Using old machines

I use everything around here even if it is ancient. A "discussion" with a police officer has me looking for an answer.

So I take the old 56 Chevy grain truck (now just a flat bed truck) to town with skid steer attachments on the flatbed to use at a pasture I rent. I went back tonight to get old blue and promptly had lights and sirens within 300 feet of hitting the limits of the little town. I know about everyone on the force but this one was new to me. Anyway, he was all over me because the truck doesn't have two brake lights and someone might think it is a motorcycle (that's still a vehicle in front of you, right?). It never came with two - it's always had one. I told him that it fulfilled the laws of the date of manufacture and my understanding was that was how it was enforced. He said that only applied to seat belts. He was also all wound up because the rear had the clearance lights all shining but the single function brake light wasn't glowing. It also has no tag light for the antique tag (which it never had). I just took it back to the pasture and will get it tomorrow. This was probably the first time it has been on the road after dark in about four years.

I SWEAR I read somewhere that if the machine came with one it can stay that way. It also came without license plate lights. It does not have functional park lights with the headlights on as that was not a law in the US until the 1968 model year. I know of this fact as I have an old car that is a '67 and have been around about those park lights. They don't stay on when you pull the switch to headlights.

I was respectful, but asked the cop how it was that one would find the information he was referring to, but he said he didn't know. He would have to find a book to look it up. He was just sure he was right, though. He never even asked the year of the truck. I just nodded and went on my way.

So am I crazy? I just am sure that I read this somewhere but wouldn't know where to go to find how Kansas deals with these situations.

Before everyone goes nuts - yes, every light works that it came with. Yes, I will probably upgrade it to two rear lights at some point. This truck literally left the farm today for the first time in years, so I don't worry a lot about it too much. It usually takes loads of manure across the lot or moved corner posts. The '58 GMC that still hauls grain has been upgraded in every way, but it still hits the open road every so often. Old blue just happens to be the flatbed truck.

He was just probably looking for DUI. Happens all the time around here. You wouldn't believe how many get pulled over for 'no tag lights'. That's why I try not to drive after dark even though my 'tag lights' are working.

http://www.kansashighwaypatrol.org/faqs/equipment.html

According to this, under "vehicle lighting", it says all must have a license plate light. But doesn't say anything about having to add any other lighting that wasn't original equipment.

It does appear Kansas is strict with their antique vehicle requirements, as in the vehicle must be as original as possible to be classified as antique (over 35 years old). Do an engine upgrade, its a "modified" vehicle, not antique.

http://www.kansashighwaypatrol.org/press/brochures/antique.pdf

With that in mind, my argument would be that I want to keep it as original as possible so as to keep the antique status. Maybe a call to the general headquarters of the Highway Patrol could get some answers.

+1 on DUI fishing expedition. BTDT

If no ticket was issued I would just forget the incident. I do not think antique classification would allow you to move equipment on the truck.

had same thing with HP back in the 70's pulled over just at dark in a 2 ton dump with 10 foot bed. it came with clearance light on front and one in the rear, he wrote me up but also said i needed a light on front of bed. i asked how they got by without one from factory but couldn't get an answer.

Depending on your state, an antique classification could severely restrict how you can use the truck: parades, shows, pleasure drives, and trips to a repair shop.

I don't remember seeing any 1950's vehicles without two tail lights. The grain/flat bed probably was not OEM equipment from Chevrolet. Now-a-days, using an older truck with a tail light missing is a magnet for police stops. If you need to use the truck for commerce, I would add the second tail light.

I found this Kansas statute that allows for only one tail lamp on cars built prior to 1959 but it specifically says "passenger cars". It also doesn't have any exclusions about illuminating the license plate. I would think too that vintage vehicles should be "grand-fathered in" as long as they met the existing requirements when they were originally built but at least this statute doesn't seem to imply that is always the case.
Vehicle tail light requirements

(quoted from post at 06:16:25 12/19/15) He was just probably looking for DUI. Happens all the time around here. You wouldn't believe how many get pulled over for 'no tag lights'. That's why I try not to drive after dark even though my 'tag lights' are working.

