What Are My Options?

Well, I got my 1 way cylinder on the IH 990 swather. I got the line modified to fit the tractor. I got the remote line put ON the tractor. EVERYTHING is in good working order.

I hooked it all up just now to give it a go, and it don't have enough snort to pick up the header..... I FINALLY messed around with it, and got the "transport pin" out of it, so the whole weight of the header was on the cylinder. Held it up just fine, and I let it about half way down, wouldn't go up, so I thought, well, might as well go ALL the way down, so I did.

It easily picks the header up so there is about 6-7 inches of clearance between the sickle and the ground. Which, I suppose is good enough for using, but I would like it to work properly, SO, is my belly pump worn out, just that weak to start with, what?

It has an odd looking purple fluid in it, that is VERY clean/nice looking. Actually drained it all out, and decided to put it back in!

I think it might be a LITTLE thinner that "normal" stuff, but it is close to 100 out there today. Should I try putting 90W in it and see if that helps?

What are my options? What can I do to make it work better?

Don't use 90W oil, that won't help. The manual states to use 30w motor oil, but I would venture to say that the belly pump just does not have enough pressure to do it. Those old belly pumps only put out 800-900psi when new. Next option is to put a cylinder on there with a larger bore.

I used to mow hay with a 469 New Holland with a M. I never had a problem but I used a 3" by 8" cylinder. If yours is the small 1-1/2 by 8 it is not going to do the job.

Bob

Bryce, three options there is oil, or air in the cylinder and it needs to be vented or you need more oil in pump. If you don,t have a vent no place for air or oil to go. Those old cylinders have a habit of letting oil go to the other side.If the cylinder is a 3 inch or bigger should raise that header just fine.

Hadn't even thought of piston size! The one I put on it is 1 1/2 x 12 I think. It is for sure the smaller piston. Will a bigger one really make that much of a difference? I might be able to come up with one somewhere?!?! Maybe a buddy of mine has one.

There should be plenty of oil in the system, I have drained it all out, and I would guess there was all of 2 gallons, maybe more?

The piston also has a "breather plug" in the "down" end, and it does breath in and out with the oil, so I don't think that is a problem. No oil came out when I extended it the first time, just air.

I will try to come up with a bigger cylinder. I MUST be able to find one somewhere!!

Thanks for the info guys!

There is huge difference in surface area between a 1.5 in bore and a 3 in bore... around 4x as much. That helps a lot.

Think about it. Bigger bore means larger surface area. Larger surface area means more oil hitting and pushing, meaning more lift power.

The pump puts out X pounds per Sq. INCH, meaning every inch it has to push against the more it can lift(or turn accordingly). Ex 800psi x 1inch piston(800xpixradius squared(1/2x1/2=1/4))= about 200(pi)lbs lift, 800psi x 3in piston(800X2.25xpi) =1800(pi) lbs. The stroke on a cylinder is how far it travels from all in to all out.
I might be way off but that is how I think its figured. :?

I have a 10ft. disc that I occasionally use with a JD 70. 70 has no problems picking it up with a 2 inch cylinder, can't get it all the way up with a 1 1/2 inch cylinder. The old tractors worked at lower pressures and the cylinder size makes a big difference.

Use straight 30 wt oil.Use a 3" cylinder. Check the pressure output of the pump.Easy to do. Just get a 1000lb gauge.Hook a quick coupler on that will fit your tractor.Plug it in to the remote.open valve. try it a couople times,wide open or idle.Compare.As was said,they were only about 800psi when new.Now,after 60 years of use,I'll bet it's about half that now.

In addition to what the others have said, many swathers/conditioners/haybines have a float assist spring setup to help the header slide over rocks and debris. (Which also assists the hydraulics in lifting the header.)

I don't know if yours is set up like that, but if it is, it may be possible to tighten an adjustment to add more spring assist.

That being said, several years ago a friend bought a previously demo'ed McDon 20' unit and it was kind of banged up in the cutterbar and guard area.

After looking at the owner's manual, we figured out that the springs had never been tensioned when the machine was set up at the dealership, and needed to be MUCH tighter.

Might be worth exploring the possibility that yours may have springs, as well.

is this a 2 way cylinder and you are running it on a 1 way system? If so did you put a plug in the hole where you removed a hose? Or did you put a venting plug in the hole? Are you using A high pressure cylinder built for Allis Chalmers on a low pressure system? As stated it sounds like you need a larger cylinder or check your pump pressure.

Throw that cylinder in the junk pile and get yourself a correct cylinder and that will be a 3" diameter by 8" stroke, if you could have gotten it to raise with a 4" too long a stroke you would have broken it so bad you could not have repaired it. And you have a unit that just raises the header, not the complete machine as some are made and even with a 4" diameter cylinder you could not raise one of them. I pulled a Case 555 9' (Same at a Heston PT-10) with a Farmall H and had to use the 3" cylinder, the 2 1/2" cylinders I had would not do it. The 1 1/2" diameter cylinder would be the correct diameter to lift cutter bar on a mower but then only in a 8" stroke cylinder. Could it be you are trying to use a lift all cylinder for a cultivator for this? But then I think they were only an 8" stroke as well. With the proper kit you could use 2 of them to lift a wheel disk so they had to also be an 8" stroke cylinder. There was NO machinery made in that time frame that used anything but 8" stroke cylinders.

Don't know if your figures are correct but that is the way it is done. Every time you double size of circle you quadruple (Multiply by 4 times) the area of it.

I don't know myself if those figures are right. My mind wasn't working when I was trying to type that out(I forgot parts of the equations several times). That was just a crude example to show the general idea.

To complete the thinking here - remember too that it also takes that much more fluid to move the larger cylinder the same same distance as the smaller one.

So what you run into going to a larger cylinder is a loss in speed. In your case, that doesn't matter. But if you were building a log splitter or something like that, it might.

It's just one of those physics deals where you can never get something for nothing. You get slow and powerful, or weak and fast.

So even a wimpy little pump can use the large bore cylinder, and it will be powerful - but you might have to wait 15 minutes for it to fully extend. (exaggerating of course). I'd say (very) generally speaking that larger pumps are usually more about extra speed (volume) than extra power. The cylinder diameter is generally what determines the power.

I have a 990. Use a 3x8 cylinder with three of those one inch spacers on the shaft. Don't need all that lifting and dropping going on.
DO you have a manual. Get one and adjust springs to spec.
Take a good look at the drive chain and sprockets on the left side. They are both the heart and Achilles heel of the beast. Remove the 60 chain and lay it on a table and check for lateral and longitudinal play. New one will cost you 45 bucks, I think 47 links.