Buying, Selling and trading???

Many of you know I buy and sell equipment of all sizes. It is just something that I like to do. I enjoy making a something "right" and then selling it for a profit. That maybe just a lawn mower or a full sized tractor.

In the fall I usually buy some lawn mowers. I know when the dealers around me are close to their year end business wise. So I will look at the ones that need little things to be done to make them sell better. Most of these dealers limit what they run through the shop on lawn mowers anymore as the $100 an hour shop rate really can eat a sales profit up pretty fast on a lawn mower.

So I bought a group of three mowers at a dealership. Two of the three really just need gone over and things made/adjusted right. They really did not need much. The third I bought with a supposedly bad transmission. I got it cheap and really did not even look it over too close as I have one of the same model with a bad motor. So I just planned on trading the motors. I got to looking at the mower and all that was wrong is a broken drive belt. I had one on hand. Mower runs and works fine.

Now the issue. I started to clean it up and detail it before I store it until spring. I found the operators book in the tool box. Inside of it was an estimate/quote for repairing the mower. It was for $1750. This is maybe a $2500-3000 mower in good running condition. So I can see someone just trading it off over a "BIG" repair bill. The prior owner's name was on the quote. It is a younger lady that lost her husband about two years ago in a grain bin accident. They had just bought a farm and had 3 kids all under five years old. I have heard she is having a tough time financially. Her husband did a lot of business with the dealership that I bought the mower from. So that dealership's service or sales department took advantage of her in my opinion. All her mower needed was a $40 belt and maybe an hour of shop time to install it, maybe $150 repair. You can see the drive belt by just bending down and looking under the fuel tank. Not tough to diagnose.

So I am pretty upset with that dealership right now. Also I really do not feel right about being involved with this either. I know I had nothing to do with the original deal but it just does not feel right to me. It is kind of like making money off a widow's naivety.

Think I should talk to the dealership owner about this??? I know him personally. What do you guys think???

(quoted from post at 21:36:12 10/20/15) Many of you know I buy and sell equipment of all sizes. It is just something that I like to do. I enjoy making a something "right" and then selling it for a profit. That maybe just a lawn mower or a full sized tractor.

In the fall I usually buy some lawn mowers. I know when the dealers around me are close to their year end business wise. So I will look at the ones that need little things to be done to make them sell better. Most of these dealers limit what they run through the shop on lawn mowers anymore as the $100 an hour shop rate really can eat a sales profit up pretty fast on a lawn mower.

So I bought a group of three mowers at a dealership. Two of the three really just need gone over and things made/adjusted right. They really did not need much. The third I bought with a supposedly bad transmission. I got it cheap and really did not even look it over too close as I have one of the same model with a bad motor. So I just planned on trading the motors. I got to looking at the mower and all that was wrong is a broken drive belt. I had one on hand. Mower runs and works fine.

Now the issue. I started to clean it up and detail it before I store it until spring. I found the operators book in the tool box. Inside of it was an estimate/quote for repairing the mower. It was for $1750. This is maybe a $2500-3000 mower in good running condition. So I can see someone just trading it off over a "BIG" repair bill. The prior owner's name was on the quote. It is a younger lady that lost her husband about two years ago in a grain bin accident. They had just bought a farm and had 3 kids all under five years old. I have heard she is having a tough time financially. Her husband did a lot of business with the dealership that I bought the mower from. So that dealership's service or sales department took advantage of her in my opinion. All her mower needed was a $40 belt and maybe an hour of shop time to install it, maybe $150 repair. You can see the drive belt by just bending down and looking under the fuel tank. Not tough to diagnose.

So I am pretty upset with that dealership right now. Also I really do not feel right about being involved with this either. I know I had nothing to do with the original deal but it just does not feel right to me. It is kind of like making money off a widow's naivety.

Think I should talk to the dealership owner about this??? I know him personally. What do you guys think???

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Talk to him. Could be a lazy mechanic or a deal run between a mechanic and sales person if the dealership is big enough.

When I was working as a mechanic had a woman come in with an estimate from another shop for about 100 bucks to replace the pinion input shaft seal, rear axle of her front wheel drive car. Young single mom with a deadbeat ex. I know the owner of the other shop and took the estimate in and showed him. One of his mechanics was doing some work at night out of his shed and told her he could do it at home for half. I watched with great satisfaction as the mechanic packed up his tools. The owner wasn't nearly as amused as I was. I think if he could have gotten away with it he would have given the guy a beating.

