2nd story addition

The wife and I were talking about what we would like to do next with the house if we had the money. We have a ranch type house and got to thinking about how nice it would be to have a second story. I was wondering if anybody undertook such a project and was happy with the outcome? If anybody did it did they raise the roof as one piece or did they just tear it off and started fresh? I would need to consult with a building contractor to make sure there is adequate support in the first story at the present time and so forth. I was thinking the advantages would be no need to lay additional foundation, minimal plumbing additions, and there would be recovery of heat from the first floor into the second.

I am a General Contractor and your plan depends on a few factors. You should consult a contractor to see if you have an adequate foundation to go up another floor. That is a big factor. Good luck!

Rethink your decision. A second story means stairs and as you age, you'll learn to hate the stairs more and more.

The contractor that was in here many years ago said the foundation was more than adequate. He was here for other work but never got as far as checking over the first story. For discussion purposes let's say those aspects check out. What's next?

Wife and I loved our 2nd story for 22 years, but she has bad knees now and wishes we had just one floor. When you get older the steps become a burden (I don't mind because I'm still pretty healthy). Though if you do it, consider adding a laundry chute -- they are good to have. Why don't you just add on to the ground floor of your rancher?

We have thought about that and are OK with stairs. The house was laid out in a way so as to expand horizontally very impractical. Chimney, central heat, septic and electric would have to be moved.

If your making that much change you might as well rip down the old and build a new house. It will likely cost less or slightly more and then you still have an old house that had a lot of work done. For renovation to be cost effective, you pretty much have to stay in the existing building envelop.

You say you are ok with stairs but the reality of aging will eventually prohibit you from climbing them or put at great risk of falling & suffering serious injury. Either add on to the 1st floor or move. Adding a 2nd story will, in the long run, turn into a wasted space or the cause of a serious or fatal injury.

Valid point about aging. The house is right at the farm so no moving as I would want no new neighbors so close. We do not have any kids to take it over in time. Probably when we get too old to climb which should be many years off we would go back to a bedroom on the first floor just as it is now. We are cramped for space and would like to do something if possible while comparatively young. If no second story then garage with office space but that would not really suit the wife.

First, and I mean no contractor dis-respect, you will need a design professional to make the determination that your existing foundation is adequate to support what you propose to build. You will then take the licensed professional engineers/registered architects stamped/sealed drawings + any supplemental details/calculations (stamped as well) to the municipality where you reside for submission and approval and hopefully obtain a building permit to construct what you propose. A reputable contractor would typically be able to direct you along the process and would likely know from experience whether its build-able and or feasible, but unless that contractor has the designers qualifications such as a P.E./R.A. license, thats all they can do. SOme have designers they work with to do the above. I would never rely on a contractor for design services otherwise.

I have seen what you propose to do done in an occupied residence, I delivered all the materials throughout the job, it worked, it was not the best situation, but it was done while they lived there. Really odd to see a roof off an existing home, all furnished and occupied. The others I have seen done, moved temporarily. To do it occupied it takes some coordination with the occupants and weather cooperation to get the roof on, that and a lot of people to bang it out. We delivered to contractors that were capable of framing entire houses, with the roof on, shingles included and windows going in, from the foundation up, in a few days. Lot of people working and these were 80's vintage raised ranch or 2 story homes, not all that big, but not a cape cod or kit from sears in the late 40's into the 50's either. I was always amazed to see what a framing crew can do if they hustle and have everything they need. I've never seen one of these have the roof jacked, all were new framing.

As a kid growing up in the '60's, I had cousins that grew into a larger family of six. Aunt was a housewife, Uncle was a foreman at Bendix and the sole bread winner, so up he went. Took him a while to do, but he did what they call a dormer where he cut and raised the roof, more flat than peaked. Lots of people do that, I see them all over the place. Then there's a friend of mine that does such expansions. He did one of my neighbors when I lived in Romeoville, IL. A ranch house, took off the trusses so it had no roof, then he put 2x10 trusses all across that overhung about 2' in front and back, and then went up another story and peaked roof. Every night after picking up the tools for the day, he and his guys dragged out the big blue plastic tarps in case it rained. At first I thought that was a lot of extra weight on the original 2x4 walls, but not to be. The expansion was engineered and drawn up, came out very well like any two-story house that has 2x4 walls, and an upstairs floored over 2x10 trusses. I knew the home owners, they did the insulation, dry wall, plumbing, and electrical to save money, and my friend did the shell. And around here, only need a sparky on the service side of the main. Their bathroom (plumbing) was above the lower, so no big deal.

