Nostalgia

Several days ago JD Seller posted a very interesting topic "older iron vs newer iron" making the point that many newer tractors are more comfortable, useful, and reliable than antique tractors. Lots of good responses, most people saying they can't get the volume of farming required today with antique tractors. My renter quit farming ten years ago because his 3 main tractors were 25 years old, and major repairs were on the horizon. Big tractors, cabs and all. All told, it became overwhelming for he and his wife to handle 1000 acres, and for him to stay a machine operator at the county landfill. Operator's job became full time, and included health insurance, and a retirement pension.
With all that said, why not concede that it is the nostalgia thing that keeps us interested in antique tractors? It's not that the old tractors aren't a fun hobby, it's just like trying to bring a pocket knife to a chainsaw contest in today's farming environment

There really is no old vs. new controversy. Tractors, when new, were up to date and current with animal farmer and cash farmer needs. They were all top of the line and most modern when new. The nostalgia is the fun part of it all, bringing back memories and sharing an important part of this nations history. It may not be practical to do the large acreage that is done now with old iron but it is capable if enough hour in the day. I love tinkering with the old and working with it as I will never be able to afford new. I am also not working hundreds of acres so it suits my needs just dandy. Sadly, I feel the nostalgia will shortly be lost.

It just depends on what you're using them for. For heavy field work,yes,big,powerful and comfortable are a must. But on a livestock and hay operation these older tractors are just fine. I use a 1951 Oliver 77 every day,seven days a week 365 to feed silage. I use a 1963 Oliver 1600 with a loader to handle round bales every day and a 1967 1550 gas on the big double hay rake. There's no reason on earth to be making payments on a new tractor for those jobs when those old ones are just as reliable as new ones.
Not everybody cash crops corn and beans. Some of us make a good living raising livestock with this older stuff that's paid for.

It has to do with economics too.
With the average low money return of farming it often does not pay to invest in new equipment and not everybody is willing to start farming more acres and then having work harder (with all the headaches involved) to pay for the darn things.
I rather invest in a few more older used tractors than i really need and spread the hours among them as to make them last longer. That way i won't be out of business in case a tractor breaks down versus having only one expensive new one that when gives up the ghost and leaves one sit and picking his nose or going bananas till it is fixed.

I also have an easier life by farming fewer acres with less tractor hours and costs and still have the same net income as the bigger operator with twice or more the acreage and high input and machinery costs.
Quality of life versus quantity of life.
My motto,...Work smarter..not harder.
I don't need AC or GPS or whatever modern gadget in a sound guard cab on a tractor for the couple hundred hours i drive them per year.

A lot of the farmers in my area still use 25 - 35 year old tractors for most of their work in the under 200 hp class, but it's not out of nostalgia - it's just in that range the older tractors are still useful.
Of course there are a few BTO's, and they use the big new stuff.
I'm lucky to do 10k of small squares a year, so I definitely have to use the old stuff.
I agree though - I like using them because it reminds me of when I was a kid.
Pete

You've hit the nail right on the head. I remember when guy out east of town bought a big new four wheel drive Deere. We were talking about it at a family reunion. I asked why he needed a tractor like that? A cousin said "To farm all that ground". I asked why he needed to farm all that ground. The cousin said "To pay for that big tractor". And there's a lot of truth to that.
Some folks still don't get what I'm talking about when I talk about farming for a living versus farming to make money. You can make all kinds of money and pay a bunch of income tax to prove it and still not have ten cents left to live on. BTDT when I was milking cows.
If you are trying to pay off principal on loans on land,or on equipment that you claimed a big investment credit on or that's depreciated out,those principal payments aren't deductible. You'd better either have a wife with a good career or have her on Social Security disability so she can buy groceries.

You hit the nail on the head rrlund. Pa used to say it is like keeping the horse to haul the horse manure.

