Update on Hydro Trans...........

Goose · Jan 1, 2016

As I recall, a month or so ago I mentioned on this forum that I had a 24hp Poulan garden tractor with hydrostatic drive problems. Whenever the pedal was pushed for either forward or reverse, it would just make a lout buzzing noise and not move.

I stopped at a large local small engine place, (I've bought a couple of Stihl chainsaws there) and asked one of the counter men if he had any ideas. As soon as he found I wasn't working on an ultra high end, professional grade unit, he became openly disdainful. When I mentioned the unit had only 320 hours on it, he replied that that's about all those things last. I mentioned I had run an identical one well over a thousand hours and it was still going strong he subtly made known the conversation was over. I left, swearing never to darken their door again.

I put the unit up on jacks in my shop and dropped the transaxle out of it, figuring if nothing more I'd get the exact model number and maybe search ebay.

To make a long story short, all that was wrong was the brake was stuck. It had sat through enough wet weather so a couple of parts in the brake mechanism rusted enough to stick. Cleaned and lube the brake parts, and with it sitting on saw horses I put a drill on the input shaft. Worked fine. Re-installed it in the tractor and it's working great.

Outside of my labor, the only cost in the deal was the small engine place lost a customer.

markct · Jan 1, 2016

Well myself I would pass on that info to the mechanic next time I saw him, doubt it is a common occurrence so he may very well have been unaware of it happening. And nowadays with consumer grade small equipment low hour life expectancy is not at all uncommon. Not the shops fault, they didn't design it. The shop very likely could have had a few of those in that were cooked and wore out so the mechanic relayed his experience to you, and I doubt there is much repairs possible inside them, especially at shop rate, maybe cost effective to do yourself but not for them thus that's where his knowledge base ended. I wouldn't blame him for that, but definitely would let him know what I found as it will help others in the future, just as you did here

Dean · Jan 1, 2016

I wouldn't. I'd simply let them destroy their business however they see fit to do so.

Dean

Zachary Hoyt · Jan 1, 2016

I went to a local small engine shop a few years ago to get the part that holds the blade on a push mower. The guy gave me a long spiel on the evils of ethanol and why I should buy his special gas additive to deal with it, then he insisted on sharpening the blade and reinstalling it on the mower, both of which I could have done myself. I didn't look under the deck but later when I was mowing with it I realized it seemed to be unhappy so I looked underneath and found out he had installed the blade upside down so the lift wings were hitting the ground on high spots. He was the owner of the shop, too. I have never been back there and will never go. I figure I can mess things up in the comfort of my own shop more easily than take them to someone else to mess up.
Zach

oldtanker · Jan 1, 2016

(quoted from post at 09:20:57 01/01/16) As I recall, a month or so ago I mentioned on this forum that I had a 24hp Poulan garden tractor with hydrostatic drive problems. Whenever the pedal was pushed for either forward or reverse, it would just make a lout buzzing noise and not move.

I stopped at a large local small engine place, (I've bought a couple of Stihl chainsaws there) and asked one of the counter men if he had any ideas. As soon as he found I wasn't working on an ultra high end, professional grade unit, he became openly disdainful. When I mentioned the unit had only 320 hours on it, he replied that that's about all those things last. I mentioned I had run an identical one well over a thousand hours and it was still going strong he subtly made known the conversation was over. I left, swearing never to darken their door again.

I put the unit up on jacks in my shop and dropped the transaxle out of it, figuring if nothing more I'd get the exact model number and maybe search ebay.

To make a long story short, all that was wrong was the brake was stuck. It had sat through enough wet weather so a couple of parts in the brake mechanism rusted enough to stick. Cleaned and lube the brake parts, and with it sitting on saw horses I put a drill on the input shaft. Worked fine. Re-installed it in the tractor and it's working great.

Outside of my labor, the only cost in the deal was the small engine place lost a customer.

Wife's boss won't touch them things except for tune ups. Problem is he gets one like yours in and can repair it cheap the word gets out and then next ten that come in the transmissions are shot and now instead of having 1 happy customer he has 10 angry ones. One study showed that the average happy customer told 3 people. The average angry one 10.

The cheap riders are designed to last about 5 years. Say 1/2 hour a week for about 26 weeks a year. Even at an hour it's way less than 320 hours. Sure some last longer but the average homeowner with the great lack of knowledge among them today, abuse them and they just don't last. Why do you think that the trannies are not serviceable on a lot of them? Heck can't even add fluid to em. Now take someone who is familiar with machinery and they can take one of the cheap riders and mow 3 times as much and not run too fast for conditions and get 10 years out of the and a lot of hours.

Makes sense for the shop to stay away from those things. Most customers are not going to like to hear that it's going to cost them 500 or more for a new tranny plus labor.

Rick

Goose · Jan 1, 2016

Wasn't what the guy did or didn't tell me that riled me, it was his attitude.

I read somewhere once, "Samson was a piker; he only killed a thousand men with the jawbone of an azz. Every day ten times that many sales are killed with the same weapon".

I read that maybe 40 years ago and it's stuck with me ever since.

Janicholson · Jan 1, 2016

Were it me, I would discuss the issue with the owner/manager of the franchise/dealer. (assuming that it was an asset to the community) and improve the customer response, and profitability. A stance of superiority from the counter personnel really does not work. Jim

ajl · Jan 1, 2016

Small engine repair shops are as extinct as the dinosaurs around here. Glad you found the problem. I just sold my 20 yr old JD LX 176 lawn tractor. Still ran good but had some intermitant problems with the starter.

SimonRidout · Jan 1, 2016

I am unfamiliar with the detailed workings of hydrostatic transmissions, despite having Stiga 320 mower. Advice on the action required to keep it working for a long life would be appreciated. I try to accelerate gently, avoid sudden moves between forwards and reverse and raise the blades if it is struggling. Is there anything else that I should be doing and/or avoid.

moresmoke · Jan 1, 2016

So you were talking to one of the counter men... People that know how to fix stuff are not paid to stand at a counter. The attitude is still not excusable, but you were not talking to the right person.

Dean · Jan 1, 2016

Proper maintenance.

Hydrostatic trasmissions are built to close tolerances and are NOT tolerant of dirty or improper oil.

Dean

jimg.allentown · Jan 1, 2016

As already stated, you talked to the wrong guy. A counterman is just that- a counterman. If he had any REAL knowledge or skill, he would not be at that counter. He would be in the shop making twice as much money. What he knows is repeated - usually out of context - from what he may have overheard from the shop.

I would talk to his supervisor about his attitude. After all, small engine shops and places to get your parts are getting less and less common. I live in a metropolitan area of over 1 million population. There are only THREE places that I can get small engine parts around here. As much as I may not like any one of them, I would not burn the bridge. Some day, I may need to get something from them.

Dean · Jan 1, 2016

"As already stated, you talked to the wrong guy."

Could be but the owner hired him and put him in a position where he would constantly interface with the public.

One can delegate authority but one cannot delegate responsibility.

Dean

J.Wondergem · Jan 1, 2016

(quoted from post at 14:56:32 01/01/16) "As already stated, you talked to the wrong guy."

Could be but the owner hired him and put him in a position where he would constantly interface with the public.

One can delegate authority but one cannot delegate responsibility.

Dean

He was trained to run customers away. The place that wants more business will accommodate someone so they will buy from them again. Or is that too simple.

pete 23 · Jan 1, 2016

It's all about being civil. If you don't know what is wrong just say, I don't really know. This guy may even be the boss, owner, mechanic, I don't know. Most small engine shops I ever knew of were a one man operation. Never talk down a customers equipment even if you have your not so good opinions of it. My old boss set me right on that about 60 years ago. As far as hydrostatic drive transmissions on lawn equipment, some are sealed, ball slinging mechanisms and no relation to the highly polished piston, slipper skirt ones we deal with in tractors, skid steers, combines etc. Like any piece of equipment, TLC goes a long way in life span.

