Damn if i do and Damn if I do not.

Sorry for the topic subject but lately I feel this way. I have been tossing a coin up in the sky and nothing say's if I am right.Been fighting an older sister and have heard nothing form my older brother. My mom came down with old timers and she not turning around for the better. Sister say's that dad can not take care of her but she needs a home just for her. AS any body ever price one of these places out (wow). They want the house, the cars, and all the money in the bank. How do you explain to your dad that his world is now been taken away. Just because they are to much money. Some times you respect that your parents had work hard for there retirement and they to should be able to live the life they enjoy. It is sad to realize that insurance does not pay for the stuff you might need. These past four weeks I have visited these homes and seen how these people live with there pain (it is sad). My dad is in great health for his age I caught him driving around his favorite tractor. You might say it makes me feel good to see an 86 year old man out for a day on his tractor. I am still feeling like that son with wanting to try to help out. I still have that saying Damn if I do and Damn if I do not. Who side do I respect my sisters or my dads. I really believe that my dad knows best ( after all he has been married to my mom for 63 years). I think that my mom is still the world for him. (WOW) Just think So what the hay if I am damn it is no big deal I guess I have been the problem kid for years when i grew up. Just been a busy two months of trying to make things right. Yes I know I should just step aside and let my sister over run my dad but that will hurt me even more.

Your dad's.
Sounds like your dad is still in control of his faculties. If so why not hire an in house nurse to stop in every day or two to check up on them and let them live in their house? Splitting them up would be a sad thing. If your dad can cook and clean and basically take care of things with a little help from you and your sister why not let him do it.
Save the retirement home for later when they cannot look after each other. I would not split them up. If your dad is ready to move into an assisted living situation with your mom than that might be a good option. I would not force it.
Don't take me wrong, but it sounds like your sister is just looking for the easy way out.

Greg

gregCO- We don't really know the whole story. Do all three children live close enough to the parents to provide equal time for care? If one or more can't give their equal time for caring for their parents, could they pay someone to cover their time? I know what I say sounds nit-picking but, when it gets down to something like this, I have seen families blown completely apart.

You need to check into this further. I do not believe they can take the property and money if your Dad will still be livibg there. You need to talk with a Medicare/Medicaid specialist. I am no expert but I think someone has given you the wrong info. Get Mom qualified for Medicare and go from there.

If she has Alzheimer's, there will be a point when it will be to much for your dad. Find an attorney that specializes in this and likely your dad's assets can be split so that when you're mother's half is gone the state takes over payments. Ask around find out all you can to see what help may be available. And, you're right, the cost for care is outrageous.

I lost my first wife in 08. Prior to that, It was obvious that she needed 24 hr care, and I was working 50-60 hours a week. After talking to a attorney who dealt with Senior and estate issues, We separated finances. Took her name off the house, cars etc. She had to be an active participant! A couple months later we moved her into an adult foster home. She was on state assistance (I didn't make enough to pay for it, and this way I didn't become homeless). My advise is, See an attorney that specializes in senior law. It cost me a little, but much less than if I had done nothing.

Tim in OR

Your father needs good legal advise about how to handle the rules dealing with the cost of care issues. He/you need to protect HIS place to live and the income to provide for himself. There are very few people with the personal assets to pay for long term nursing home care.

My Father is in assisted living and it costs around $3000K a month. Full nursing home care is about double that with everything.

Just remember, you have just as much say so as your sister does. Not an easy task I know. A lot of good info posted below worth looking into.

Your parents are blessed to have a son that cares for them as you do. Common for issues like this to expose cracks in family relationships. It can and maybe will become ugly between you and your sister. Keep in mind she's motivated by her love for them and her belief in what's best, also. Unless you have reasons to believe she's motivated by something else (old hurt feelings or trying to get at their finances in an in appropriate way, etc.). Regardless, get your parents some professional legal help and financial advice. Don't take it from anyone that stands to gain by one course of action over another. Do it quickly while your mom may still have the ability to constructively take part in decisions like power of attorney, creation or changes to a will, living will, executor of estate, etc. Get yourself some help, too. This isn't a war you should fight alone and you're already sounding pretty defeated in the first battle. you have my prayers friend.