Get it engineered and drawn up, and do what you can afford on the "over time as you can" plan, and you'll do just fine.

I wish you and yours much good luck, it just takes ambition, gumption, and some extra money even if you have to go down to one plate at dinner instead of second helpings. In the long run..........................

Mark

I did it 5 years ago. Took off the old roof completely down to the first story. Then set a second story on top of that. I had a crew to do the major structural work and I finished it from there. My original upstairs was not very high and had the pitch of the roof to deal with in the room now I have a full and very useful upstairs. I can see where people do say its too expensive and not worth it but it worked for me in my situation. Moving was not an option and to rebuild completely would have been minimum 3 or more likely 4 times the price.

Around me its cheaper to go up than to expand the foot print, property tax wise. For some reason asphalt driveways are considered "temporary", which I don't understand and concrete drives are permanent. Bottom line by me, permanent foot print costs more than going up. Go figure.

Mark

People usually build "up" when they don't own enough property to build "out".

Back about 15 years ago when we decided to build, we thought it would save dollars and we could build more house for less $$ by building what is basically a 2 story house. It is really a one story built on what is referred to as a daylight basement. One side is open, but rear of the house is underground -essentially built into the side of a hill. While it has its advantages, we pretty much live upstairs, and lower level is mostly storage, and garage space. Basically lower level is half unfinished space with a two bay garage, mechanicals - furnace water heater, softener, and storage, and remainder is two bedrooms, small bath, and one room we wanted to have as somewhat of a game room with pool table. Upstairs is living space, one full bath, bedroom, half bath, and utility room, with another two bay garage (never too much garage space, and I was sick of vehicles sitting outside in the weather). Ended up never using the game room area, and now the two of us are living in a 3800 sq ft 2 level house (probably a good problem to have really). Most likely if we had it do do over, we would have simply planned as if it were the two of us, and built a slightly larger one level home, but hindsight is 20/20, and too late now, and it works. We have made some changes since on some things such as ripping out a worthless whirlpool tub (does anyone really ever use those?), and rearranged a few things. But all in all, there are days we never go downstairs, unless it is to take something down to store, retrieve something from a freezer there or bring something upstairs that we have stored in one of the two spare bedrooms or on a shelf. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, so weigh everthing when making the decision. As time goes on, I bet you find yourself spending most of your time on one level though. I know once you have the additional space you will wonder how you lived without it, but you adjust. We basically raised two kids in a 1400 sq ft house, living in town at the time on a 100x120 ft. lot with neighbors all around me. I still cannot imagine how or why I did that as long as I did, considering I was raised in the country, and now back in the country with closest neighbor about a mile away. One thing is for certain, there is no such thing as the perfect house. No matter how you build or remodel, there will always be something you wish you had done or not done.

I would attempt nothing without professional input. Your story sounds encouraging.

Ten years ago when we moved into our present house, we thought nothing of climbing a flight of stairs to our "bonus room". Ten years later, after three knee replacements, one back surgery and one heart attack (between the wife and I) later, it doesn't seem like such a good idea.

You already got some good advice here, but age is a consideration as well.

no,..but neighbor down the road took his 2 story farm house and made a nice looking ranch out of it....

A couple houses near me took the roof off, added a second story and installed the roof again with a crane. Look nice,haven't talked to them.

That's the way I'd go if I was gonna do anything. I'm not getting any younger and adding something that would cause me to have to climb stairs would be the last thing I'd do.

It wouldn't take much of a windfall for me to build a whole new house. We've been getting prices around for my son. The local lumber yard has those house plan kits. We can get a nice 1200 and some odd square foot ranch with a 24x24 attached garage,unfinished,for just over $25,000. The finish kit for the interior is around $7000. That doesn't include the kitchen or bathroom.
We got the estimate for a walkout basement and garage foundation this morning. That came in at just over $13,000. It'd sure be nice to have something new instead of something that been remodeled several times and still heats like a meat locker with a screen door.

If you have the as built framing plans I'd start there.

I'd look and see if the existing ceiling can support a live load. If its not framed to support a live load I'd probably punt and go out not up.

Identify load carrying walls.

Sketch an addition. Plan on re-sketching it 20 times and coming back to the original.

