Need some help with 1964 F-250 rear drum brakes

Paul Shuler · Apr 3, 2015

Since it has warmed up I have been working on the brakes and cleaning up the wheels and hubs on my old 64 F250. I did the fronts and replaced a leaking wheel cylinder and painted the wheels all went just fine. One of the back wheels has a bad leaking wheel cylinder so I have moved on to those. My problem is the 3 big flat head screws that hold the hub on. The front ones turned right out. I have done all I know to do and cannot budge the back ones. I have a impact driver that you whack with a hammer and they just laughed at that. I have soaked them. Heated them. No go. I am open to any and all ideas. If I removed all the nuts on the end of the axel will that allow the drum to slide off?

Super Trucker · Apr 3, 2015

I would try the heat and beeswax trick. I was luck on the last one I did with the impact driver.

Angle Iron · Apr 3, 2015

That will allow you to pull the axle, then you will be able to see the retaining nut or nuts to remove the hub assembly. Remember to back the brake shoes off before so they don't fight you. I guess you know that as you have already done the fronts. Be careful those hubs are very heavy.

El Toro · Apr 3, 2015

I don't think removing those nuts will help. You can weld a cap screw bolt to those retaining slot head bolts. Then you can use a socket and ratchet. The heat from welding should help
to free them. Hal

Steve@Advance · Apr 3, 2015

Those are soft, low grade screws. Just drill the heads off. Once the drum is off there may be enough to get vice grips on the remains and get them out. If not, just grind them off flush. Their only purpose is to keep the drum from falling off during assembly.

cannonball · Apr 3, 2015

Put a round rod on head and hit rod with hammer....

Paul Janke · Apr 3, 2015

I have used a screwdriver that was metal through to the end of the handle. I put vise grips on the shank to turn the screwdriver and hammered on the end of the screwdriver with an air hammer. That provides many blows in a short time, the screwdriver doesn't have time to jump out of the slot, and the twisting force can be controlled so you don't jump out of the slot or strip the slot. That method gives enough force to pop the head of the screw off if used for overtightening the screw. I don't suppose you can figure out how I know that.

Blackhole49 · Apr 3, 2015

Ihad them like that on an 8n. Took the whole hub to the mechanic at work and he had them out in a couple of seconds. He used an air chisel in the slot at the outside in the direction of removal. Hope it works for you.

rustyfarmall · Apr 3, 2015

(quoted from post at 05:25:23 04/03/15) Those are soft, low grade screws. Just drill the heads off. Once the drum is off there may be enough to get vice grips on the remains and get them out. If not, just grind them off flush. Their only purpose is to keep the drum from falling off during assembly.

YES. Once those screws are removed, they do not need to be reinstalled.

Have you tried welding a nut to the head of those screws?

the tractor vet · Apr 3, 2015

Well the best thing for removal of those old pesty hold down screws was a hand held impact driver and a four pound hammer . Trying to use a screw driver would just camout on you . Same thing would happen with trying to use a screwdriver bit on a impact wrench , but the old impactdriver got them out everytime .

JK-NY · Apr 3, 2015

You can pull the axle, hub and drum . Rmove the axle bolts - you may need to hit the axle in the center with a big hammer to get it to pop out a little . Then pull axle - remove large nut that holds outer bearing , remove bearing and you can then remove the hub and drum together. You only need to remove those screws if you want to replace the drum. Once it is apart I would use an impact screwdriver on them with the drum laid flat if you want them out- or drill them out. If you pull the hub you may need to (should) replace the seal on the hub. As mentioned be sure you have the brakes backed way off. Good luck.

GVSII · Apr 3, 2015

(quoted from post at 05:25:23 04/03/15) Those are soft, low grade screws. Just drill the heads off. Once the drum is off there may be enough to get vice grips on the remains and get them out. If not, just grind them off flush. Their only purpose is to keep the drum from falling off during assembly.

What he and rustyfarmall said.May still have to heat up around the wheel studs to break the rust bond between the drum and axel flange.

JRSutton · Apr 3, 2015

Somebody else said it - but I'll second it.

Everybody should own a hand held impact screw driver JUST for those screws.

It'll take them right out.

Once you use it, you'll wonder how you ever lived with out it.

End of story.

...

... seriously - go buy one!

<image src="http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto18599.jpg"/>

PJH · Apr 3, 2015

Good job on those front wheels!!

Paul Shuler · Apr 3, 2015

I spent two hours using that exact same one. Hitting it as hard as I could swing a 4lb hammer. Didnt budge them.

JRSutton · Apr 3, 2015

Really? I've never had one not work with an impact driver.

Sure some have put up a fight, but nothing a minute of pounding didn't correct.

If one ever did give me more of a struggle, I'd just heat it with a torch and I'd think it'd come right out - just never had to go that far with one.

But hey, even if there are one or two screws that it doesn't work on - it's still worth owning one because there are so many it will work for. They don't cost all that much.

JRSutton · Apr 3, 2015

Sorry - just realized you're the original poster - so you DO own one!

