Tried to do a little car trading yesterday, I must be a bit out of touch with how its done or I was at a dealership that did not want my business. I find a car online I liked, called and talked to sales, made an appointment to see the car. In the mean time I got an nada price (with proper area miles and options) on my trade and a price on the new(er) car. On my way over I had in my head that a fair agreement would be book price on there car and rough trade on mine or at least close to it. Get there meet the sales rep, she has an earing in her nose ( wasn't that impressed but went out and looked at the car, it was a good enough car with a few little scratches with the exterior (little old lady rub on the fenders) but mechanically a great car. They looked at mine, not much but like I said I didn't expect much more than rough trade, went into the office and they were 1300 over book on theirs and 750 lower than book on mine. I gave them my nada #s thinking that those would be close to a deal. Salesperson leaves then comes back and gives me the same original #s. I said really that's all you can do? They try telling me that the car is worth that. My response was if I total it at the end of the driveway on my way out my insurance is only going to give me book price! That's when I decided to go home and feed the cows. So am I being totally unrealistic here? This is why I just hate to trade cars!
- Thread starter Case e
- Start date
IAtractorKid
Member
Sounds pretty typical. Most places around here are about 1/3 of book price on what they will give you for trade.
Jim in New Mexico
Member
I've always said when you go into a car dealer the first thing you "MUST" do is write STUPID on your forehead with a magic marker !! Most sale people in the car lots couldn't get any other job.. just my .02 cents worth.....Jim in N.M. PS you'll never beat them at there game PERIOD !!
You are poking a sore spot with me. I have the same feelings about dealers and have bought the three latest vehicles from used car lots. Found two people that talk with some brains and will dicker a little. So I have said on here I bought a 1996 Ford Explorer with 132,K on it like eight years ago. Finally died with 383,K on the clock. Not saying every used car lot is good but if you go take a look at the stock they have "they don't deal in junk" and if they will fix it etc. etc. then give them a shot.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Dealerships pay no attention to any of the NADA, or blue book stuff. Some of them don't even know such things exist.
Brent Zappe
Member
At one time I had a friend who is dad was a car wholesales back when I was a kid. It was interseting to me the delarships would sell the old cars that they got in trade. It was interresting to me what the mark up was on a new car at the dealarship. Most sale person get a comission and when you talk a price down they get less. The deaship has a mark up on the new cars to pay for there over head on there lot. Here is one person that wants to say this I am not to much in love with the new cars. All i see is plastic and cheap craftmenship. Whe I stand back and look at my 1967 Mustang parked next to a new mustang. I look and cry. It is said to say what we people have to except and like to buy in this world I now live in.
TomH in PA
Well-known Member
Dealers don't want to sell used cars. They keep some around to draw you in so they can try to switch you to a new car.
A dealer needs to make at least $1000 or more off your trade-in. If they can't do that they really don't want a trade-in. You will almost always come out ahead to sell your old car privately. The dealer should be able to give you a better deal without your trade-in. Some used car dealers make most of their money on financing vehicles and don't want any cash sales, walk away from those places.
If they were $1300 over retail book and the car was damaged they were probably closer to $3000 over true retail price. Dealership pricing is usually based on the care being in GOOD SHAPE, not damaged from previous accidents. Even though the damage was minor you would be surprised how fast it adds up to get it repaired professionally.
Going home was your best move. Problem is they get so many people that don't negotiate over PRICE, they negotiate over PAYMENTS not ever knowing what their total cost will be.
Going home was your best move. Problem is they get so many people that don't negotiate over PRICE, they negotiate over PAYMENTS not ever knowing what their total cost will be.
Some do. The Subaru dealer I went to where I traded by van and a 2003 Toyota Matrix used one of these (forget which now), ran it and laid it out, of course saying they'd give me the lowest trade in price listed. I had run the same thing before I went there and said, No, but I'll take this middle price. That being a fair price for the car with high'ish mileage on it, was about due for maintenance work and some repaired fender damage (which I don't think they noticed, it was a very good repair). It was a clean car and they took it. external_link bought the van in the "cash for clunkers" thing. Got about twice what it would have been worth at retail. I figured that's a tax refund for all I've paid in taxes to the 'gubmint all my life.
Mike Aylward
Well-known Member
This story reminds me of something my dad told me years ago. He said, "don't go into a dealership to buy a car. Go in and make them sell it to you". There is a big difference. Mike
Hard to get even the lowest of low book on trade around here (Ohio) but the dealers want top of the top book price to sell to you. I think the money is in the used cars not as much profit in new ones ?
I could never understand it though. If you try and sell one yourself for a little above what you could get trading it seems no one will even come look at it. Very hard to sell one yourself it seems.
I could never understand it though. If you try and sell one yourself for a little above what you could get trading it seems no one will even come look at it. Very hard to sell one yourself it seems.
dr sportster
Well-known Member
They will never give you what you would get if you sold it yourself.
John M
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nunyafn business
Between this post and the service posts,you guys have some really crappy dealers!!
RandyB(MI)
Well-known Member
With the internet , craigslist and all, I am at a loss as to why anyone would go to a car lot for anything. They can't / won't answer any questions about car,partially because they have no idea where it came from. They have a lot of dead weight overhead to cover. Why not buy from owner (original one if possible) get your questions answered and not have to make some snakes living for them? Convenience costs money and they are more than willing to take it. Can't get own financing, can't locate a car for yourself , probably shouldn't be buying a car. NOT aiming this at you , but the general public that keeps these snakes going. The under 30 crowd needs educated but unfortunately won't listen. Could sure tell some used car horror stories if I had time to write a book. Just a few standard rules...NEVER buy from a stand alone used car lot!!! ..If you buy USED from a new car dealer , get name of trader and talk to him/her,if they won't give you that then WALK...there's a reason. ANY used car on lot has added to it the cost of building/overhead , salesmans commission , finance and insurance persons commission , cost for a worthless warrantee if they can sucker you into it and of course some left for the snake that owns all of it. ( sometimes nothing but a "front" for where they make their "big" money.) You wouldn't believe the NICE cars/trucks out there being sold by original or 2 nd owner and they are not having to pay all those losers out of what they get. Do your homework...you won't regret it.
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
Most new car dealers here will send any car over 4 year old to a dealer auction, they don't want to sell used cars.
K Effective
Well-known Member
I just experienced some of this when my Mom upgraded her car. I was so proud of her that after a few test drives with me, she actually went to a dealer, saw a car she liked, and started negotiating a deal, all without my help! She had not bought a car in 75 years, her Dad then my Dad handled all those things for her. At that point, she insisted I look over and drive the car, which turned out to be a great one-owner (80 year-old) local car in pretty good shape. The deal she finalized was just under the average retail from KBB for our area for condition. She got a trade-in price, but then gave us her "old" car for one of the kids. Hers was clearly negotiated as a cash deal right up front.
A friend who had retired really young, and has a car fetish, took a job selling cars at that same dealership years ago, just to pass his time and look for cool cars for himself. He told me that new car sales has little margin in most of the common cars. some deals netted the salesman less than $100 commission. The dealership does have a set "holdback" number that they get paid by the manufacturer depending on volume, etc. that helps pay the overhead. Their fattest cows are the late-model used cars, where there may be a couple of thousand dollars over the trade cost. His experience was that any other salesman (than an independently wealthy one like him) would work a deal until they broke even- so stay fixed to a low offer until they actually ask you to leave, then take their last offer, as it [u:86bcf65d82]will[/u:86bcf65d82] be the best they can do. I prefer to think of them as servers, who deserve to EARN some of my money, if they treat me well, I don't mind them making some decent profit.
Mom is enjoying the new gadgets- she tracked her tire pressures to show one leaking air, the dealer aired them all up for her once, then investigated further to find a broken drywall screw in the tread even I did not see! They offered one brand new replacement tire, she upgraded to four new ones, just to keep a matched set. Seemed like good customer service to me.
A friend who had retired really young, and has a car fetish, took a job selling cars at that same dealership years ago, just to pass his time and look for cool cars for himself. He told me that new car sales has little margin in most of the common cars. some deals netted the salesman less than $100 commission. The dealership does have a set "holdback" number that they get paid by the manufacturer depending on volume, etc. that helps pay the overhead. Their fattest cows are the late-model used cars, where there may be a couple of thousand dollars over the trade cost. His experience was that any other salesman (than an independently wealthy one like him) would work a deal until they broke even- so stay fixed to a low offer until they actually ask you to leave, then take their last offer, as it [u:86bcf65d82]will[/u:86bcf65d82] be the best they can do. I prefer to think of them as servers, who deserve to EARN some of my money, if they treat me well, I don't mind them making some decent profit.
Mom is enjoying the new gadgets- she tracked her tire pressures to show one leaking air, the dealer aired them all up for her once, then investigated further to find a broken drywall screw in the tread even I did not see! They offered one brand new replacement tire, she upgraded to four new ones, just to keep a matched set. Seemed like good customer service to me.
I am NOT a professional but have traded and bought MANY vehicles. Never bought a new one.
It is my personal opinion that when you ask if someone will accept a particular offer, you are not in control.
Make an offer ---"I will give you $********and be prepared to buy right then. If they counteroffer---do the same.
NEVER LOOSE CONTROL!!
It is my personal opinion that when you ask if someone will accept a particular offer, you are not in control.
Make an offer ---"I will give you $********and be prepared to buy right then. If they counteroffer---do the same.
NEVER LOOSE CONTROL!!
Yes there are plenty of BAD dealers around. And BAD employees at good dealers too.
I don't think it's as bad as the older days. 70's 80's ? I had good experiences getting warranty work done at dealers I didn't buy from. Not like the old days when you would hear take it back where you bought it !
Funny story-the GM dealer I worked at was ran by one of those old school guys. Lady came in for warranty work he said take it back where you bought it. She then replied I bought it here ! then I think she called him a bad word too ! Ha. Ha.
One other time near quitting time and all techs were gone a lady needed a new battery in her Cadillac. Service told her we had no one to install it and to go to another GM dealer I think ? that stayed open later. Wasn't I bet five minutes after she pulled out the front door open and in she came again. I worked in parts and helped the service writer stick a battery in it with pretty bad/limited tools from the grease rack. Turned out she called GM and they called the dealership and said you WILL get her a battery !
I don't think it's as bad as the older days. 70's 80's ? I had good experiences getting warranty work done at dealers I didn't buy from. Not like the old days when you would hear take it back where you bought it !
Funny story-the GM dealer I worked at was ran by one of those old school guys. Lady came in for warranty work he said take it back where you bought it. She then replied I bought it here ! then I think she called him a bad word too ! Ha. Ha.
One other time near quitting time and all techs were gone a lady needed a new battery in her Cadillac. Service told her we had no one to install it and to go to another GM dealer I think ? that stayed open later. Wasn't I bet five minutes after she pulled out the front door open and in she came again. I worked in parts and helped the service writer stick a battery in it with pretty bad/limited tools from the grease rack. Turned out she called GM and they called the dealership and said you WILL get her a battery !
Robin Hood
Member
Went through the same exact thing seven weeks ago. Looking for a work car with under 100 k. I did my due diligence and went in and made an fair offer. I had all the info printed before hand to bolster my offer. Wouldn't budge. Thanked them for their time and got up and left. They hounded me all the way to the door but wouldn't accept my offer. Went to the next place and did the same thing. They sold me the car that night.
Seems to me that they know that sooner or later someone will fall for the talk and pay the dealers price. Its a mathematical certainty that someone will pay more. They just lay and wait until that guy walks in.
Seems to me that they know that sooner or later someone will fall for the talk and pay the dealers price. Its a mathematical certainty that someone will pay more. They just lay and wait until that guy walks in.
Andy Martin
Well-known Member
I go the hots for a Chrysler Crossfire a few years ago. Dealer I passé don the way to work had several program cars on his used car lot. I was ready to pay cash and go, went in, drove one with the salesman. I liked it and asked how much. Sit in this room. After half of an eternity they came in with a piece of paper with a monthly payment on it, that's all. I told the salesman I asked "how much", I was paying cash, and a payment with no term and no interest is not "how much". He came back with an interest rate but no term, and he did not know the term. He left again and I realized I was wasting my time so I got up and left. He saw me and walked to the door with me asking what he could do. I said he could have given me a sales price but he couldn't do anything now. Halfway across the parking lot a fat sales manager holding his piece of pizza came waddling out yelling at me. I stopped until he got to me. He asked what my problem was! I told him I wanted to buy a car but they would not give me a price so I'm leaving. He wrote a price on a grease stained brown napkin with a felt tip pen. It was less than I would have paid and I told him so. He smiled and said great. I started walking and he followed me to my car. I told him I would not buy a car from someone I had to threaten to get a price. The salesman called me later and I apologized and was real positive. Told him I would be back in as soon as I could make it. I told him that every time he called, for about six weeks, I think he finally got the picture, or maybe he changed jobs. I'll never set foot in that dealership again and they won't miss me.
Last automobile I bought, after my wife and I drove it, wife set in car and I went in and made a cash offer.
Salesman wrote it down, stood up and stated he would have to ask used car manager.
I stood up and told him to go ahead, I needed to OK that offer with my wife and would return shortly.
He said, You made me an offer and I have to get an OK to sale for that reduced price.
I said---yes I made YOU an offer because I thought I was dealing with you.
If you need an OK, so do I.
He set back down and accepted my offer.
I never liked the games they play!
Salesman wrote it down, stood up and stated he would have to ask used car manager.
