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Mike M

Well-known Member
I sure feel like the doctors and insurance companies are going out of their way to make your experiences as terrible as they can just so everyone gets mad and will accept a single payer system more openly.
Wife was fit to be tied after trying to get our son in to see the doctor and then going to the urgent care center because the doctor told her it would be 2 weeks, and then going to the drug store only to find out they prescribed something extremely high priced and not in stock. Worst part is I bet what they give him does not even fix him just like back in November when he went in and still has this junk.
 
I know what your saying, due to a misunderstanding between me and my insurance carrier, after the 7th o 8th phone call I found out me and my daughters insurance was terminated. And I dont think we can get it now till open enrollment next time around. Oh well probably cheaper to pay the fine then the insurance and 13000 co pay anyway. jstpa
 
2 weeks to see your doc, i just called mine and was told the earliest was april 5,...my question was what's wrong with you that you could wait 2 months to get in,...around here the standard reply is "go to the emergency room",..
 
A man in our mens Bile study has a 20 year old daughter with breast cancer, very serious, life threatening procedures to try to control it.

He has shared the frustration of so many specialists, none of which can communicate with each other. The results are delayed treatments, repeat diagnostics, unnecessary surgeries, billing nightmares, the list goes on!

I can't imagine having the patience to deal with something like that!
 
If you think single payer is going to help with waiting periods you haven't been paying attention to what waiting periods are like in Canada and England.
 
But there is good news: external_linkcare will take care of all these problems. (And if you die while holding your breath waiting for that to happen, well, you won't need health care anyway.)
 
The governments track record with health care is called the Veterans Administration. The disastrous train wreck that the VA is is what the unaffordable noncare act is becoming or already is. Doesn't matter, nnalert or nnalert, the government needs to stay out of our health care.
 
I hear a lot of you gentlemen having trouble getting into doctor. Take it I have been going to my doctor for years but I can call his office and usually get in same day and if I call in to late in the day they make appointment for next day. My doctor is in a clinic with 6 doctors and if I need a doctor now or mine is out of town I can use one that is covering for him.
 
I don't know where you're located, but the care I get from the VA Eastern Nebraska/Western Iowa system with an out-patient clinic in Lincoln, NE and an in-patient facility in Omaha equals any private health care facility I've used.

I get all of my medications through the VA, both service connected and non-service connected. Refills are always prompt and for non-service connected meds there's an $8 copay for a two month supply. Can't beat that.
 
Not to mention the cost. Since he started fundamentally changing our country, my insurance contributions have gone from $180 every two weeks to $405. My yearly deductible has gone from $1,500 with no charge for blood work, to $5,000 with blood work being applied to the deductible. These changes are from 2011 to 2015
I have to say though, he didn't lie - he did everything he said he would
 
There's a huge difference between health CARE and health INSURANCE. The ACA was promoted as a path to the former and would "fix" all our problems. Instead we are now REQUIRED to buy a product from a PRIVATE corporation. I still say it violates the commerce clause and that the SCOTUS got it wrong!

Funny how the ACA is supposed to help poor people get insurance, yet the low and medium tier plans on the marketplace have outrageously high deductables, typically far beyond the savings of the group they're supposedly trying to help.
 
Yup, elections and the choices we make do have consequences. That 47% will soon be over 50% and if you think this deal is rotten, we ain't seen nuttin' yet.
 
The result of the ACA amounts to no insurance anyways. A friend of mine that makes about $12,000 annually went through the clearing house for subsidized insurance to avoid having to pay a fine. He was offered a policy for $240/month with an $8000 deductible. That is about what I would call paying a premium for no insurance at all. Better to pay the fine and pay for your own treatments when necessary.
And, they call this an improvement??? Affordable??? 25% of your average monthly income, the other 75% deductible. That means that he would have to spend his ENTIRE ANNUAL INCOME on health care. No food, no utilities, no basic living expenses.
This whole mess needs to be repealed. We were better off before.
 
The government needs to be in health care as in preventing monopolies from happening. IF they were doing what they were supposed to be doing we wouldn't be in this mess....
 
The ACA was merely cost shifting. Make those who can pay, pay more to cover those who cant. It didn't "fix" anything. You cant say you gave people health insurance when you make them buy it and then fine them if they don't.
 
(quoted from post at 08:02:38 02/10/16) I don't know where you're located, but the care I get from the VA Eastern Nebraska/Western Iowa system with an out-patient clinic in Lincoln, NE and an in-patient facility in Omaha equals any private health care facility I've used.

I get all of my medications through the VA, both service connected and non-service connected. Refills are always prompt and for non-service connected meds there's an $8 copay for a two month supply. Can't beat that.
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Goose, thing of it is for a lot of people is that their VA is providing substandard care because of patient load and budget. I went from the Fargo VA where the orthopedist had me jumping through hoops over my service connected knee problems. He told me that I needed a new one for 11 years yet refused to do it. First I was told I was too young. Then it was I was too heavy at under 300 pounds. I switched to another VA in late Sept last year and had a knee replacement on 2 Apr this year. Yet the doctors at the VA I now go too filed a complaint against the management at that VA facility claiming that they were allowed to spend the time with each patient as needed.

Rick
 
I can get into see my DR. just about any time because he is not that busy. Tells me something.

