Pole barn planning

I'm goign to be putting in a pole barn but after reading some other posts, realized I have some questions.

My plan was to keep it cheap, cinder blocks for the perimeter, 14' poles 4' into the ground, packed gravel floor with maybe some plywood down. Was going to go sliding on the front, vertical doors on the side.

Overall size will be approximately 20x40, but due to space constraints it will be tapered, so 25' on one end, 15' on the other. Just tall enough to get 4-5 tractors in. Workshop is seperate, a 12x24' that is about 15' away.

I'd love some advice, I was just planning it as I go. Concrete base is not in the budget at the moment

How are you planning on "tapering" it? That sound complicate. I think I'd look at stepping in down
so maybe 25' for 20' then step down to 15' for the rest of what ever fits. Trusses for roof? If you
have cab tractors you'll probably need at least 10ft clear through the door. You'll find lots of
regional difference with setting poles, laminated or solid etc. Not sure about cinder blocks. Most
pole barns here just have a gravel board around perimeter.

The first thing you need to get right is the grade on the
ground. The whole area should be above the existing grade
and level. There are many companies that do pole barns.
Get a free estimate and their experienced recommendations.
They install them cheap and fast. I built my own, and the
trusses were a bear with just ladders. I also had a hard
time getting someone to bore the holes big enough for the
concrete pads that go under the posts. And nobody ever
said " I built my shed too big."

On my pole barn I put the sliding doors on
the inside .it keeps the wind from catching
them when open

Pole barns are easy to build. Buy your trusses though....

I would not use cinder blocks with out a foundation. Use treated (ground contact) tongue and groove 2" by 6" s

I just had more dirt delivered to build up the area and make everything level. I'm planning on 9-10' doors right to the base of the roof. I have to ask around about trusses, I'm not quite at that step yet. A friend of a friend has a 3pt post hole digger I was going to borrow, with 9' auger. I was going to hook it up to my ferguson TO-30 for the holes.

For the poles I was going to use 4x4's, then 2x4's along the bottom against the cinder blocks. How far should I space them? The idea was to put the cinder blocks 4' down and 4' up, put plastic down, then 4' crushed gravel for the floor, french drain around the top side. It will be raised up but the area receives runoff as it's on the low side of the property. Unfortunately due to the shape, it's the only spot I can put it.

Normal pole spacing is 8ft centres with 6x6 posts. 4
inch posts seem a bit small. Also I don't really
understand the idea behind the cinder blocks 4'
down for a pole barn.

When I was researching I found a wide variety of ways to build them. It seemed that the ones that were wider or supported second floors were 6x6 beams while the narrower ones were 4x4's.

I want the base raised 4" for the gravel and a solid and sturdy floor that will remain dry and keep the gravel in place giving it a semi-finished look without a full concrete base.

ARe you sure that the are no codes or code enforcement where you are building? They prefer to tell you how you will build.

Forget the 4x4's if its treated southern yellow pine with any knots, or imperfections like all wood has, they can be very brittle and snap, I've had brand new ones break in half just from dropping or tossing them. There is wind load to consider, these are just too small. Also consider CCA .40 or .60 treated lumber for poles that are in the ground, you can order it for ag and industrial/commercial uses, this is an ag type building. There are marine grades of it too, fresh or salt water, but a .60 CCA in reasonably well drained soil should outlast you.

You can find a lot of pole barn construction details for reference on the web, take a look, it will help you immensely.

I don't understand the concrete block detail, it sounds like a knee wall, which will require footings, you could build off that, but it has to be sound, and you'll need an anchor detail for the wood framing. Cinder block is an old outdated term, concrete masonry unit (CMU) is the correct term, and of course most will know what you mean anyway but....... its like Rich (Old) with the bees and wasps terminology. Same with "Masonary" there is no such thing, its "Masonry".

Good point about the site, make sure you check elevations and address drainage issues, both roof and ground. There is nothing worse than a building that is too low. Also consider any future uses or things you may want to add later. Its highly beneficial to plan or do any prep work during initial construction vs after its done, the cost will only go up and will be significantly more.

Just have to submit my plans to the township, actual construction is up to the contractor so long as it is a storage facility under 1000sq ft unless there is electricity or plumbing, which would require it's own inspection. For building codes I'm referred to the international building code book.

Never had an issue with a 4x4, but I thought it as 4' on center, at 8' on center 6x6 does sound considerably safer.

For that small and tapered, you might end up cheaper stick building. The taper thing is a real mess, I get that you have this here space and
that's how it is, but man you just made things more expensive and less useful.

The combination of the cinder blocks and the pole building does not compute? If you are going to lay block then make it a stem wall, and build
on top of them, would be a more permanent building, good. If you are digging holes to plant poles, don't waste money on block. I'm not
understanding this at all? Spending double on this?

A stick built building and a pole building use about the same amount of wood. The savings is in cheaper construction costs for the pole building.
The wider spacing with the 6x6 poles might be cheaper than the narrow 4 foot spacing with the flimsy poles. Often so, you need to do some
homework. But your smaller shed might work fine with 4x4.

The key is work out the trusses, what is the cheaper spacing for that size building, and what spacing is most economical. Probably will be 8
feet. Then I would go with 6x6 posts on 8 foot, and that will be cheap set design as well. As well a laminated 6x6 pole is much stronger, and it
only needs to be treated on the bottom 5-8 feet, the rest of the pole can be untreated lumber that saves money.

But, the taper thing will derail most of these plans, the custom trusses or your homemade rafters will cost more than a square building roof
normally would.

Anyhow, I'm rambling on. You are planning the details, when you need to work out the big pieces first. You want a rock bottom cheap building,
and you are picking some options that ensure this thing is going to cost double what it should?

Stem wall block foundations cost a little more, but make a very solid long term building.

Pole buildings are a little cheaper, poles might rot out some day.

Both poles and block, I'm a little lost?

Paul

I could see putting the posts in and running the bottom girt six inches off the ground, with the sheathing nailed to it and an inch below the bottom of the girt, then putting a row of blocks along the inside of the bottom girt. Then you can come back and fill to the tops of the blocks inside with gravel, so that the wood of your walls is up off the ground, and the gravel inside is retained, and there is no gap at the bottom of the walls.

Sorry for the confusion. The cinder blocks are nothing more than retaining wall for the stone, nothing will be built on them. Everythign will be supported by the poles.

For stick building, there's a lot different as far as code goes and building inspection, thus the desire for a pole building with a permeable floor.

I don't understand "tapered". Are you saying the walls won't be parallel? Sure, you can do that, but it means EACH TRUSS WILL BE DIFFERENT. That's a lot of work.

I've never seen a post frame building with concrete block footings. They aren't needed; the posts support the building. Normal practice is to use 2x6 skirt boards (pressure treated for ground contact). For a building where rodents will be a problem, maybe a 2 foot ratwall.

4x4 posts are too small for a building of that size. 4x6 minimum.

I suggest you rethink your plans for a trapezoidal building; it's going to be tough to build and will look like a house of horrors when it's done.

Make sure and pour concrete plugs at the bottom of your post holes to support the weight of the building.

For 6x6 posts, how large should the hole/base be? For 4x4 I was going 9" hole, but not sure about 6x6.

And the cinder blocks are just for retaining the gravel.

Make sure the poles have this much chemical, depending on which chemical you have. NOTE, ordinary lumber yard poles might not have this much chemical. This is the minimum amount the varous manufacturers pressurize in for PERMANENT structural barn foundations. Anything less will rot out.
“NatureWood” Alkaline Copper Quaternary ACQ
Minimum 0.60 pcf ACQ for Structural / Building Pole / Foundation Use

“Micro-Pro / Smart-Sense” Micronized Copper Quaternary MCQ
Minimum 0.60 pcf MCQ for Structural / Building Pole / Foundation Use

“Micro-Pro / Life-Wood” Micronized Copper (tebuconazole) Azole MCA
Minimum 0.23 pcf MCA for Structural / Building Pole / Foundation Use

> For 6x6 posts, how large should the hole/base be? For 4x4 I was going 9" hole, but not sure about 6x6.

Generally speaking you want the concrete plug at the bottom of your post hole to be at least 10 inches in diameter.

> And the cinder blocks are just for retaining the gravel.

I don't understand why you would go to the aggravation of buiding a concrete block retaining wall. It's very easy to add one or two extra skirt boards below grade if you have a drop-off around your building. If the drop-off is so abrupt you need a retaining wall, I would reconsider post-frame construction and maybe go with stick-built, since you won't have much dirt around the posts.

Jay,Im building a 30X40 pole barn,no floor and no doors,Ill have 13,000 invested when done

jimmy

Have to agree that your "tapered" plan is way complicated for a simple building. Figuring out the trusses will have you insane in no time. I understand the desire to have as much room under roof as you can but it sounds like you are taking it a bit too far. Perhaps a stepped down plan (a few narrower "cubes" moving from the wide to the narrow end) would be easier and cheaper to build and would probably look better too. The ground contact skirt board outside out is really the way to go to hold the gravel and provide a form for the concrete floor if you go that way some day. I had two barns built that way and it worked out very well. Also, used 4x6 posts, wouldn't use less than that, no matter how close they are spaced. Good luck with it.

Rather than trying to erect a trapezoidal building, consider making it tee-shaped.

For the front portion of the building, use 24 foot wide trusses, with ten foot sidewalls.

For the rear potion of the building, use 16 foot wide trusses. Assuming you're using 4/12 pitch trusses, the sidewalls on the rear portion will be 16 inches taller than the front (ie. 11' 4" tall).