I usually go camping for a week or 2 each time my wife wants to go bigger. We get home and the 1400 square foot home is a mansion.

Plan it so a small elevator (Person lift) can be add. Good luck but your thoughts about stairs could change before you get them build. Don't ask why I know.

If you or your wife are over 40 yrs. old, don't even think about adding anything with a stairway.

Go for it man. I added an entire house on top of my existing house. My place was built on the side of a hill like a walk out basement one side completely buried two sides sloped and the other at the lower grade and framed with wood. the three sides with dirt are 12" block filled with cement and rebar. The guy who started my house liked to over build and my ceiling choices instead of being just rafters we're actually floor joists is for a future second floor.

I hired a good framer and in one week it went from the roof being torn off to the roofback on. we did however put rubber roofing on the floor to protect me in case of a rainstorm after the original roof was torn off. the new walls and rafters or installed and I put a bigger ranch house on top of my existing house adding about 2000 square feet. It's not a project for you and your buddies to tackle. Get a pro. I hired out all framing siding roofing drywalling/taping and trim. I pretty much did all the mechanical heating plumbing and electrical myself. My dad who is a retired carpenter was in valuable on the project. I also had a 16 year old son of my buddy that I hired to help me. He learned a pile and it toughened him up.

It was alot cheaper to go up than out. I still have all my services laundry etc on the second floor. I also have a ground level entrance on the second floor so I wasn't concerned with climbing steps all the time.

Wow I was using my phone to voice type that and it got messed up a little.

GO OUT NOT up. you will regret stairs later on. make everything handicap eligible. i am lifting house now and putting basement under existing and it will also be handicap eligible. no way would i go up. good luck

Well, good luck just the same. People do it all of the time. A new house goes up, very few 2x6 wall studs, they are 2x4. Those floors overhead aren't 2x4's, they're 2x8 or 2x10 to support waterbeds, filled bathtubs, route plumbing, etc. Ad those walls up there are 2x4's supporting roofing trusses. I have no idea why I even questioned when my friend, a construction contractor by trade did it. That's how new homes are built, with supporting walls on the first floor, and either supporting walls or screw jacks for support in the basements for direct support under the first floor supporting walls that are under the second floor supporting walls that are under the roof trusses. Supporting exterior walls from the foundation up, supporting interior walls (and/or jacks) from the basement floor up to the roof trusses. That's important so have no sagging or collapsing.

I don't know how old you are, but do you remember a catastrophic accident during a New Year celebration, I think in Kansas City in the late '70's or early '80's at I believe a brand new Holiday Inn hotel? Was about Midnight and people were counting down, and they had the suspended walkways hanging from the roof, I think three or four stacked parallel over each other. As the night progressed, people began filling the walkways, standing around celebrating. Every person added weight, and as they filled up, suddenly it all collapsed hurting hundreds, killing a lot of people. When they looked into it, what had happened is that the walkways were designed so that there would be several huge rods, struts supported by the overhead roof trusses that were continuous from the trusses, through each walkway down to the lowest walkway. That's how it was engineered. The reason that it failed and collapsed was that the builder hung the highest walkway from the support strut, cut the strut, bolted it. Then hung the next walkway from the above walkway, not continuous from the roof as designed, and then the next walkway, and so on. The continuous struts from the ceiling supports down through and to the lowest walkway weren't there. When the builder cut the struts, threaded them, put nuts on to support the walkways, the next walkway hung required moving the strut over, and the next, and the next until when they got to the bottom, the struts were all offset and using only the flimsier, thinner metal of the walkway above them for support, and so on, and so on all the way up. By the time the support reached the top walkway, there wasn't much support from the top walkway rails. Put all of that human weight on all of those walkways, and struts for the top walkway to the roof supports held, but the struts for the supports to the second walkway just below the top, ripped through the top walkway metal, and down it all came hurting and killing a lot of people. My point? Continuous DIRECT support from the ground to the top, or from the top down if its hanging. People do it all of the time, and so long as its done correctly...

Mark

My son had a neighbor put on a second story. Now he can't sell the house because he has more money in it than it's worth. It's much cheaper to go sideways than up. Not to menition good chance you will get rain and no roof on existing house.