Went to him the other day with foot problems,no satisfaction,so I made an appointment to see Foot. DR. and had to wait a few days. He asked if my regular Dr. had referred me and I said no. He couldnt believe that.

So I quess that it is time to change DRS.
 
Exactly. For some reason some seem to think that everyone has a right to health care, which is nonsense. Now, everyone is paying more for less. Healthcare costs have skyrocketed, prescription costs have gone up, and those who really do not want or cannot really afford health insurance have to either pay for what amounts to no coverage at all, such as my son who pays for a policy with a $5000 deductible just to avoid paying the ridiculous fine. My take is, it was fine as it was, but the mistake was providing health care to people who could not afford it.......if you cannot afford, you should do without. No one was born with the right for free care - there are no free rides - someone pays. And with ACA, it is usually NOT the person that receive the benefit from it. With any luck, the ACA will be repealed in the coming year as I cannot see it gone quick enough, but I fear we have not had enough misery yet, and we will re-elect the same crew just different faces. End of rant.
 
Some below have hit the nail on the head- all the chest-thumping by the guvment is about the number of folks who now have health insurance who didn't before- but they really don't have anything at all. They may have "affordable" premiums, but their deductible is at such a high level that they will never get any benefit out of their new-found "insurance". And the rest of us are paying much higher premiums to subsidize them, and our deductibles have also doubled. So its a lose-lose situation for everybody.
 
(quoted from post at 09:46:48 02/10/16) Some below have hit the nail on the head- all the chest-thumping by the guvment is about the number of folks who now have health insurance who didn't before- but they really don't have anything at all. They may have "affordable" premiums, but their deductible is at such a high level that they will never get any benefit out of their new-found "insurance". And the rest of us are paying much higher premiums to subsidize them, and our deductibles have also doubled. So its a lose-lose situation for everybody.
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Well they started by claiming that 50 some million had no coverage. When people started looking at the actual numbers it wound up at 34 million. Well we still have 34 million without coverage. These are the folks that had coverage before but now can no longer afford it.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 09:41:26 02/10/16) Exactly. For some reason some seem to think that everyone has a right to health care, which is nonsense. Now, everyone is paying more for less. Healthcare costs have skyrocketed, prescription costs have gone up, and those who really do not want or cannot really afford health insurance have to either pay for what amounts to no coverage at all, such as my son who pays for a policy with a $5000 deductible just to avoid paying the ridiculous fine. My take is, it was fine as it was, but the mistake was providing health care to people who could not afford it.......if you cannot afford, you should do without. No one was born with the right for free care - there are no free rides - someone pays. And with ACA, it is usually NOT the person that receive the benefit from it. With any luck, the ACA will be repealed in the coming year as I cannot see it gone quick enough, but I fear we have not had enough misery yet, and we will re-elect the same crew just different faces. End of rant.
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Unfortunately about the only way out is single payer or socialized medicine .....like Canada. Looking back, it would have been much cheaper for everyone for the government to just pick up the tab for those that weren't insurable.....now we are in a big mess!
 
Its LOT better in the US. The waits are so long in the UK that over 20% go outside the system and pay out of their pocket instead of getting the "free" service. Couple that with the fact treatment will be denied if you reach a certain age.....
 
Everyone does have a right to healthcare - they just don't have the right to force someone else to pay for their healthcare. You have the right to own a firearm, you don't have the right to make people pay for your firearm.
 

All doctor's offices schedule out quite a ways but they also retain a few openings for emergencies. If you cannot get in quickly but really think there is something that needs to be treated quickly then it is up to the patient to convince the scheduler to give up an opening. Alternatively if the doctor has other doctors in the practice you can see one of them. One way or the other you can be seen by someone when you need to.

As to the expensive medicine you should look up your insurance company's formulary on the net (they should all be out there) and take it with you to the doctor so that you can be sure the prescription is on their list. If you do not know the formulary or have a copy with you then you take your chances.
 
The way I look at it, yes everyone does have a right to have healthcare. If our congress has exceptional healthcare, why am I not entitled to have decent affordable healthcare. Why are they more deserving as a human being to be taken care of than the citizens they are working for? Its not a "well it comes with the job" mentality. How can it come with the job when they write it in so they can have it? I cant do that. Im not a Sanders supporter either, but I do believe something has to be done with our health care system. It cant be "if you cant afford it go without" I do understand where you are coming from, but that is fine until it happens to you.
 
Kind of like unemployment is at 5% lol. When you control the numbers you can make them say what you want them to say.
 
Good point, and perhaps I worded it incorrectly. Maybe it should say everyone should be responsible for their own health care.
 
