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No wonder the younger generation is in trouble.

D

Dick2

Well-known Member
My wife was watching the news last night and the education experts think that the high school education us older generation received is equivalent to what the kids of today learn in college, without any practical experience in how to work.

Sounds like the parents of those kids need to be taken to the woodshed for allowing the schools and home situation to degrade so much.
 
I agree. Our high school has awards day, and I swear they're giving a quarter of the classes straight A's. Many of these teachers just tell their kids "oh just go look it up on-line" for studying time. How lazy.
 
Not sure how old You are; But at age 44 I hear stories from relatives all the time about how things are taught nowadays, & I cant say I like it. This would never fly; but CELL PHONES SHOULD BE UNDER A NATIONAL BAN IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL TO START WITH!!! Was in a Texas Roadhouse Restaurant couple of days ago. A family of 4 across the isle both parents on cell phones, & both children on something electronic. I did not hear more than 10 words out of anyone at that table in the 30 +/- minutes they were there. My parents would have had a fit if they could have seen it. I lay You odds that the 2 adults wont even care about the report card these children get. All they will want is to be left alone on their cell phones. Its sad, its sickening; but its life as we know it today. Those kids will probably be disciplined, kicked out of school more than once in their life, & it wont be the parents... OH NO it will be the governments fault.

All they learn in college is Anti-Americanism, & how to be "good" communist. University of Berkeley Student Body Leaders banned the American Flag in the student Hall this year; but the Mexican flag remained in the Hall. Federal Law should outlaw that when You receive Federal Funds. WHERES THE EDUCATION IN THAT COLLEGE??? Spent berating the USA!!! GIVE ME A BRAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Parents should be demanding better schools and less extra-curricular activities - but parents are demanding the opposite.

Parents today want their kids to have an easy life. Our generation worked (even though we might have complained about it), we scrimped by with little or went without, and were disciplined for unacceptable behavior. Through it all most of us learned how to do things and be good citizens.
 
Maybe y'all need to change the channel. Perhaps you went to an exceptional high school, but they sure didn't teach calculus and differential equations in mine.
 
The parents have zero say. There is no local control of the schools anymore. It's driven from big brother and they have a special interest agenda to push on everyone.

Moreover - and I see this all the time is - employers now see a 4yr college diploma as what a high school degree was 30 years ago. It's all about checking a box. Nobody gets a square interview anymore. You don't have the degree, you can't check the box, no interview - door is shut.

After working for a number of years, I was presented this at my work place. Without a 4yr degree, my promotion path was ended. My boss said, don't feel bad, he couldn't advance further without a Master's degree. We both went back to college and got our respective degrees. My view was - if the piece of paper is what opens the door, then I'd better get it and so I did. And paid for it as I went, graduated debt free. No student loans. I was on the school part of the day, work the rest of the day to pay for it scholarship.

I see, have seen a lot of folks who most all are much smarter than me. They work their arse off to pay for a nice new 4x4 truck. They work much harder, put in more hours to pay for it than the effort it takes to go to school at night. But that's their priority and I respect it. OTOH - when these same people come crying to me life ain't fair because I don't have a college degree, I don't have much sympathy. I busted my buttox to open doors for me and did without for years to do it. You only have to get a degree once. Trucks wear out and you have to keep working hard to replace them.

I will say his: I would and don't ever treat an employee without a college degree like I got treated my some of those folks. I have much respect for anyone that works and those who can't through no fault of their own.

But.....

If you are a young person, my advice is to find a way to go to college or get a good trade. Time and money well spent.

Remember, 99.5% of ALL PhDs can't thread a square baler. That's a documented FACT....... somewhere..... ;-)

Bill
 
Our sons grew up to learn to do well in school. Both went to college and did well. The oldest overcame a severe accident where he ALMOST lost his arm while in college and went on to do well. Both work very hard now. One farms and the other has his own business with several employees. Both are married and have their own homes. One sawed his home out and built it with help from his friends. the other bought a pre Civil War house and is restoring it while they live in it.
They grew up on our small farm and worked helping me when I asked them.
A friend of our oldest son came to live with us when his parents pretty much abandoned him. He had been to school 30 days the previous year. My wife took him to school every day the next year and when he graduated, the principle gave him a hug on stage because he was so proud of him. Now he is doing very well working and has his own small farm.
All that being said, parents need to set examples for their kids. My wife and I grew up on small farms and learned to work from our parents. We also went on to college.