You need to talk to an attorney in your state because these laws vary state to state.

Good luck.

Rick

If your sister has actually been the one that has been assisting them for the last 2-10 yrs, then support her and what she wants to do.

There is a pretty slim chance your dad is gonna be happy about any decision that involves change from normal. At 86yrs old it is time for him to face the reality that he needs a exit plan. Most guys that age have come and gone as they please and aren't used to answering to any wife or offspring. It takes a few yrs to recondition there thinking.

If your dad actually handles all the laundry, cleaning and cooking now, there is some hope he can go it alone with your mom for a while. If he still thinks that stuff is her job? Get your mom out now.

Brent,
You sound very unhappy with the situation, but you don't seem to have any alternative solutions to offer yet. If "old timers" is Alzheimer's disease, your mother will require constant (24 hour) care just to keep her from running away or injuring herself. As you have found, nursing home care is very expensive $5,000 to $10,000 or more per month. Some government assistance is available, but the taxpayers are not made of money either. Most states require personal assets to be used first before the state can step in and take over those huge costs. If you are in a position to pay for your parents care, you can skip the government requirements and just pay all the bills yourself. Most families are not in that position.

Fighting with your sister will only make things worse for your parents. Try to work together with your sister and your brother to share responsibility for caring for your parents. How much can you or your sister handle? It sounds like neither your dad or your sister can continue to care for your mother. Can your sister continue looking after your dad while you move your mom to your house so you can take care of her there? Is your spouse OK with that?

After you do get a solution worked out, don't be too surprised if some time later your non-involved brother wakes up and demands to know why things are changing and why you made the decisions you did. It seems every Johnny-come-lately will do that, it's just part of the process.

Good luck, caring for aging parents isn't easy, fun or cheap.

You might see if you can find someone to come in and help out or even live there ? What you pay for a month at a rest home the average workers there only make in a year !

Went through a similar situation 13 years ago with my dad. Surviving spouse could keep one house to live in. Could only have a set amount of cash at the beginning of each month. A living spouse could keep some portion of savings as I recall. Our nursing home had a lady to help with this. Insurance paid for first month which is all he lived for in the nursing home. I had budgeted $5,500 per month for care until government money could kick in.

In Iowa your allowed to keep the house, car, and x amount of money, if your spouse has to go on title 19. But you need to see an attorney.

My mother died of that disease. Really a terrible disease. Please go find a good lawyer that handles these things. Youll be glad you did. Your dad and mom will be better served if you find a good lawyer. If your dad doesn't have a will and he is in sound mind you need to get one quickly or you will really have a big mess as the old saying is THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL and I suspect if you have any in-laws there probably one of your problems along with your brother and sister. State to state is different. If you and your brother, sister try to take some of there assests you may be setting your self up as some state has a time period for that I think 3-7 years so please get a good lawyer that handles these things. Living trusts may be the way to go. Just my 3 cents worth.

I have to go along with what folks are saying, get an attorney, find out what the laws, ect are in your state. I know this is difficult, went through this almost 20 years ago. The state were my parents lived their lives did protect assets for my father as long as he could stay home, (yes Mom had Alzheimer's) He was able to stay at home four more years. It was hard on him when he would go see Mom (He did every day), She didn't understand most of the time why she had to be in this place and Dad could go home when he wanted. But I still believe it was best for Dad to be home.
My heart goes out to you, I know and understand you have a rough road ahead.

OK, now that you have heard all of the advice from all of those that are not there and do not know the whole situation, I will add my little bit - not necessarily advice.
I went through something similar in my family. Mom was diagnosed with glioblastoma. This is a "rare" brain cancer that is many times worse than Alzheimer's. It wraps itself around and through the brainstem and destroys the victim's mind.
My father was in a similar age bracket - he was just 80. Surprising to the entire family, Dad stepped up and took care of Mom for most of her remaining time. There was a brief stay in a nursing home. This was NOT a good thing!!! Even though this nursing home had great credentials, state certifications, and was supposed to be one of the better ones, shortcomings appeared rapidly.
On one visit, I observed that there were several alarms going off at the nurse's station. They were being ignored while the staff was hanging around laughing and joking. That sent up a red flag in my mind. On that same visit, another situation arose. Mom had to go to the bathroom. She was not allowed to go alone. She buzzed for a nurse. There was no response. After half an hour had passed with no response, Dad went to the nurse's station and demanded attention. Within the week, Mom was back home. From that point, Dad got in-home nursing assistance for the things that he needed help with. At the end, Mom spent the last couple of weeks in hospice care.
From all of this, I learned a few things. Nursing homes are only good as a last resort - when there is no other alternative. Family care with assistance is the best choice for loved ones. Keep in mind who cleaned up our crappy diapers, fed us, and cared for us when we were helpless and kept us safe. We owe them better than warehousing them in a nursing home.

There are no sides. It can be a long hard journey. Our family's has been going on for 8 years now. A handicapped apartment with in home house care could be a first step. That was $1,125 a month. Assisted living and nursing home about $3000 a month. Shop around they are not all equal. They took care of you for years, now it's your turn. Don't fight with your sister, help her. Medicare will pay for hospice in a nursing home when the end comes.

What is really sad is a "Non American" who has lived on welfare even for a short time will get as good or better care that your Mother will for "Nothing"...but because your parents worked hard all their lives and actually contributed to the system and the people around them, they will loose all that they have "earned" for the same result...

My mother died of it also. Both her and Dad should have been in a nursing home. Pop absolutely refused to go and "took care" of mom as well as he could until she died. If any of us tried to help out, they both got mad at us. So yup, damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you end up in nursing home care, you will lose everything you ever worked for. Local extended care alzheimers unit, $10,000 per month. If you and your sister can figure out how to care for her without going to such a facility it might leave your father something to life on. You pay in for Medicare your whole life, plus a regular hospitalization plan and as soon as you need it, they don't pay $&!T. Gotta keep those lifetime welfare pukes healthy, don't you know!


Oh yeah. Might as well make your peace with the fact that when all of this is over, most of your family is going to hate you for the rest of your life, no matter what route you choose. I also advise you to stay away from hospice. When they come in, they take over and tell you what you will do and what you won't do. They are not what you may think they are. You will end up doing 90% of the care anyway, and it will be under their direction and watchful eye.

If you or your sister can not stay and help your parents, then consider hiring someone who can. A relative would be good but someone who could stop by for a coupla hours a day.

The median price for a nursing home today is about $15k per year. In '06 it was half of that.
Mom died in 91 and we spent the bulk of dad's savings on the nursing home while applying for medicaid. Sold the cars, cashed in the life insurance and then dad passed in 05 before collecting a dime from Medicaid.
End of life scenarios suck & we never figured a way to make it better.
We have a relative we visit every week in a nursing home now that's 40 miles away ... and they haven't gotten any better.
It's why I still smoke a pack a day.