Yeah - but is the IRS helping the VA operate like it's "helping" the ACA? Some VAs are well run, but others are complete crap. When the ones run like crap were exposed what happened - the management still got their bonuses and nothing changed. The people that were supposedly fired or suspended never lost a dime and in many cases promoted.



http://www.law360.com/articles/704369/va-failing-to-punish-officials-for-misconduct-osc-says

http://freebeacon.com/issues/top-managers-at-phoenix-va-escaped-punishment-after-waitlist-scandal/


http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/curtis-houck/2015/11/11/nbc-skimps-report-va-paid-142-million-bonuses-amid-scandal-ridden
 
in reply to dhermesc
can't speak about anything in Britain, never been there ( too full of british people )for me
but can speak for Canada and when you make your statement, I believe you to be ill informed or retarded
I can't say one lousy thing about our Canadian health care model, wait times ? not sure what a wait time is
wait a few days to see a family doc ? ok no biggie wait a month or 2 to see a specialist again no biggie wait a few months to get surgery on something not life threatening no big deal
in the last 24 months , between my wife & myself, diagnosis , treatment & surgery for 1 total hip replacement
2 cataract eye suregery
3 total knee replacement
not to mention wifes cancer diagnosis which from first feeling lump , family doc, specialist for biopsy, specialist for results' appointment with oncologist to starting chemo , was 7 weeks
will get flamed for this, but think biggest obstacle to usa getting a similar type of universal health care in the usa is, #1 insurance companies / health care HMO's / hospitals that stand to lose revenue , and the attitiudes of haves vs have nots
here in Canada we seem to be ok with paying way too much income tax, way too much property tax , way too much sales tax and for sure we pay wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much for gas
but in the end , it means the home less bum or mom on welfare gets the same medical care I get, so guessing we are ok with it
bob
 
This is one of my favorite "rant" topics.

First, my daughter is an attorney who specializes in health law, works for a drug company dealing in regulation and compliance. When Obummercare was passed, she read the bill and told us "wait till this actually goes into effect and people try to use it. the s--t will hit the fan." She's in the "I told you so" mode now but no one is listening...yet.

Secondly, I have a Medicare Advantage plan with not-too outrageous monthly premium but my deductible is $5000. So, far, I've paid nothing for regular doctor visits, I think because they are "in-network". When trying to decide on a plan, it's very confusing and the 1 or 2 sentence summaries are written in such a way that it's very difficult to make any decisions based upon what "fits your situation" as the health care companies advertise when looking at different plans.

When I signed up for one (BC/BS Signature) I read the inch-thick book I got and you'd be hard-pressed to forecast what your true costs would be if you actually NEED any of the services.

As for prescriptions, my co-pays actually went DOWN for my 3 maintenance drugs (between $ 2.14 and $7.50). That was for my FIRST 3 months of pills. I was pleasantly surprised But every refill thereafter has had an increase in the co-pay, so now the cheapest is $5+). Not a huge deal but I see the trend. :roll:

My wife switched employers last year. Worked for a large hospital, had a great plan affiliated with that hospital. Her new employer (another large hospital) provided a plan (also closely linked with it) that costs her double was she had before, has nowhere the coverage and a multi-thousand dollar deductible. So far, she's had a few procedures in the last six months and I don't see where the plan has paid ANYTHING! This goes to the point of others on here that people are being hoodwinked into thinking they've got something of value (health insurance) when in fact they have to pay 100% until they reach some ridiculously high deductible.

My daughter just turned 26 and had to move off my wife's insurance and get her own this month. Healthy, single, she's paying $600+/month with a multi-thousand deductible. She probably won't need to use it at all over the next year, let alone reach the deductible limit so she will be paying $7000+ for nothing in return. This was the target market for external_link: young healthy individuals paying to subsidize the folks who elected this guy (47%'ers)

And finally, I just received my 3 month bill for Medicare Part B which was $399. It went from $104/month to $121 and I also had to pay the difference for Jan-Feb of this year that I had already paid for. Luckily I'm still working. I wonder how may retirees are looking for that extra $75 or so this month.

Yet, Insurance companies are losing money on external_link (United bailed) and my doctor is struggling with his increased costs and reduced reimbursement rates, so who is benefitting from all this? The only ones I can tell are the 47%'s who sit on their couches watching Oprah, on Medicaid or getting their health care subsidized.
 
And what would be wrong with a single payer system? In counties that have that people only pay about half of what we Americans pay and they live longer. The stories about long wait times are insurance company/nnalert propaganda!
 

Bob I was told by a health care provider that 50% is Canadiens buy private health insurance because the government was so bad? This was15 years ago. Is this true? Do you have private insurance to supplement the government plan?
 
Congressional hearings were held this week to discuss the fact that over $750 million
dollars have already been fraudulently claimed by illegal immigrants in external_linkCare benefits.
That money would go a long way to pay for health care for legal U.S. citizens and Medicare
and VA recipients.
 

Some data on wait times for you.


32741.jpg
32742.jpg
 
The latest numbers released for unemployment said that last month 151,000 were added to the economy. But the raw numbers before "adjustment" show 2.9 MILLION jobs lost.

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/tom-blumer/2016/02/09/not-news-januarys-actual-payroll-job-losses-seasonally-adjusted-look


Given the massive layoffs in the oil fields and the slow down in construction in general the jobs gained look like total fiction.
 
Actually about half buy coverage for things that the government plan doesn't cover - dental, vision, and prescription drugs. They can't buy "private coverage" health insurance for primary care because they can't use private coverage in Canada.

France has a "free" plan but about 20% or so have their own private coverage to avoid the "government healthcare" Almost 80% of the people in France have a supplemental plan to cover high deductibles of the government plan and for non covered services like dental.
 
You don't think the massive obesity problem in the US doesn't have anything to do with life expectancy? Quit paying people to sit on their tail and eat while taking away "public" transportation and you might see life expectancy go up. The average "poor" person in the US owns at least one car while the average poor person in Europe walks.
 