I stood up and told him to go ahead, I needed to OK that offer with my wife and would return shortly.
He said, You made me an offer and I have to get an OK to sale for that reduced price.
I said---yes I made YOU an offer because I thought I was dealing with you.
If you need an OK, so do I.
He set back down and accepted my offer.
I never liked the games they play!
Mark - IN.
Well-known Member
I'm not good at that stuff either, but my advice is to be careful. My brother's daughter was just in an accident a month or so ago with an uninsured motorist that ran a red light and hit her and her fairly new car was totaled. Problem is that she owed something like $15,000 on the car, but the insurance company said that the car was worth $10,000 and that's all that they paid. Her bank got a check for $10,000 from the insurance company and she still owes them another $5,000 just to break even. It's one of those kind of deals that one of my sisters and her husband just got themselves into and don't realize it yet. 0 down, 0% interest until ???, and 0 first payment until ??? came back and bit my niece and if my sister and her wheeling dealing husband aren't careful and get into a totaled out accident, they too will get bit. Thanksgiving dinner at my house the other day and I go out to the driveway and see a new car that I've never seen. All of the other cars I recognize and know who they belong to, but there is a new one that I calculated must belong to me sister and BIL, so when I get inside I ask, and they say yes, its theirs. OK, no big deal, nice car. My BIL starts in with most people don't know how to wheel and deal, trade and the sort, but he sure does and did. Said he went into a dealer and told them what they were going to do for him and how they were going to do it, and if they didn't he would just leave because he didn't need to be there. So when all was said and done, he got a newer bigger car and his monthly payments are $50 less, all with 0 Down, 0% interest until ???, and 0 payment until ??? I didn't say anything because he's a real sharp guy and my sister's husband, but that's the same deal that has my niece still owing $5,000 to the bank on a totaled out car that the insurance company paid $5,000 less than she owed because that's all that they said it was worth.
Be careful, and much good luck.
Mark
Be careful, and much good luck.
Mark
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
The last thing that dealer wants is your old car. If you're willing to give it to him, or better yet pay him to take it off your hands, sure he'll take you up on that. But don't expect to get any reasonable amount for your car on trade-in.
The standard recommendation is to first negotiate a cash price on the car you're buying, then do a bait-n-switch on the dealer by asking "how much will you give me for my trade-in?" Personally, I don't have the chutzpah to pull that, so I don't even bother with trading in my old vehicle. I'd rather give a friend or relative a good deal on a used car than to give it to a dealer for free.
The standard recommendation is to first negotiate a cash price on the car you're buying, then do a bait-n-switch on the dealer by asking "how much will you give me for my trade-in?" Personally, I don't have the chutzpah to pull that, so I don't even bother with trading in my old vehicle. I'd rather give a friend or relative a good deal on a used car than to give it to a dealer for free.
MARK ROBKE
Well-known Member
Randy B,that is exactly how I feel about any dealer.I have bought 2 new vehicles from dealers in my life and both times,felt defiled when I left.I would never,ever buy used from a dealer for the exact same reasons you stated.If the owner can't truthfully,knowledgeably answer my questions I will not buy it,no matter how hard the item was to find,or how good the price.Mark
Congratulations you folks have figured out those figures put out by Kelly or other like places are total garbage. Many times the dealers must pay more for the car or truck at auction than Kelly or other like websites list as fair market value. I deal with this 6 days a week, I also deal with most insurance company's. Also Their way of estimating the value of your wrecked car is criminal. Make sure you have enough insurance coverage to cover what you owe on the car. If the insurance company you are using can't find enough coverage for you RUN away from that company or agent. The coverage is out there. Also if you are in a wreck that is not your fault, their insurance co won't pay the amount owed on the car, look into suing the people that caused the problem. If enough people are taken to court, I would think the insurance company's would have to look at the way they estimate the value of your car or truck. Good luck with your deals and dealing with insurance company's. You are their customer, but if you have a claim, most of them treat you like you are the crook. Any other businesses doing this this would be run out of business within a couple of years.
Me too brother! I've stopped by some lots to look at new cars while in my '66 mustang and the salesman always wind up in a group gawking at the mustang. My wife just chuckles.
I would not trade it for any of this new fangled stuff. Lots more fun to drive and get thumbs up everywhere I go.
farmallsandcoops
Member
Years ago, needed to get rid of a truck payment. Went to a couple different dealerships and found a car at one. Ended up with the sales manager. We both agreed that was probably not a car I was not going to buy. But he got out a NADA black book, and showed me the page with the trade value for my truck. I now knew I had a nice cushion of equity in the truck.
