What I am asking is primarily square balers and knotters at that. Many dealerships have gotten out of it. Some people do there own and there is always the 80 year old man who worked for a dealer back when. I dabble with them and have helped a few people but am no expert. I suppose in areas where there is minimal haying its worse, any way give me your thoughts.
- Thread starter JOCCO
- Start date
A couple of Mennonites have specialized in small square baler repair and used parts. There used to be former dealer mechanics who made spending money by being on call 24/7 during the season but nowadays you do not hear about those guys so they must be gone for good. I would say nowadays having a good small square baler mechanic on staff is a low priority for any dealer regardless of color. The big boys who spend the big money do not buy them anymore. Large HP tractors, combines, SP forage harvesters, and planters are the biggest concerns for a dealer. I was told that one Deere dealer in the region did not even want any 2 cylinder tractors in the shop as nobody had any background on them there.
I wouldn't know if the 4 remaining dealerships in the county (1 JD, 1 blue CNH, 1 red CNH, 1 AGCO) still would work on knotters or not (no pun intended). I DO know their shop rates are pretty dear, and that they would much rather sell you a new baler than fix an old one, and parts seem to be priced accordingly.
I imagine in most areas there are a few who have had enough blue word experience with one brand or another over the years, who could be resourced when your knotters don't. It may just be a matter of figuring out who.
Because I'm a bit more mechanical than most, I've been asked a few times to troubleshoot knotter issues, and do "OK" at it, but I'm not an expert by any means (as in I can say on a phone call "oh yeah, your bill hook is 5 degrees late because the drive gear is worn"). In theory, a knotter is a simple machine, but like many things in life, timing is everything. A bit of wear in a not so obvious place can cause a lot of problems that may be hard to come up with a simple solution for. One of the reasons I don't give my real name here - I already have enough to do.
I imagine in most areas there are a few who have had enough blue word experience with one brand or another over the years, who could be resourced when your knotters don't. It may just be a matter of figuring out who.
Because I'm a bit more mechanical than most, I've been asked a few times to troubleshoot knotter issues, and do "OK" at it, but I'm not an expert by any means (as in I can say on a phone call "oh yeah, your bill hook is 5 degrees late because the drive gear is worn"). In theory, a knotter is a simple machine, but like many things in life, timing is everything. A bit of wear in a not so obvious place can cause a lot of problems that may be hard to come up with a simple solution for. One of the reasons I don't give my real name here - I already have enough to do.
we ask the farmer about 4 miles away ,,and pay him 60 bux per hour ,,. brothers 575 nh went down yesterday ,,.. trying to get straw before the rain ,, the fella said sorry ,, he cant help becvause he is trying to best t he rain too ... LOL .. ,,. lots of religion been lost over knotters not tying ,,.. and its a 150 yr old technology !..
I'm not sure the dealers around me know what a knotter is in the first place. To get them to come out and work on the baler would be pricey at best and the cost of a new used baler worst.
If I had to buy a new baler, I'd like to get an inline, but IMHO the number 1 reason to get a Deere is IMHO the knotters (and the rest of the baler i.e. 328, 338 and 348) are same/similar to the older models that when I need help, I come to the experts on YT FORUMS!!!!! I have much more confidence you folks know more about farm equipment than those selling it.
Bill
If I had to buy a new baler, I'd like to get an inline, but IMHO the number 1 reason to get a Deere is IMHO the knotters (and the rest of the baler i.e. 328, 338 and 348) are same/similar to the older models that when I need help, I come to the experts on YT FORUMS!!!!! I have much more confidence you folks know more about farm equipment than those selling it.
Bill
60 acre hillside
Member
I have to do my own but am not very good. Seems like a lost trade, perhaps went the way of the blacksmith and farrier
Gambles
Well-known Member
For the record, I am not a knotter expert. But like everything else mechanical, the guy fixing the knotter has to know exactly what each part does and what the symptoms are when each individual part is not set properly or when it needs to be repaired. I have not looked lately, but there used to be a few good instructional videos on YouTube about knotter repair that have helped me, the one I remember the most was from New Holland, I believe.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
In this area it is hard to find any body that has a clue how knotters work. Took one we had to a dealer and they fixed it and it lasted all of 300 bales if that many
Get some of the best (and earliest) baler manuals that you can find and educate yourself on repairing and adjusting them - then you will be the resident expert and charge others getting their bales to tie the knots. It's not really that difficult, just get your mind around how they work and how to adjust them to make them work. All knotters are pretty much the same, so when you learn one system, the others will be easy. Follow the manuals and don't miss any steps.
BTW, most knotters are made with malleable iron parts so fine adjustments are meant to be made by bending the malleable iron to the proper adjustment.
BTW, most knotters are made with malleable iron parts so fine adjustments are meant to be made by bending the malleable iron to the proper adjustment.
Around here you learn to work on your own or you get a round baler. If you have to do squares for the horse market... you really learn to work on your own or you get wet hay.
I don't see what the big deal is. Knotters are NOT rocket science. Get the owners manual and use it to troubleshoot the problems according to the pictures of the failed knots. Most things come down to dull twine knives or tension problems and one you recognize what's going on you can tweak that stuff in the field on the run.
Rod
I don't see what the big deal is. Knotters are NOT rocket science. Get the owners manual and use it to troubleshoot the problems according to the pictures of the failed knots. Most things come down to dull twine knives or tension problems and one you recognize what's going on you can tweak that stuff in the field on the run.
