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Messy situation here, Deputy crossbowed subject shot

R

RayP(MI)

Well-known Member
Just about 4 miles down the road from us, police trying to arrest a guy on a assault charge. Subject shoots deputy with crossbow, state officer shoots and kills subject. Much more to the story, see the news release below. I know the deputy, not well, but...
No LEO deserves this. Scary thing is how close to home this is. These things aren't supposed to happen here.

http://woodtv.com/2015/10/10/authorities-investigate-shooting-of-montcalm-co-officer/
News report WOOD TV
 
The way I read the story one guy went on another guys property thinking he was a bad hombre and then found out he had bitten off more than he could chew and got the worst end of the fight. Instead of learning his lesson and going on home he turned around and cried wolf to the Sheriffs department who then overreacted as all police organizations seem prone to do these days and now there is a Deputy severely wounded and a citizen dead while the person who started it all has a band aid on his boo-boo.
 
I still don't know what's going on? I've been following this since yesterday morning. Did the State Cop kill the guy? How fast was he going to reload a crossbow? That's what investigators are going to want to know anyway.

The one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb though,is that there was dope involved. Want to bet $10,000 that the guy who had the stuff had a "prescription" for it? These doped up idiots make my blood boil!
 
15 miles south of Ray in my neighborhood. Those dopers have even gone so far as try to take over township government here.
 
I think a key point here is a (crossbow, Bow, muzzleloader, etc) put it in to the category of lethal weapon or a deadly force situation. Not sure on "how long to reload" will hold up.
 
Not saying I'm shedding a single tear for the lowlife that's assumed room temperature,but investigators are going to want to know how much imminent danger the other officers were in after he fired off the arrow.
 
These guys didn't get here on a purple school bus. They're so messed up most of the time,they don't know if they're afoot or horseback.
 
I'm sorry. Around midnight, so it was dark. Officers in a life and death scenario are supposed to assess his ability to reload or whether or not he has additional weapons? In the dark? In just a few seconds? An officer had been fired upon and was down. I will support our state trooper all the way on this one.
 
RRLund I have dealt with this in the past and its not easy and decisions are made in a split second!! The investigation will be massive. I am sure some one can reload an arrow in a few seconds (mechanical fire order) Here is one for you: A KNIFE: IF YOU ARE MORE THAN ARMS REACH AWAY YOU ARE NOT A THREAT RIGHT? MOST TESTS SHOW A KNIFE YIELDING PERSON CAN COVER 21 FEET BEFORE YOU CAN DRAW AND ACTIVATE YOUR SIDEARM. Also in the crossbow situation they might not have known if he had anymore weapons available. Where I differ in these situations is why they don't back off and wait him out or use other methods like tear gas stun gun concusion grenade and so on seems they turn deadly to quick!!! Also he refused to submit to arrest or follow the troopers order like come out with your hands up etc.
 
Well it may be just me but if I'm law enforcement and a lunatic is bold/drugged enough to shoot me with a crossbow , then I'm figuring he probably has back-up in his pocket and I, for one, am NOT going to wait until I see it. If the man wants me dead he ain't gettin' a second chance,period.
 
I don't disagree at all. I'm just trying to play devils advocate here and imagine what that trooper is going to go through. Before it's over,he might be wishing he was the one who took the arrow in the side instead of getting the rectal exam that he's going to be in for.
It's like the instructor told my son when he got his concealed carry permit,yes,you can shoot somebody if they come in to your home,but if there's ANY way to escape and avoid it,do it. You might be found innocent when it's all over with,but with what they'll put you through,you'll be wishing you'd never taken the shot.
 
I woulden't care if it was on the courthouse lawn at high noon. Shooting a police officer doing his job should get a deadly response every time.
 
Wouldn't most citizens be a little nervous if their neighbor came over (3 times) and accused them of stealing his marajuana plants? I sure would not be happy to have a grower next door and that illegal and goofy group of folks hanging around my neighborhood. My right to a peaceful life, with law and order, requires both laws and someone to enforce order (police).
 
In this day and time I think that as long as a police officer or a citizen shoots a WASP there is nothing to worry about but God help them if they have to cap anyone who looks and smells like they just rode in on a camel, or is still dripping from swimming the rio grande or who could have been zerobammy's son.
 
Just talked to my neighbor to the west. Turns out this Travis Quay fellow lived in a trailer house just down the road and across the field from us. I could bounce .22 rounds off that trailer from my back porch. Thankfully, he moved on, and I lost track of him. But now it all comes back. That was several years ago, and I had issues with him then. I won't get into those issues, but obiously he didn't straighten up his act. My heart goes out to his wife and daughter.
Wondered why that name was so familiar.
 

I'm always on the side of law enforcement, but something is changing. One incident in Oklahoma recently, two drunks were trying to get their truck out of a flooding roadway with the HP yelling at them to abandon it. When they came out of the water one of the drunks tackled a policeman so the other one killed him. I'm just not going to have the police tell me when to abandon my piece of equipment, but I'm not going to fight them either. The drunk that was killed was a good preacher. ??? Alcohol and drugs make all the difference but there still seems to be more willingness by a few police to shoot first.
 
