Thoughts on bad cruisej

What is you guys thoughts. A mother can park a perfectly good car with the doors locked and a kid in the back seat. Run in the store maybe for 5 minutes. If the laws finds the kid she is fined for child abuse. But a cruise line captain can load 6000 folks and sail in to a hurricane and " O it was just bad weather" . If that wasn,t abuse I would like to know what it was. He deliberately put the lives of 6000 folks in danger.

What's your point, Both are just STUPID? Woman should have been arrested. Many kids die in locked cars, especially in the summer. Can't arrest a captain for being stupid in international waters. USA can't do very little about a cruse ship not flying a US flag in international waters. That's why I only cruse on Norwegian. They fly a US flag, all people working on ship pay US taxes, follow US standards. I'll never consider Carnival, especially after that stupid move.

(quoted from post at 15:03:16 02/13/16) What's your point, Both are just STUPID? Woman should have been arrested. Many kids die in locked cars, especially in the summer. Can't arrest a captain for being stupid in international waters. USA can't do very little about a cruse ship not flying a US flag in international waters. That's why I only cruse on Norwegian. They fly a US flag, all people working on ship pay US taxes, follow US standards. I'll never consider Carnival, especially after that stupid move.

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Not sure, but I believe it was Royal Caribbean, not Carnival.

But the captain could loose his job...and the country of the flag on the ship could press charges. The captain of the cruise ship that ran aground a few years ago will be in jail for quite a while.

Ben

While in the Navy the ship I was on went through a couple of storms like that one. Very uncomfortable, but the ships are designed to handle it.

Plus he didn't go through the storm, it was well to the north. They ran into wind from the north blowing against the Gulf Stream coming up from the south which causes really nasty waves.

So everyone of these 6000 passengers with all their smart phones had no idea this ship was headed threw a storm BEFORE they got on the boat and choose to take the cruise.

Or could it be that the captain and passengers alike made a conscious decision based on the latest weather data and when they got out there found out the storm was worse than predicted.

I think you are right, My stupid mistake. Does Royal Caribbean fly a US flag?

That is one reason you will NEVER catch me in a tin can on the ocean with a bunch of other sardines!!!!! I dislike public forms of transportation because of things like this. You have zero control of where the ship/train/airplane go or do. I am just not comfortable in those type of situations.

I have not taken any form of travel like those I listed since 9/11. I do not see myself doing so either.

I would lay any odds that the captain had no say he works for the cruise line and was told to sail by corporate.

Been on several Royal Caribbean cruses and the people make a concentrated effort to head for smooth water. I would not hesitate to take another 1 as a matter of fact that reminded me, I want to book a cruse thru the Panama Canal next year-- need to get them called.

A little thing called "Captain's Authority"...... not saying that it automatically equivocates to good judgement.

I don't "get it" with regards to going on cruises. My sister and BIL have gone on several but it's not for me. I don't see the point. Just not my idea of fun.

I did a bad thing yesterday. Got a phone call, was guy "giving away either a free cruise or free plane tickets to any place in the lower 48. All I and wife had to do was attend a meeting,,,,,, I asked the guy if this was the choke and puke, or the storm and sink cruise? Cannot belive the phone connection was lost before he could answer. joe

Never been on a cruse... I'm afraid I would quickly be bored.

Not into gambling, don't drink, don't dance, mainstream "entertainment" typically doesn't interest me, overeating is my weakness, not a good place for me!

So, being I don't get seasick, busting through a little storm in a big boat might be fun! Think "Lieutenant Dan" up in the crows neat! LOL

I agree that it gets very hot in a car that's has the windows rolled up. But how many times when we were kids, did we have to wait in the car? Yes usually not in a parking lot but near some shade and the windows down. Parents weren't worried that some stranger would hurt us. Of course at one time bad guys were locked up and people walked free.

A mother would NOT get fined if she parked that car in international waters.

Royal Caribbean fly's a Bahamas flag. So I guess you could say they are under British rule in a round about way.

I think Pride of American is the only cruise ship flying a U.S. flag. It is owned by Norwegian Cruise Line and sails on the west coast and Hawaii.
But do not read to much into the American flag. Norwegian Cruise Line parent company is from Hong Kong.

The original Pride of America was being built in costal Mississippi funded threw a government pork project.
The original company went bankrupt before the ship was complete. Norwegian bought the ship and had it towed to Germany to finish construction. Under some government backscratching Norwegian was able to get the ship flagged with a U.S. flag. Under U.S. rules they use American workers.

The ONLY reason Norwegian went threw this trouble is port calls. U.S. rules state that any foreign flag ship can not visit 2 U.S. ports in a row. They must dock at a foreign port between these 2 U.S. ports. Due to this fact the Pride of America has a heads up on the competition for the area it serves. It is allowed to sail from the west coast to Hawaii; make several stops at different ports in Hawaii; and then go back to the west coast. No foreign flag ship has a chance of competing with them under U.S. law.

No desire to be on that tin can either. And would be nothing there to interest me either.

Norwegian has 3 Caribbean cruises too. I'll not sail on any other cruise ship. They pay US taxes. Do the others?

