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Costs of going to college..

D

Dick2

Well-known Member
Since David G. opened the discussion about colleges, I just want to note my observations. When I was in college many years ago, student loans were pretty new. I lived within my meager means so I would not be in debt when I graduated. Other kids kept telling me to get students loans so I wouldn't have to live sparingly. However, I noticed that the majority of the student loan money that came into their hands was spent on partying!

I wondered if the government was encouraging drinking and partying by encouraging student loans?

Very few college kids know how to handle money. One girl's parents figured out the cost of college for a year and deposited that much money in her student account; she spent all the money in the first quarter! Those who somehow were able to graduate could get credit to buy a brand new car even though they owed thousands to the student loan program. All that debt would seem to me like carrying an anvil around their neck.

Between the large increases in tuition and the tightening of the student loan program in light of the current job market, 4-year degrees may not be worth the effort and money - especially for the "basket weaving" courses.
 
I think part of it is that colleges are 'for profit' businesses. They brainwash these kids into thinking they are going to be making 100k right out of school so "it will be nothing to pay off the loan". However, once inside "big business", regardless of what you know or can do, it is pretty hard to get advanced without a degree.
 
(quoted from post at 11:57:52 05/17/15) I think part of it is that colleges are 'for profit' businesses. They brainwash these kids into thinking they are going to be making 100k right out of school so "it will be nothing to pay off the loan". However, once inside "big business", regardless of what you know or can do, it is pretty hard to get advanced without a degree.
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Even state supported colleges can be expensive. I went to college 40 years ago, it was $11 per credit hour. Now, the same school is nearly $400 per credit hour. That's not including books, and other fees.

When I went, about 90% of school was paid for by the government. Now it's reversed, 90% on the students.
 
In my opinion, college requirements are the largest hoax ever perpetuated on the American public. College degrees are the reason we are in the mess we are in as a country. We put these kids in a job and they have no concept of the under workings that get the job done. Think about it, we give a kid the job of managing a widget factory, but he did not start on the line making the widgets as he is "educated". He starts to cut what the workers need to make widgets because it helps his bottom line, i.e. bonus. Soon, quality suffers and said factory goes under. But the news media blames it on the unions or lazy workers. I could go on for hours.
 
It was in the news last week that ASU is paying the head football coach $3.5 million per year salary. Do we really need those expensive athletic programs? Why?
 
When I was in college, the football program by itself made enough profit to pay for all other sports programs, varsity and intramural. That was a big program (University of Michigan) but it's the same everywhere. Television dollars.

I went to college on the GI Bill. But regarding student loans, it's as much the parents as the students. When our oldest daughter was accepted at a good (but private) university, the school sent her a letter that said in effect "Unless your parents lied on your financial aid application or you have a very rich grandparent, you can't afford to come here." She ended up going to a school in the state system that was pretty reasonable and graduated with a manageable level of debt.
 
"Do we really need those expensive athletic programs? Why? "

Alums. I'm one that Arizona State pursued for a couple decades. They look at your property tax records and figure it's 30% of your net worth. Nowhere close in my case, but they have no way to know.

Since I'm so wealthy, surely I must fondly remember my dear old Alma Mater and want to help it out. Successful athletic programs help. Certainly works for the major U. near where I live now.

Fond memories are not mine, my first year at ASU the dean did his best to send me to Viet Nam. A few years ago I finally sent them a note saying that my bequest was to promise to never under any circumstance to ever give them a dime. They could save a fortune by stopping the incessant stream of expensive advertising. It worked! Even those graduate student phone calls stopped.

Now, regarding the value I received, that's another matter. Wasn't until my senior year that anybody explained what they were actually doing in graduate school, where I was headed. Horrified me.

Eventually I ended up working in the trades, and discovered a very real benefit to my college education. I spoke the same language as my customers: doctors, lawyers, ... Many in the trades did not, and it gave me a distinct advantage. My parents, who footed the bill, were relieved when I explained it. In my family a university education was never questioned. I'm the only one who never got beyond a bachelor's degree.

Trade schools have a firm place, as do institutions that provide nothing but education, be it under-water basket weaving or whatever. Caveat emptor.
 
I teach at a University SCSU in MN. Every student in our Technology programs, Engineering Program, (and Environmental Program as well), get solid experiences in technology labs. Building products and operating Machines. From CNC operations, to foundry, they get metal shavings in there shoes, Weld using tig, mig, SMAW, Spot, and Oxy-cetylene, and much more. They also get work ethic and value/responsibility elements. We have high employer satisfaction, and accreditation. We are an exception to your position. Jim
 
Many colleges have an inherent conflict of interest. Paired with government encouraged easy loan money, they are steering students into a lifetime of debt, and the taxpayers are going to foot the bill.
Think of it like this. If you wanted to get a business loan, you would need a sound business plan that shows the bank that getting paid back is pretty much a sure thing, or you will be shown the door pretty quick.
But the student loan scam is this: the school offers a degree plan in a field where the student has a very low probability of finding a job that would allow them to support themselves and pay back their student loans. The schools are steering students into these dead end careers, and what do they care? They have no skin in the game, as long as the student signs up, they are guaranteed their money and can continue to support academic departments that perpetuate the scam. To sweeten the pot, the schools offer degree plans filled with elective courses that build no skills in areas that would further the student's professional career - film appreciation, studies of various minority cultures / lifestyles, etc. If the student can't pay back the loan, it's not coming out of the school's pocket!
And the politicians of a particular party are salivating at the chance to "forgive" the student's debt and cement their relationship with the party that really cares for the little guy and sticks it to the evil capitalists.
I have three tractors that were paid for with my engineering degree.
 
The big banks *Love* the student loan programs. Guaranteed by the taxpayers so nothing to lose. Can't afford a car after you graduate? No problem we're more than happy to give you *another* loan! We'll make the payments low enough so that it will be eons before you bring the principal down and we'll make big on the interest. Nothing like having a generation of indentured servants to pave the Corporate way!
 
(quoted from post at 15:20:47 05/17/15) I teach at a University SCSU in MN. Every student in our Technology programs, Engineering Program, (and Environmental Program as well), get solid experiences in technology labs. Building products and operating Machines. From CNC operations, to foundry, they get metal shavings in there shoes, Weld using tig, mig, SMAW, Spot, and Oxy-cetylene, and much more. They also get work ethic and value/responsibility elements. We have high employer satisfaction, and accreditation. We are an exception to your position. Jim
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Not trying to be obtuse but I learned most of that in High School. :roll:

phil n
 
Tuition when I went to school was about $2500 per year, I took out loans for that and earned my living money. It took me about 10 years to get them paid back, and believe it was a good investment. I think you have to look at college as a long term investment, and pick a career that makes money. I chose Engineering and have made a good living at it.
 
But, your program does not have to do that stuff and make a profit. You do not have to worry about ROI on equipment as in the real world. I have been in auto repair for 20 years. The tech schools ruin kids by telling them they will make $90K out of the gate. They also teach them using the latest greatest equipment because the college does not need to show an ROI on the investment. It was fun when the shop would hire a tech school wonder and they would tell us all about the equipment they used. I would tell them that is all well and good, but that equipment does not exist in a real shop because the cost does not pencil out. That, and by the way, you can do the same thing with a hammer and screw driver, or a simple DVOM for electrical. I have never seen a tech school grad last more than a year in a real auto repair setting.
 
It's still possible to get through with little or no debt but you have to manage right. My youngest son graduated 2 years ago with almost no debt. He went 2 years at a local CC and got his basics and then finished. He lived at home and held a full time job. I paid his tuition and he paid all the fees and transportation, which turned out to be very expensive because of gas prices. He's debt free now and working on his masters. ASU has something like a $19 per credit hour athletic fee and just announced that they are raising costs another 4%. The added fee for athletics is more than the total cost when I went to college 35 years ago, that's a crock.
I'm glad I sent my kids to college but with the exception of my youngest they could all do what they are doing with a HS diploma. All the training they really needed came from HS but their employers require a degree. Some of the most successful people I know never went to college and one in particular is a HS dropout. Every good paying job that I've had didn't require my degree. We are being sold a bill of goods because everyone doesn't need a degree and somebody has to haul the trash. A college degree should be for the brightest and most driven regardless of genetics.IYKWIM.
 
(quoted from post at 17:06:58 05/17/15) Tuition when I went to school was about $2500 per year, I took out loans for that and earned my living money. It took me about 10 years to get them paid back, and believe it was a good investment. I think you have to look at college as a long term investment, and pick a career that makes money. I chose Engineering and have made a good living at it.
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Yes it is hard to determine whether ones success is because of a college degree or just the person. I graduated with three degrees and only used one for awhile, but maybe somewhere along the line college taught me I could do whatever I wanted and be successful. Fortunately I had little debt after I graduated because I had scholarships, grants and worked an internship job. I look back on my college years as the most enjoyable in my life....sure beat milking cows! Todays kids have a lot tougher choice....
 
(quoted from post at 16:20:47 05/17/15) I teach at a University SCSU in MN. Every student in our Technology programs, Engineering Program, (and Environmental Program as well), get solid experiences in technology labs. Building products and operating Machines. From CNC operations, to foundry, they get metal shavings in there shoes, Weld using tig, mig, SMAW, Spot, and Oxy-cetylene, and much more. They also get work ethic and value/responsibility elements. We have high employer satisfaction, and accreditation. We are an exception to your position. Jim
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Sounds like you are trying (Good on you) BUT there is no substitute for OJT (On Job Training) 8)
 
I should hope your son graduated with little debt, you said yourself you paid for the tutition. I am going to be an evil parent. If my kids
want to go to college, they can figure it out. I have too many customers living on peanut butter and driving junk cars so they can send
little Johnny to school to get his degree in applied basket weaving. Even if miracles happen and they get a good paying job, do you think
any of them turn around and help out old mom and dad? Haven't seen it yet.
 