Rick

That is just not right ripping people off like that. I wonder if the owner really knows what's going on in his business. I think if it were me I would have a talk to him. This goes on all the time. Daughter took her almost new Saturn in for a oil change. The quick oil place talked her into buying a set of spark plug wires. Stan

JD,
If it were me, and knowing the lady like you say you do, I would take the mower back to her and if she wanted it back,give it to her free of charge. It's the Christian thing to do,in my humble opinion. Plus it's a charitable thing to help the widow out,as I'm guessing she's trying to mow with a push mower,if moneys tight, if that. Talking to the dealer probably won't do any good, but it will raise your blood pressure for sure.There is nothing in it for the dealer to make sure the repairman diagnose the problems right. If they don't charge enough to pay for their shop,building and salaries, they won't be in business long,and some customer would have paid that amount. If the dealership fixed the problem, do you think they would tell the customer, "Sorry, we made a mistake and it was only the drive belt and you owe less than the estimate" or do you think they would keep their (dealership) mouth shut and charge the full price of the estimate? I would bet the latter,but thats me,as I have had bad dealings with more than a few different dealers.

Like I said, I would make it right with the widow first, as she was the one who was hurt the worst in this situation,but thats me.
You can try talking to the dealer personally,but I'm sure it will happen again,and it will go unspoken,and no repercussions with the repairman will ever happen.
All that I said here is just my opinion and what I would do,it all lies with what you feel comfortable doing.
LOU

Sounds bad on the surface.

The missing piece is if someone in the shop is running a scam then why didn't they fix the mower themselves and sell it at a nice profit?
If they made the money by selling her a new mower then the scam may involve several people.

Was the quote based on a worst case scenario and made on bad diagnostics? Is the quote itemized?

Several things could be a play here but I agree it sure looks suspicious.

I definitely believe you should let the dealer know that you know, and see how that plays out. If his reaction is hinky, let him know that everybody you know is going to know what you and he know. What you might do from that point is up to you.

The owner will deny any knowledge of the issue and may, indeed, not be knowledgeable.

That said, someone should have a talk with the service manager.

No doubt, the service department is a profit center and likely the service manager is at least partially compensated according to the profit made in the department.

Over the years, I have had few if any issues with tractor, equipment, auto, etc. sales departments. ALL of the issues that I have had involved service departments, and some were out right egregious.

Dean

I have definitely noticed that since all the consolidation in the industry many mega dealers don't even want to fool with lawn mowers and such things. It may be as simple as the Lady took it in and told them it would not pull and they immediately said the transmission needs replacing -- that will be 1750 bucks, maybe not so much due to wanting to rip her off but because they simply did not want to fool with it and they new the price would not be accepted. I think if it was a straight rip off of an unsuspecting Lady they would have double dipped, sold her a new one and fixed that one for 40 bucks and then resold for a big profit, the fact that they sold it to you seems to indicate they had no interest and consider it small potatoes. Now if someone involved in the deal knew the particular circumstances of the Lady in question then they should have made an exception and checked it out real good and fixed it, I doubt the owner has personal knowledge of every deal that takes place from day to day.

What may or may not have happened at the dealer's, you may never actually know and may not want to get involved.
But I think Lou has it right, approach the widow and offer her the mower. Might be more to her than just some other different lawn mower, might be a recognition to her that there's good people out there. She might tell her kids, how honest some people are, and it might have a real big impact on them.

Put the drive belt on and make that is all it is. Without testing it out you are making the assumption that the only thing wrong is the belt.

I think you should tell the dealership owner. Something is rotten in Denmark, and he needs to make it right. You'll know from how he responds to you whether or not he's a man with whom you want to continue to do business.

I live in a small community and know all of the businesses. I do not like bids or estimates. I only ask at a time of repair or other services is will be this repair be worthwhile. Find an honest man, yes they are out there, and pay him what he charges.

Tough call.
If you tell the dealer's owner about the mechanic's blown call, the young mechanic who had just bought a farm and has three small kids could be out of a job.
That decision would be one to sleep on.

JD, It is not worth lossing sleep over and going after the dealer, it is water under the bridge. But if you have a big heart give the lady the profit you made from selling the mower. Also as Andyinct said check everything and make sure it is only the belt.