As for me, the older I get the less I want to climb stairs.

it could work ,, did for us in 1984 ,, kinda , this is a long story ,that covers what I did .. history of house is like this ,, 1930, 2 rooms built over a coal cellar,34x16,/1940 house foot print increased 34 x32 ,,.dug out original basement and added more basement under addition ,consisting of dining room ,bathroom , bedroom , kitchen , with a 3/12pitch on one side and a 4/12, on front , sure made odd duck house,,. so I bought the whole place for 30 k ,with 2 barns and 27acres in 1984,tore out floor of basement and increased head room to 86 inches,got a 10 inch concrete curb all around base of 1930band 1940 walls rebared floor ,wall and curb holds perfectly //tore off the hideous roof in june and 2 weeks later had all dried in a bedroom suit and bath, upstairs centered over 60 percent of house,..what is unique about this house is that it transformed in one year as the ugliest house to the most beautiful house around ,.the center roof line runs opposite of original and has 8/12 pitch sitting on 3ft walls .the bedroom ceiling cathedral style and is nearly 15 ft hi in center.. one side upstairs has centered a 4/12 pitch shed slope over the 8ft bathroom dormer ,. then the existing pitch was corrected to 4/12 that vallyed and tied into into the lower ends of the new 8/12 pitch and made a nice cross gable roof line finish, .. all this load worked very well until 1990 when we came out 8 feet to both bedrooms downstairs this added about 200 sq ft to each bedroom and also 6x6 ft closets for each bedroom ,, essentially was a total length north wall addition , with 2ft inset for the closets ,with a 10/12 pitch round turrent in the girls bedroom complete with a circle raised ovaled ceiling . the boys bedrooms had a skylite and a3/12 cathedral ceiling in the new section ,.I knockt out the north bedroom walls on both bedrooms leaving about 12feet under the upstairs ,, the above bedroom floor cantilevered some 3 feet beyond the walls ,. , which kinda held the load just fine , but one day after about 3 years my wife heard a tremendous KApow ! I could not find the source, that winter I noticed crackt drywall corners in critical areas the 65 year old oak 2x8 basement beams were sagging somewhat,,. I jackt up the joists and stabilizes the basement ceiling supports ,, except for 3 extra support posts and a wall making a basement reading / game room ,, all is well downstairs ,, but the 12 ft north wall is begging to have 3feet of the wall restored to better handle the load ,,. the only indicater is the closet doors upstairs seem to drag a bit on the carpet ,. I kinda thought I was asking a lot out of the 60 yr old pine rafters and vertical oak 1x lumbers for the gable ends,. but I thought all would be forgiveable since it was MY HOUSE , and no one would sue me ,,. and to date all has been forgivable and workable,.probably a building inspector today would flag me,, but in all honesty in this county ,if no new footers are needed to expand the house footprint ,. one can still build a upstairs on to their home without a permit .. BUT, if a bank loan is involved that is what will trigger a building inspector ,,.and ritefully so ,.

(quoted from post at 21:15:03 01/19/16) I did it 5 years ago. Took off the old roof completely down to the first story. Then set a second story on top of that. I had a crew to do the major structural work and I finished it from there. My original upstairs was not very high and had the pitch of the roof to deal with in the room now I have a full and very useful upstairs. I can see where people do say its too expensive and not worth it but it worked for me in my situation. Moving was not an option and to rebuild completely would have been minimum 3 or more likely 4 times the price.

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Have a similar situation, but on less than half of the upstairs area. There are two bedrooms up and a full bath between on one side of where the stairs come up and a much smaller and lower ceiling area on the other, essentially a long low, narrow room with a small window at the end. The house is a T shape and this area is a lower roof height, it's the leg of the T. House was build in 1947.

My idea was to take the roof off this entire section and extend the side walls out to the place where the first floor walls are, gaining about 3-4 feet on each side of the knee walls in the original area. I'd intend to make those side walls a full 8 ft. high, instead of the 7' high walls that's on the bedrooms and bath area. The gable end would be rebuilt also but would not use brick on it but just square it off at the first floor level and use a nice low/no maintenance siding all around. The new roof would be higher than the old so that would have to be tied in to the old.

We'd intend to use it as a new master bedroom with a private bath and some closet space! First floor bath is just below this area. Since floor joists are already there, electric is already there (would need some new circuits of course), vent stacks are there, and the foundation is already supporting that second floor it would be much cheaper than building out (I've done that on our first house, ultimately paid the same for the addition, that doubled the size of the house, as we did for the original house). One bonus is no building permits required and no inspections to slow things down in our county. I live in the township, zoned rural residential.

Just need the money and time to do it... might have to be yet another retirement project.