How strong do you have to be?

I was looking through the tractor photos, and the first one shows what looks like a 10-20 McCormick Deering, and the guy says it still rolls over easy, which got me thinking, how strong were the old timers that only had crank start on the tractors? I don't think I'm exactly a wimp, when I had a farmall M I could crank start it, but I can only barely turn my 450 Diesel. How did those guys start the old large engine tractors? Or is it easier than I think? Just a random thought. -Andy

You need to be only strong enough to pull UP on that crank, enough to move it about 3 to 4 inches. If the engine does not start, rotate the crank around to where you pull up on it again.

Whirlwinding the crank would wear out even Hercules.

All technique....your in for a long day trying the strong arm
approach. We started WD9's, WR9's, JD D's from the time we were little guys. Seen big boys let a D make a fool out of themselves.
I personally never used the pull up method on a hand crank....too hard on the back. I push down on a half turn and disengage the crank in the same motion. The LA Case had a reputation of breaking a few arms on the kick back.

Here's a link to a great video starting a 10-20 McCormick Deering... and on the youtube page for that vid - they provide another link to him starting a 22-36.

They're neat videos.
Old gent starting a 10 20 McCormick Deering

Don't know how strong, I would think more what way you go push down or pull up. Easier to push down with all of body then pull up with basically back and legs.

People think we're nuts for crank starting a W6 or the Case SC. First time I cranked the cub I almost went head over heals it was such a small engine compared to anything else I cranked over.

My brother once snubbed out a WD9 at a pull, jumped off and cranked it right over. The announcer said something about not seeing that anymore and not wanting to do it himself. I could crank that ox over too when I was about 10.

The electric starts rarely work on a lot of our tractors, bad batteries mainly. They seem to start easier for us with the cranks as well.

I should grab a crank and see if the 650D still turns yet, it sat a few years already. It use to turn about the same as the WD9.

It's amusing to watch a strapping young man fan the crank a dozen or so times while the tractor sways back and forth, without success, then go lean against a tree to recouperate while an old timer walks up, sets the timing just right and starts it on the first slow pull.

I didn't grow up pulling on a crank, I grew up turning a flywheel. I didn't have my hand on a crank till I was well out of high school. When turning over a two banger dad taught me to feel when it's just over the top and then let go of the flywheel. Once in awhile the old two bangers would kick backwards with enough violent energy to spin it backwards a couple of revolutions. You don't want to have a tight grip on the flywheel when it does that.

My granddad's dental office was across the hall from the town doctor back in the 20's through the forties and fifties. When a person came in the doctor's office with a broken arm from a kickback the doctor would call my granddad over to pull on the arm with his foot in the patients arm pit while the doctor squeezed and felt the bone trying to reset it. Grandpa said he had to pull very hard while the patient screamed in pain. Uffda!

Some of those old engines had petcocks that you could open to relieve some of the compression so you could turn it over easier. As soon as the engine started, you would close the petcocks to restore full compression and power.

The CID was smaller than the later tractors.

neat vid sweetfeet
how about these guys starting a Rumley Oil Pull
starting a Rumley

Back in 2011, I had back surgery - screws and rods in my lower back. I finished putting my F-20 together (with help) about the same time frame. I COULD NOT start it the first time after the rebuild (friend did). It was about 8 months before I could! Now it's not bad to get going! My 10-20 is pretty easy, too. We will see how long it takes after I have my knee replaced!

I had an LAE Case power unit on my sawmill for years. 403 CI and was a hand crank. My Dad and I cranked it one morning when it was 9 degrees. 30 wt Quaker State oil in it. Glad those days are over now. Wish I had that strength in my arms now.
Richard in NW SC

bluewatermassey,

Rumely video was great! Now that was a pretty crazy "kick-start". LOL

Love the chuff-chuff sound they make... and really neat perspective when it was heading straight toward the person shooting the video.

(quoted from post at 14:49:50 06/11/15) I was looking through the tractor photos, and the first one shows what looks like a 10-20 McCormick Deering, and the guy says it still rolls over easy, which got me thinking, how strong were the old timers that only had crank start on the tractors? I don't think I'm exactly a wimp, when I had a farmall M I could crank start it, but I can only barely turn my 450 Diesel. How did those guys start the old large engine tractors? Or is it easier than I think? Just a random thought. -Andy

Click to expand...

Back in the late '50s I weighed 134 lbs. soaking wet and I rode a '46 Harley. Being basically penniless, of course, all it's care and feeding was up to me. One of the skills I acquired at that time was starting a big V-twin; if not done right sprains and breaks of the right leg were fairly common, even with guys that out-weighed me by 80 or 90 pounds. A 74 or even a 61 would test your mettle and determination but when flathead 74 or 80 inch flywheels were fitted the resulting increase in displacement and compression ratio added a wholly-new dimension to kicking one over. An older mentor of ours that rode a built 84 incher with about 11:1 CR gave me and my bud the starting tips that I still use today and the procedure applies to pretty much any internal-combustion engine. The 'trick' is to get the engine 'up against' compression, let the kickstarter back up to get a full stroke, bring it to compression again and then kick it clear through. At 134 lbs. this meant putting my back, shoulder and arm muscles into it .... 100 per cent; my buddy was about 5" taller and 60 pounds heavier than me but he was the one that sprained his ankle (bad) when starting his '36 61 'whomped out' to 86 c.i. with about 13:1 CR (no stroker plates under the jugs). I had started it and made a beer run with the same bike earlier in the week, starting it twice on that trip. It was obvious to me that he hadn't given that hundred per cent.