I would put a few hours on that mower before you make any desisions about it. There may be more to the story of the mower than you you know. Possibly she called in for service said the belt broke, but before that happened it has been slowing down after mowing for two hours. Possibly the engine starts fogging for mosquitoes after an hour of run time. It is likely that mower was never at the dealer prior to being picked up after a trade. If they were running a scam, they would have taken care of it themselves. I personally can't believe you have a dealer that will sell worn trades reasonably. Most want top dollar or just let them rot. No glory in dragging someone's name through the mud when the whole story is not known.

There are a lot of dishonest people out there, that's for sure. If I were in your shoes, and feeling the way you are, I'd go talk to her about it. Maybe she'd like the mower. I'm guessing she has a new one though. Maybe offer to sell it, and give her the proceeds. A check might go over better than the mower.

And maybe she'll raise h&&^% with the dealer!!!

I don't know what I'd do with the dealer, I guess it depends on your relationship with him.

You are a good man for being upset over this. Let us know what happens.

I think you're starting to figure out why I switched brands because of the dealer. The only choice to get away from that kind of thing is to switch brands. You know as well as I do that there's no choice of dealers unless you do.

This statement of yours....
"Also I really do not feel right about being involved with this either."
is pretty much the whole story.
If you know the lady and her difficulties, give her the mower.
Whether she uses it or sells it to get some needed cash, doesn't matter.
We've all lost money on this deal or that....it's more important to be able to look in the mirror every morning.
(if you just can't afford to do that, sell the mower now that it is fixed, and give her a cut.)

The dealer
If you just have a business relationship, I'd stay silent. won't do any good anyway....but I'd file it in my memory.
a friend? I'd mention the story over a beer with him, no names,
no paper (I threw it away)....no ratting.
just basic info on the over-estimate. his dealership, his responsibility to check out how it is being run.

My uninformed guess is that the dealer wants to sell new equipment, not repair old.

The mechanics might also be either incompetent or told not to spend any time diagnosing problems.

My neighbor bought two nice zero turn mowers that the local dealer's mechanics couldn't get to run. One had a blown fuse, the other had the seat set so far back that the safety interlock switch wouldn't close. The dealer could have sold those mowers for several thousand dollars but gave up on them.

I would agree that you should use that mower for a while before making any decision and assure yourself there is not something else wrong with that mower.

That's been a common practice at dealerships and repair shops that sell new units forever
give a big repair quote or 'can't get parts anymore' to get them to trade in new.
Blindly believing a dealer or anyone else is going to cost the ones that do just the way it goes.In this World if a person doesn't look out for themselves no one else will.And I'm sure you'll be back on in a few days posting how you went to the woman and made it all right.

Many, many years ago before I got out of that business, I repaired some furnace blower motors and advertised them for sale. I got two calls, both turned out to be poor widows that were going without heat because they couldn't afford a furnace repairman. I not only gave them the blower motors, I went to their houses and installed the motors so they could have heat. That wasn't a profitable business, but I felt good about it just the same.

I would just give here the mower . Not the smart thing to do for making profit on mower but hopefully can make it back on the other ones. And not say anything to dealership

Give her back the mower at no charge. You'll feel allot better about it. Then talk to the dealer and let him know what you think about it.

Based on my experience as a used tractor truck and implement and RV dealer for 40 years or so I WOULDNT CONFRONT THE DEALER. I learned the hard way to take care of myself and my customers and let the chips fall. Their business is their business and yours is yours, they dont have the right to tell you what to do and likewise its not your place to tell them. Read the "Serenity Prayer" take a deep breath and let go and let God.

John T

That way he'll b sure to never get any other mowers from that dealer again for sure.

The only thing not mentioned (at least I didn't read it) is to ask the lady to "keep it under her hat" with the dealer since he might be upset with you as a friend. That is if you give her the mower if she wants it and you value your business dealings with this dealer.

have not read all comments but I like yours best ,,. Jd ,,they probably replaced the mower ,, but ya never know ,..the good book says we should look after widows and orphans ,,. as far sthe dealer ,,.ity depends on the personality,.if you have a decent god fearing dealer , by all means I would tell him , or better yet if you have a warm relationship with the guy that wrote the quote,,. state the facts privately and let it go , never repeat it for hearsay to get traction ,on the other hand ,,snaz was our dealer for 40 yrs here ,,. I could see them doing that mistake and not blinkin a eye ,, and if i called them out on it , we would be icey to each other for life ,... btw ,,.. I have a NEW axle for a j deere rider , that I got at auction to keep from falling in scrappers hands . hanging up in garage help me find someone who needs it . probably will never get it placed ,

Well the dealer likely didn't want to mess around figuring out what was wrong and gave a worst case scenario. Did they sell her a "new" mower ? If they did then this lady is good to go !
What models is it ? The dealer may know this is one of the JD models with junk rear ends that they build now and assumed it was shot.
I would discreetly find out if the lady traded it in for another mower or if she left it there for the dealer because she could not afford to fix it or get another mower. She may of traded it in and who knows maybe the dealer cut her a special deal ? If she got a mower from that dealer I'd stay out of it. If she still needs a mower than sell her that one at your costs or give it to her if you wish ? If you find out she left it at the dealer for free and the dealer sold it to you then you best go have a talk to that dealer and have him refund you and tell him you are giving it back to her.

I'm 100% convinced that body shops at auto dealerships do that. Even though the insurance is paying for it,when you see how much the costs are,you'll think it's not worth it,"I might as well go up front and buy a new one.". I almost fell for it myself when the dealer body shop quoted over $8500 for a broken piece of plastic. I came to my senses when I took it to a shop that wasn't on State Farm's list of approved shops and they quoted around $1700. I won't go back to that dealer for anything again.

I would think, he said he knew the owner personally, that it could be done in a diplomatic way as to not have an effect on his future dealings with him.
I've complained to the owner of a couple of dealers over the years but it never seem to have an effect on the future purchases I had with them afterwards.
Its just my opinion on the matter.

If you were that lady, OR if she was your wife, I wonder what you would want done? I think we are to look out for our fellow man (widows) and do not know of many people in her situation that are not really hurting for money and/or support, although that may not be the case here. You have been blessed in so many ways, materially, mentally, financially, family and if I were you, I would want to help her out. (Ok - I know I am not you but you seem to want to do the right thing) If you would have wanted someone to give it to your wife to restore faith in humanity (which this poor lady may need) then do what your heart is tugging you to do. (It is possible she may also have sentimental value there also)
Now you as a dealer. If you had a crew working for you and this happened to your business, how would you want this to be handled? I can easily see how it could have been not diagnosed properly if it was brought in and the salesman or someone similar put it in gear and nothing happened. Only you have a face to face with the dealer to be able to read his intentions, whether it is a big time big shot or a caring overworked owner who trusts his own people. Personally I think you are the only one that has had the opportunity to see and read his character. If they were out to get everybody or rip people off I think they would have fixed the mower and sold it if they knew that was all that was wrong with it. (assuming you are confident that really is all that is wrong) That is probably well over $1200 they threw away by letting you have it, more than they would make selling a NEW unit. Sharks usually do not leave that much money on the table. Everybody is different but if I were the dealer I would want to know about it and I would see how that happened. You know how hard it is to get good reliable help these days and if it was a mistake (possible) in his staff he may want to do the right thing and educate/train or dispose of the person. Only you can read his character to have an idea of his truthfulness.

(quoted from post at 07:02:35 10/21/15) Tough call.
If you tell the dealer's owner about the mechanic's blown call, the young mechanic who had just bought a farm and has three small kids could be out of a job.
That decision would be one to sleep on.

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If the young mechanic is that lazy or incompetent he deserves it. He has done it to himself. No sympathy whatsoever.

I would either give the lady back her mower if she still needed one. I would eat the cost of the belt and buying it. Or if she has a mower I would sell it and give her the money. Just my 2 cents

If you want the lowdown on State Farm, read some auto body trade magazines from a few years ago. I haven't checked on the situation lately.

If you wanted to be on State Farm's approved list of shops, you basically discarded your own business ethics and sold your soul to State Farm.

I would sit down with dealer and discuss what you found, not bring it up to widow, might just humiliate her.

I enjoy reading the replies. Tells me a lot about how different people think, and their view of
ethics, morals, business relationships, income generation, etc.

Years ago a guy I work with had a shop estimate of over $1200 for his mower just to get it ready for spring mowing.....I told him of a guy that works on them at his home of evenings and it was less than $300.....I'm glad that I can do most of my own work..

... what they run through the shop on lawn mowers anymore as the $100 an hour shop rate really can eat a sales profit

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$100 an hour shop rate for small engine/lawnmower repair is nuts. Average is probably under $75. Dealers would rather rather turn away service business than charge reasonable rates. My local JD service dept. is never busy yet they turn their nose up at working on older equipment or power equipment.

I like your reply Steve and I would talk to the dealer too. Yes there is stuff too busted up and there is no way you throw $90 into a $100 machine. That lady just did not know and I would be glad to go see her with a mower in tow.

When I see or hear of these obscenely overpriced repair estimates, it makes my blood boil.

Imagine yourself in the position of the poor widow. She most likely needed the mower, didn't have a lot of money, and the dealer hands her a repair estimate that is way more money than she can put into this machine. So, what does she do??? Well, after that sick feeling in the pit of the stomach settles down a bit, she bites the bullet and goes into debt to buy a replacement with her broken one as a trade in. Hmmmmmm so she gets nothing for her trade, a bit of a discount on a new or used machine, and figures that she did the best she could. Dealer takes advantage of a person that is not knowledgeable about their equipment, and you end up in the aftermath....

Let me tell you a couple of similar stories....

A woman comes to me with a car problem. Broke a timing belt, bent the valves, and the shop wants $2400 to fix it. Car is older, but in otherwise pristine condition. I told her what the repair SHOULD cost, and what I would fix it for. She was shocked at the difference in price.

Another guy comes to me with a question about why he cannot pass inspection. Check engine light is on. Code indicated a leak in the fuel system. Repair shop told him that it would cost $1000 to replace his fuel tank. I offered to do the diagnosis that the repair shop did not do. What I found was a crack in the filler neck that cost about $40 to replace.

Moral to the story is this:

I DESPISE short answers and "shoot from the hip" diagnosis. When there is a problem, the only PROPER way to deal with it is proper diagnosis. Sometimes that is difficult, unpleasant, and time consuming. That does not excuse not doing it.

Now, having said all of that, you have an opportunity to set things right.

Talking to the dealer would probably be a waste of time. They obviously have a basic honesty problem - or at least one or more of their employees has an honesty problem.

You could also talk to the lady that was defrauded and find out the rest of the story. Did she have to buy a new machine? Does she still need a machine? You could offer to split any profit you might make from it or you could offer her the machine back for what you have invested in it.

Let your conscience be your guide. At least now you know what kind of a dealer you are dealing with.

Ya,the shop that did the repairs was on their list for about a month. The owner filled me in on the whole thing. He said he couldn't get off their list fast enough to suit him.

Come on Ron,he's a bigger man than that. He wrote a big reply to a post not too long ago about how the things these dealers do is our own fault for letting them get away with it. If I know JDSeller from his posts,he'll tell the dealer what he thinks of his business practices,even if it means he can never step foot inside the door again,then he'll give the mower to the widow with no thanks expected.
It's all the right thing to do and he'll do it. You just wait and see. He might have to change his name to CaseIH seller,but that's OK.

(quoted from post at 06:43:15 10/21/15) JD, It is not worth lossing sleep over and going after the dealer, it is water under the bridge. But if you have a big heart give the lady the profit you made from selling the mower. Also as Andyinct said check everything and make sure it is only the belt.

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Yup. I'd talk to the lady first. See if she'd rather have the mower or the profit from the sale. I'd rather get the story from her first before making accusations.

If she's in a tough spot, give her the mower if you can or offer it to her at what you have in it if she still needs one. You can tell her what was needing fixed and how easy it was. You don't even need to talk to dealership, if it's like around here, the story will get there on its own.

Benefit of the doubt here, is it a transmission that is weak when it gets hot or some other nagging issue that caused the belt to break? Otherwise I would be half tempted to give her the mower back. Word will get around who the good guy is.

Very interesting thread. A couple of things that I've learned over the years is that #1 - no good deed goes unpunished, and #2 - there are always at least two sides to a story.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard a story that makes it sound like a clear case that somebody did bad. But then you hear the other side of the story and it turns out there were other factors that you didn't know or even could imagine that makes it not so clear.

JD, I have been reading your posts for many years and I have a very high opinion of you. I think most of us on this board would like to see justice served, and most of us have formed an opinion how we'd like to see it done. But some have pointed out that there could be other problems with the mower. For example, maybe the mower transmission has a problem that makes it break that belt, and they were tired of replacing $40 belts that only last a short time.

And you never know how other people will react. Maybe if you told the lady or even if you fixed the mower and gave it back to her, she might go pick a fight with the service manager and drag you (or your name) into the middle of it.

I can't offer an opinion on this matter because I don't feel that I know enough of the story. But I do want to share with you the two things I pointed out and urge you to tread carefully through this potential minefield.

But if he doesn't do the right thing because he won't be able to buy any more cheap mowers from him that he can turn a profit on,doesn't that make him just as bad as the "friend" that he's complaining about? Putting his own profit ahead of doing what's right?

If it were me I'd approach it this way: I'd go to the lady and say " I understand you just purchased a new mower from (brand X dealer) and wanted to see how you like it" that would open the door for her to you about her "Deal" ! Than you'll know just how to handle it ! Either you tell her she got cheated OR just maybe she might be related to the dealer,who knows!! If she gives the right answers,you'll know how to go from there. Just my .02 Cents......Jim in N.M.

I'd think going right to the guy who did the estimate would be the thing to do first. If the transmission is bad and tearing up belts,I'd want to know before I put a new one on and tried to sell it.
That new AC lawn tractor that I bought in the spring of 14 has torn up 6 belts on the deck. They kept selling me belts off the rack instead of factory originals and they didn't hold up. The service manager finally called the factory about that one. They said they knew they had a problem with them and they were working on an update kit for them.
This last new belt was OEM and it's held up longer than any others. It's been on there since early July now,so maybe there really is a problem with the transmission on the one in question and the guy who looked at it would be the one to ask.

After reading all responses below, I agree with others that you really don't yet have all the parts of the puzzle. Once you do, I'm sure you'll make the right call. However this plays out, I think we will all like to hear "the rest of the story".

I agree in that there may be unknowns about the situation. Also, we do not know the roles of the mechanic, service manager, and store owner in this. There may be more history to this machine than is currently known. At this point it could be shenanigans by the dealer or it may be the machine was not worth fixing based on an honest assessment. We do not live in big farm country here so the area dealers that have a garden tractor franchise tend to take care of those customers instead of twiddling their thumbs until the BTO's show up with their new machine orders. It probably makes a difference for the Deere dealers here because they service the big city markets of Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse which provides quite a base for consumer products.

After having a few minutes to reflect on this I remember a couple of conversations from many years back. I recall a couple of dealers when asked about why they dropped their lawn and garden line replied that in part it was the shop running at a loss to handle them. I can remember working at Central Tractor back in the day that many people pushed issues that were in no way warranty issues and the same most likely is true with a Deere or Cub Cadet shop. There was a set rule in that a CT store was not to take a mower back under any circumstance but a few times a season a mower would be taken back. If the manager was considered a "good" manager he would get a 15 minute reaming over the phone about it and if he was not considered a "good" manager that would be one of three strikes he would get before he would be canned. It takes a lot of people skills to make a lawn and garden/ consumer products dealership to work at a profit. A farmer may looking to just be "treated right" where a city person goes in not caring whether he has a working relationship when the dust settles.

Why not return it to the dealer for a refund, telling them what minimal problems you found? Then leave it to them to deal with the woman. If the dealer personnel have a conscience, they will see your good deed and pass it on to the woman by making things right with her. My heart goes out to anyone being taken advantage of, but in this situation it is very hard to get all of the facts (what the woman's initial reason for trading was, why it was overlooked at the dealership, etc.) from any party's point of view...

Yep there are certain models of Deere's causing their owners ALOT of grief from bad transmissions. Google it and you will get all sort of info on these.

You have to try to find out what the complaint on the transmission was and if this young lady got a different mower because of it . Can't really do anything until you know that.

This has been a very interesting read. When I was a jockey in the machinery business, I never stopped some one from paying too much in a deal. I also remember giving a few things away. Yes even a tractor so the farmer could pull his feeder wagon, And this man had troubles no man would want. He did save the farm and got going again, Thank god. And I also want to say it was not because of my help. I don't want any praise for it. Just saying. Any way this JD Seller has been on here for a lot of years and I have got a lot of respect for his statements and advice, So I am sure he will work this out to the best solution. And I expect him to share it with us so we can learn something. Thanks Jack

(quoted from post at 13:14:23 10/21/15) I would agree that you should use that mower for a while before making any decision and assure yourself there is not something else wrong with that mower.

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This. Might be more wrong than a bad belt.

I think if it were me I would run a bunch of hours versus just a few to know that there are not other problems BEFORE I talked to the woman. Further, operating characteristics may come into play because she may push the unit much harder than JD might. I know people that have found the hard way that something winds up needing much more than a belt or spark plug. A friend found that out with an ATV years ago.

try running a small engine mower shop for living. you said you got it cheap so resale it and go on. prior owner has nothing to do with it now. how many more cheap mowers do you want. said it was maybe 2000 3000 in good running condition. for that same price new can be bought and have 3 to 5 year warranty. that why alot of mowers are a very tough resale.

Amen!

I find jumping to conclusions is a bad exercise. Unless a person has ALL the facts, they can do much more harm than good. May be a reason the belt broke. Mower may be a lemon and the lady is fed up with spending on it. Numerous scenarios here besides the dealer being a crook. Two sides (or more) to every story.

Hello JD Seller,

You can't fix the world! Sale it, profit, move on!

Guido

Part of it is the quality of the "mechanics" we have now a days. Kids don't grow up fixing things, those who want to be mechanics often start out to late. But on the other hand look at what many of these mega dealers are paying for "mechanics". I was between jobs and applied to a lawn & garden dealer, heck it had been about 20 years since I wrenched on lawn equipment, I could of went to work in 2004 for $2.00 more than I was earning in 1983.

Part of it is business ethics or even to be kinder business models. I was royally upset about 6 months ago, one of our cars is a 1991 Honda Accord, being a 1991 it has the passive restraint system, or the motorized seat belts that move from the front of the door by the "A" pillar back to the "B" pillar. When I mentioned that that looked like trouble on the hoof and maybe I'd look elsewhere for a car the dealer assured me they were lifetime guaranteed, showed me in the owner's manual. Well to make a long story short about 6 months ago the warning system decided I wasn't wearing my seatbelt and would chime a very annoying chime about anytime it felt like. Yes I was wearing my lap belt and the automatic belt was returning all the way to the home position. I tried disconnecting the warning device, the only way to get the light and chime to stop also stopped the belts from working, hey I wanted to wear my belt. I took to to our local dealer, yup there's a warranty and if you give us $100 to "Diagnose" it we'll tell you if it's covered, AND while we have it in our service bay we'll go over it from stem to stern and tell you about the lights not working and the hoses and belts we think should be replaced and tell you how dirty the coolant is and how you need a radiator flush and a transmission flush, a tune up and a timing belt and on and on. Of course if I don't buy the transmission flush and the coolant flush (by the way the coolant is about 2 years old with maybe 15,000 miles on it) and all the other stuff I don't need the seat belts won't be covered under warranty, in effect they would of collected $100 to prepare an estimate for work I didn't need and the hope of not having to listen to the chime might make me do it. I declined, I figured it would end up costing me more than the car was worth and it probably still wouldn't be fixed. I'm not sure what I did but I got the chime and light to stop, the belts still work as does the warning light and chime should you not buckle up.

I guess what I'm saying is folks scream when you charge them to diagnose stuff. Used to be the diagnostic was built in to the price or at least the shop rate. But taking care of customers sure cuts into the bottom line. I think it's partially a carry over from the new car business where it's about sales and making you numbers and not so much what the customer wants or needs, I think it's partially an effect from all the big box store units that many of these dealers end up repairing units for little or no profit as a requisite for them to keep their franchise. I also suppose equipment is more complex, our current education system pushes about anyone with talent or intelligence away from the trades and flat rate is a way of paying your employees that also tends to reduce their incentive to take care of the customer. And I suppose some of it's is price your work high especially when guessing, if the customer agrees you'll make money, should you find out you where wrong and it was cheaper most folks don't complain to hard when you charge them less.

As for what to do, you've always seemed to be a stand up guy in business, I'm sure you'll do what's right. If you halfway know the widow I'd nonchalantly mention to her you have her mower and ask her what was wrong with it that she parted with it. Feel it out, it may of been a decision she was pressured into, maybe not. If it appears that the dealer took advantage of her without blaming the dealer you might recommend to her she go elsewhere for service. Whether you give her her mower back or split the profits or give her what it really was worth before repair is up to you. As I've said before you seem to be an honorable man, if you feel good about doing it it's probably the right thing to do.