Rod
onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
I've always had to do my own knotters and think I know them fairly well. I found this video and it helped me quite a bit. But even with knowledge and experience there is still alot of trial and error. Have to be right there to see it fail to figure out just where the failure is. Doesn't help at all they work so fast and there is so much happening you can't possibly see it all at once. But really the picture says it all.
<image src="http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto23918.jpg"/>
How they work.
<image src="http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto23918.jpg"/>
How they work.
the tractor vet
Well-known Member
Years back at times i would get called to go work on as the old Oliver dealer called the OFF color tractors , as people close to hi would bring in what ever to be fixed and he would call me to come up and work on any RED tractors and some times that off color Green but only after dark when the doors were closed . The one old mechanic that knew everythng about and oliver and about any New Holland baler he and i got along great , i was up there working on a 1066 doing a T/A and clutch job and kenny and i were talking back and forth as he was working on a New Holland 310 baler and i said to kenny ya know i would really like to Learn how to work on balers and learn from and expert , Kenny said with out missing a beat NO YOU DON'T , i said Yes i do HE said i am doing you a favor by NOT teaching you how to fix a baler because from the end of May till after frost people will call you AT home 24-7 and expect you to drop what your doing and run wright out there and fix there problem , you will need to either get a van truck or a van trailer and load it with parts that you may never need or use but you will have to have everything for all the makes and models on hand . He then took me out to the Dodge van that had parts bins down both sides and across the ft. loaded with parts and all the shop manuals . He told me that everything in there was for New Holland ONLY and that he only worked on New holland . I spent a lot of hours up there filling in while he was out doing baler repair and OLD Pappa Bare paid me vary well for filling in when i had time . So i never learned from one of the best and i don't do balers .
A guy that graduated from high school a year behind me, is a territorial Heston Big baler mechanic. I called him when I was having issues with my New Holland 271. He walked me through it. He says most knotters are basically the same, and its just a matter of making sure everything is with in specs.
I say that, but when mine decides to not work, it can be about the most frustrating thing there is.
I say that, but when mine decides to not work, it can be about the most frustrating thing there is.
Brown Swiss
Well-known Member
My thought, unhook the darn thing and get a round baler! I told my dad years ago, if the world depended on me to make a baler, they would only get round balers!
Rollie NE PA
Well-known Member
I grew up on a J-D 14T I always figured out and worked on the knotters. It did jump time once and that was hard to figure out. Good to have a manual.
Worked on NH knotters also. Sometimes it just takes patience.
Worked on NH knotters also. Sometimes it just takes patience.
Bryan inIowa
Member
I have specialized in carb work for 30 yrs. I didn't hardly see any come in shop for 3 years. Now I am buried in them. Cars ,trucks , tractors, small engine . Odd how it runs in cycles like that .
20 years ago I bought a NH 277 for 600 bucks from a dealer. He said that they took it in on a trade for a new baler. The people had a big dairy operation and had got the best out of it. I didn't know they were completed to work on or it took an expert. I have had the knotters apart totally and replaced bill hooks as well as any part that could come off to see if they looked like they needed replaced. The twine finger pivot bracket rusted away and I had to weld in scrap metal to fashion a new one. I had to replace knives and put in new needles after I let my Son inlaw use it and bring it back with a repaired chain which was not put in time. Had to replace hay dog springs and pins. In the 20 some years it has not seen an hour inside and this year I baled about 45 bales and it never missed a tie. I parked it hooked on the Oliver 77 out back after I used it last. When the hay was ready to bale I started the 77 and started baling. after the first tie I cranked the tension down and took off again. It must be fear that makes people think there is some secret to repairing the knotters or any other part when you have a manual to refer to. NH manuals make it kinda simple. If I would have known it was difficult I probly would have been up a creek.
billfromwisconsin
Member
my neighbor used to say grease' em good and let them fill up with chaff. actually it kinda works, it takes the slop out of some. anyway, I workrd on my 273 new Holland, READ THE MANUAL, FOLLOWED THE STEPS, it would miss a tie almost every time after changing a ball, but was like a watch the rest of the time. I have worked on the binder knotters for the club I belong to, old mccormick. it seems like some just have a knack for it.
Hay hay hay
Well-known Member
I could not find any help so I slowly learned the job myself.
I did not do it in the proper order, just started trying stuff.
A knotter is fairly simple but because it is hard to see and it happens so fast
it is a little baffling to understand the function of each part.
1) first watch the NH video on Youtube explaining how a knotter does its job.
this makes diagnosing much easier.
2) Use the troubleshooting part of the manual to focus on fixing the problem.
3) If the knotter is working well, leave it alone, don't change it, just clean it off,
grease it, protect it from rust with a cover, and don't change brands of twine to save $10.
4) If you do work on it, do it one fix at a time so when you fix it you will know what fixed it.
5) the needle stop is your best friend...be sure it is working and well adjusted.
Because broken needles usually tear up the knotters too when they smash.
I did not do it in the proper order, just started trying stuff.
A knotter is fairly simple but because it is hard to see and it happens so fast
it is a little baffling to understand the function of each part.
1) first watch the NH video on Youtube explaining how a knotter does its job.
this makes diagnosing much easier.
2) Use the troubleshooting part of the manual to focus on fixing the problem.
3) If the knotter is working well, leave it alone, don't change it, just clean it off,
grease it, protect it from rust with a cover, and don't change brands of twine to save $10.
4) If you do work on it, do it one fix at a time so when you fix it you will know what fixed it.
5) the needle stop is your best friend...be sure it is working and well adjusted.
Because broken needles usually tear up the knotters too when they smash.
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