Well then I'd just hit it with more heat.

When you say you've heated them - are you getting them glowing red when you heat them?

You could try welding a nut to it - but I think what really works when doing that is the heat itself from welding, but it'd give you something to grab.

GVSII · Apr 3, 2015

(quoted from post at 07:31:01 04/03/15) Somebody else said it - but I'll second it.

Everybody should own a hand held impact screw driver JUST for those screws.

It'll take them right out.

Once you use it, you'll wonder how you ever lived with out it.

End of story.

I have two of those drivers.One is like new,never used, i's a back up.The other is many years old and well used to the point I've had to grind the head 3 or 4 times to clean it up.It's not only good on screws but also on nuts.It has saved me a lot of drilling!
...

... seriously - go buy one!

<image src="http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto18599.jpg"/>

ETxJohn · Apr 3, 2015

Why would anyone remove the axle and hub assy.You still do not have the brake drum off. Anything you can do with the assy. off, you can do with it on.

tn terry t · Apr 3, 2015

(quoted from post at 11:44:29 04/03/15) Why would anyone remove the axle and hub assy.You still do not have the brake drum off. Anything you can do with the assy. off, you can do with it on.

would you like to explain what the brake drum is attached to if its not attached to the hub?

gab · Apr 3, 2015

If I couldn't move them with a impact driver I'd try to rattle them out with an air chisel. If that won't work center punch and drill them out until the head pops off, you don't need them anyway.

Paul Shuler · Apr 3, 2015

That's kind of the plan I have for this afternoon after work. I spent more time yesterday messing with them than it took to do the front brakes and new wheel cylinders. I am not as good at rolling around on the concrete floor for 4 hours like I used to be. I love to work on old stuff but the rusted and stuck bolts get me frustrated. I will try and give an update this weekend and let you guys know how it went. Thanks to everyone for the all the replys.

VADAVE · Apr 3, 2015

Paul have you ever used the hand impact before? You have to REALLY HOLD it to keep it from twisting backward, just whacking on it does no good.
Now I suggest you get a penetrating oil such as PB Blaster and squint it a couple of times then squint it again in the evening and again in the morning then leave the business alone for a couple of days--give the oil a chance to penetrate. Then try the impact wrench again.
If it doesn't come loose after that get the heat out and really heat up the screw. Don't melt it but get it red hot and let it cool. Should turn right out. You don't use heat the first time cause it doesn't do the rest of the parts, including grease, any good.

Paul Shuler · Apr 3, 2015

I have used the impact before. My wife’s Honda CRV has the same dang screws in the rear drums. It worked great on those. I will check my technique how I was using it and try again. I was so dang tired last night I'm amazed I didn’t mash a finger or something.

ObsoElitist · Apr 3, 2015

Drill the heads out witha 1/4 inch drill. If you cant remove the remains, no problem, they do nothing when the wheel is back on. The job is not complete unless you pull the axles and hubs to inspect the bearings and replace the seals, so unless the drums need replacement, leave the screws alone

JRSutton · Apr 3, 2015

Yeah- I always wondered if it was just in my head, but I've found that if you put pressure on the driver, like trying to turn it to unscrew the screw, while you hit it, it works a little better.

I do agree with others that the screw is useless and you can live just fine without it - but I'm obsessive compulsive - kind drives me nuts not to put them back in. But if real red hot heat doesn't work, it's not worth killing yourself over it.

Those 4 pound hammers do hurt. Not worth the struggle. drill it grind it, and move on.

GregCO · Apr 3, 2015

I agree with everybody else. If you can't get them out with a hand held impact driver just drill the head off and move on. They were only there to hold the drum on while the axle was in shipment and while going down the assembly line.

Greg

ObsoElitist · Apr 3, 2015

(quoted from post at 17:32:04 04/03/15) I agree with everybody else. If you can't get them out with a hand held impact driver just drill the head off and move on. They were only there to hold the drum on while the axle was in shipment and while going down the assembly line.

Greg

They are useful for drum turning and adjusting the shoes with the wheel off.

ETxJohn · Apr 4, 2015

ETxJohn wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:44:29 04/03/15) Why would anyone remove the axle and hub assy.You still do not have the brake drum off. Anything you can do with the assy. off, you can do with it on.
would you like to explain what the brake drum is attached to if its not attached to the hub?
Sorry my fingers got ahead of my brain. I meant you don't have it APART. Taking the hub off necessitates probably a new seal and readjusting the bearings, a lot of extra work for a few mins. with a drill.

ObsoElitist · Apr 4, 2015

(quoted from post at 22:36:52 04/03/15) ETxJohn wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:44:29 04/03/15) Taking the hub off necessitates probably a new seal and readjusting the bearings, a lot of extra work for a few mins. with a drill.

Unless the seal leaks and dumps grease or oil on your new shoes, or the bearings are in need of replacement. Then you have wasted both time and money. This is why I would not do that job for a customer or myself without taking the hubs off.

Need some help with 1964 F-250 rear drum brakes

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