One thing sure , every one who goes in to the care of a Doctor will die . Some sooner , some later ,but no Doctor can make any one live forever. And if you have to pay out your life savings to live another couple of crummy years in poor health or in a home , then you may as well have been dead any way. But the Doctors will need to save everybody , till they empty their bank account . How you guys in the sates pay $4,000-$6000 a year for health insurance and think it is some how better , I will never understand. I am sure many get their health care as part of a wage package , and those would be the lucky ones . People in low wage , and seasonal jobs, must just go without. Every one that I know , that has been treated for a major illness or surgical procedure , has nothing but the highest praise for our health care here in Canada.It is not perfect , but then again , what is ?
 
As far as seeing a primary care physician,Sweden has a law that limits wait time. I don't know just how long it is,but it's hours,not days.
 
Yeah, keep on bashing the doctors, that's real helpful. I retired from medicine at age 63 because I could tell the bureaucrats to shove it. I feel sorry for the younger docs with massive loans, kids to raise and new government fixes almost every day. Nobody I know is pleased with the electronic medical record law. The doc talks to the computer screen and not the patient.
 
As scholar James Q. Wilson has stated, ?The poorest Americans today live a better life than all but the richest persons a hundred years ago.?[3] In 2005, the typical household defined as poor by the government had a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation.[4] In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave. Other household conveniences included a clothes washer, clothes dryer, ceiling fans, a cordless phone, and a coffee maker.


I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s with no AC, one TV, no clothes drier and my mom didn't allow a microwave in her home until 2002 - when she finally thought they might be safe to own.
 
Try having epilepsy treated in Canada and the come talk to me about how freaking great your system is.
 
My PCP belongs to a large medical group but maintains his own practice. When the nurse rooms a patient, she places her laptop in a docking station and enters all the patient information. When the doctor enters the exam room he places his laptop in the docking station and enters all of the information concerning the visit.

My wife is a NCMA for a large clinic and she likes the electronic medical system. She said it is easier than trying to read a doctors hand writing. LOL!

The organization she works for has envisioned that in the near future the doctor will be waiting for the patient in the exam room instead of the patient waiting for the doctor.
 
(quoted from post at 17:40:54 02/10/16) Try having epilepsy treated in Canada and the come talk to me about how freaking great your system is.
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I know folks here that have had trouble with things like that. A friend of mine had a stroke @36. No use of one side, no speech, he was miserable until he died @50. He had to use a 3 point cane, that's as good as it got for him. He never could work after that, and he had a wife and 4 kids.
 
(quoted from post at 14:44:02 02/10/16) in reply to dhermesc
can't speak about anything in Britain, never been there ( too full of british people )for me
but can speak for Canada and when you make your statement, I believe you to be ill informed or retarded
I can't say one lousy thing about our Canadian health care model, wait times ? not sure what a wait time is
wait a few days to see a family doc ? ok no biggie wait a month or 2 to see a specialist again no biggie wait a few months to get surgery on something not life threatening no big deal
in the last 24 months , between my wife & myself, diagnosis , treatment & surgery for 1 total hip replacement
2 cataract eye suregery
3 total knee replacement
not to mention wifes cancer diagnosis which from first feeling lump , family doc, specialist for biopsy, specialist for results' appointment with oncologist to starting chemo , was 7 weeks
will get flamed for this, but think biggest obstacle to usa getting a similar type of universal health care in the usa is, #1 insurance companies / health care HMO's / hospitals that stand to lose revenue , and the attitiudes of haves vs have nots
here in Canada we seem to be ok with paying way too much income tax, way too much property tax , way too much sales tax and for sure we pay wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much for gas
but in the end , it means the home less bum or mom on welfare gets the same medical care I get, so guessing we are ok with it
bob
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My experience is different. I used to work on the Ontario/NY border and spent a lot of time at the port of entry. Every day I spoke to Canadians coming from Ontario and Quebec into NYS to go to our local hospital for healthcare and they were paying out of pocket. At the local hospital the head of the ER was Canadian, lived in Ontario south of Ottawa and many of the other doctors and nursing staff were from either Ontario or Quebec. The Quebec nurses were handy since they spoke French and so many patients were French speaking. The story I heard time after time was that the patients weren't going to wait on the Canadian system for medical care and the doctors were in the US because the pay was so much better. I can't believe they were all lying.

I also spent a lot of time listening to the local AM station out of Ottawa. One of the hosts used to take calls and they were often healthcare related. The horror stories were numerous. Again, it can't all be lies. The truckers from Canada I spoke with daily told similar stories. It can't all be lies.

Maybe it's just Eastern On, but there are at least some Canadians that aren't happy with the system.
 
Unfortunately about the only way out is single payer or socialized medicine .....like Canada. Looking back, it would have been much cheaper for everyone for the government to just pick up the tab for those that weren't insurable.....now we are in a big mess!
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Why would single payer or socialization fix it? Seriously, what's your reason for believing that?
 
Our family doctor who is about 40 dropped out of his private practice that seemed to be fairly successful. He was going to work as an ER doctor instead. He said it was totally different. As part of the practice he had to help manage the business and figure out how to cheat Medicare and Medicaid to get paid. Private insurance covered the costs they were losing on "government insurance". With ACA it was only going to get worse and he said it (ACA) would fail and then it probably would move to single payer system. Without the private insurance to supplement the government coverage they'd be out of business. He was leaving to beat the stampede for the doors in 4-5 years. Now he does shift work, gets paid by the hour and somebody else gets to worry about how to get paid.

If you think healthcare/health insurance is bad now - give it 10 years. This is the "good old days".
 
(quoted from post at 07:09:48 02/11/16)
Unfortunately about the only way out is single payer or socialized medicine .....like Canada. Looking back, it would have been much cheaper for everyone for the government to just pick up the tab for those that weren't insurable.....now we are in a big mess!
Click to expand...

Why would single payer or socialization fix it? Seriously, what's your reason for believing that?
Click to expand...

I never said it would fix it, it would just continue important parts of the existing plan. Everyone likes the fact that you cannot be denied insurance or dropped by an insurance company and this is the only other way to keep that part of AHCA because they need all the taxpayers chipping in to pay for it. That is why insurance has gone up so much and the government is throwing money at it right now....not enough people paying in to offset those that now get health insurance and are draining the system with chronic health issues. Do you want to go back to a system where you can be denied health insurance? I didn't think so....and no other style of plan will work.
 
Eldon (WA)- "Do you want to go back to a system where you can be denied health insurance? I
didn't think so....".

It seems that Ron-MO will disagrees with you..."but the mistake was providing health care to
people who could not afford it.......if you cannot afford, you should do without. No one was born
with the right for free care".
 
I still do part-time MD stuff and have also started a clinic with a Chinese traditional doctor doing what used to be called alternative medicine. We keep getting busier and busier. Lots of folks out there are "sick" of modern medicine and taking pills that are toxic. We clean up their diet, do acupuncture and moxibustion, and teach them self-healing tai chi stuff. We have had some great results, and when we help somebody, they send us new patients. Cash only, no computers, so the govt. will probably shut us down.
 
I'll go back to the old system where l could be denied, and given the freedom to choose if I want to spend my money on insurance or not instead of our funny screwed up government telling me I have to.
 
old560- So how do you feel about people now getting lifesaving treatment that previously they couldn't afford or were denied coverage?
 
(quoted from post at 13:24:42 02/11/16)
(quoted from post at 07:09:48 02/11/16)
Unfortunately about the only way out is single payer or socialized medicine .....like Canada. Looking back, it would have been much cheaper for everyone for the government to just pick up the tab for those that weren't insurable.....now we are in a big mess!
Click to expand...

Why would single payer or socialization fix it? Seriously, what's your reason for believing that?
Click to expand...

I never said it would fix it, it would just continue important parts of the existing plan. Everyone likes the fact that you cannot be denied insurance or dropped by an insurance company and this is the only other way to keep that part of AHCA because they need all the taxpayers chipping in to pay for it. That is why insurance has gone up so much and the government is throwing money at it right now....not enough people paying in to offset those that now get health insurance and are draining the system with chronic health issues. Do you want to go back to a system where you can be denied health insurance? I didn't think so....and no other style of plan will work.
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Then put the people who would be denied in a special pool and have the taxpayer subsidize that tiny fraction of a percent of the population. What we have now is sucking the money out of both those with insurance, through their own plans costs, and though taxation to cover the huge increase in Medicaid enrollees.

We don't need to tell someone they can't get treatment, but it's madness to simply treat everyone as though they were healthy.
 
(quoted from post at 18:27:59 02/11/16) old560- So how do you feel about people now getting lifesaving treatment that previously they couldn't afford or were denied coverage?
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So how do you feel about people who couldn't afford health care before now still not being able to afford it but being fined on top of it? How do you feel about costs going through the roof? How do you feel abut a system that isn't doing what they promised it would?
 
(quoted from post at 09:24:42 02/11/16)
(quoted from post at 07:09:48 02/11/16)
Unfortunately about the only way out is single payer or socialized medicine .....like Canada. Looking back, it would have been much cheaper for everyone for the government to just pick up the tab for those that weren't insurable.....now we are in a big mess!
Click to expand...

Why would single payer or socialization fix it? Seriously, what's your reason for believing that?
Click to expand...

I never said it would fix it, it would just continue important parts of the existing plan. Everyone likes the fact that you cannot be denied insurance or dropped by an insurance company and this is the only other way to keep that part of AHCA because they need all the taxpayers chipping in to pay for it. That is why insurance has gone up so much and the government is throwing money at it right now....not enough people paying in to offset those that now get health insurance and are draining the system with chronic health issues. Do you want to go back to a system where you can be denied health insurance? I didn't think so....and no other style of plan will work.
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Eldon, the problem in the US with single payer, if without changing the laws it will be too expensive. Every working aged American would pay about 50% in taxes. That's right, 50% with no earned income credit, very few deductions and few is any refunds. And that wouldn't be a gradual increase. That would have to start the day a single payer system went into effect. Most people I know would loose most of what they own if all of a sudden they had to start paying those kinds of taxes. On the other side of the coin everyone would be paying their fare share! All those folks who don't pay anything or who get back more than they pay in would finally start paying their share.