I am relating this bit of trivia to verify what many others have said in response to the question posed in this thread and that is:there are 'tricks' that are not readily apparent to an observer and can only be learned in one of two ways: advice from somebody who 'has been there; done that' OR getting in there and learning by attending the 'School Of Hard Knocks'. It's good that those with experience with things that are now becoming a 'lost art' are willing and able to pass on some of their knowledge to others! Quoting an old Irishman, 'It warms the cockles of me heart!'

(quoted from post at 18:21:40 06/11/15) neat vid sweetfeet
how about these guys starting a Rumley Oil Pull
starting a Rumley

Click to expand...

That's very cool! 8) AND on the same YouTube menu I found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLNQyJqcE5I WORLD PLOWING RECORD (66 bottom plow)

You need to know your engine. My SC Case takes six pulls of choke with the mag grounded, and then one pull with 1/4 choke and the mag hot, when cold. It will start without choking if still warm with one or two pulls, and will start with one pull when hot. Also, someone planed the head, so it has fairly high compression and gives stout resistance. I know it is flooded when it gets really tough to pull over. Also, I just got my replacement wiring harness in the mail, so the starter will be doing its job soon. I have been hand starting it weekly since the engine rebuild over six months ago (I started it the first few times with jumper cables and a 12V battery).

I would see my Dad grabbing the hand crank on his A/C M, and just spin that thing over like it was nothing. I could never do it, also I was afraid of a kick back. I would kick it over with my foot. Stan

"The CID was smaller than the later tractors."

WHERE did you come up with THAT... many old tractors had a cubic inc displacement that was HUGE.

COMPRESSION RATIO was low, though.

Always pull up on the crank. If the engine kicks back while pulling up, it will simply pull the crank out of your hands. No harm, no foul.

If you are pushing down, and the kick back occurs, that is when arms get broken, and tractor operators get sent into orbit.

I'm 36 now, but when I was 31 I bought my first hand start JD from a friend. The first summer I had it my buddy and I spent a couple of hours setting the timing and the carb on it and now it will start with one or two throws when it's above 50. When it's colder she can be a bit temperamental, but will still start fairly easy. Old boy in our tractor club explained some of the ins and outs to setting up a hand start tractor.

I was at a show one time and there were three of us with hand crank John Deeres pretty close to each other. The first guy went to start his and with everything he had kept throwing that flywheel for several minutes and she finally started. The old boy next to me went over turned the gas on and explained to the crowd that if they were timed right and the carb set right it should pop off with little to no effort. He kind of put his back into it and gave the old girl 2 throws and she popped right off. Of course he was grinning from ear to ear and came around to watch me start mine figuring it was going to be quite the show since I was at least 20 years younger than either of them. I choked the carb and grabbed the flywheel with one hand to roll it up to compression. As soon as I grabbed the flywheel, it happened to stop right about at full compression, and started to roll it the old girl kick I opened the carb and she sat there and purred. Old boy just turned and walked away. Kinda got lucky that day, but gave me a good laugh.

My uncle used to start his 41 JD B by spinning the fan blade!

Usually with a crowd around they never start ! LOL.

Must be the way I hold the crank, fingers curled, crank nested by finger nails and push with base of palm. I've had them kick enough times and the crank just slips from the hand. I've seen people hurt both ways though. Either it kicks and they have a tight hold when pushing and it bust the arm or wrist. Or bends fingers backwards when pulling up. I have even heard of them kicking out of hand and hitting people in the legs(or else where), either way push/ pull.

About thirty years ago, I was kicking away on my Panhead... Not very well tuned... This guy comes up to me and says, "If
you had it in gear, you'd be there by now."
I was instantly angry, but too exhausted to do anything. Now, everytime I think of it I laugh to myself.
Kenny

My grandpa use to start his 44 Massey from the belt pulley. He was a big man though, he had to special order gloves cause his hands were so big, we called them bear claws. He was not fat, just lean and big.

on most well-tuned engines, it's not as hard as your mind thinks it will be. (sorta like moving moderate size loaded tires around)
After doing it a few times..."What was I worried about?"

funnest crank one I had was a little AC B (junk)
guy that bought it for parts wondered how to get it on the trailer.
I told him that it runs fine, drive it on. Crank only and he was scared so I started it. [i:d5c4e7e325]Very[/i:d5c4e7e325] worn crank cog, had to hold in hard on the handle. bring it around to 5 o'clock on compression, stand off to the side and pull it hard to 8 o'clock, letting go of the handle at the same time cuz it would slip out.
Took 2 tries and it was running.
Guy watching the spinning clattering crank handle with wide eyes....bet he never tried it. lol

A salesman that comes to my work and knows I like old tractors, asked if I would look at his friends unstyled B JD for him said it hard to start. I agreed, so went to his place one evening to look at his tractor, I have an unstyled also. Went and set the carb the way I start mine and it started right up, he shook his head and wanted to try and start it no go. I tried it again and she started. Poor guy just doesn't have the strength anymore in his shoulders to start it. There is 25-30 years difference in age, not bragging just the way it is. Looked and his other tractors and helped him with some electrical stuff and made a new friend, just waiting for him to call so we can take the tractors for a spin. chris

(quoted from post at 05:50:10 06/12/15)
Always pull up on the crank. If the engine kicks back while pulling up, it will simply pull the crank out of your hands. No harm, no foul.

If you are pushing down, and the kick back occurs, that is when arms get broken, and tractor operators get sent into orbit.

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Yeah, and don't hook your thumb over the crank handle :roll: