(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Just think about it.

B

Brent Zappe

Member
I did this one day I brought my 1966 G.M.C in for a oil change and a compelete tune up. I thought since I had no time to do it myself that just maybe I should let some body eles do the work.To my amazement I found out that no body in an auto shop knew how to do the work. I looked at them and tried to figure out what part of a mechanic where they. todays Mechanics really just reads computer codes from the brain that control the engine systems. They are not old school ( like a person like me) When the engine pings what does it tells you? When the engine stalls in acceleration what does it tell you? Or when the engine sends out black smoke out of the tail pipe. Just think these guys have to run a computer codes but what if the car does not have a computer brain. What if they would have to trouble shoot it by ear? Could they? Old cars need old school people like me. I like those old cars with those old engines. Chevy 283,327,350,400 and then big block 454,450 and 455 in buick plus Cad. Ford 289,302,302Boss,351 Winsor,351 cleveland and Big Block 351 MIdland,352 Midland and 460 engine found in LTD.Ford owns Cummings diesels and dodge trucks has them in there trucks interesting. International diesels are in Ford trucks. Understand your hobby is to live it. Not make fun of it. To collect in the hobby is to understand the makers of that equipment and to research the way it was made. Ask your self this questions. 1 Why it is made that way? 2. what purpose did it serve for you the person who needed it to do that job? 3. As a car collector and a Tractor collector. What do you enjoy. Look at Case they did tractrs and cars. Look at International Harvester they did trucks, cars, tractors and much more. All I ask is do your research witch you will see it pays off. Some thing to think about okay..thanks.
 
We had a retired couple living next door. Turned out that he was a retired mechanic who knew how to rebuild large carburetors and repair generators. Every dealership in town brought him work. He wanted more free time for retirement but the dealers pushed him for rush jobs. He was capable of rebuilding 4-barrel carburetors that were used until fuel injection came out. Seems he was the only guy in the city that could do that, the way the repair shops piled work on him.
 
Since when does ford own Cummins? I have worked there for 20 years in research and trust me Ford has nothing to do with them.
 
SHMBO says all the time "Why don't you just take it to the garage?". When it comes to my old stuff I tell her that I am better qualified to do the work.
 
A young mechanic age 23 worked with me for a while. He happen to see a Tach-Dwell Meter in my tool box and asked what that was for.
What you described works both ways. Us older mechanics can't work on these newer engines either unless you keep up with the schooling and work with it everyday. These new vehicles you can hook up a computer and it can tell you it's not getting a reading from a certain sensor but it may be a broken wire which it can't tell you that.
For you to say a collector should know and research the topic, that would be nice but many people collect or have hobby that make them feel good or be with other people and they're not worried about details, history, how it works. They just have the money to let some one else work on the item. Like they way the worst football player makes the best coach..
I always did say the biggest mistake a person can make is thinking some one else knows what you know..
We don't know anything about space ships because we don't use them or have a need for them. So why would someone expect us to?

Don't be so Vain with your mechanic. Evidently you don't know how to work on it either or you wouldn't have taken it to him or your expectations were wrong.
 
Sorry, but that is pretty much a pack of nonsense. The "computer cars" are infinitely more complex than the old cars. Hooking a computer to a car just points the mechanic in some possible directions. The modern mechanic must understand all the problems of the old cars PLUS all of the computer inputs and outputs. Many unrelated problems have the same symptoms. Pinging on the new cars could be caused by over advanced timing, lean mixture caused by vacuum leaks, partially plugged injectors, low fuel pressure, faulty pressure regulator etc. Pinging could be caused by any of several sensors being outside of correct parameters. Pinging could be caused by a problem in the cooling system causing the car to overheat. Pinging could be caused by someone installing big tires causing the engine to "lug." It could also be caused by someone disabling some of the emission system in order to make it run like the "old cars." Just think about it.
 
Don't feel bad, I've got newer cars with computers and the mechanics can't fix them either. I have to take them home and repair them myself. I think the time has come when they need to make cars cheaper so when they break down you send them off to the landfill and get another one like every other disposable product made today.
 