Well George, unless they'd allow me to tinker around in their shop, I wouldn't go either. gm

I have been on "1" Caribbean cruise,, and that will be the first and last...I didn't care for it at all,, I would rather be driving out through the Dakotas being able to stop and look when I wanted to..I found myself setting on the "Tail Gate" waiting to get to the other end of the field...

Norwegian has 17 ships. Everyone of them flys a Bahamas flag except for the "Pride of America" that flys a U.S. flag and only for the reasons stated above. If not for strict U.S. port of call laws the Pride of American would also have a Bahamas flag on it. In fact it took some serious backscratching to get a U.S. flag on the Pride of American in the first place.

Norwegian is not the American company flying U.S. flags on their ships to support America and pay U.S. taxes as you make them out to be. It is all about a U.S. flag on this one ship fits their business profile for this one ship based on the ports it visits.
But believe as you want.
Norwegian Cruise Line

With todays weather monitoring capabilities and modern communications, there is no excose for putting a multi million dollar ship and all those lives in danger like that.
Heads should roll through out that organization stsrting woth the CEO and the captian as well as anyone else who decided to go for it.

The captain always has the final word. He knows how much it costs to cancel a cruise, but he has the authority to do so.

What would the passengers have said if the ship didn't leave the port because of the storm?

Also, if the ship went done, the death toll would be more then the Titanic.

At least they weren't on the Titanic or the Lusitania.

I agree with TomH; the ships are designed for it. It is a little unrealistic to go on a ship and always expect calm seas and perfect weather. These storms are huge. How many extra days would it be to sail around? How much added expense? Was there enough fuel? Would they have run low on food and water? Passenger ships are crazily wasteful. They cannot limit food consumption and water use as on a USN ship. Passengers would have been upset for losing connections, missing reservations, or over staying vacations not to mention possible rationing. Airplanes avoid storms for safety and less for comfort but there are limits to what a plane can fly around before causing greater problems. I am certain that was the issue here.

It is a long, trying process to become a captain of a vessel like this. These guys are not idiots. I am certain if we knew the thought process behind the captain's decision it would have made perfect sense.

There is no way under the Sun that the Captain ''deliberately put the lives of 6000 folks in danger'' that is a patently ridiculous statement. The Captain carries a US coast Guard License with endorsements from whichever port of convenience the ship is registered under, he is sworn to put the welfare of his passengers and crew first and is subject to the severest penalties and criminal accountability that the law allows if he falters in that duty, the Captain has full legally protected autonomy to refuse to set sail regardless of what the company or anyone else wants until he is duly relieved of duty. There are countless examples of weather that was not supposed to be which have resulted in countless catastrophes which were no fault of the captain or crew or even the weather forecasters. The sea is the most powerful force on earth and nature knows no bounds nor follows any schedule.

You can bet that all of the decisions were not made by the captain. Company bean counters and idiots were involved too. NOAH and the weather guys were forecasting it would turn into a big storm. They hit 30 foot waves and 120mph wind gusts. Sail out of the port on the Jersey side of NY harbor. Had 4,500 passengers and 1,600 crew. Now the idiot of a captain that sailed a wooden ship into hurricane Sandy to "ride it out"!!!! They were in port way before and that port didn't get too badly hit. Most likely would have gotten a little damage. On modern marvels or how do they do it program they showed how they built that huge ship. It is all module sections that just lock together. Every state room is plug and play. Just lift it up with a crane and hook her up like a Mobil Home in the RV park. That little toy boat is 1,141 feet long and was several Billion dollars in cost. Yes the Titanic would have just been a little side note to this thing going down.

Read a couple of the other later posts. I feel sorry for the captain cause he is going to get his butt handed to him. As others have said about waiting in port and crazy passengers etc. No loss of life but still he will be roasted. SAD sad. You can bet that the company higher ups will not get nailed!

(quoted from post at 08:24:22 02/13/16) Never been on a cruse... I'm afraid I would quickly be bored.

Not into gambling, don't drink, don't dance, mainstream "entertainment" typically doesn't interest me, overeating is my weakness, not a good place for me!

So, being I don't get seasick, busting through a little storm in a big boat might be fun! Think "Lieutenant Dan" up in the crows neat! LOL

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I went on a cruise of the eastern Mediterranean. I think that we had six ports of call. Every morning we were off the ship and on the road by 9:00, and going all day by bus and on foot, touring historical sites. Those who couldn't keep up a pretty good pace would see the main parts that were close to the bus stop, while the rest of us walked some miles. We would be back at the ship usually around 6:00, then dinner at 7:00. No time for gambling, drinking, dancing, or mainstream entertainment. In bed by ten in order to get rested up for the next day while the ship steamed many miles at night. We saw a lot of Roman and Greek historical sites.

You mean the Costa Concordia? The captain was a hanging it out A hole. He was showing off with a ship and then hit a rock out crop that gutted the ship. Then he RAN away!!

John,
When I was on the Pride of America, the employees told me they pay US taxes and support my Social Security and I thanked them. Are they wrong? Not sure about the other Norwegian ships. If they don't fly a US flag, pay US taxes, I won't get on one. Are there any other US flags flying? geo

We"ve been on two cruises- both Royal Carribean, last year to the Carribean, the summer before to Alaska. Thoroughly enjoyed everything about it, other than the "trinket shops" at especially the Carribean ports. Mobility issues restricted us from more adventurous stops. On the Alaska cruise the Captain had a meeting with passengers for a Q&A- one asked how much does it cost to run this ship? Response- about a quarter million dollars per day. That ship had over 800 passengers, double that in crew.

Yes but during WW II the fleet got into a hurricane and lost TWO distroyers. That is some bad a>>>> weather to loose some thing that is all buttoned up and is military. OFFffda.

Gary Mitchell,
I did a 7 day curse to 5 different ports in Hawaii, very beautiful. A curse is the only way to really see that much of Hawaii. A cruse ship is better than a motor home. Someone does the driving, cleans your room, fixes great meals, meet nice people, good entrainment nightly. Just wish I had more time to enjoy the different islands. We were only off the ship a total of 49 hours, 5 ports, in 7 days. Rest of the time ship was sailing. If I were to go to Hawaii again I would take the 14 day cruse out of San Diego. The long flight there and back killed my back. A cruse ship is like a floating city. I had a good time.

This particular storm was widely known about and forecast well in advance. They took a chance. Simple as that.

You take a chance anytime you go to sea, thats my point, there is a storm somewhere all the time, ships go around storms or outrun them every day around the world, the same way as airplanes do every single day, but, sometimes there is rough going. I have made my living on the water for 40 years and the weather is not always as you would want it or as predicted. If you want 100% safety you have to stay tucked in bed at home.

Sailing in to hurricanes to ride them out is not unheard of. I was in South Carolina for Hugo. Quite a few shrimpers took their boats out in to the storm. The Navy was largely gone by the time the storm came.

I know exactly what you mean. I went through a Class 4 Hurricane onboard a destroyer. We had come out of the English Channel after a visit to Portsmouth, and were taking a Northern route home when we got a call telling is to turn around and take the Southern route due to avoid a storm. So we did......

We got about 24 hours out of the Channel, and caught another storm that was following the first. In the middle of it, we were taking 45 degree rolls, and who knows what the fwd to aft pitch was. I do know it was enough that if you didn't slide your feet the deck would drop out from under your foot if you took an actual step. They had us steaming a flank bell to keep the ship in motion and lined up to catch the waves head on as opposed as abeam.

It was one heck of a wild ride. I know guys on the bridge said we were taking waves high enough that they were almost in the forward stack.

When we got up the next morning, very little outside the ship that wasn't attached was anywhere to be found. The majority of the treads on the ladders were missing, fire hoses were hanging over the side, or strung out along the decks. The J-bar davit for the A-com ladder, which weighed about 600 lbs, was found laying on the fantail....it was typically stored midship. No clue how it got picked up and put where it did.

All in all it was an experience I will never forget, and those folks on the cruise ship simply don't know how good they had it. They'd probably all had coronaries if they had gone through a storm worse than they did on a ship half, or less in size.

The only issue I can see that would make things bad on them was the height of the ship above the water line. As anyone who has been to sea knows, the higher up you are, the more movement/distance your going to move for any given degree of pitch or roll of the ship.

That said, I was on a carrier, the USS America during what I was later told was the storm/s that was the basis of the movie "The Perfect Storm". It was the first time in my two years aboard I ever felt that ship really move. It was bad enough we had the picnic tables on the mess decks were sliding around. What was really funny was the one idiot in the berthing compartment who's rack wasn't secured like it should have been. I told him as I walked by he needed to lash it down, but got a smart rely in return.........About an hour later, as I lay in my rack, I heard a crash and a curse......... I walked over, looked down at him, laughed, and said something akin to, "told you dumb a--", and continued to stand there and laugh. He never said a word.....LOL

Ultimately, ships are designed to handle weather like this. Was the Captain negligent, I doubt it, as his career would have been on the line if he was. Was he unlucky, YES, I believe he was. Anyone who has spent any time at sea knows she is a fickle creature. I've seen it go from calm to storm in a few minutes, and vice-a-versa, in amount of same time. In other words, it can happen. As we all know, if it can happen, it eventually will.........

The real issue here was the people, dumbed down and wussified as most now days are, got scared and started whining, From there, the media jumped on it, as they always do when they smell blood in the water, and the whole thing has gotten blown WAY OUT OR PROPORTION......

That's modern civilization for you. Personally I'd have found the whole incident sort of stimulating, and possibly even fun. Then again, I've already been there once....

George;
The Pride of America is the ONLY cruise ship that I know of that flys an American flag.
By U.S. law the ship owners have to hire Americans that pay US taxes and support your social security.
So yes they were correct and if you will only take a cruise on a US flag ship you will have to go on the Pride of America.

The point I was making is do not feel that Norwegian Cruise Line is flying this American flag or hiring American workers that pay US takes and soc sec by free choice.
Norwegian is dong the above because US law forces them to. If they want to sail from one US port to another US port the ship must fly and American Flag and hire American workers by US federal law.