Sorry to brag so much, but we feel very fortunate that things have turned out so well for our sons.
I do blame parents for letting their kids sit and play on electronic devices and not teaching them skills and how to work.
Our two grandkids are learning to work in the garden and take care of animals and we are teaching them that when they want money for something, they can earn it by helping us do jobs on our place. Seems to be working.
Sorry for the long brag post.
Richard in NW SC
 

The problem is that having a college degree is proof of nothing other than you went to college. I have seen college graduates that couldn't string words together in a fashion coherent enough to be read. Or that can't spell at all or that can't grasp new ideas. Perhaps it was my misfortune to run into a bunch of these people, but to me a college degree means nothing unless you're an MD, DVM, DDS or an engineer. Outside of that, all the art history/womens studies/sports related degrees are meaningless. The guy down the road with the Phd can't function without his neighbors to fix everything he owns and the Amish to build it all. But he's referred to a "Dr. Soandso". Ridiculous.
 
There is an obvious advantage today for a young person with inter-personal communication skills. Our electronic devices have discouraged face-to-face communication, and people of all ages have lost the ability to talk directly to another person.

Many of the tasks we were trained to complete are now utterly useless, thanks to the tools we have today. I never learned how to prepare a team of horses for farm work or do calculations on a slide rule, either.

One of my coworkers's daughter recently earned her college Associates degree- the week before she graduated from high school! Advanced Placement classes allowed her to take virtually all college credit classes through the local community college while she also bore the burden of her normal high school work. And, it cost her parents no tuition at all! I'm not sure that rushing your life by two years is always great, it certainly is not for everyone. I had a lot of fun and learned a lot those first two years away at college.

I think what we really have to worry about is the chasm between the two ends of the spectrum. Those who work to take the AP courses and get college credit will do well in whatever they choose to do later in life. Those who take the average path and can communicate with adults to determine the requirements for advancement will be fine. The children not pushed to compete by inattentive parents with many distractions will struggle to keep up, at best.
 
And sure wasn't the current generation of parents that set this system up - they have to reverse the actions of the previous generations. The "greatest generation" birthed the baby boomers or the "GIMME Generation" that have borrowed more money and wasted more resources on BS then the rest of the world combined.
 
I have been saying for years that in the US, the further we advance technologically, the more we regress sociologically.
 
I have to say it is true, and as far as I am concerned our schools and education system has been on the downhill slide for 50 years (at least), and it could be more, but I went to school during the 60's and 70's, and witnessed it, along with raising two myself. It is getting worse with each coming year. My wife and I joke with the two we raised on where they went to school, however I know it is not necessarily where they went to school, but rather the schools in general, and society for allowing it to become what it has become (yes some schools are better than others). I recall an episode going to the school over my youngest being assigned to "ASD" or after school detention over he and another boy getting into an argument and our boy threw a pencil at the other, and he was assigned one hour of ASD (really, what a joke). I recall the principal having a paddle hanging on the wall, and I asked if he ever used that "tool" any longer, and he stated that they could no longer use the paddles (apparently he did at one time in his career). I know for a fact that discipline method worked (did for me anyhow), but don't agree that the ASD, ISS, time out, or other methods today do any good other than to pass the problem along to the next generation, and it is degrading with each coming generation. I know today that most schools now have some sort of police officers assigned and in the schools at all times (the ones around here are the type that carry one bullet in their shirt pocket, and that is probably best considering). Seriously? We used to carry knives to school, and guns in our vehicles. If things got out of hand the principal had no problem taking care of it with a 2 foot board he fashioned himself, and most teachers also had the same tool in their desks. Some take offense when I place the blame on the school systems, and I know it is society as a whole that has created the school systems (mess) we have. It infuriates me that each year I pay more and more taxes to build bigger (note I do not say better) buildings for the local schools, yet the quality of graduates continue to decline at about the same rate the taxes increase each year. Is there any wonder why there are so many discipline problems after they graduate high school, if they indeed graduate? There is no real discipline in youth, so why should they expect discipline when they are grown? Nuff said, off soap box for now.
 

The only reason the education system got this way is because we all left it up to someone else to take care of it. That someone else is our government, and our government is us. Not every school district is the same though, so it's not fair to lump them all together, or put every student in one category. If you are worried about the education system in your community you should go to school board meetings and let your voice be heard.

If I had it my way I would have school in session all year. No summers off. And change the curriculum so that by the time the students finish twelve years of education it would be equivalent to twelve years of regular school and two to three years of community collage. That way they'd be better prepared for higher education.
 
Let me respond to 'Parents have zero say.'
Pulling the kids out of the school and homeschooling will tell the schools a lot.
Seems to me that parents want to have these children and then pay someone else to raise and teach them. This is where the culture has taken a very bad turn. It's the parents' responsibility not the schools.
We've been homeschooling for 11 years now. Every time I hear another public school horror story, it reemphasizes our great decision to be the parents our children need us to be.
 
I would imagine you are well aware of what a mess the education system is in AZ, and now they are talking more cuts. Kind of explains why Arizonians vote the way they do!
 
Dick I agree It seems The social situation has changed. Many local kids just don't know what to do with anything. I always said a 19 year old from WW1 WW2 was more mature than a 25 year old today. Sometimes I wonder if its just our perception???
 
Really? I went to a school that wasn't really a "top" school, we had calculus? I had differential equations also. We were doing quadratic equations in middle school. It obviously wasn't required, but it was available. But I sure didn't go to a one room school house. Graduated in a class of 900.
 
Unfortunately, for most parents, homeschooling is the only option for those who wish to avoid the public schools. I am on the down hill side of raising seven children. We have never sent them to the public schools. It has been worth the effort. My older children also have avoided the abundant colleges. They all earn a good living with out the degree. My youngest boy at thirteen uses the tractor and loader and cleans out the stables and does most of the chore work around the place. I encourage all parents to not turn their children over to the public schools for indoctrination. Yes, it is indoctrination, not education that happens in the public schools.
 
Our education system is behind most of the advanced countries, the kids need to keep up the pace and add the mechanical on their own, no way we want the schools to roll back the education.
 
20 years ago the Kansas Supreme Court ruled that local financing of the schools was "unconstitutional". It was then up to the state to determine tax and financing instead of local control. I said then instead of one or two school districts screwing up and making a mess of their budgets the new system would ensure that every school in state was going to be in trouble. Biggest budget crisis in Kansas today is the financing of the schools and the Supreme Court is still sticking their nose in it. Why the **** am I paying taxes for the school district in Wichita that decided to offer free daycare and build swimming pools?
 
Take a look at an old test that kids had to pass to go from the 8th grade to high school. I'd defy most kids with a college education to pass one.
 
You might be right, school was hard, then got soft, and is getting back to hard again.

I had it real easy compared to my kids now.
 
I recently read an exam that a student was required to pass to graduate from the 8th grade in the late 19th century. Most high school seniors would be hard put to pass it nowadays.

Granted, there was one question on how many bushels of ear corn would a wagon of certain dimensions hold, but most of it was pretty darned serious general knowledge not related to any occupation.

I did my elementary school in a one room country schoolhouse in the 1940's, and I remember studying world history (the Spanish Armada comes to mind) in about the 4th grade. How many college grads nowadays have even heard of the Spanish Armada unless they're a world history major? There weren't any social media distractions, just serious study back then. I recall at 1pm every day, we listened to a 15 minute religious program on the radio. Plus, travelling evangelists would occasionally stop and lead us students in hymn singing. (How would that go over today?
 
I was watching an old Danny Thomas Show just the other night. He was speaking to his son's class in school. It was real interesting. He told them that they faced a bigger threat that any previous generation. That threat came from the educational system,from people on the inside trying to mislead them through education.

Can you imagine Hollywood allowing somebody on a highly rated TV show admitting that these days? That speech never would have made it on the air.
 
Obviously these so called education experts have not had to do the math my grandson has to do. So confusing to me. I can come up with correct answer but it's not what they want. Needless to say, adding 2 + 2 does not = 4 these days without some sort of mystical theory behind it...lol
 
I do think the educational system was real crappy for a while, but maybe we wanted it to be easy because we were lazy.

My son is doing college level geometry and physics in 9th grade, my daughter is doing college level social studies in 10th grade. I really think it depends on the school board and principal. We open enroll them in a larger school that is known for that. The local school puts the emphasis on sports and the trades. The kids in that school end up with just meeting the academic minimums. Both of my kids are college oriented, this is because wife and I are degreed and FIL is retired engineering professor. We always let them know that it was expected of them to attend college. What they do after that is up to them.

I wish they would spend more time with learning work in the trades, as I grew up, but they are just not interested in that.
 
I'd agree with that. What my children were doing in math at a very early grade level, I always feared was too far beyond them. Concepts I didn't learn until highschool. But a funny thing happened - they surprised me, learned it, and understood it.

Funny that most people in my area are all up in arms over "common core".

I'm not a proponent of the program myself as I don't feel the federal government should be involved in education at the level they're trying to be - but most people I know completely overlook the constitutional implications, and object simply because the standards are set too high!