(quoted from post at 04:00:41 05/18/15) I should hope your son graduated with little debt, you said yourself you paid for the tutition. I am going to be an evil parent. If my kids
want to go to college, they can figure it out. I have too many customers living on peanut butter and driving junk cars so they can send
little Johnny to school to get his degree in applied basket weaving. Even if miracles happen and they get a good paying job, do you think
any of them turn around and help out old mom and dad? Haven't seen it yet.
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True but my point was that it is possible. He made a car payment, paid gas and insurance. He paid for all the extra fees and books. He didn't get any grants or scholarships. So his part was considerably more than the tuition.
I've seen kids that had scholarships, grants, and their parents paid their tuition and they still finish with $100K debt.
If my kids were graduating HS today, I would encourage a good trade school. Those jobs are becoming a premium because, as you say, too many have their degree in basket weaving and have no marketable skills.
 
We went to a graduation ceremony at Penn State last weekend. Had a niece graduate from the School of Agriculture. Conservative estimate of 450 to 500 kids graduating that fine day. At $100,000.00 mean that's about $45 million dollars sitting there. For most of those young people that investment will pay off. An education provides you with a base of knowledge and experiences to build upon as you work and keep learning. It's a big hungry world out there. Those who learn, build upon that learning and most importantly innovate new technologies, ideas, knowledge will do well. The probabilities of success directly correlate to the application and innovation each individual has the opportunity and desire to create. And yes, sweat pays off in that mix! I spent 36 years educating young people. I am a small potato in a big bag, but I'm a good one!In the world coming, those young people have hope, they are my hope, and their education enables their hope.
Dave I Love My H Summers
 
(quoted from post at 21:57:07 05/17/15) It was in the news last week that ASU is paying the head football coach $3.5 million per year salary. Do we really need those expensive athletic programs? Why?
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Most of those programs pay their own way. Nearest example to me is Ohio State. Major sport coaches (football and b'ball) make the big dollars but their sports pay for other sports and all the required Title IX sports programs at the university, 900 athletes in 36 programs (men and women) total. The football program alone brought in $69.3 million in 2014 (as of January 2015). The estimated value of the program if it was sold like a professional team would be $1.1 BILLION! Do we need it? Probably not, but it's a reality we have to live with right now.

I believe there is more than the education, it's largely the individual and how they act, present themselves, ability to talk in proper English rather than "street" and write in something other than gibberish and have some personality. I work with a guy that is smart and educated, business degree from OSU and an MBA from a local respected private school, but he's annoying and difficult and has made some bad choices (including a wife that's a shrew, to be kind) and he's never done better than a job that high school educated clerks at our company do. On the other hand, I fellow I worked with some years ago didn't even have a college degree and retired at a fairly high position running a regional office, he's the kind of guy that everyone liked and respected personally and professionally.
 
Actually few sports programs pay their own way. The most successful football programs usually break even (its not like they are not going to spend everything they take in) the rest lose money hand over fist.



http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/08/ncaa_study_finds_all_but_20_fb.html


According to the NCAA only 20 football programs break even or better. Only about half of the basketball programs break even. Only one or two women's programs break even or better.
 
When I went to the University of Michigan 40 yrs ago, tuition was about $500/yr, IIRC. Met and married my wife while there. I had student loans for tuition, room and board, paid $29/mo for about 10 years to pay it off. Great investment, IMO.

All 3 of our kids went there as well. We helped them some and they had student loans for the rest. Two of the 3 ended up with loans close to $200k but that's because they went on to law school. Sounds like a lot and it is. But... one earns well over $200k/yr and she has paid off her loans in 7 years. At 33 years old, her future income stream looks pretty good. The other daughter attorney is just a couple of years into her career and her future income stream looks about the same.

My point is that, yes, college is expensive and the student loans can be daunting. However, it's an investment and like any investment it can pay off or go sour. It's up to the individual to make the most out of the opportunity that a student loan gives them. Squander it and pay the consequences. Use it wisely and it'll pay off for you.

So, quit blaming the government, banks and everybody else for everything that goes wrong in one's life, including a student's voluntary loan to pay for their higher education.
 
I don't feel sorry for college kids with debt. On average over their life time they will earn $1,000,000 more than an average kid who didn.t go to college.
 
Kids don't wait to go to college to get drunk and do drugs, they do it in high school first while they are still living with their parents.
 
Told my kids I would pay half, like my parents did, with any scholarship money going all towards their half. My oldest starts grad school this fall, $603 per credit hour, estimated $33K for the year total. His program had 100% placement three years running, ave starting salary $104K, so it seems reasonable.

I took out loans and put them in CDs which were paying 10% plus back then. No payment due until graduation, then paid them off and kept the interest. Wish I had thought of that right away, rather than 3 years in.
 
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