RR answers here depends on if its a private person as to what kind of castle doctrine your state has ie Texas (They hang cattle thieves) vrs Massachusetts (they let the villin go and put you in jail)!! Most states have a procedure if an office shoots some one In most cases it seems like the officer gets cleared. They do indeed look at the devils advocate ideas you have. I would not want to investigate one of these as it is a horrible amount of work!!!! AND I DO NOT AGREE WITH DEADLY FORCE IN SOME CASES ALTHOUGH IT MAY BE LEAGAL!!! TAKE CARE
 
(quoted from post at 15:33:35 10/11/15)
I'm always on the side of law enforcement, but something is changing. One incident in Oklahoma recently, two drunks were trying to get their truck out of a flooding roadway with the HP yelling at them to abandon it. When they came out of the water one of the drunks tackled a policeman so the other one killed him. I'm just not going to have the police tell me when to abandon my piece of equipment, but I'm not going to fight them either. The drunk that was killed was a good preacher. ??? Alcohol and drugs make all the difference but there still seems to be more willingness by a few police to shoot first.
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Andy, your good pastor was not only drunk, but he was also carrying a gun when he attacked an officer. Would you rather those officers risk their own lives fighting the two drunks out there in the dark, one of whom was armed? The other drunk yelled, "get him wet", obviously indicating they were looking to fight.
 
Our training officer told us "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried out by 6". As it was very dark , I would say justified shooting. There is a difference between firing and returning fire.
just my 2 cents worth, joe
 
(quoted from post at 07:47:38 10/11/15) The way I read the story one guy went on another guys property thinking he was a bad hombre and then found out he had bitten off more than he could chew and got the worst end of the fight. Instead of learning his lesson and going on home he turned around and cried wolf to the Sheriffs department who then overreacted as all police organizations seem prone to do these days and now there is a Deputy severely wounded and a citizen dead while the person who started it all has a band aid on his boo-boo.
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I'd like to know exactly how the cops overreacted? You get assaulted it's your right under the constitution to have the law intervene on your behalf. In this case the guy was assaulted with what can be classified a deadly weapon. Doesn't matter if he should have left it alone. He didn't, got poked with a pitchfork. At that point when he called the cops they had no choice but to try to arrest the other guy. Yes a deputy is wounded and a CRIMINAL is dead. But if you read the article the dead guy started it, not the guy who got stabbed with the fork. The guy who got stabbed went over to try to reason with the heck raiser.

Rick
 
"It's better to be judged by 12 than carried out by 6" Could that kind of poor training be what got the Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) shot in the first place?

Today's LEO's are trigger happy compared to 40 years ago. Police departments are telling us they train officers to make a decision to shoot within 8 seconds. I can understand teaching "shoot first and ask questions later" to scared 19 year old buck privates going to war in a far off land. But for so many of our LEOs to behave like they are part of an occupying force in our own country is becoming ridiculous. The public is loosing respect for LEOs. Young people are are starting to believe than any office with a gun drawn will shoot no matter what, so you might as well take the first shot. That is getting suspects killed, innocent bystanders killed and the LEO's themselves killed.

I know law enforcement is not an easy job, it never has been and it won't get easier as the public becomes more heavily armed.
 
(quoted from post at 16:43:04 10/11/15) ". I can understand teaching "shoot first and ask questions later" to scared 19 year old buck privates going to war in a far off land.
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Many of the current LEOs were that scared 19 y o.
 
(quoted from post at 19:43:04 10/11/15) "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried out by 6" Could that kind of poor training be what got the Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) shot in the first place?

Today's LEO's are trigger happy compared to 40 years ago. Police departments are telling us they train officers to make a decision to shoot within 8 seconds. I can understand teaching "shoot first and ask questions later" to scared 19 year old buck privates going to war in a far off land. But for so many of our LEOs to behave like they are part of an occupying force in our own country is becoming ridiculous. The public is loosing respect for LEOs. Young people are are starting to believe than any office with a gun drawn will shoot no matter what, so you might as well take the first shot. That is getting suspects killed, innocent bystanders killed and the LEO's themselves killed.

I know law enforcement is not an easy job, it never has been and it won't get easier as the public becomes more heavily armed.
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ea your right 40 years ago most of these dope heads thugs and "baby daddys" wasn't born yet. who do you think is causing the problems where the cops need to get envolved the cops them self? there are some mean SUCKERS out there and why are they out there? society as a whole has decide no one has should be held responsible for their own actions. I say he got what he deserved
 