Cummins / Ford. It's kinda like the Paul Bunyan and Babe the blue Ox fable -- it's a story that just won't go away. Heard it at my local coffee shop awhile back. I just went on with my breakfast. I know those guys, don't confuse them with facts.
 
All I can do is relate my own experience. I had a 2000 Buick Regal that would periodically either refuse to start or just quit running while cruising along at highway speed. My son took it to 2 GM dealerships, as did I. Together we must have spent over $500 on misdiagnosis, (they ALL told us that the next time the trouble happened to bring it in, but without showing on the computer, they could not diagnose the problem). After a couple years of this frustration, I happened to mention the problem to an independent auto mechanic. He said he knew exactly what the problem was: the crankshaft sensor. I brought the car in to him, 2 hours and $90 later the car was as good as new. I am not discrediting the need nor the usefulness of computers, but they sure failed in this circumstance. There is much to be said for experience, intuition and common sense to go along with computers.
 
New stuff, old stuff, a REAL mechanic can handle either. Like it or not, working on cars and trucks WILL get your hands dirty.

Anybody that thinks that you just "plug in a scanner" and it tells you what is wrong is sadly mistaken. That tool that a mechanic plugs into the car's computer will only tell him what circuit is out of spec. The mechanic has to figure it out from there. Sadly, when you look under the hood of today's cars, there are no visual indications of what may be wrong. A failed sensor looks just like one that is working properly.

Unfortunately, today's technical schools and mechanic training do not teach any of the "old school" information. Like how to set points, dwell, and timing. Like how to adjust a carburetor. Knowledge of these skills help the mechanic to understand how an engine works. Even though all of the old mechanical things are now replaced with electronics, a basic understanding is very helpful in diagnosing a problem. All too often mechanics take the "shotgun" approach. They start changing parts until something fixes the problem. Lack of understanding is the reason for that.
 
Amen to that...... I can remember when Ford tried the ole if you can't beat them then join them, they had announced their intentions to possibly do bidness with Cummins and install their motors in their Ford trucks boy did Dodge start caterwauling funniest thing i ever heard.
 
Ford wanted the B engine before Dodge but they wanted to make it in house instead of buying it from Cummins.
 
(quoted from post at 09:35:16 01/23/16) Amen to that...... I can remember when Ford tried the ole if you can't beat them then join them, they had announced their intentions to possibly do bidness with Cummins and install their motors in their Ford trucks boy did Dodge start caterwauling funniest thing i ever heard.
Click to expand...
read that you can buy a Cat truck now days, but it has some other make motor in it, since CAT stopped making over the road engines.Sometimes seems like an odd world, but probably makes business sense.
 
When they were teaching tune-ups at the auto tech school I went to, we had to pull all ignition-point distributors, disassemble them, lube them up and then put them on a distributor machine to make sure they had the proper dwell, vacuum advance and centrifugal advance. The electronic ignitions had been massed-produced for about a half a dozen years and the old, seasoned instructor was so confused by them that he said just to leave those electronic dizzys in the car and we shouldn't mess with them. So it works both ways.
 
We had the exact same problem on a 1994 lesabre a few years back. Local gm dealer replaced approximately 600.00 worth of parts. Finally called gm and were told to change the crankshaft sensor. That was the problem. Code book said nothing about the sensor. Robertm
 
I will offer an analogy. Why would a young guy learning to farm learn to harness a horse? They need to focus on what makes them money now. Learning how to tune up a 40 year old engine is fun but it won't make him much money. His pay check is based on fixing modern cars. I grew up on a farm and never harnessed a horse. My dad probably never yoked an ox. Technology moves forward everywhere.
 
BIL took his 1965 Chevy pickup into the local mechanic (who is in his 40's, and has owned his own shop for years...). The guy had it for three days before he called up his dad (an "old school" mechanic), to ask him WHERE HE HOOKED THE COMUTER UP TO IT......
 