Just went through this 1 1/2 yrs ago with my folks. Mom full blown alzheimer, dad just really old him 94 her 91. I took care of them in their home but I work nights and it became obvious they were going to get hurt or killed in their home. We looked at in home care and it is DEFINITELY NOT like the TV commercial. Tried one 2 hr visit and that was enough. A very respected home care company sent out a VERY inappropriate caregiver. Also Tried to work out a deal with some local folks for cash-ladies that do that. The logistics of being sure that someone always shows up was too much, after all we all have car/family/ illness issues that can affect "employment". Plus my accountant warned me of doling out that quantity of money, plus liability of their injury or theft etc. So, they went together, Dad being a real trooper about it, to a beautiful Brand New Asstd Living facilty @ $6,700/mo for two. My dad still had enough wits to know that he needed to go for my mom's sake. My dad is now failing and has gone on hospice and mom on hospice too. It took me a year but I got dad some VA money that pays a portion now. Which leads me to the Flame starter: Who should pay? I agree its sad that one works their whole life and in the end must pay for care. But, and I repeat But, there is also the right thing to do and pay your own bills if you can. My dad worked hard and saved money FOR THEIR CARE, not for me and my siblings. And It was/is his wish to pay his own way. I could have played the "shell game" with his money, and Granted, the money will be mostly gone and if his land has to be sold I hope a family member can step up, I can't right now, but I know they get top notch care now. There is also something to be said for being able to go where you WANT instead of the next available medicare bed in a nursing home because you're "broke". They say 80% of people will outlive their money and It appears my dad may not do that but its been a real nail biter. Email open if you'd like to talk off line

Don't do anything until you talk to a lawyer who specializes in elder law. My wife has been through this with patients several times. We went through it when Dad had a stroke. The only thing my mother had to do was pay cash for the nursing home until she had spent down to a certain level,then Medicaid took over.
There are plenty of rumors,but listen to a qualified lawyer. Like I said,one that specializes in "ELDER LAW".

I would side with my parents, 100%, if they want to stay in the house or whatever that's what I would help make happen. Your sister has no right whatsoever to interfere in your Dads business unless she has some sort of signed and legal medical power of attorney or over him and your Mother or some other legal document that your parents agreed to and made of their own free will. My sister tried it with my Parents years ago because she wanted their house, my poor old Mama was balling her head off because she thought she was going to have to leave her home. My POS sister had a lawyer draw up papers and she coerced them into signing and even had the gall to tell the lawyer not to notify myself or my brother, the lawyer included those instructions in the paperwork so when I read that it came to a head, we got the document cancelled and my parents both lived out there final years under their own roof, both of them died in their house years later. In the end it was worthwhile because my Wife slapped the taste out of my sisters mouth and rolled her through the kitchen and she took off like a scalded dog, we have not seen that cur in over 10 years.

my wife took care of my failing mother for two years with absolutely no help from my three siblings. first thing you should do like many have said is take your dad to his attorney and the attorney will ask him a series of questions to see if he is of 'sound mind' and can make all the decisions for him and your mother. that will take precedence over your sisters wishes. you really need to get this done. it was a hardship for my wife to take care of mom. she pretty well quit her part time job to do it and never asked mom to reimburse for lost wages. my mother was at times very demanding and hard to get along with but that is common with Alzheimer patients. I know a fellow at work that has three brothers and they have someone come in during the day while they are at work and share other times. I hope you can keep them home where they will be happier. remember your mom changed your diapers now it's your turn.

Incidentally ... these issues occur in almost all families and it is usually bad. The name they give it is "family dynamics".

Just went through a mini version of this. My sister who has formal training in home health care and used to work for an agency has been living with my mom and dad and taking care of them in return for the room and board and some cash. Dad passed away on Valentines Day 2015 of complications related to dementia, so now just mom and sister. Another sister and a brother wanted to see mom go to a home of some sort instead of sister one taking care of her. Once the costs of doing that were explained to them they backed off. Keeps mom in her house and a roof over a sister's head.

As others have said, you aren't alone in this, talk to an attorney, and/or the Medicare/Medicaid folks. Consider some home health care until your dad can't take care of mom. My inlaws had a nurse come in once a week to monitor the FIL and make sure his diet, etc. were still OK. Worth the cost to the MIL. He passed away just before Christmas 2015. (tough to lose two dads in one year).

I think $15K is pretty light. My grandmother died in a home in 03, and her bill was nearly $5K per month. She spent 5 years in assisted living,
then the nursing unit, it cost her estate $300K. Getting old isn't easy, and it ain't cheap.