Just had a worring call!!!

There is a younger couple that we met at church. They are having a rough time of it. She had some serious medical issues a while back and that got them really behind the eight ball. They have three kids, 2,7,& 8. He has a fair job but not great one. She can no longer do the work she did before. Their under water on their house and car. Their budget was setup with them both working. So they are just robbing Peter to pay Paul. They have not asked for money and we have not offered any. They had asked an we have given them food/groceries a few times to tide them by until his next check. She just called my wife and asked for some help she had fixed the last of their food this morning. My wife and I packed up a box of stuff. Meat out of our own steers and canned goods we packed this summer. The wife is gone right now as she thought it would be better for her to take it over than me.

My worries: I do not mind in the least helping a couple that is on hard times. I have been there myself. They do seem to be really trying but the fact is that their standard of living is going to be lower than when she had a good job. What help we are giving is just a band aid on a larger wound. So how do you help/advice them on this????? I know that they are going to have to get cheaper housing and a lower cost car. How they do this is where it gets hard to give them advice without PO them.

Also if they are hard up on food today, and he does not get paid until Friday, what type of Thanksgiving are they going to have???? They do not have any family around here that I know of. Then what about Christmas????

When does helping become enabling???? I am thinking of talking to the Pastor and letting him work with them on this. The Church has funds to help people in need. I think that we need to limit our direct help until they figure out how they are going to live cheaper. The sooner they do this the quicker they can start to get back to even again. This a problem I do not know how to help with. If they where totally down and out it is easier to provide them the basics and help to get started. This couple is falling in the middle. I think that they are above any government help too.

When I think of those three kids having a crappy Holiday it makes my heart break. What do you do????

Luckily, they go to church! Perhaps the Pastor can counsel them regarding finances, or help them find a third party that can work with their lenders. They"re more likely to accept his help than others...after all, they"re in the business of helping to find resources for folks in need. You and other church members can still provide aid indirectly. And thank you for doing that!

You answered our own question...talk to the pastor, he can quietly garner support for these folks under the auspices of the church. He can also give them guidance that won't appear as interfering as that guidance you might offer out of the kindness of your own heart. The pastor is also probably better able to get a little Christmas cheer organized for the children.

I understand your dilemma, especially from reading your past posts...you have a kind heart. If you like and respect your pastor, point him in the right direction and let him now you stand at the ready to do whatever you can to help. Keep in touch with him to be sure he is following up.

My church and a few others in nearby towns have food pantries that help those in times of need. Are there any in your area that do the same each week? Bless you for helping now...

A really good minister is a blessing. a mediocre one is not. In my opinion the discussion should be from you, or with you and your wife, to them. Establishing a realistic budget is impossible with car payments and home payments that are out of alignment with earning potential. The children are going to cost more and more as they transition into teen years. Though they won't like it, discussing real financial stability can assist in getting out from under a repossession of either. When individuals feel entitled to an income level, and have experienced it, backing away is difficult. Accepting responsibility is the foundation. Getting into a different home, is reasonable even if less prestige. If it can be done with bank acceptance and no bankruptcy. Trading the expensive to own/operate/insure car to someone so they take over payments and the family gets a reliable older car is one possibility. Enablement in the rebuilding of a positive cash flow direction is flawless, enablement that is continuing their dependence on handouts fails every time for both parties, and teaches bad habits. Best of luck. Jim

Hi jbs, I agree with jms exactly! Good on you for having a heart. Ed will

"When does helping become enabling????"

That's an excellent question which is indeed most relevant BUT IM CONFIDENT you would know when that line was crossed. Calling in other providers (church, community etc) is wise so you dont have to bear all the burden or make all the tough choices.

In my business I provide what I consider some charity or pro bono work in that if the client doesn't have much I don't charge as much or maybe anything, versus a well to do client who I may charge a bit more. The other form of charity I donate to the church where much is used in the local community. I prefer donating LOCAL charity versus the big organized national institutions. What you describe is certainly LOCAL

Best wishes

John T

I was raised to always help the ones in need.As long as they are really trying to help themselves. Have the Pastor talk with them get them to a budget they can afford. Things will have to be cut.Sell off things that they really don't need if they have any.I would do all I could to help the kids through the holidays.Might just help the whole family.If they have a hard time accepting the help (money). Tell them it is a loan that they can work off or pay back in time.