Armed with that info went to another dealer, found a car and wanted to trade even up. They hemmed and hawed and said "oh no... we can't give you that." I said well I know you can give me $x for my truck, I owe this much and the car I want is this much. Even up. The salesman went quickly to the manager and came back and said, "you have a deal." Scowled the whole time we finished up the deal.
Armed with that info went to another dealer, found a car and wanted to trade even up. They hemmed and hawed and said "oh no... we can't give you that." I said well I know you can give me $x for my truck, I owe this much and the car I want is this much. Even up. The salesman went quickly to the manager and came back and said, "you have a deal." Scowled the whole time we finished up the deal.
OK the first mistake most people make when looking up what their car is worth on trade is the actual condition of their car. The book has a description for "excellent, good, fair and poor condition". Plus add or subtract for options or lack of them or mileage. In my experience most people upgrade the condition at least one level. The dealer isn't going to do that. Also local area will make a difference too. Just because your car is worth a certain amount on a national average that means nothing. Plus add in that over about 4 years old most often it's going to auction and they will be lucky to get what they give on trade. Here for example, certain brands are not going to get what the book says it should because the dealer is going to have a hard time reselling it. Most of the local shops won't work on several of them and the nearest dealers are 90 miles.
You have the strongest argument in any car deal, that's walking away. It's rather amusing to have a sale person chase you across the parking lot as you are leaving in my book.
Rick
You have the strongest argument in any car deal, that's walking away. It's rather amusing to have a sale person chase you across the parking lot as you are leaving in my book.
Rick
My sister sold the car in the link to the dealer for $3500.
It is a clean California car but they have it way over priced.
They have come down $1000. They originally had it priced at
$9,599.00.
2006 Scion
It is a clean California car but they have it way over priced.
They have come down $1000. They originally had it priced at
$9,599.00.
2006 Scion
about normal, i recently had the same experience when i replaced our car, nothing wrong with it but miles, and i wanted the wife, who is on the road a lot to have something with way less miles, they wanted full retail for the used jeep we wanted, but offered only 500 bucks for ours, i worked for a dealer for a couple years as a kid in my 20 s so i kind of was expecting this the object is to get a profit on their vehicle, and get yours for nothing when done, which they can resell or wholesale if its worn out, around here mexican nationals come up and will buy nearly anything, since they have nothing in your old car whatever they can get is still profit for them, i offered some less for the jeep, cash in their hand paid in full and no trade in, they took it, i guess since it was a direct pay instead of financed, and sold the old car to the neighbor for his daughter to drive something nice, gave him a steal, but still more than 500 bucks she is still driving the car and loves it
ObsoElitist
Member
The guide books often do not reflect the current market values. I have fought and won against insurance compaies about what fair replacement value really is.
Example, i have a 92 Dodge W350 4x4 diesel dually. NADA (Spanish for the word "nothing) says it is worth between $2950 to $7700. After looking for 5 years, I got mine for $1750. In my region good luck finding one for less than $9000.
Example, i have a 92 Dodge W350 4x4 diesel dually. NADA (Spanish for the word "nothing) says it is worth between $2950 to $7700. After looking for 5 years, I got mine for $1750. In my region good luck finding one for less than $9000.
can't say i've ever traded. Almost did a year ago but they were a bit too low so we ended up keeping it (still driving it too).
I usually use Edmunds for car prices. I'll look at kbb and nada and blacklist if I can. sometimes they match sometimes they don't.
Like others have said with craigslist and e baay and other online markets why bother with a dealer. Yea some guys will park a car in the front yard and expect dealer prices but often don't go too high. THis is a good time to buy I think. short days make it harder for people to look so you should be in the buyers seat.
see if they still have it. call them back and make them another offer without your trade. if they've had it a while they are also more likely to deal. end of year too so they may want to get rid of inventory too.
good luck
I usually use Edmunds for car prices. I'll look at kbb and nada and blacklist if I can. sometimes they match sometimes they don't.
Like others have said with craigslist and e baay and other online markets why bother with a dealer. Yea some guys will park a car in the front yard and expect dealer prices but often don't go too high. THis is a good time to buy I think. short days make it harder for people to look so you should be in the buyers seat.
see if they still have it. call them back and make them another offer without your trade. if they've had it a while they are also more likely to deal. end of year too so they may want to get rid of inventory too.
good luck
That has a lot to do with the insurance laws in each state. Some states have laws that are very much in favor of the insurance companies and others look out for the consumer. MN says replacement cost in the local area. That's generally agreed to be within 50 miles of your door. Unfortunately most people are ignorant of the laws in their state and that sets them up for a fall.
Rick
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