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The tag light law is stupid in my opinion. It has no bearing on the vehicles safety, and the tags can be read when a police cruiser is behind it with it's head light on. I think it was a law passed to give police an excuse to pull someone over to sniff around the car for trouble.

Such things are a function of state laws which vary from state to state.

Though I know little of state laws and regulations concerning vintage trucks, it is well known that automobiles in many/most/all states need only conform to the laws and regulations in effect when the vehicle was manufactured. Ever see a Model T/A or an SS 396 Chevelle with air bags?

Dean

You might double check with the laws in your state. They are always changing the laws. Look at the states that have Amish. They have forced those folks to put lights on their carriages. Those certainly weren't born with lights on them.

What I would do is find out who his boss was and go to him with it. You probably will get it cleared up quick. Good not to argue with him on site!!! I have been stopped when cops were clearly looking for someone or dui. They had excuse (thought your plate expired) but quickly moved on when they see I was not there person of interest.

Bought a 96 International tractor in Missouri. Had to have it inspected before getting a tag. Sheriff dept. could not find a frame number and said they all had it. Sent me to the Highway Patrol headquarters. They could not find a frame number, signed off on it anyway.

Yes and over zealous young cops bored and trying to make themselves famous in their own mind,,it happens a lot in the small towns around here in central Ohio. They will never look for a drug dealer or "Mule",,too scary for them,, they would rather ruin a resectable persons day with minor infractions..

(quoted from post at 02:51:01 12/19/15) http://www.kansashighwaypatrol.org/faqs/equipment.html

According to this, under "vehicle lighting", it says all must have a license plate light. But doesn't say anything about having to add any other lighting that wasn't original equipment.

It does appear Kansas is strict with their antique vehicle requirements, as in the vehicle must be as original as possible to be classified as antique (over 35 years old). Do an engine upgrade, its a "modified" vehicle, not antique.

http://www.kansashighwaypatrol.org/press/brochures/antique.pdf

With that in mind, my argument would be that I want to keep it as original as possible so as to keep the antique status. Maybe a call to the general headquarters of the Highway Patrol could get some answers.

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As Steve said, get with whoever the local authority is and find out for sure. What goes in one state may not in another. It's in the Kansas vehicle and traffic law or the DMV rules and regs someplace. I have to laugh at the baby cop saying he didn't know where to find the law! We spent 6 months getting the laws, an more importantly how and where to find them, drilled into us at out academy. But, thats State Police, not a small town PD.

Yo also might be able to get the info from your state vehicle inspection stations.

A number of years ago at a routine traffic stop, a farmer was arrested and jailed by a young Deputy for carrying a concealed weapon.

The weapon? It was a hunting knife in a door pocket on his pickup truck. How many farm pickups in Nebraska have a hunting knife in a door pocket?

I never heard another word about the incident, so it must have been thrown out by saner people.

My dad got pulled over in his mini truck. It was an excise cop to boot. Went on about not being able to drive it on the road. Dad showed him the state off road sticker and papers. The guy was an a-s about it. He went to his car and about 10 min later came back and said your good to go. Worse thing was my BIL was with him and he is a cop and has trained this guy in shooting!

New Jersey the way it came is the way you can use it. My friend drives around in a Model T that he lights the taillight with a match [ then attaches a modern clip on red light for safety] but nothing is required. Bikes before 1974 no turn signals etc.

I am a retired Lt. From Wichita so pretty familiar with Kansas laws, but I admit that I do not know, or care to look up, the rear light requirements on antique trucks. I guess in Wichita we just did not ever have that kind of time on our hands. I suspect that the hotshot (likely a new one - this has rookie written all over it) cop was really bored, as most small town cops are, which is why I moved to Wichita 43 years ago.

The fact that you did not get a ticket means your argument made him doubt himself, which is a good thing - he need to learn to only do those things he is really sure about.

I agree that a quick call to the KHP division HQ will clear it up for you.

If a patrolman is going to write you a citation, he has to "CITE" which exact part of the MVC you violed. Chapter, paragraph, subparagraph etc. AND, he has to fill that in BEFORE he gives you the citation. That's the first thing I ask if I'm stopped.is what is the section and number of the code that I violated?

