Plowing, Hillsides and Trash

Looking ahead some today.

We've got some pasture that has been idle for many years and what pine trees haven't taken over, olive autumn has. We're clearing the pines this summer (another story) and probably this fall - after the frost, we'll take down the autumn olive via bush hog. I'm only focusing on recovering the autumn olive pasture at the moment. What the bush hog doesn't grind up, we have to deal with sticks and small/shallow stumps - trash. What I'm thinking about doing is plowing under the remains of the autumn olive and adding lime (per soil sample) and some nitrogen fixing legume. The idea is to somewhat bury the debris and hasten it's rot, as well as enriching the soil. Maybe a legume is not the answer, but what I want to do is let it grow and then plow it under to help enrich the soil. After that - the goal would be to make hay fields from the pasture.

This pasture is somewhat rolling. Kind of like the top of a beach ball - somewhat flat on top, but then curves down on all sides until to steep to safely run a tractor. With the slope, I'm thinking we need to get our hands on a hillside plow.

Question - am asking for trouble from the get-go plowing under olive autumn debris and roots? Any particular angle before a hillside plow is necessary?

Down on the flat lands - this fall we will start over with those fields. The present plan is to burn them down and no-till plant. However there is some lumpiness to these fields and I've thought about plowing them when we start over to kind of smooth things out when we are done and help get the lime in the soil.

Our problem is - our land is the Saudi Arabia of rocks! I'm looking/learning about rock pickers and if we plow anything, I think we might need to consider one - maybe a rental.

Short of buying another plow - what we have is a low hour Ford 101 - 2 bottom plow. Pretty sure it is a 101. I know it's OK for the flat ground, but not so sure on the hillsides.

Question - is there any to adjust a 3 pt plow to move it over like a hillside plow?

Lastly - I mentioned burning the fields down. It would be via round-up. Where does moldboard plowing mix-in with that? No need for round-up if you moldboard or is both recommend, round-up and then plow?

Any tips, advice is much appreciated.

Thanks!
Bill

Under Edit: probably should have been clearer in my post above - the pasture I want to reclaim is for new hayfields, not for pasture grazing.

If those autumn olives are more than an inch or so in diameter,you're going to have to pull them out and drag them off the field. Those roots will just clog the plow. You won't be able to turn that mess under.

A hillside plow rolls over or consists of two separate plows so you can plow to the right going one direction and to the left going the other way,so turning a two bottom Ford plow into a hillside,no,it can't be done.

Roundup,yes,spray,burn down the vegetation then plow.

Once you cut off the trees,bushes etc get a bog disk if you can find one or the heaviest
offset disk you can pull and have at it don't even think about plowing between the roots and the rock in your area it won't work worth a darn.It'll take several times disking over a couple months but you'll get it killed down.I did a deer plot last year that I bush hogged off the bushes and trees taller than 'Big Blue' my 80HP UTB tractor and the 10ft sidewinder cutter.Disked it about every 3 weeks to keep killing the growth around Aug 1st I planted turnips,Crimson Clover and some assorted seed mixes then overseeded rye in Nov. after the deer had worked the plot over pretty good.Now its amazing the transformation in just a year.I also spread lime and Turkey litter last Summer while I was disking everything it.

In ground that steep and perhaps rocky and root bound, I would look to rehab what is there, or notill new pasture into it.

And, I'm a guy that still farms full tillage.....

But you are just making a lot of problems by trying to plow that stuff twice.

If it has grasses in it at all, could you Tordon/ Grazeon the whole mess after clipping off the tres, and spread the lime/ fert, and then broadcast seed some better grass seed, and if needed lightly work with a light disk? Or just a harrow.

The lime will slowly work in on its own. A light disk that doesn't kill the current grass would help. Just rough it up a tad to get the seed and some bit of dirt mix.

I think you would end up with a pasture quicker, and far less stress this way.

Tordon/ Grazeon will not let you plant legume for some years; but you need to deal with the tree issue, you have a lot of suckers out there, even with plowing they would be back. The special pasture spray will knock them dead and keep the suckers dead, you will be ahead of the game and could interseed so,e legumes in 3-5 years when the pasture is in good shape.

Paul

I would not try to plow it, bush hog close as you can, burn it off good a couple time with roundup, then broadcast and cullipack.

Well back in my sludge spreading days a few years ago! We would push locus trees off strip mined ground and spread sludge on it and chisel plow it! Go find a couple of old 3 pt chisel plows use one for parts cause your gonna bust springs u bolts and shanks and between the two you can keep one goin or buy a jd john deere still supports parts for the old 100 model chisel plow shanks and all! If its real rocky buy a pull type no disc and usually they I'll bounce over the rocks I seen them hit rocks and fly 4 ft in the air! And I have seen them rip 3 ft diameter rocks outta the ground! And when it comes to the foots the chisel plow you can use as a big rake! Oh if you go this route and buy a chisel plow take some of the shanks off and leave about 2 ft inbetween the shanks now 12 like factory that's let's junk slide through and gives you extra parts! You just chisel it twice or more a chisel you can run back over and tear up ground not like mold board plow! That's what I do good luck

we just bush hog the brush down and keep it mowed for a while. If there is grass in there it will come back quickly. At least around here it will. If you are into spraying go ahead and kill the nasties off. Around here if you plow a steep hill it will erode very quickly. I like the idea of leaving the trash on top and sowing new grass right in amongst it. If it is going to be pasture the trash wont hurt and will help hold the soil.
Jay

Autumn olive has very shallow roots. The fields my dad and I farm are stony as well, very stony. Whenever we reclaim ground, we use a backhoe front bucket or the bucket on our skidsteer and push right at ground level, and usually they'll slide the roots out of the ground. Then we chisel plow, disk a few times, and run a field cultivator to pick up the brush/roots left over, drag it over by the fencerow, lift it up, back up, then push the junk into the fencerow with the backhoe.

Ross

The "hillside" plow you mention is simply a twoway/roll over.Not to be confused with a "hillside" hitch on pull type plows.A rollover lets you throw all the dirt the same way(uphill) If you have rocks,you NEED trip bottoms. Two ways are readyly available out west in the flood irrigated areas.Some can even be found 'back east'.

Thinking about it since its a pasture why not get some meat goats? I raise meat goats and they will improve pasture land as quick as anything in about 3 to 5 years they'll have it looking like a lawn.Goats will eat down the Russian Olive,multiflora rose,honeysuckel,Cedar trees etc and turn it into a first class fertilizer to boot.The last goat kids I sold (50 to 60 lbers) I averaged over $3 a lb.Cattle and goats together work the best and you can throw in a few geese to keep the slugs and small snakes down.Goats keep the fence lines clean and I never have to bush hog a field the goats run in.

Thanks everyone for your replies!

One thing I wasn't clear about in my original post is that I want to reclaim these old pastures for hay fields - not pasture/grazing.

I also edited my post to reflect this.

Thanks again!
Bill