There would have been a much simpler way of fixing the problem. 1. Government regulation of the health care industry to control cost. 2. A simple law baring denial of coverage and 3. raise the level of income to qualify for medicaid. A large number of those who didn't have coverage qualified anyway. They just were not on it.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 07:17:40 02/12/16)
(quoted from post at 13:24:42 02/11/16)
(quoted from post at 07:09:48 02/11/16)
Unfortunately about the only way out is single payer or socialized medicine .....like Canada. Looking back, it would have been much cheaper for everyone for the government to just pick up the tab for those that weren't insurable.....now we are in a big mess!
Click to expand...

Why would single payer or socialization fix it? Seriously, what's your reason for believing that?
Click to expand...

I never said it would fix it, it would just continue important parts of the existing plan. Everyone likes the fact that you cannot be denied insurance or dropped by an insurance company and this is the only other way to keep that part of AHCA because they need all the taxpayers chipping in to pay for it. That is why insurance has gone up so much and the government is throwing money at it right now....not enough people paying in to offset those that now get health insurance and are draining the system with chronic health issues. Do you want to go back to a system where you can be denied health insurance? I didn't think so....and no other style of plan will work.
Click to expand...

Then put the people who would be denied in a special pool and have the taxpayer subsidize that tiny fraction of a percent of the population. What we have now is sucking the money out of both those with insurance, through their own plans costs, and though taxation to cover the huge increase in Medicaid enrollees.

We don't need to tell someone they can't get treatment, but it's madness to simply treat everyone as though they were healthy.
Click to expand...

They should have just had that special pool from the beginning instead of ACA, it would have saved us all a lot of $$$$$. Unfortunately I think that ship has sailed....
 
(quoted from post at 08:23:34 02/12/16)
(quoted from post at 09:24:42 02/11/16)
(quoted from post at 07:09:48 02/11/16)
Unfortunately about the only way out is single payer or socialized medicine .....like Canada. Looking back, it would have been much cheaper for everyone for the government to just pick up the tab for those that weren't insurable.....now we are in a big mess!
Click to expand...

Why would single payer or socialization fix it? Seriously, what's your reason for believing that?
Click to expand...

I never said it would fix it, it would just continue important parts of the existing plan. Everyone likes the fact that you cannot be denied insurance or dropped by an insurance company and this is the only other way to keep that part of AHCA because they need all the taxpayers chipping in to pay for it. That is why insurance has gone up so much and the government is throwing money at it right now....not enough people paying in to offset those that now get health insurance and are draining the system with chronic health issues. Do you want to go back to a system where you can be denied health insurance? I didn't think so....and no other style of plan will work.
Click to expand...

Eldon, the problem in the US with single payer, if without changing the laws it will be too expensive. Every working aged American would pay about 50% in taxes. That's right, 50% with no earned income credit, very few deductions and few is any refunds. And that wouldn't be a gradual increase. That would have to start the day a single payer system went into effect. Most people I know would loose most of what they own if all of a sudden they had to start paying those kinds of taxes. On the other side of the coin everyone would be paying their fare share! All those folks who don't pay anything or who get back more than they pay in would finally start paying their share.

There would have been a much simpler way of fixing the problem. 1. Government regulation of the health care industry to control cost. 2. A simple law baring denial of coverage and 3. raise the level of income to qualify for medicaid. A large number of those who didn't have coverage qualified anyway. They just were not on it.

Rick
Click to expand...

I agree...and don't get me wrong, I don't support a single payer system...I just think that is the only alternative after the ACA debacle. Just wait, whoever gets elected, there will be no change. Both sides will be afraid to support any major changes. Candidates talk about repealing it, but it won't happen. The only way the ACA has any chance of succeeding is with the forced insurance clause, so that will never get repealed. Nobody has come up with an alternative that will work (and satisfy the masses) from what I see.

Government telling insurance companies what they can charge and who they can drop will only result in insurance companies going broke....telling hospitals and doctors what they can charge will lead to fewer doctors, longer waits and substandard care. It's a no-win situation.
 
(quoted from post at 10:53:10 02/12/16)
(quoted from post at 08:23:34 02/12/16)
(quoted from post at 09:24:42 02/11/16)
(quoted from post at 07:09:48 02/11/16)
Unfortunately about the only way out is single payer or socialized medicine .....like Canada. Looking back, it would have been much cheaper for everyone for the government to just pick up the tab for those that weren't insurable.....now we are in a big mess!
Click to expand...

Why would single payer or socialization fix it? Seriously, what's your reason for believing that?
Click to expand...

I never said it would fix it, it would just continue important parts of the existing plan. Everyone likes the fact that you cannot be denied insurance or dropped by an insurance company and this is the only other way to keep that part of AHCA because they need all the taxpayers chipping in to pay for it. That is why insurance has gone up so much and the government is throwing money at it right now....not enough people paying in to offset those that now get health insurance and are draining the system with chronic health issues. Do you want to go back to a system where you can be denied health insurance? I didn't think so....and no other style of plan will work.
Click to expand...

Eldon, the problem in the US with single payer, if without changing the laws it will be too expensive. Every working aged American would pay about 50% in taxes. That's right, 50% with no earned income credit, very few deductions and few is any refunds. And that wouldn't be a gradual increase. That would have to start the day a single payer system went into effect. Most people I know would loose most of what they own if all of a sudden they had to start paying those kinds of taxes. On the other side of the coin everyone would be paying their fare share! All those folks who don't pay anything or who get back more than they pay in would finally start paying their share.