I did a quick review of the Missouri MVC. Section XIX, chap 307.075. All vehicles must have two tail lights...spacing height etc...

In most states if it was not on it when new you do not have to have it on it now. Like seat belts in that truck if it has them some one put them in since no car or truck made before 1965 had them. Turn signals also are not needed on ,many older cars or truck since they did not have them on them when new

Talk about time on your hands. I had an officer stop me for going from the order window to the pay window without my seat belt on
(In this particular municipality, police can enforce traffic laws on commercial property). As I seldom question the officer, I
said nothing. Most cops are bothered by this and ask why I do not speak. I tell them I think it is wrong to argue with an
officer and that he had not asked a question, merely made a statement. He then asked if I had anything to say. I told him I had a
question; I asked if this is what he imagined himself doing when he started his first day in the police academy? I thought I
might get in trouble by upsetting him but he let me go with a verbal.

Well as i see it and know that yes back when it was built they only had one tail lite No turn signals and one brake lite No license plate lite . Yep all legal back then . OK fine , but today with total idiots running around driving what ever looking at there fancy hand held phone-computer texting why not just add some more lites to it and be done with it . Light it up like a Christmas tree . Put brake lites on it that they can see from mars add in a plate light that they also can see from Mars add turn signals and even a midship one half way down the bed just to make sure that the nut case that is sneaking up on the blind side can see your turning IF HE IS LOOKING and not on his phone. way back when i was a pup i helped my uncle install turn signals and more lites on his farm trucks because we were now farming further and working more into the night . we had to make them bright so they could be seen thru all the blow by of them old Chevy and Dodge trucks . we even put TWo tail lights on the potato wagons pulled behind the tractors . Now that was HIGH TECH FOR BACK THEN and the plug was just and extention cord two proung plug and a reg. light switch that you would use in a house . Lighting on any tyep of car, truck, tractor, combine on the road TODAY is important . But people still don't see you . Back when i first started plowing snow i just used the four way flashers , Well one early morning while clearing a gas station .I was finishing up and backing out onto the street to clear the enterances . It is 4 AM snowing really hard there is nobody out yet just me and this one COP . Here he come Barny PFIE lights going siren going and broad side into the lot . wrote me up for no 360 degree warning lights . Fifty two doallrs for the fine ( and i could not find nothing in the Ohio revised motor veichle code ) My dad and EX State cop could not find nothing either AT THE TIME and that point brought up before the judge carried no weight , paid said fine and went out and bought the brightest 360 degree rotary light i could find and mounted it . Next snow storm at same gas station same COP about same time stops me once again and complains that my light is blinding him. Informed himi did what he told me to do and i paid his chump charge fine and now he will have to either live with it or i will see him in court and this time i will not come alone . So what you can do is get yourself a hand book copy of your stated revised motor viechel code and set down and read it cover to cover and then you can go to that and say well here in this here book it says . I carried a copy of it while i was doing the coal bucket thing because by one state bear in my area you as a coal hauler wer a CRIMINAL the moment you steped into that truck and he hated Coal haulers .

i faced that when i restored a 1957 2 ton chevy formerly a cattle truck it sat for more than 40 years in the same spot, but before i could get a plate for it it had to conform to modern lighting requirements, 2 brake lites 3 clearance lites for 8 foot wide bed, if the tail lites are mounted to the rear frame rails of the truck, there must also be a marker lite and reflector on the bed corner to show its edges at nite i also put a amber one at the front edge of the bed, each side, since nobody around here under 50 knows how to drive anymore, also 5 cab roof lites, although here they can be grouped either evenly spaced or 1, 3,1 as commercial trucks use, turn signals are now required, since the 57 had none ever, i got a grote unit found on large trucks and wired them up per instructions, this simplified the problem of having the front turn signal come on when you hit the brakes

Pennsylvania has a once a year state inspection (used to be twice yearly). I remember in the late fifties, Dad had to put turn signals on the fenders and a control on the steering column of our 48 ford truck and the 1950 Chevy truck. They didn't come new with turn signals; Must have been a newly enacted rule.