oldtanker --- First off, in many places it would not call it assault when one person goes on another persons property and is sent packing, it would be called self defense or protecting his own property. How do you know that he went over to ''reason'' with the heck raiser? that is pure speculation and not very intelligent speculation at that, it is far more likely that he was puffed up, full of bravado and was going to ''straighten the other guy out'' but instead he had his butt handed to him so he went whimpering to the police. As far as my statement that the police overreacted I am referring to the arrest methodology they chose, what was so urgent about a dope head taking a pitchfork to a trespasser that they needed to rush in at midnight instead of going over in the morning and getting the dope heads side of the story and then determining whether they needed to arrest him or anybody else? What would be your first action if 4 or 5 cars pull up in your drive at midnight? I know I will be reaching for a smoke pole and then going to find out who it is and what they want. If it went down the way it was reported it was overkill plain and simple. The SWAT team syndrome that has caught on big with most police organizations the last 20 years or so has escalated thousands of relatively minor situations into major calamities all across the country resulting in the unnecessary deaths of many police officers as well as innocent bystanders as well as contributing to the overall impression of the imposition of a police state in the USA. From reading the reports there seems to be little doubt that this fiasco resulted from a poor plan on the part of the police, they are lucky that the guy had a crossbow instead of a high capacity firearm or they might all be dead.
 
(quoted from post at 21:16:46 10/11/15) oldtanker --- First off, in many places it would not call it assault when one person goes on another persons property and is sent packing, it would be called self defense or protecting his own property. How do you know that he went over to ''reason'' with the heck raiser? that is pure speculation and not very intelligent speculation at that, it is far more likely that he was puffed up, full of bravado and was going to ''straighten the other guy out'' but instead he had his butt handed to him so he went whimpering to the police. As far as my statement that the police overreacted I am referring to the arrest methodology they chose, what was so urgent about a dope head taking a pitchfork to a trespasser that they needed to rush in at midnight instead of going over in the morning and getting the dope heads side of the story and then determining whether they needed to arrest him or anybody else? What would be your first action if 4 or 5 cars pull up in your drive at midnight? I know I will be reaching for a smoke pole and then going to find out who it is and what they want. If it went down the way it was reported it was overkill plain and simple. The SWAT team syndrome that has caught on big with most police organizations the last 20 years or so has escalated thousands of relatively minor situations into major calamities all across the country resulting in the unnecessary deaths of many police officers as well as innocent bystanders as well as contributing to the overall impression of the imposition of a police state in the USA. From reading the reports there seems to be little doubt that this fiasco resulted from a poor plan on the part of the police, they are lucky that the guy had a crossbow instead of a high capacity firearm or they might all be dead.
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Because that's what one article stated. It said that the guy who got poked with the fork went to try to talk to the agitated (also in article) guy.

So, with witnesses if you and I are having a disagreement and I go and try to talk to you and you assault me it's a crime. Look it up. The cops on the other hand once the assault had been reported had the duty to try to arrest the pot head. That falls under their job description. How was it a poor plan? They went back after they were informed that the pot head had returned with 4 officers. What's wrong with that plan? The guy had proven himself to be a danger to others. The cops get paid to take people like that off the streets. So when they tried to arrest his he shot a cop the other cops responded with deadly force. What? Were they supposed to ignore what this guy did? No where in there was there any statement saying the other guy threaten him. So I doubt it was self defense with a pitchfork. Oh but wait that doesn't coincide with your views of the corrupt government and out of control cops.

Rick
 
oldtanker --- Where does the article state that the pitchfork stabee had any witnesses with him? He went on the other guys land and what actually happened is anybody's guess, the police based their action on his side of the story alone and there is never going to be another side of the story told. It was a poor plan by the law for the reasons I stated the first time, the guy was not wanted for capital murder or treason or even selling dope, it was simple assault, the circumstances of which do not lend credence to your theory that ''the guy had proven himself to be a danger to others'', apparently he was only a danger to others when they came on his place with the intent of ''setting him straight'' as the pitchfork pin cushion found out, there was no need to storm the place at midnight and cause such a ruckus, they could have easily waited until daylight and went to get him where they could see what he had or did not have in his hands. As far as my views on corrupt government and out of control cops go, when the peoples power to govern and police themselves is surrendered or usurped the result very much resembles the current state of affairs in the USA, the founders warned us of this outcome and gave us the Constitution to protect our republic and the 2nd amendment to protect ourselves.
 
Shot and ask questions later. Thats the only way to deal with the trash in this world. What were they gonna do? Slap him on the wrist. Or worst put him in life in prison where we have to feed him out like a steer. Should just take all life sentenced criminals around back of the courthouse after they are sentenced and one .22 to the head. 4 cents problem solved, instead of feeding and housing a monster the rest of their life. Just my two cents, maybe if you shoot enough criminals people will stop shooting cops.
Mike
 
(quoted from post at 01:41:34 10/12/15) Shot and ask questions later. Thats the only way to deal with the trash in this world. What were they gonna do? Slap him on the wrist. Or worst put him in life in prison where we have to feed him out like a steer. Should just take all life sentenced criminals around back of the courthouse after they are sentenced and one .22 to the head. 4 cents problem solved, instead of feeding and housing a monster the rest of their life. Just my two cents, maybe if you shoot enough criminals people will stop shooting cops.
Mike
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hey we need a like button :!: only thing I disagree with is use something a little bigger than a 22 a 44 sounds about right to me
 
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