Never in my life did I expect to hear so many seemingly well educated people complain so loudly that their children's school work was too demanding - that they're being taught TOO much.

There are a LOT of arguments against common core, but teaching to a more advanced level shouldn't be one of them - in my book anyways.
 
The reason education has been "dumbed down" is because our society has had it too good too long. There is no motivation out of too many homes and our schools are having to deal with under motivated kids suffering from too much being given them. Too many want a "no hard work" education. If you disagree then explain how Asian students who are hungry for an education are excelling in our public schools.
 
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y

SOOOO much money for "education" goes to creating cushy environments and facilities that do NOTHING to further education.

A kid should be able to learn just as well in a cinderblock cell as they are in some of the 100 million dollar shrines to stupidity and corruption that they're building around here.

If we spent the savings on better - non-unionized (as in pay by performance, not tenure) - the results would be staggering.


But - astroturf's nice too.
 
Both of my grand daughters went to school near Battle Creek Michigan. They were enrolled in the local high school,but they went to the Kellogg Center every day for advanced classes. It was interesting at graduation. There were about 25 students or so in each of their classes who attended the center. Very few who did attend were among the top ten honor students. The ones who were honor students had a higher GPA because they were taking easier classes.

I couldn't agree more with you about the vocational classes. We had a choice when I was in school. The students who were college bound took college prep classes,the rest of us took vocational classes.
 
Their parents hammer it in to them,simple as that. I know a guy who married a Chinese woman who had a son when he married her. The kid came home with a B on a math paper one time. She grilled him to no end every night for two weeks after that. The guy said that her reason was that over there,only the top 1% succeed,the rest wind up as street sweepers. At least that was what she honestly believed.
 
Spook, although some high schools teach calculus and even differential equations, that's hardly the rule. And I doubt the percentage of students who get calculus in high school has decreased significantly, as the OP would suggest. I would think any secondary school today the size of your old high school would offer calculus to their better students. (My graduating class was exactly fifty.)

When I entered engineering school forty years ago (back when the OP claims secondary schools were so much better), about half of my classmates had to take some pre-calculus math because they didn't score high enough on placement tests to take Calculus I. Many of these same classmates had graduated from expensive private schools as well as from large, urban schools in upper-class neighborhoods.
 
Trades are mostly a thing of the past. I live in an area that thrived on trades because of the rubber industry. Machine shops and small foundries were on every street. You could take a broken shaft, etc. to a machinist and have one made. Lots of other stuff. No More. All done by computer now. If its not CAD they don't know how to do it. The last real machinist in this area dies 2 years ago. Sad to say that has happened to other trades. No one is a scratch baker anymore. They use mixes from big companies and call that scratch baking. Most get the itmes frozen and then bake them in an oven of a fryer and say they are scratch. Shade tree mechanics are a thing of the paast. Nowadays you have to invest thousands in software to be able to repair an automobile. Then the mechannics are mostly replacement artists. Computer tells you what and how to do it. And so on and so forth. Building trades are about the only skilled labor today. Sad reflection on our lives as we knew it to be.
 
Between labor laws and business liability policies most kids can't find any employment other than fast food until they are 18.

Saw some information lately that showed the largest employer in each state. For almost half the states it was walmart. Just how much education is needed to work most retail jobs? What portion of our economy is retail/fast food?

When public education really got rolling was late 1800's as people were trying to get the slightly higher educated factory management and technical jobs developing in the industrial revolution. Most of the population didn't need much education in order to work a factory line somewhere or on the farms of the day. We then increased our technology and needed more financial and research careers.

I think we have come full circle and are back to a position where most jobs just don't need that much education. Not saying these are good jobs though.

Interesting too that in many states the largest employer was a university system. Colleges will take anyone with a diploma and money. How educated the students are when they get there is only a frustration to the professors, the system works better if they have to retake an extra year of courses and pay more tuition in the long run.
And when they get out.... welcome to the world where retail/fast food is the largest sector.
 
I have to disagree with you on that. One of my sons is an engine machinist,the other works in a shop where they're sending him to community college to get his journeyman's machinist card. They've had billboards up wanting to hire machinists. The myth that there are no jobs in some of these fields is just exacerbating the problem. It's like that foolish news story on Yahoo or wherever it was,that named the worst ten fields of study or some such thing. It named agriculture as an obsolete vocation while jobs in agricultural fields are going begging.
 
No Child Left Behind had good intentions, but it really dumbed-down what schools could teach because schools had to make sure the slowest and laziest students would keep up.
 
Homeschooling was considered illegal in a lot of (most) states 30 years ago. Since the early 90s homeschooling is considered legal in all 50 states. Yes, there will generally always be a fight to keep this freedom but the HSLDA has been a strong advocate. The government does not own my children. From what it was 30-40 years ago to now, homeschooling has moved great strides ahead. I disagree that it has become more difficult. I do agree that it will take proactive parents to keep it an open option for all, though. We cannot continue to sit on the sidelines and call ourselves 'victims' of a government and a culture. We can change it.
 
btw, my homeschooled (since she was 4) 17 yo daughter just received her ACT results. Her above average 33 score had absolutely no input from the public school system. I believer her education matches or exceeds the public school system average.
 
I agree. My son hated school but when he got to Voc Tech he really took off. Certified welder and diesel mechanic. Doesn't even come home dirty at night, they provide uniforms and shower along with a state of the art facility. Companies have to provide a good shop and good pay to keep mechanics as a decent one can find work anywhere. Plus he picks up plenty of side work. Other than toys he has no debt. College grads in his class have $30k in student debt and no job in their area of study. I think the counselors gave a lot of them bad advice. Parents too.
 
Yep,everybody thinks their little angel should be a doctor or lawyer and that getting their hands dirty is beneath them. I remember when the bankers son told him he wanted to be an auto mechanic. He gave in,but said not unless he went to a good auto/diesel school.
 
Yes Dick, I am with you. I want to tell you a story that happened to me a few years ago. I was a Teamster and drove truck for a living. Had the good life , Made good money and now retired to Fl and enjoy the good life. I stopped at a Wendy's hamburger joint in Rome NY one day. My bill came to4.80 I gave the girl a 10 dollar bill , she said that I had to wait for the Manager as the cash box was broke. I could see the drawer was open so I said why don't you give me a 5 dollar bill and a pair of dimes ? She said oh I couldn't do that. I said I'll bet you just graduated high school. Yes she said just this June. As the manager came up I said rather disgusted that I would like to have a high school graduate digging around in my cash box that is not smart enough to make change for a 10 dollar bill. The manager lady said I was rude. She said these kids can't help it as they use a computer or calculator. I said Lady I got a 5tth. grade education, Why don't you try me on a 10 dollar bill ? The lady said that a lot of them can't tell time on a regular clock it has to be a digital. I said now I know what an educated darn fool is.
 
.
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several schools in my area used to have a building trades class those that finised the class had a waiting list of people wanting to hire them.
not anymore i don't know why the programs were dropped.
 
There was an explosion of home schooling when many women of Generation X had children and decided they didn't want their children to grow up in daycares like they did. So a LOT of college educated women started home schooling - drawing attention by the government. First there was the "this is a good idea" phase, now they are starting the "regulate it to death" phase.





http://www.postandcourier.com/article/%2F20130217%2FPC16%2F130219223%2F1165%2Fproposed-legislation-prompts-fierce-pushback-from-home-schoolers-across-the-state&fb_action_ids=10151296104033479&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map


http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2015/05/13/efforts-to-regulate-home-schooling-rekindle-controversies.html


http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2008/03/homeschooling-and-parental-rights-under-attack-in-california/
 
Dated material and reference to proposed items that have not changed legislation in any material manner for any state to restrict homeschooling. In fact Nebraska is about to put into place next year wording that eases restrictions.
The media likes to take something that they think is a hot button and stretch it.
As you can see from these accounts, homeschool families are not standing idly by. I love it.
 
Agreed - home schoolers are not sitting back and letting it happen.

But I wonder how it will work when the NEA takes a strong stance against it? When the government is choosing between the wishes of a strong grass roots organization and that of one of the biggest political donors in Washington (27 million in donations in 2015 alone) I wonder which way the shoe will drop - not really.


http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=d000000064


The National Education Association believes that home schooling programs based on parental choice cannot provide the student with a comprehensive education experience. When home schooling occurs, students enrolled must meet all state curricular requirements, including the taking and passing of assessments to ensure adequate academic progress. Home schooling should be limited to the children of the immediate family, with all expenses being borne by the parents/guardians. Instruction should be by persons who are licensed by the appropriate state education licensure agency, and a curriculum approved by the state department of education should be used.

The Association also believes that home-schooled students should not participate in any extracurricular activities in the public schools.

The Association further believes that local public school systems should have the authority to determine grade placement and/or credits earned toward graduation for students entering or re-entering the public school setting from a home school setting

http://www.nea.org/resolutions
 
OK, back in the good old days kids were lucky to get to stay in school through the 8th grade. A lot of people who served in WWII were functionally illiterate and government checks through the 90's had on the back where the payee could make their mark and a place for a witness to sing off.

Then came this thing that we now call the Great Depression. During the Depression the politicians decided that kids had to go to high school. Not for the benefit of the kids but to keep them out of the job market. Now they are pushing school to make a kid attend college for 5-6 years to get a 4 year degree much for the same reason. Keep em out of the work force longer.

IMO the reason the schools are like they are today is because parents were pushed out of the education process. The "whole village to raise an idiot" concept. When a lot of us older guys were in school they begged parents to be part of the PTA. TO take an active hand in their kids education. Then it was decided that they didn't want parents in on it. So parents were pushed out and they didn't really want parents to know what they were teaching kids.

And now colleges are become degree mills. They will tell a kid anything to get em enrolled and to get their money. abundant Arts, dance and so on. They should print a job app on the back of some diplomas for Wal Mart and McDonald's.



Rick
 
(quoted from post at 11:26:56 12/31/15) Take a look at an old test that kids had to pass to go from the 8th grade to high school. I'd defy most kids with a college education to pass one.
Click to expand...

You're right. I've got my grandfather's 4th grade math book. It has algebra and geometry problems that I didn't do until HS.
 
Testing standards keep getting lowered. Every time that you hear a polictician brag about how under them, grades have gone up, they conveniently leave out that the standards were lowered to make their tenure look better. However, we keep going backwards in world ranking. Grades going up as we move backwards? Makes sense to politicians and those that are being dumbed down.

Years ago I used to date a school teacher, and as kids progess grade by grade, Kindergarten through Grade 12, the dumb students get moved along as well, because when say, a Dexter Manley, that was a great football player whom couldn't spell his own name (Why Mike Ditka called him "grapefruit") graduated from school, no teacher wants to be the "one that failed" him or her. Say that you're a 6th grade teacher and you inherit a student that can't spell his or her own name or add 2 + 2, your tendency will want to be to fail the kid, or send him or her back. The problem with that then is that the people that you answer to will want to know why you failed the kid after he or she succeded all the way to your class, making you the failed link. You don't want that to happen, so what do you do? You pass them to the next schlub in line during this government funded "day care".

And by the way, these days kids aren't taught about George Washington or that 2 + 2 = 4, but they are taught that two mommies, two daddies, and solar powered cars are good things, while having a mommy and daddy, especially ones that drive an SUV are evil, even more so if they also own guns and read bibles.

How messed up are children these days? Congress and a certain president whose name I won?t mention, declared that they are still ?dependents? until the age of 26, and how stupid are we? We let them do it. We let them get away with it. We accepted such failure. We should be ashamed of ourselves.

Mark
 
A long read, this thread, but I have a few things to say on the matter.

How important is a college education??? Well, it may open doors for many, but then there are the do-nothing degrees handed out for advanced basket weaving and color coordination. All of that notwithstanding, a college degree does NOT make one a "smart" person. It is the OPPORTUNITY to continue learning and a start on that path. And, some college educated folks are so lacking in practical skills that they could not pour pee out of a boot with the instructions stamped into the heel!

Also, there are still needs for the trades. SOMEBODY has to build the houses. Plumbers will NEVER go out of style. We NEED people to FIX THINGS!!! Someone has to collect the garbage, run the landfill, fix the leaky pipes, repair the wiring, fix the broken cars, and the list goes on.

One final rebuttal......one poster did mention that mechanics are just parts changers, and need thousands of dollars worth of equipment to fix anything. WRONG!!! And on so many levels. Let me say this much on that: electronic systems DO take a lot of expensive equipment to diagnose. However, that does not mean that they tell you what part to change. Equipment only tells you WHICH CIRCUIT HAS A FAULT. Finding the fault and fixing it requires knowledge and training. Not a simple matter of changing parts. Take it from somebody that has been there and done that.
 
Several things I will add. Philadelphia Has almost HALF of it's student population in pilot schools now! They form like a corperation and open a real school. All of the better kids and their parents pull them out of the public system and then the crap really settles to the bottom! Regular schools suck. If you really want to see school as it should be read these books. Ann of Green Gables, Little house on the prairie books, and Find some of the old school books from like the twentys. Scare the bejabbers out of me! And back then it was all supposed to be in your memory box in you noggen.
 
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Dan T in MO
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