- Thread starter showcrop
- Start date
Tom from IL
Member
I am not aware of any manual truck transmission which does not
require the use of the clutch to start and stop. If such a unit exists, I would like to hear about it.
require the use of the clutch to start and stop. If such a unit exists, I would like to hear about it.
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
Well, I suspect the thread was referring to newer trucks (I didn't read it) but I'll stretch it a bit and mention the fluid drive transmissions in some Dodge trucks (and Chrysler Corporation cars) back in the 50's ....... clutch was there but only necessary for shifting and not necessarily used for stopping and starting (although most operators did out of habit since starting out in a higher gear wasn't all that much fun).
Super Trucker
Member
In my own truck I use the clutch to start and stop and that's it . They are a straight cut gear and when you have EVERYTHING in order it slides in gear like a hot knife thru butter. But it takes a person who can drive by feel and sound. This also comes at a price, I just had to replace the clutch because the adjustment ring froze up in place and couldn't be adjusted.
TomA in CA
Member
Put it in deep reduction, stick it in first gear, tic and you are rolling. All upshifts and downshifts from there. Slack off and nudge it out of gear to stop. No clutch necessary.
After a divorce in 1978 found out this farm guy should be driving a truck.
Shifting without a clutch is centered around a 300 RPM range.
Shifting up when you are the top of the RPM range let off the fuel and at the same time take it out gear let the tach drop about 300 RPM and
stick it back in gear.
Reverse it to downshift .
Once you get use to it you will do it by sound and feel.
I would suggest you have it down well before you try it in the mountains.
Shifting without a clutch is centered around a 300 RPM range.
Shifting up when you are the top of the RPM range let off the fuel and at the same time take it out gear let the tach drop about 300 RPM and
stick it back in gear.
Reverse it to downshift .
Once you get use to it you will do it by sound and feel.
I would suggest you have it down well before you try it in the mountains.
Raised on a farm I could shift my dads 1946 chevy no problem with the clutch for start up only. Had a 1970 square back VW 1975 and 74 Dasher, a 1982 K car and my dads 1929 Bulldog Mack. Could slip shift every one of them. Then came the day we were going to town in the chevy and he is sitting there and asks "did you just shift without a clutch?" I'm like sure. Well he flips and starts telling me I will blow up the tranny and on and on. Now this is the four speed with the granny gear. I shifted with the clutch about four more times into town and then sneaked in a couple without. he he Takes a really good ear for musical notes and a steady nerve. A transmission with sloppy linkage is a real challenge. Not that hard once you learn. Actually you can shift a little faster than with the clutch. Cars with syncro trannys are even better. Mack truck way back then used to send a factory guy out to teach the drivers how to shift without when they were moving.
fixerupper
Well-known Member
When I took my CDL driving test the lady who rode with me noted on the test I did not shift with the clutch. As I understand using the clutch is the 'proper' way. This fall the truck I drove during harvest had a newly rebuilt ten speed that was so tight I had to use the clutch for shifting for several days. One evening when I was tired as all get out and driving it from the field to the bin site to park it for the night I was having an awful time with it binding making it really hard to pull out of gear. The next morning when I started it up I discovered I had not disengaged the power divider after pulling out of the field the previous night. (Sigh) The power divider warning light was not working but that is not a valid excuse.
rusty6
Well-known Member
- Location
- East central Sask.
I've heard it works well but I've never had much luck with shifting the IH four speeds without using the clutch. Results in slower shifting
and more gear grinding than I am comfortable with. I'll use the clutch on mine.
and more gear grinding than I am comfortable with. I'll use the clutch on mine.
KCTractors
Member
- Location
- Central Wi
Boy, I'm with you on that one. Maybe after 40+ years of heavy truck driving, I was doing something wrong. I am still driving a tandem truck with a 12' plow and 9' wing and a sander on the back for the local township. I don't use a clutch on that one because it has a Allison Transmission. Really nice for plowing snow.
My farm semi has a ten speed road ranger. The only time I use the clutch is to get it moving and to stop. Using the clutch while shifting actually makes driving more difficult as by the time you double clutch you loose to much speed and you can miss a gear, plus it wears out your leg muscles in a hurry. Its often stated if you miss a gear with a road ranger you have to stop and start over. Not true you can drop two or three gears and continue on. You just have to match the speeds for the lower gears, takes experience. I have some steep hills in my area. The worst one when loaded I have to hit it full throttle 8th gear then drop to 6th then shift to low range and 4th gear to make it up the hill. Takes some good timing with no room for error. Only other option for climbing that hill would be to downshift to 2nd or 3rd at the bottom of the hill and grind up it.
I think thats a custom conversion,
I've seen it somewhere on the 'net.
All it is are lever operated air valves
mounted on the floor instead of normal shift valve.
Basically a step backword IMO, done just
because it's different. Some custom 'show, hot rod,
O/O, just becuz' thing.
And no I'm not slamming it, it's what
they want, so what.
I've seen it somewhere on the 'net.
All it is are lever operated air valves
mounted on the floor instead of normal shift valve.
Basically a step backword IMO, done just
because it's different. Some custom 'show, hot rod,
O/O, just becuz' thing.
And no I'm not slamming it, it's what
they want, so what.
OP
OP
showcrop
Well-known Member
Looks Like TomA is the only one with me on this. So far as the three stick Kenworth goes, as has been said it is just long sticks operating air valves on the floor instead of buttons on the shifter. The International triaxle that I had was an 18 speed. You shift through four then flip one switch then shift through the same four again. When loaded if needed you would "split" each of those eight with the splitter button on the side of the shifter. The guy in the video probably converted his Kitty for fun and show. I bet after a few weeks he converted back to two buttons on the shifter.
CenTex Farmall
Well-known Member
K car with a manual trans?
flying belgian
Well-known Member
I agree with Tom.
If you the owner had 250 tractors hauling freight to the north east including NYC.Would you rather have the clutch that MIGHT begin slipping an need replaced when driver returned to home base having babiedd his truck back an than repaired in home shop or if his drivers floated shifts an some where tore the center out of clutch there buy being dead on road.Consider the consequeinces----he needs to call dispatcher--disptacher has to call receiver-dispatcher has to call shipper of back hall--servise manager has to have tractor toed probably to high priced repair shop-driver has to get overnite room at company expense.Companys reputaation takes a hit for reliability.For me i would require double clutching!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Yep. Not real common but they were built. I've seen 3 or 4.
OP
OP
showcrop
Well-known Member
cs.hess, I can see using the clutch driving OTR, but recently I have been driving a dirt haul, with three intersections and 7 lights in five miles. Shifting with the clutch just ain't happening. By the time your driver learns to float his shifts the chances of a shock that could take out a clutch center would be very low.
Think you're right CJ.That looked to be a fairly new truck,too new to have 3 sticks as delivered from the factory.He sure was busy getting up to speed.Gotta love that 2 handed no hands on the wheel shifting.Just like the old days.The guys that I knew who drove a twin stick put the left arm THREW the wheel to make a 2 stick shift.
I started on a 5X4 2 transmission,
then Macks, only shifted 1 shifter at
a time. Shift 1, then the other, no clutch.
If you shift both at the same time
you can end up w/both in neutral
and can't get back w/o stopping.
Then there was the wore out remote
shift tower, end up w/the ball out of the rails.
Get out and under, line it up, go again.
then Macks, only shifted 1 shifter at
a time. Shift 1, then the other, no clutch.
If you shift both at the same time
you can end up w/both in neutral
and can't get back w/o stopping.
Then there was the wore out remote
shift tower, end up w/the ball out of the rails.
Get out and under, line it up, go again.
guido
Well-known Member
Hello showcrop,
The reason you need to use the clutch to shift a truck transmission is to make a smooth
shift, and to keep wear down. Doing so the next gear is lined up for a proper
engagement. Shifting without the assistance the clutch will wear parts of the
transmission that normally do not wear that much The main shaft; main shaft key; Once
apart it it very easy to tell if the clutch was used. Shifting without the clutch keeps
almost a 100% constante pressure between all the driving gears mating surfaces, therefore
lubricating fluid does not get in between the mating surfaces to keep wear down. Center
clutch hub is usually a shock failure. When shifting without a clutch the clutch
components do not move. Faster shifting for sure but not the proper procedure to shift
without the clutch! Skipping gears is perfectly fine
as long as it is done without grindig them.
Guido.
The reason you need to use the clutch to shift a truck transmission is to make a smooth
shift, and to keep wear down. Doing so the next gear is lined up for a proper
engagement. Shifting without the assistance the clutch will wear parts of the
transmission that normally do not wear that much The main shaft; main shaft key; Once
apart it it very easy to tell if the clutch was used. Shifting without the clutch keeps
almost a 100% constante pressure between all the driving gears mating surfaces, therefore
lubricating fluid does not get in between the mating surfaces to keep wear down. Center
clutch hub is usually a shock failure. When shifting without a clutch the clutch
components do not move. Faster shifting for sure but not the proper procedure to shift
without the clutch! Skipping gears is perfectly fine
as long as it is done without grindig them.
Guido.
My uncle had a KB7 that was my first truck that I ground gears on. My first semi had a 13 speed but the spring was gone that kept it out of first and reverse. You had to feel real good when you went to the high side coming out of fourth and going to fifth. The 9 and 13 speed I NEVER use the clutch.
fixerupper
Well-known Member
One of the times I was in Saskatchewan on the harvest the boss and I drove a borrowed Mack bobtail a couple hundred miles to pick up a grain trailer. He told me to drive and he rode along. I forget what it had for a tranny but I couldn't shift it without grinding and missing gears to save my life. Finally the boss told me he was going to look for a paper bag to put over his head so no one would recognize him riding with this guy who couldn't shift gears. He got in the drivers seat on the way home and he couldn't shift it either so I got my revenge and started looking in the bunk for a paper bag. We still joke about that today.
OP
OP
showcrop
Well-known Member
If that guy in the video were starting off where he had to turn, as in pulling out onto a road, you can bet he would have his arm through the wheel, otherwise the wheel would be spinning back and he would be going off the road on the other side. At intersections I would have to shift four times before I even got straightened out going down the road. At least the crown in the road gave me a little downhill so that I could skip one.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Way back when I drove an 18 wheeler hauling tractors,equip & Alfalfa sq bales once I was rolling I shifted up or down without using clutch and very rarely scratched a gear. Once foot & hand got coordinated it was easy as a walk in the park. I fail to see how shifting without utilizing clutch is hard on clutch or trans.
T in NE
Well-known Member
- Location
- Cambridge, Nebraska
Spent my first two weeks on the road with another
rookie. All his training was in a cabover and he
couldn't hit a gear in the century class. The detent
for reverse/first want heavy enough for him to feel
it.
Told had him put his hand on top of the shifter,
grabbed below the splitter, and floated him into the
next gear from the passenger seat. He couldn't
believe how easy that was and never missed another
shift.
He would play with the shifter waiting for the rpm
change then use the detent to find his next gear.
Not using the clutch, he was lining up for the next
gear instead of worrying about moving his left foot.
rookie. All his training was in a cabover and he
couldn't hit a gear in the century class. The detent
for reverse/first want heavy enough for him to feel
it.
Told had him put his hand on top of the shifter,
grabbed below the splitter, and floated him into the
next gear from the passenger seat. He couldn't
believe how easy that was and never missed another
shift.
He would play with the shifter waiting for the rpm
change then use the detent to find his next gear.
Not using the clutch, he was lining up for the next
gear instead of worrying about moving his left foot.
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