There would have been a much simpler way of fixing the problem. 1. Government regulation of the health care industry to control cost. 2. A simple law baring denial of coverage and 3. raise the level of income to qualify for medicaid. A large number of those who didn't have coverage qualified anyway. They just were not on it.

Rick
Click to expand...

I agree...and don't get me wrong, I don't support a single payer system...I just think that is the only alternative after the ACA debacle. Just wait, whoever gets elected, there will be no change. Both sides will be afraid to support any major changes. Candidates talk about repealing it, but it won't happen. The only way the ACA has any chance of succeeding is with the forced insurance clause, so that will never get repealed. Nobody has come up with an alternative that will work (and satisfy the masses) from what I see.

Government telling insurance companies what they can charge and who they can drop will only result in insurance companies going broke....telling hospitals and doctors what they can charge will lead to fewer doctors, longer waits and substandard care. It's a no-win situation.
Click to expand...

Actually the mistake we made as a people was yelling about government health subsidies back in the 70's. Back then most hospitals were run by doctors. If they ran in the red the government made up the difference at the end of the year. Health cost were manageable. Then to get away from subsidies they allowed the HMO's, for profit to come into existence. Health care cost have been climbing like mad ever sense. Even non profit hospitals are raking in enough that every year they spend thousands if not millions on expansions and remodels so that at reporting time there is no profit. County hospital falls into that group. In the last 15 or so years they have put 2 multi million dollar additions on the hospital plus built several satellite clinics. They just finished up one 3 story addition that included buying out several homes and paying to have another of them moved. And yea, I do kinda know what I'm talking about with that hospital, my daughter is a medical lab tech there. I know that when my wife was injured her doctor there was outraged when he found out what the hospital was charging per 15 minutes of his time.

Rick
 

Canadians and Europeans who are not on welfare , those that are not dependents, students or those making minimum wage . They pay 50% or more between payroll taxes. Property tax, retail tax. Fuel taxes. Sin taxes etc.
 
Bret4207- "So how do you feel about people who couldn't afford health care before now still not
being able to afford it but being fined on top of it?".

You just described my situation, Bret. How do I feel about?- Although I can't afford the premium,
I am glad that it helps many more than it helped before. BTW, I was diagnosed with colon cancer
2.5 years ago and had my colon removed. Now, I have no insurance and can't go for follow-up
testing. I'm still happy that the ACA is there for more people even though I fall into that
'doughnut' hole.
 
(quoted from post at 15:57:04 02/12/16) Bret4207- "So how do you feel about people who couldn't afford health care before now still not
being able to afford it but being fined on top of it?".

You just described my situation, Bret. How do I feel about?- Although I can't afford the premium,
I am glad that it helps many more than it helped before. BTW, I was diagnosed with colon cancer
2.5 years ago and had my colon removed. Now, I have no insurance and can't go for follow-up
testing. I'm still happy that the ACA is there for more people even though I fall into that
'doughnut' hole.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry for your situation, but before external_link we had 35 million with no health care. Now they tell us we have 35 million without healthcare. Since Medicaid has grown by leaps and bounds, then it must be an equal number lost their plan? I don't know. All I do know is my costs went up, one of my kids cant afford a plan and is going to be fined. It's a poor answer at best.

You don't qualify for Medicaid?
 
Bret4207- "You don't qualify for Medicaid?".

No, I make a little over the limit to qualify for Medicaid. So, what I do earn coupled with the
subsidy would take 43% of my income to cover the premium. That and a $6000 deductible makes it
unobtainable for me.

43% of my income plus the $6,000 deductible would pretty much eat all of my take home pay.
 
(quoted from post at 11:45:08 02/12/16)
(quoted from post at 10:53:10 02/12/16)
(quoted from post at 08:23:34 02/12/16)
(quoted from post at 09:24:42 02/11/16)
(quoted from post at 07:09:48 02/11/16)
Unfortunately about the only way out is single payer or socialized medicine .....like Canada. Looking back, it would have been much cheaper for everyone for the government to just pick up the tab for those that weren't insurable.....now we are in a big mess!
Click to expand...

Why would single payer or socialization fix it? Seriously, what's your reason for believing that?
Click to expand...

I never said it would fix it, it would just continue important parts of the existing plan. Everyone likes the fact that you cannot be denied insurance or dropped by an insurance company and this is the only other way to keep that part of AHCA because they need all the taxpayers chipping in to pay for it. That is why insurance has gone up so much and the government is throwing money at it right now....not enough people paying in to offset those that now get health insurance and are draining the system with chronic health issues. Do you want to go back to a system where you can be denied health insurance? I didn't think so....and no other style of plan will work.
Click to expand...

Eldon, the problem in the US with single payer, if without changing the laws it will be too expensive. Every working aged American would pay about 50% in taxes. That's right, 50% with no earned income credit, very few deductions and few is any refunds. And that wouldn't be a gradual increase. That would have to start the day a single payer system went into effect. Most people I know would loose most of what they own if all of a sudden they had to start paying those kinds of taxes. On the other side of the coin everyone would be paying their fare share! All those folks who don't pay anything or who get back more than they pay in would finally start paying their share.

There would have been a much simpler way of fixing the problem. 1. Government regulation of the health care industry to control cost. 2. A simple law baring denial of coverage and 3. raise the level of income to qualify for medicaid. A large number of those who didn't have coverage qualified anyway. They just were not on it.