Geo-TH,In · Jan 1, 2016

A Dr wouldn't hand out advice without seeing the patient. I know a guy who thinks he's an expert, tells people what's wrong with a refrigerator in my rental without even looking at it. The problem was the woman turned thermostat to warmest position and wondered why the ice cream melted.

Sounds like some people are more interested in selling a new mower than fixing an old one.

Like you I don't trust people, do my own work instead.

Russ from MN · Jan 1, 2016

Most cheaper lawn tractors have sealed transaxles, not much you can do to them. I suppose you could take it apart and change the fluid, but I have never heard of anyone doing it. We have 2 Husqvarna's like that, both going strong!

wilson ind · Jan 1, 2016

Rebuilt a koler 301 for a friend and close friend of my son. Recalling how tight money can be for folks with kids and things today I asked what he had to trade for labor. He had a sears rider with hydro he had tried to fix. I E a box of parts. The engine ran well and mower was in good shape except hydro. Local big junk yard puts all decent lawn equipment in one area, selling parts. Bough hydro for thirty bucks I take off. Now have a good mower to sell. Asked junk yard guy what it hydro is no good. Just keep getting another one. no refunds.

flying H · Jan 1, 2016

Gee Goose I'm sorry I didn't see your first post.. I had the same thing happen to my Husky 2 years ago. Just made a growl like gears not meshed .. called a local guy that works on mowers in spare time.. he said loosten the brake and then try it.. Almost didnt believe him.. but tried it and its still working today.

Goose · Jan 1, 2016

Yeah. If I'd known that, I could have fixed it without dropping the entire transaxle.

T.R.K. · Jan 1, 2016

I read everyone elses' comments. There is another side to this story and its the parts counter person's.

Where I work on lawn equipment, people are all the time wanting us to diagnose their problems so they can fix it themselves. I don't mind helping, but if I have no idea, why waste time guessing?

It sounds like you were expecting the guy to tell you exactly what to fix and he hadn't even seen the unit. It also sounds like you hadn't even looked at it yourself.

I bet he has seen those units fail at about that number of hours, too. I have seen several Tuff Torq axles die between 300 and 400 hours. And even if the shop worked on it, if that brake jams up again, are you gonna be mad because 'He just worked on it?'

So now you make him the bad guy because there was no way he could help you.

Batel · Jan 1, 2016

(quoted from post at 10:30:40 01/01/16) Wasn't what the guy did or didn't tell me that riled me, it was his attitude.

I read somewhere once, "Samson was a piker; he only killed a thousand men with the jawbone of an azz. Every day ten times that many sales are killed with the same weapon".

I read that maybe 40 years ago and it's stuck with me ever since.

Many years ago I went to my local home improvement store looking for help on a project. Didn't know exactly what I needed so I asked at the counter. This guy proceeded to belittle my lack of knowledge in front of all the other customers. A couple of months later he came in the auto parts store where I worked. He had questions, really simple questions that told me he really didn't know which end of his car the gas went in. Perfect opportunity to grind him to dust....I didn't take it, I patiently answered his questions, took his money and hoped he learned something of superior customer service that day.

Goose · Jan 1, 2016

How many times do I have to say, IT WAS THE GUY'S FREAKIN' ATTITUDE THAT IRKED ME, not what was or wasn't said or done by either one of us.

When I was in automotive service management, one of the first things I learned was to never, ever, look down your nose at a customer's vehicle. You may think a customer's vehicle is a piece of junk, but if you verbalize your opinion do you expect him to agree with you?

I once fired a technician over an attitude problem. He was the best tech in the shop, but I simply couldn't overlook his disdain for customers. He was simply never able to grasp the concept that the customer base was what paid his paycheck.

onefarmer · Jan 1, 2016

Just a few years ago I went to Autozone asking for plug wires for my 78 Pinto. Counter guy sneered and said isn't it time to junk it yet? After I dressed him down I left and never returned.

Frank A · Jan 1, 2016

I guess my area must be different. One place I know the shop techs would ask the counter guy questions. I'm not sure why he wasn't in the shop maybe health.

Update on Hydro Trans...........

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