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What do you guys think of this?

Ultradog MN

Ultradog MN

Well-known Member
Location
Twin Cities
Houston Chronical had an article and linked to this youtube video.
Botder patrol agents breaking the window and taking a man out of his truck because he wont answer whether he's a US citizen or not. 100 miles north of the border.
I thought they can ask but but you are not required to answer.

Skip to about the 6 minute mark.


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yhtDTOHigcg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Article in Houston Chronical
 
i read something about this a while back.i think it is a violation of privacy that they need probable cause or something like that to question you. there are some you tube videos that explain whats going on there with the border patrol. john t can prolly splain that better , he knows about all that law stuff.
 
I imagine it gets kind of old being stopped and asked if you are a citizen when you live/travel near the border. I never have so I don't know, but 100 miles from the border seems a little far to stop and ask questions doesn't it. The Germans were pretty good at asking for "zee paperz pleaze" and we all know how that ended.

My opinion is that:
If the law states you don't have to answer questions then you don't have to answer questions.
End of story

I'm sure sure some here will question why he didn't just answer the question if he was a citizen. To those people I would counter with:

If you have nothing to hide then you won't mind if officers of the law search you and your possessions whenever and however they want, and take as long as they want in doing so. Do you understand where this is going?

Nate
 
Mixed thoughts.

First - if he were working for me he'd be fired. Right or wrong, he was provoking a confrontation - that's why he was filming it.

Next - I don't know what the law is when it comes to the authority the police have in a case like this.

This guy thinks he does - and maybe he's right.

But even assuming he IS correct - the place to have this debate isn't on the side of the road with some police officer's who don't know the law fully.

I'm all for preserving our freedoms - all the way - I think his heart's in the right place.

But he's also assuming police officers are lawyers. They're not. They have to enforce the laws as best they can - if there's a dispute, you have to err on the side of doing what the cop says, then arguing about it in court.

Police officers are not there to have a lengthy debate about their interpretations of the law - that's not their job.

You disagree with a cop's interpretation of a law - you argue it in court later. Sue them if you really have to prove a point. But this is just not the right approach.
 
I go through the Border patrol station south of Kingsville often. It is about 100 miles from border. The US / Mexico border is so porous that there is a lot of free movement within 25 miles of border. So the Border Patrol has a station out in the middle of desert where there are no side roads. The drug dogs go around your vehicle and they ask if you are a U S citizen and you say yes, they tell you to have a good day. If you get confrontational, right or wrong, you are going to be there for a spell. It has been my experience, night or day is to be as pleasant as you would like them to be to you and if you don't got drugs, they normally are that nice. I have also seen them take every passenger and luggage off of a bus. Just sayin
 
Idiot. I've been through numerous Border Patrol checkpoints. Answer the questions politely and you are on your way. Most of the time they just waved us through because our vehicle and appearance didn't fit any profiles that they are looking for. Obviously something about the rig and/or the driver raised suspicions that caused the patrol to stop the driver.

As I keep saying, our biggest surplus in this country is DUMB - this guy is a prime example.
 
The company that owns the truck should send two people out one to repair the window and another to drive the truck. The driver that was so stupid should not have a job at that point. YOU JUST CAN'T FIX STUPID

Bob
 
There are easy ways to start a tractor, and not so easy ways to start a tractor. Whenever possible, I prefer the easy ways. It has something to do with aging. When I was younger, sometimes I didn't think things through all the way either.

Mark
 

I live about 10-12 miles from the Canadian border. I've worked with the USBP over 20 years, they've pulled my butt out of the fire a couple times and vice versa. Some of the very young guys can be a little over the top, but that goes for any line of work. I've also been stopped dozens and dozens of times at their checkpoints and I've never had anything even approaching a confrontation or experienced any rude behavior. That's with guys that didn't know me from Adam. I've also stood checkpoints with the BP and I've never seen anything confrontational except where the citizen/illegal made it a problem. When you have someone do everything in their power to provoke a response...well, what do you really expect to have happen?

Some of the people who complain the most about the BP are the same people complaining about the porous border and illegals. That makes zero sense to me.

And yes, the USBP can have checkpoints well away from the border. I forget the distances, but they are significant.
 
