not wearing a belt and was thrown out a window and had the car land on her in a roll over accident. My wife and son were both wearing belts in their roll overs and both walked away just fine. I investigated countless accidents and have never, ever seen a case where not having a belt on would have saved anyone, but I've seen many cases where not wearing one caused extensive injury or death. You go tell some parents their kid was thrown from a car and is dead a few dozen times and then tell me about how bad seat belts are.

oldtanker · Feb 20, 2016

(quoted from post at 06:44:40 02/20/16)

(quoted from post at 15:21:22 02/19/16) Speaking of seat belts, did you see on the news that a helicopter at Pearl Harbor made a hard landing just off the shore in front of spectators? It immediately turned over and sank. One young guy was trapped hanging on his seat belt. Rescuers dove in and tried to free him but couldn't get the belt unlatched. No one had a knife to cut it, the guy was underwater about 7 minutes and died, thanks to his seat belt as I understand.

Click to expand...

What is your point? My father was killed when he rolled his truck, not wearing a belt, and broke his neck against the roof. My little sister was killed when she was not wearing a belt and was thrown out a window and had the car land on her in a roll over accident. My wife and son were both wearing belts in their roll overs and both walked away just fine. I investigated countless accidents and have never, ever seen a case where not having a belt on would have saved anyone, but I've seen many cases where not wearing one caused extensive injury or death. You go tell some parents their kid was thrown from a car and is dead a few dozen times and then tell me about how bad seat belts are.

I once attended a talk by a LOE who claimed that 50% of the people he'd seen at traffic accidents who had not been wearing a seat belt had died. He wasn't amused when I told him that meant that 50% had lived.

When I took drivers training in the early 70's we were told that over 50K Americans died on the highways each year. Now it down to over 30K. Did crumple zones and seat belts have an effect? Sure. But the biggest single effect that no one addresses when talking about car safety has nothing to do with the car. They are called EMTs. When I started to drive the ambulance crews were extremely limited in what they were allowed to do. Basically stop the bleeding, stabilize a fracture and transport. EMTs were new and only in large metro areas. But today EMTs are allowed to do so much more to include starting IVs. And most often there are just a few minutes away. Plus add in cell phones where a lot of accidents are reported that much sooner.

But I regress, the real reason that cops want people to wear seatbelts (sorry to any LOE types out there) is so they don't have to walk the ditches looking for bodies.

I hate seatbelts but I wear them.

Rick

Blackhole49 · Feb 20, 2016

You don't think the number of cars on the road and miles driven have gone up since the early 70's while the deaths have gone down,
do you? I'm sure medical advances play a factor, but the biggest change is safety equipment and better engineered roads.

David G · Feb 20, 2016

How did seat belts get drug into the conversation?

Blackhole49 · Feb 20, 2016

As a side note, in 1970 we drove 800,000 x 1,000,000 miles. In 2015, 1,137,434 x 1,000,000 miles (a little under four times as many).

4wdtom · Feb 20, 2016

I don't know much about pot laws at state levels, but it is still not legal at the federal level, and mixing a gun with pot may not please the feds. Maybe I just don't know, but I would want to be sure before putting these two together.

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