Now if you see them out in a new car. Going out to eat a lot or the kids suddenly have toys beyond their means. The help stops.

Don't they have family? A common thing now is for kids to move back in with parents. We've been helping our kids a lot lately- glad we're there for them.

Is there anyone in your church who could/would sit dn with them to develop a budget and find out exactly where they are financially? If so, that person could do that and also advise you and others within your church family how best to respond to the situation. God bless you for your desire and willingness to help. It could be you or I next month.

Great answers to help you out. I agree wholeheartedly about discussing it with the Pastor and perhaps letting him take the lead. One thing that was not mentioned was "public assistance". I know many people dread even the thought, but it is there for these circumstances unless they make too much money, but its a thought. As for Thanksgiving, if you are able, invite them over I am sure from your experience you know what a blessing it can be. If you are not able, talk to the Pastor, deacon or some other brother and see if someone can take them in. Reminds me of the early church in Acts 2. No doubt they are not alone in their situation. Let your heart lead you.

Life can throw folks a curve ball now and then.

A lot of folks live paycheck to paycheck. Especially young folks. Reducing payment load is not easy. Especially if upside down on loans. If this med condition is going to last a while, they may have no options but bankruptcy. No fault of their own, really, but victims of circumstances. Will starting over be worse than having to depend on others to pay their bills. If not enough income to cover outgo, really few options available.

Invite them over for a meal and casually at the right time mention a few budget tips. Sounds easy but it probably won't be.

As far as Thanksgiving, invite them over for lunch/dinner, and let them take home any leftovers. This will solve the problem of a meal or two, and not seem like your directly helping like you do when "taking" them food.

As far as Christmas, I feel sorry for the kids too, and maybe I'm being cold hearted here, but it's better for them to learn at an early age that life can be tough, than to become spoiled brats later. In other words, not getting a lot, or any toys because the family needs to work together to get through some tough times will be a good lesson. If their old enough to really worry about getting gifts, then they are old enough to get the lesson.

As for the situation as a whole, only they can help themselves out of it, in any meaningful way. If they are trying, then I see no harm in the occasional band aid. If they can't see what needs to be done, and make progress toward it, then it's not your problem.

Again, maybe I'm hard hearted, but I've tried too many times to help people, only to get screwed over in the end. I've come to the conclusion that I'll help people with THEIR problems, but the second it appears it's going to become MY problem, I'm done....

Well I wouldn't let kids go hungry if they were out of groceries that's pretty desperate. Can you help the dad find extra work to supplement their income? I probably wouldn't co sign a loan for them but can you help them refinance the house and car. If upside down on the car maybe help them sell it?

I asked the wife to invite them over to Thanksgiving. They are going to let us know. It was a little complicated as the wife quit doing the feast last year and our one DIL does it now. She is fine with them coming over. I will talk to the Pastor tomorrow. He is a good fellow but he comes from a very wealthy family. So I am not sure he totally understands what being in this situation is all about. I can remember being short on things in the mid 1980s and that is why I took an off farm job. I understand the worry of providing your kids next meal. I grew up with my Mother worrying about these things too. My first wife lived this way her entire childhood. So I am not sure how someone that has not wanted for anything really would understand.

I wish to Thank all the other posters for the support and ideas. I think that the Church should take the lead for any major involvement. We will help that way and may continue some small direct help. They do make too much for any government help. The husband and I have talked about that before as he was upset that there was very little for a middle class family that just needs a little help not the life time support type of stuff.

JDSeller- That sounds like the best decision in this situation.

Hi jbs, I agree with jms exactly! Good on you for having a heart. Ed will

Speaking of living paycheck to paycheck-- I know a guy whose girlfriend had to go for a doctor appointment in a city 30 miles away. That Friday noon he hadn't received his paycheck yet to deposit at the bank and was uptight! He said his girlfriend needed to get gas in the car to drive home and without the deposit into the bank the debit card wouldn't allow her to buy gas! That's cutting it close!

Yes I was also in that fix. The man was in my thinking a worthless sort. But he had a wife and 2 small kids. He called because they were desperate. In an old trailer house with no heat or electric and no food. Dark of night I went and bought a big supply of grocery's. Got to the trailer and seen just how bad it was. I called a Deacon from Church and we got them a pot burner stove and a 55 gal. drum of kerosene took care of them for the night. I went to the Pastor and told him that I don't see any way out for them but the mother and the kids need help. I said if you want to be bothered with it the Deacon and I will stand what ever money is needed but we will only give threw you. He was great and in about a Months time he had it all taken care of. And it didn't break either of us. It's a afoul way to feel but I still think the father is worthless and doesn't want to work very hard. Haven't heard about them in years so I hope they are all well.