First this guy(?) was looking for it. Second, the agent was doing his job. The agent should have hooked a chain on that nose ring and lead the idiot out of the truck.

Some people JUST have to have their 15 minutes of "fame" this was his feeble attempt.

I was stationed at Ft Bliss Texas, we used to go to across the border (a lot). Anyway we had to declare our citizenship coming back into the USA. One of my " smartazz buddies " upon reentry said US pause SR. His azz was in front of an offical so fast and lets just say he had a lot of "explaining to do". The US Boarder patrol doesen't take flack from a US Army private.
joe
 
What has me scratching my head is that the general consensus here is that being in the country illegally is BAD. Illegals should be rounded up and sent back across the border.

If you tie the law enforcement's hands by not allowing them to ask for proof that someone is here legally, how are we supposed to deal with the illegal problem?
 
Youtube is full of videos of people at these checkpoints. One I like in particular has the guy politely refusing to answer if he is a citizen and when he is asked to pull over to "secondary", he politely says "no thank you" several times then "Am I free to go". And they just nod and say "go ahead".


The point that these guys are making is that you don't have to answer the citizenship question OR produce ID unless there is probable cause that you've done something wrong. Can't fault them for exercising their rights. Interesting that a lot of guys on here would be pretty upset if law enforcement tried to take their gun (a 2nd Amendment right) but don't seem perturbed by unlawful search and seizures (4th Amendment protection). As some here have said, it sounds a lot like "ze paperz pleeze". A famous guy said something like "I may disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it".

Myself? I'd probably answer the question and be on my way.
 
This enforcement officer was 10 times more thorough and accurate and humane than required. When someone stands there and actually reads you the law and gives you as many chances to comply as he did, I don't even know if "idiot" quite describes this guy correctly. Pleading the 5th or 4th doesn't let one head on up the road. (unless you are a politician)
 
While I think the agent was very professional I find it disturbing that the right to freedom of movement of US citizens is changing/being challenged. How long before there are check points throughout the country? No, I don't like this one little bit. To me it's just one more of our freedoms that are eroding. And the bad part here is normally I don't buy into conspiracy stuff.

Rick
 
If every one that answered would read the article instead of just watching the video, it would explain a lot. It's too much to really go into, but it works out to the fact that they can ask about citizenship, but can not search without probable cause. Funny thing that is mentioned is that if 'detained' for not answering the question, the first thing that happens is that they are read their Miranda rights that start with "You have the right to remain silent".

I can understand the need to question people when crossing the border, but 100 miles inland, to me, is a bit much. With that thought in mind, it seems that when traveling the roads, and having never even left the country, the right to "remain silent" when questioned isn't as much of a right as we'd like to believe................thus one of the problems with this particular scenario. Basically if we give up, or let this simple right be taken freely, then what's next? That's what I have a problem with, especially when you look at the other freedoms they are trying to hard to take, one step at a time.
 
After my post I did a little online searching. It appears the Supreme Court has held the stop and searches to be legal at the "permanent" checkpoints but not at "roving patrols". Since the case in question did not center on refusing to answer the citizenship question, I could not find a definitive SCOTUS statement on that. It appears an agent can subject you to minimal questioning to satisfy himself that there are no illegal aliens in the vehicle. You just smiling or offering to spend 10 minutes reading the Bible to him could satisfy him as several videos posted online indicate. There is also the quandary of "not incriminating yourself" along with "right to remain silent" that would seem to contradict the agent's questioning you.

Considering that a number of US citizens have been tried and convicted (and spent time in jail) by local juries for not answering the questions , I'd not want to put my fate in the hands of people who may be sick of illegals running around their town and decide to send a message.
 
I used to substitute drive for a fellow. I drove all over the South-Western US. I never had an issue at the check points. What is the harm in just answering if your a citizen or not???? Now if they wanted to search the truck or needed my SS number, then that is a different story. Actually I am PROUD of the fact that I AM a US citizen.
 
I have been threw the check point (I10 east) in Sierra Blanca Texas over 100 times and have never had a problem. Most times they just flag you threw. So times they stop you and ask a few questions. You answer the questions and are on your merry way.

For one this guy gave up most of his rights when he stepped into a commercial vehicle.
They do not even need a check point.
He can be stopped on the side of the road and asked all kinds of questions.

And secondly I wonder how he will get home to California.
He needs to go threw the Arizona check point at the state line where every car is searched for things that are not allowed into the state.
My nephew found out about this check point the hard way. His grand paw (my dad) gave him a small flowering plant while he was visiting. The check point guy told him you can not bring that plant into this state.
Poor boy was only about 6 at the time and did not understand. Said you can not take my plant; my paw paw gave this to me. Broke my sisters heart to make her son leave the plant behind.
Those patrol guys always have bags of confiscated fruit to eat while at work.
 
I know a guy who regularly posts radical right wing statements on Facebook. On the advice of his immigration attorney, he married a girl that lives in another country with the expectations that would speed her entry in the U.S. However, she can't even get a visa from the State Department to come here to visit.

His job requires him to take loads to Canada and bring back loads. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if he pulled a stunt like that at the border and made a Watch List. Don't know if that happened or if his rantings on social media are holding things up. He should know that he's not going to change things with his radical rants; it looks like the only thing that has happened is he harmed himself. Guess he has the right to do that.

Young people call that behavior "acts of civil disobedience". Knew a gal in CA who thought that she was smart to pull that behavior with the cops. A few days in jail changed her mind about that.
 
(quoted from post at 20:44:19 03/31/15) Youtube is full of videos of people at these checkpoints. One I like in particular has the guy politely refusing to answer if he is a citizen and when he is asked to pull over to "secondary", he politely says "no thank you" several times then "Am I free to go". And they just nod and say "go ahead".


The point that these guys are making is that you don't have to answer the citizenship question OR produce ID unless there is probable cause that you've done something wrong. Can't fault them for exercising their rights. Interesting that a lot of guys on here would be pretty upset if law enforcement tried to take their gun (a 2nd Amendment right) but don't seem perturbed by unlawful search and seizures (4th Amendment protection). As some here have said, it sounds a lot like "ze paperz pleeze". A famous guy said something like "I may disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it".

Myself? I'd probably answer the question and be on my way.
Click to expand...

There is no "unlawful search and seizure" though, that's the point.
 
Yes, when I worked on the upstate correctional facility, not only did I literally see them at the end of Bare Hill Road, a dead end at the time,+ more obscure places around Malone, I'd also have to run through their check points quite a ways south on the Northway, quite often actually, always while on the way home for the weekend. In the year and a half I was up there, one thing was for sure, border patrols were quite visible and this was pre 9-11. With all the times I went through the check points, don't ever recall having any words with any of them.
 
What many may not realize is that congress by law has created what could be called constitution free zones. Within one hundred miles of all US borders many of our constitutionally mandated rights have been done away with. The gentleman in the truck in the video found that out when he arrested, not for any probable cause, but rather for not answering questions. It is ironic that once he was arrested he was read his Miranda rights which include the right to remain silent. It is indeed disturbing to note that our 'rights' under the constitution continue to be slowly chipped away. I am truly concerned for my children and grandchildren.
 
I don't think you understand the amount of drugs. Coming up from Mexico.I live off of I-45 in south east Texas.Every week they are catching someone with drugs.Last week they found 500 pounds in a truck out of Mexico. Happens so often that the local papers no longer report it.There is a reason they ask questions.I have been through many checkpoints when I was on the road. Most of the time they just wave you through.When I was asked it took a whole 3 minutes to get through the checkpoint. This guy was looking for trouble.
 
I find it funny how people that get beligerant with the authorities, get so upset when the authorities return the favor. Do I like the fact that these agencies can, and do hastle people for no good reason, No. That said, I have always had the opinion that any time I am approaced by anyone from any law enforcement agency, it is No Sir (or mam) or yes Sir (or mam). Arguing with someone with a gun and a taser can never end well.... Had he coplied and been respectful and responsive to the officers and this still happened, then he would have a case, in my opinion...
 
Got a man in my town. Complains all the time about the border being wide open. But then complains about the border patrol trying to do their job.
 

I have no problem with trying to stem the flow of drugs/illegals from Mexico. However, I believe this should be done at the border. Doing it up to 100 miles away seems to be a little too late. I.e. how much has gotten through by going around these checkpoints?

I don't understand why we can't make our border more secure. Israel does it. The East Germans did it. Maybe a no-mans zone with automatic machine guns and/or quicksand between fences. I know the smugglers are digging tunnels but with all the seismological technology we have, I think we can do a better job of detecting them.

Beyond the issue of illegals/drugs, if ISIS or Al Quaeda wanted to enter the US, where is the easiest spot to do it? The Mexican border would seem to be a good candidate.
 
Common sense ain't so common now a day's & you just can't fix stupid. I live in the foothills here in NC and I'll guarantee you if an officer asks me I'll tell him YES SIR in a heartbeat.

If you don't like it go to the local majistrate and have a conversation with him. Much better than trying to convince an officer just doing his job that he's wrong and his boss that hands him his paycheck is wrong, etc. There's this thing about a time and a place ---
 
Corrupt, jackbooted gestapo, all federal law enforcement is highly suspect these days and the majority of state and local law enforcement are no better. These agencies need to be torn down and mostly done away with, all these protected classes of employees and very few if any of them understand the law or constitution. And people wonder why private citizens need the 2nd amendment.
 
The driver is a complete horses a$$ and excellent example of a jr. high brat. I want safe borders as well as freedom. He was hindering both ideals. gm
 
I would take it this guy is no longer an employee of Swift trucking after his employer got wind of this. That cost his employer some dollars for window repair and most likely they impounded the truck.
 
As I saw from watching from the beginning, this guy is on a road 100 miles from the border that is a known route for smugglers and illegal haulers, at a known permanent checkpoint. He sets up a camera for no other purpose than to record his meeting, then refuses to provide reasonable information. My first thought as a patrolman would be that he was trying to distract me or others from another vehicle, or to intimidate me by the camera into not inspecting him. All he would have had to do was say he was a US citizen and be on his way, but he wanted a confrontation either as his way for fame, or to lay the groundwork for loosening the inspections and allowing more drugs, etc. to get through. I also would suspect he no longer has a job driving, unless his employer (Swift) was in on it to make it easier for them to get things through.

I went back and watched the first part again and noticed that every now and then you would see a smile start to flicker across the drivers face and the corner of his lips and he would turn his face away from the camera as if watching other vehicles and traffic, even before he reached the first stop. IMHO he was intentionally setting all of this up just to get attention.

2nd edit, Remember all the rights everyone talks about are guaranteed to citizens of the U.S.A., and those traveling here legally. By refusing to identify himself as a US citizen and then refusing to show his ID or drivers license, he was proving he was trying to be prove he was a smart a$$ and effectively refusing those rights.,
 
He screwed up, the border patrol agents asked him to pull into the secondary area. He did that but then they wanted to "detain" him without probable cause (illegal-BP knows this). Since he resisted that action, they busted the window and were waiting for an excuse to Rodney King him. If he would have just exited the truck and walked into the building to be "detained" illegally like he was asked, he would have been back on the road in a little while, and Dart wouldnt have been the wiser. Then, he could have maintained the legal and moral high ground and fought the lack of probable cause if he felt like it, or at least gotten back on the road without having to answer the citizenship question, which seems to be his end goal.

For all those that said he was in the wrong (including me in a way), you should note that dispite getting roughed up and taken in to be "detained", they still let him walk. BP knew they had nothing on him so they couldnt arrest him or charge him with anything. There are tons of these videos out there and just as many hungry lawyers hoping to make a name for themselves by taking a trumped up case.

The driver dont have to give BP a declaration of citizenship but he has to follow their other rules including allowing the BP to illegally detain him. If the driver dont, he is resisting and weather he is right or not becomes irrelevant.

I think this case is just like carrying a large pistol on your hip, just because you can, doesnt mean you should.
 
Most of the agents are stationed between 100 and 200 miles from the border.
The cartels control the border. Most ranchers leave their phones in their trucks for fear of some cartel operative thinking they are calling the law.
The one cartel had such a sophisticated radio network that they knew more about events at the border than we did. After the man who set it up for them was caught the border became a very dangerous place for anyone who could work on or program a radio. They thought nothing of climbing a cell tower and reprogramming the repeaters to encrypt and relay their radio signals, in broad daylight.
They set someone up on a ridge with some car batteries and solar panels and a week of supplies. He sits there and if BP is sniffing around directs smugglers and coyotes around them.
And there is no sneaking in on them. They can see you coming for miles.
 
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