Rick
Click to expand...

I agree...and don't get me wrong, I don't support a single payer system...I just think that is the only alternative after the ACA debacle. Just wait, whoever gets elected, there will be no change. Both sides will be afraid to support any major changes. Candidates talk about repealing it, but it won't happen. The only way the ACA has any chance of succeeding is with the forced insurance clause, so that will never get repealed. Nobody has come up with an alternative that will work (and satisfy the masses) from what I see.

Government telling insurance companies what they can charge and who they can drop will only result in insurance companies going broke....telling hospitals and doctors what they can charge will lead to fewer doctors, longer waits and substandard care. It's a no-win situation.
Click to expand...

Actually the mistake we made as a people was yelling about government health subsidies back in the 70's. Back then most hospitals were run by doctors. If they ran in the red the government made up the difference at the end of the year. Health cost were manageable. Then to get away from subsidies they allowed the HMO's, for profit to come into existence. Health care cost have been climbing like mad ever sense. Even non profit hospitals are raking in enough that every year they spend thousands if not millions on expansions and remodels so that at reporting time there is no profit. County hospital falls into that group. In the last 15 or so years they have put 2 multi million dollar additions on the hospital plus built several satellite clinics. They just finished up one 3 story addition that included buying out several homes and paying to have another of them moved. And yea, I do kinda know what I'm talking about with that hospital, my daughter is a medical lab tech there. I know that when my wife was injured her doctor there was outraged when he found out what the hospital was charging per 15 minutes of his time.

Rick
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, My wife is a laboratory technologist also...went back to work in her profession (after a 15 year hiatus) 3 months ago partly so we could afford decent health insurance. Turned out to be a good move as I am racking up the bills with radiation treatments right now.....call me lucky.
 
(quoted from post at 11:57:04 02/12/16) Bret4207- "So how do you feel about people who couldn't afford health care before now still not
being able to afford it but being fined on top of it?".

You just described my situation, Bret. How do I feel about?- Although I can't afford the premium,
I am glad that it helps many more than it helped before. BTW, I was diagnosed with colon cancer
2.5 years ago and had my colon removed. Now, I have no insurance and can't go for follow-up
testing. I'm still happy that the ACA is there for more people even though I fall into that
'doughnut' hole.
Click to expand...

Greg there is a problem with the numbers covered. If you note the government isn't talking much about that. From what I can find with a good deal of looking is we started with about 34 million who had no coverage that are now eligible for subsidies IF they can afford the monthly rates until tax time. Now we still have 34 million with no coverage that WERE covered before but because of the ACA and subsequent insurance rate hikes can no longer afford coverage. Funny how that works.

Rick

Rick
 
oldtanker- I've been searching the 'net' looking for stats to see what the actual numbers are. I
like the BLS but, the most current numbers are for 2014. I'll keep searching but, if you come up
with something...please post a link.


"Funny how that works."- I don't think any of this is 'funny', BTW.
 
(quoted from post at 13:47:52 02/12/16) oldtanker- I've been searching the 'net' looking for stats to see what the actual numbers are. I
like the BLS but, the most current numbers are for 2014. I'll keep searching but, if you come up
with something...please post a link.


"Funny how that works."- I don't think any of this is 'funny', BTW.
Click to expand...

That was laced full of sarcasm! We've had several family members had serious problems with their health insurance over the last couple of months because of ACA. A niece just this week, who is due with her 2nd kid in weeks was told at work that they changed carriers. The new insurance company is now telling her they won't cover the rest of her pregnancy because she didn't tell them before hand that she planned on having another kid.

Rick
 
oldtanker- I've been trying to understand your post about sarcasm posted by me. Maybe, when I
posted that I liked the BLS, you assumed that I was calling your post BS?????

The BLS I was referring to is 'The Bureau of Labor Statistics'.


HTH
 
(quoted from post at 21:50:28 02/12/16) oldtanker- I've been trying to understand your post about sarcasm posted by me. Maybe, when I
posted that I liked the BLS, you assumed that I was calling your post BS?????

The BLS I was referring to is 'The Bureau of Labor Statistics'.


HTH
Click to expand...

No, when I wrote "Funny how that works" you replied I believe something to the effect that you did find it funny at all. The Funny was meant as sarcastic.

Rick
 
oldtanker- "No, when I wrote "Funny how that works" you replied I believe something to the effect
that you did find it funny at all. The Funny was meant as sarcastic."

Oh, okay, Thanks. I thought you were accusing me of being sarcastic but it was you being
sarcastic.

I appreciate you explaining that to me.
 
(quoted from post at 16:32:07 02/12/16) Bret4207- "You don't qualify for Medicaid?".

No, I make a little over the limit to qualify for Medicaid. So, what I do earn coupled with the
subsidy would take 43% of my income to cover the premium. That and a $6000 deductible makes it
unobtainable for me.

43% of my income plus the $6,000 deductible would pretty much eat all of my take home pay.
Click to expand...

That stinks. What good is a system that mandates you have coverage but makes coverage unaffordable? We can do better.
 
They make it unaffordable because it's mandatory. If they actually had to compete, it would be different.

Similar to college tuition rising every time more money is put out for making loans to students. The school gets their money if the student pays or not.
 
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