Looking at a 1020 JD and 454 IH. They seem in similar condition. Both have decent paint and tires, similar hours (around 5000), both have had fairly recent overhauls and clutches. The 454 has a loader with forks and bucket. Asking $5,700 for the 1020 and $7,000 for the 454. Either will fill my needs. I'm not that familiar with either so would appreciate opinions.
- Thread starter Ferd
- Start date
We have several tractors and I call the 454 the "no-drama" tractor. It just does whatever I ask and doesn't groan (unlike, say, the Jubilee, which also does what I ask but makes me feel guilty for asking). Is this a diesel 454? The D179 diesel engine is just getting broken in at 5000 hours. The price seems quite a bit high for that many hours unless the machine is in very good condition, though. At that price I'd expect a new wiring harness, and everything working perfectly except maybe the parking brake since generally some hired bozo will have ignored the warning light and plowed twenty acres with the brake on, at which point it will have disintegrated and will clog the hydraulic filter for the next half-dozen fluid and filter changes -- and it's a royal pain to fix since the band is inside the range transmission. Most parts are easily available as this family of tractors (though not this model number) was made for quite a long time. Don't be afraid to press the ether button to start, these guys are really cold-blooded and need a shot of ether to start if it's below 60 degrees outside. If you need to drive some distance on the road, by the way, you might appreciate that the highest gear on a 454 will motivate you at about 20 mph and the steering is boosted akin to a contemporary early-70s Buick.
Never had a 454,but I had a 1020 for 33 years or so. Great little bullet proof tractor. I had a loader on it the whole time,beat the daylights out of it every single day and it was still running when it went out of here.
That price sounds a little high without a loader is all.
That price sounds a little high without a loader is all.
The JD 1020 is pretty bullet proof. The IH utility tractors where never that great. Drive both an see which you like the best for hydraulics and steering. As for the parts price. I will bet that JD is just as reasonable as CNH. I have had more HIGH parts prices from AGCO and CNH lately over JD.
Jasper MAY have a long block for the JD 1020. I got one for a JD 2020 4-5 years ago. It was $6500 then. I would rebuild what you have unless you know the block is junk.
What I have been doing to the older engines that I plan on keeping forever:
1) If the crankshaft is not useable without being ground I replace it with new or good used with standard size journals.
2) The cylinder head completely rebuilt including new guides, springs, keepers and valves, all surfaces ground, entire head magna fluxed for cracks.
3) New cam shaft with new bushings installed in the block.
4) New oil pump complete with new oil lines too.
5) Injection pump and injectors rebuilt or replaced if not able to be put at factory NEW specs.
6) Connecting rods remachined to factory specs.
7) New cylinder kits of good high quality parts.
8) Have the radiator cleaned and checked.
9) On assembly I use new head, rod bearing and main bearing bolts.
On a JD 404 out of a 4020 I will have right at $5000 in parts and machine work. The labor would be on top if it is a hired job. On a JD 466 like in a JD 4440 it is closer to $7500 plus labor. Now these engines are basically back to "factory new" specs when I am done. I also usually Dyno these engines to ensure the rings are seated. This takes 8-10 hours with break in oil. I also readjust the valves after the first hour or so.
Most guys will not spend that much on a older tractor. I really do not blame them unless they are going to keep it for YEARS. Then a complete rebuild is cheaper than a new tractor.
What I have been doing to the older engines that I plan on keeping forever:
1) If the crankshaft is not useable without being ground I replace it with new or good used with standard size journals.
2) The cylinder head completely rebuilt including new guides, springs, keepers and valves, all surfaces ground, entire head magna fluxed for cracks.
3) New cam shaft with new bushings installed in the block.
4) New oil pump complete with new oil lines too.
5) Injection pump and injectors rebuilt or replaced if not able to be put at factory NEW specs.
6) Connecting rods remachined to factory specs.
7) New cylinder kits of good high quality parts.
8) Have the radiator cleaned and checked.
9) On assembly I use new head, rod bearing and main bearing bolts.
On a JD 404 out of a 4020 I will have right at $5000 in parts and machine work. The labor would be on top if it is a hired job. On a JD 466 like in a JD 4440 it is closer to $7500 plus labor. Now these engines are basically back to "factory new" specs when I am done. I also usually Dyno these engines to ensure the rings are seated. This takes 8-10 hours with break in oil. I also readjust the valves after the first hour or so.
Most guys will not spend that much on a older tractor. I really do not blame them unless they are going to keep it for YEARS. Then a complete rebuild is cheaper than a new tractor.
Tom in Mo.
Well-known Member
I've owned both for a while. Both good machines. The 1020 is a better tractor overall. The 424 has a sensitive clutch due to the angle of the pedal and grabs fast so have it pointed in the right direction.
Hay maker2
Member
I'm willing to bet the farm that the prices that CNH charges are just as mush as Deere or Agco. Regardless of color, they are all expensive to fix. I am also willing to be the farm that I can get more parts from Deere for that 1020 than CNH offers for the 454. Also, if your down Deere can deliver the parts much faster than the others.
In addition to the above. I'd also check out the starter and rebuild the water pump. Electrical system gets a check over too. Clean all connections and check the wires over for damaged spots.
A fresh engine is going to crank harder and make more heat than an old worn out one. Get it all in top shape for years of trouble free service.
I'd also rather rebuild what I have unless it has a crack or hole in it . You never know about these remans ?
A fresh engine is going to crank harder and make more heat than an old worn out one. Get it all in top shape for years of trouble free service.
I'd also rather rebuild what I have unless it has a crack or hole in it . You never know about these remans ?
coonie minnie
Well-known Member
Having run both, I'd choose the Deere hands down. That rear fuel tank (and all the associated headaches) on the 454 still has me shaking my head 10 years later.
I've had a 454 since 95 and so far it's been a best buy for me. I too had the fuel tank off and cleaned it up internally and since then with the settlement bowl on the fuel line for both sides and the filter just before the pump I haven't had any issues with fuel. Put on a new water pump a while back. The tractor hydraulics are top notch and it has all the features I like such as all hydro steering,lockable rear diff,rear remotes,live pto,8 speed trans. It's a little thirsty on gas but powerful. One downside thing is it's hot sitting low on the trany and over the muffler in the summer while baling hay.
Ferd: A major thing to think about is the total number of units that where ever built. The IH 454 was built for 3 years and is not a widely accepted tractor. The British built utility tractors can be a real head ache for some parts. I have a good friend that has a IH 444 he bought new. We have had to order some parts out of England for it. Many of them are no longer offered by CNH.
The JD 1020 was built more years and shares a lot of common parts with the other Mannheim designed tractors. Between JD and A&I there are few parts not available new. Also there are aftermarket parts for the JD 1020. There are few after market parts, if any for an IH 454.
In my area there is no comparison to the parts availability between CNH and JD. IF I need JD parts I can get them next day, period. CNH is two or three days for many things.
The JD 1020 was built more years and shares a lot of common parts with the other Mannheim designed tractors. Between JD and A&I there are few parts not available new. Also there are aftermarket parts for the JD 1020. There are few after market parts, if any for an IH 454.
In my area there is no comparison to the parts availability between CNH and JD. IF I need JD parts I can get them next day, period. CNH is two or three days for many things.
Bear in mind that although the 454 was only built from 1971-73 (as I recall) it became the 464 (which was nearly identical) and then the 484 and the 495 and the 3220, so the family continued through the mid-90s with the same engine. And there are a lot of related tractors that share many parts other than the engine, including the 385, 574, 584, 674, 684, 784, etc. as well as some early McCormicks. Also the industrial 2400s are also nearly identical with a different axle and paint. Admittedly, CIH's online parts system sometimes makes it hard to figure out what current part number maps to the part you're looking for if you have the original parts manual (I have repeatedly run across things that were seemingly NLA but then looking at the parts list for a 495 found a direct replacement with a different number).
Both are good tractors, drive them to see which control layout you like better. I'm partial to the Deere, I really like the 2020 I had with a 48 loader. Both prices sound high, but I don't know your location or the actual condition of the machines.
It is usually easier to buy a tractor and loader as a unit rather than separately. Some things that help on a loader tractor are:
ballast in the rear tires (for traction);
engine side frames (takes stress off the engine block);
straight front axle instead of swept-back axle (front axle is closer to the bucket, better balance and traction);
high capacity hydraulic pump.
A quick-attach loader is very handy, you can remove or re-install the loader in five to ten minutes.
It is usually easier to buy a tractor and loader as a unit rather than separately. Some things that help on a loader tractor are:
ballast in the rear tires (for traction);
engine side frames (takes stress off the engine block);
straight front axle instead of swept-back axle (front axle is closer to the bucket, better balance and traction);
high capacity hydraulic pump.
A quick-attach loader is very handy, you can remove or re-install the loader in five to ten minutes.
M-MAN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bostic, NC
No matter which you get you need to get the price down a good bit.
Rex Simpkins
Member
I bleed 2150 IH paint but the 454 is not as good a tractor as the 1020, I had an 830 JD and a 385 IH if for no other reason than the fuel tank--but there are more reason's. I sold the 385 and kept my 240 utility. Wish I had the little 830 back it was a nice nice tractor and everything was well thought out for the operator.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
You're correct the worn out bush/brgs are caused from lack of grease. Lack of grease wear can happen to any color tractor. I'd chose a 1020 over a 454 any day.
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