Sounds like you've came to a pretty good decision. Your last sentence say's it all for me. I,ve been there plenty of times when I was a kid and don't ever want to see it happen again to anyone. Folks who tell you kids need to learn to suck it up and do without never got to the point as a child when they coulden't even bear to pick up the Sears and Roebuck Christmass catalog because they knew come Christmass morning there would be nothing from it in their house. You know what kids talk about with their cousins and the other school kids after Christmass? It's the toys or games they got. They don't talk about socks and underwear and a few pieces of hard candy so you have to avoid the cousins and be sick at home a couple days after Christmass break so you don't have to join the conversation back in school. I can guarantee you anyone who's ever been there doesn't want to see it happen to another child.

gtractorfan: A lot of people live that way these days. Many times it is just poor management on their parts. They have more wants than needs for most. In the case I am talking about I do not think that is the trouble. The medical issue really through them for a loop. It is happening to many families these days. You see fliers for benefits every week for people with medical issues that side rail them.

M-Man: I was never that bad off as a kid and my kids where not either but my first wife had Christmas without any gifts several times. That effected her until the day she died. No kid she knew of was going to go without a gift of some type.

Agree, in many if not most cases the trouble is self-inflicted. In the case of the guy I mentioned, he's divorced, paying child support, doesn't stay home much etc. etc.

Keep in mind that Jesus helped many people who were in situations that He knew full well that were there own fault. The woman at the well in one such example. Helping others are what we are called to do regardless of whose fault it is. Involving the wider community of the church is a great suggestion. Hopefully many benefit from the situation.

JD, besides talking to the Pastor, check with your local Sheriff/Police & Fire Departments; Hositals; other Church denominations and organizations; Civic Organizations; Fraternal Lodges such as Elks, Moose, Masons or Shriners; Military/Veterans Organizations such as VFW, DAV, or Marine Corps Assistance League; all have programs to assist families & individuals in need & provide toys for poor/homeless children at Christmas. Also check on local Community Food Banks. The rural community here where I live has at least 5 Food Banks, and our local Community Coalition puts on a Thanksiving & Christmas Dinner that is open to the ENTIRE community irreardless of your need or social status; and it's all done with Volunteers and donated supplies.

I think you are in the right track. IMHO - your supporting role should be a team member of the Church. Yes - if there is a desperate situation, immediate aid is appropriate to the extent it's not abused. It's easy to be harsh on those in need - but at the same time where to find the balance can be tough too.

Probably being a financial adviser might be a better/more useful role. I'd start with a 2 part cash gift. Dave Ramsey's Total Money Make Over book and when they finish reading it AND can speak to the content of the book, a second cash gift - towards their emergency fund. Out of this, you have standing to advise - sell the car and buy something cheaper. You have standing to advise - take a 2nd or even 3rd job. At this point IMHO - you are being very compassionate, enabling the family and helping them understand and take charge.

If there is public assistance available - they should seek it out. No shame in that - we all pay into it and if there is a person otherwise playing by the rules and need that help I see no shame in asking for it.

All the best!
Bill

I don't know about Thanksgiving but thinking ahead to Christmas you may want to contact the Marine Corps League "Toys for Tots" program. There are warehouses full of toys from all the years of collecting them.

How can this be? We should be living in a utopia by now.

Things are a lot tougher than we are being led to believe.

My health ins. is going up over $1200 a year. Wonder where that is going to come from?

It is a tough challenge trying to help a couple and still have them maintain their dignity.

Friend of mine was in the old East Germany a few years ago and commented to a local that it looked shabbier in the area than the rest of the country. He wasn't really thinking of the reason.

The local said that "it takes a long time to develop your pride, and once you loose it, it is very difficult to get it back"

He didn't mean pride in a boastful way, but pride in ownership, country, self esteem, etc.

Communism ruined the pride of the East Germans.

Gene

Make sure they are getting any assistance they can. Food bank, HEAP (heat help),food stamps etc. Can you give her a part time job? Find her a job. A lot depends upon if they are really trying and want to work or are just working the system.