Just a sign of the times. I don't expect there are may JD mechanics that have much knowledge about the old 2 cylinder tractors anymore, either.
 
I once had a '92 Olds 88 that drove me nuts. About a half dozen times the engine cut off like you'd turned the ignition off. Leave it set a half hour and it would start up and run fine. After it had done it several times, I noticed a pattern. It only did it when it was in a situation where heat could build up under the hood. Like idling in line and a drive up bank window, etc.

Next time it did it, I jumped out, popped the hood, and held a handful of snow under the ignition module. Started right up. Problem solved.
 
As a former GM dealer tech I'll agree with some of the others, that old truck is the least of their worries. When you wanna have old stuff as most of us here,its because we like old stuff and can work on old stuff. There's really NO reason at all why a current technician would or should care about points,condensers or carbs. Times change.
 
Next time could you just ask them to change the spark plugs for you? That would be the majority of the work in a tune-up. You could change the points and adjust the carburetor yourself.

Electronic ignitions replaced points on cars and trucks about 40 years ago, and fuel injection replaced carburetors on cars and trucks about 30 years ago. I don't see much demand to train ALL new mechanics to work on that stuff anymore.
 
I remember what my brother, who was an auto mechanic, said one time...If the computer on a car is broke and cant tell you what is wrong, then what?
 
I am a mechanic and came in right between the old school and the new school car technology. I cut my teeth on tractors, lawn mowers, snowmobiles , go carts, motorbikes etc. So I learned all the basics and got good with a broad range of mechanical stuff. You are correct, some of the new batch of technicians don't know how a carb even works. Some might be a little sketchy on basic engine theory and operation. However, Trust me when I say the new stuff is no picnic to learn and repair. The computer helps you, but also adds so much complexity and variables . No one guy can know it all. But , there are still guys in the industry that are well rounded and can fix anything.
 
Just thinking about this post makes my frickin head hurt, I worked for a GM dealer for 40 years, dealership took in anything that would fit in the door and some that wouldn't. Used to like some of it if that was all there was on slow spell in the shop, one I remember was a 1916 or 18 Chey Baby Grand I think it was, wood spokes and all, parts room quit speaking to me. Or overhauling 3 Carter carbs. for a 54 Corvette, can't overnight them parts, books been gone for years, service writer can't come up with flat rate time so just low balls something out of the sky. Ninety percent of that old stuff has been cobbled and butchered a 100 times already, has parts off something else, parts dept. don't want anything to do with it, flat rate book only goes back about 10 years so the mechanic can be assured of a screwing. I'm super glad to be away from that rat race. I like some of the old stuff and like working on it but not when I'm trying to make any money on it.
 
If I may......
The whole reason to at least know ABOUT old technology is to understand HOW an engine works and WHY. The basics have not changed in over 100 years. Most have been replaced by electronics, but the basics remain.

Your analogy about harnessing a horse is not applicable. Why? Because there is a huge difference between a tractor and a horse. There is little difference between an internal combustion engine and another internal combustion engine. The basics apply to BOTH of them.
The key here is the UNDERSTANDING of HOW an engine works and the WHY.
 
Even if his 1966 truck had a computer they probably still could not fix it because the technology would be so out of date. And if he need a new computer he would have to just park his truck because the computer would be NLA.
 
Cummings is a maker of cheap tools. Maybe a scad better than harbor freight quality. They ARE owned by Ford. Probably put motorcraft labels on the box to sell them to their techs at a significant mark-up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Crazy Horse
Barrett Jackson: 9N and '48 JD B sold Monday
Replies
9
Views
972
Russ from MN
R
2
Mixed fleet antifreeze recommendations
Replies
8
Views
437
4play
4
jd2cyl1943
Oil Can help
Replies
8
Views
994
DoubleO7
DoubleO7
A
Martin Senour Paint codes discontinued??
Replies
3
Views
299
DoubleO7
DoubleO7
J
Deed and title theft issues any of you aware of it
2 3
Replies
42
Views
2K
DoubleO7
DoubleO7
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top