When i was a kid my dad milked 20 cows in a tie stall barn, he had no debt and he raised 5 kids on the income from the dairy alone.
It was in the late sixties when the free stall came into swing and there were plenty guys that took the jump to the new design.
We had a farm consultant come to our yard one day to try to talk my dad into modernizing and building a free stall and milking parlor and such.
After my dad had listened to all that the guy had to say which included expanding the herd to at least 60 cows he asked the guy.. OK, if i do all that what you suggest i do,.. can tell me what my[b:604cba1aa6] net[/b:604cba1aa6] income will be about at year end.
After some calculations the guy wrote down a certain figure and my dad looked at it and said,...that ain't any different as to what i make today so why in the world would i go til my neck in the hole and work twice as hard and not make a cent more than i do now?..I think i'll pass,.i rather go fishing.

It's all what you want to do. I don't want to work at the landfill and the railroad does not have enough money to hire me. I have not worked off the farm in 15 years and I kinda like it that way.
Except for a new utility loader tractor I bought last year. All my tractors are over 25 years. Most WAY over.

I think I use older stuff because I don't fall into the same hole that a lot of guys with many years left do. They figure if they still have 30 years to farm they should buy new so they can expand. Why work yourself to death? I'm adding new technologies each year, but I can add those to a newer implement and pull it with the same old iron.

The main tractors that get used in a season here are a 4020, an 8430, a 4440, and a 7800. I hit lots of generations of Deere there. That 8430 is a big Brutus that has a nasty dusty cab and about throws out your shoulder to shift. But, it doesn't owe me much and isn't worth much. It does the disking and cultivating. It also runs the big graIn cart. Why in the world would I spend a ton of money for a new articulated tractor? The others all do their jobs well and have the load placed out so none is overworked. If I had my choice I would spend my day in the 4440. The 7800 is a Cadillac in comparison but I don't like the air conditioner and it doesn't shift as smooth. So, I prefer a tractor from 1980. I can't say I will be using it in 30 years, but I bet I won't be using a 2014 tractor in 30 years. I have a better chance of the 4020 pulling the planter at that point.

I guess I'm not willing to be in that much debit. That's really what it comes down to.

Bingo!! Loved the comment about the BTO in Iowa with lots of money, but admits his wife is on SS Disability or some such handout! And he complains about insurance costs!! Bet he gets a BIG farm subsidy check every year from the Fed.
Brags about everything he has.. And tells us he "helped" his kids buy the place next to his! I know some BTO's like that! Farm 8,000 acres then complain that they are only getting 800 per month in Social Security... Go figure! True son

BTO at farm sale in early 80 s asked me
(in early 20 s at time), how many acres
did I farm? Told him 240 with father.
Told me no way could I make a living
farming. Father overheard this and asked
him how many acres he farmed? 1500 was
the answer. Father told him he must be
pretty poor farmer if it took him that
many acres to make a living. He quit
farming 3 years latter and got job in
town. I'm still farming with some of same
machinery as then. A few more acres but
still small operator. Paid for dirt makes
more money than all that new fancy paint
and tech stuff . Just my opinion. Thanks

I'm not going to knock anyone for having a new tractor, because they are nice. I do know that with all the computer stuff it will give you some trouble down the road. Just run cattle so machinery like this will get me by just fine. The first time my butt sit in the seat of this tractor was when I was seven. Probably driving it when around eleven. Its nice to have all the memories we have been through together.

If the tractors I see on TractorHouse are any indication, then these btos are leasing those big tractors. If something goes wrong then they won't have a big debt hanging over their head. But when I see Equipment Pete on RFD, there's a lot of money out there ready to be spent.

The easiest money to make is the money you don't spend.

I made the mistake about twelve years ago of buying an eleven year old tractor that a BTO had traded in. It was at about 4200 hours. I expected that it would give me a good ten years. Well the problems arose when it became prudent to cut my acreage in half, which no longer really supported that big horse, and then when it got ove 5,000 hours the problems started, and it had to go to a dealer for diagnostics due to all the computer controls. I got only 2/3 what I paid for it after dumping into it about a third of what I paid. I suppose it could have been worse. My advice is to stay away from electronics.

I know a guy thats doing pretty well vegetable farming with 2 IH 140 tractors.
I see farmers pulling hayrakes with 100HP 4WD tractors that probably were close to
100K.Thats crazy.I pull a hayrake with an old David Brown 770 I bought 10 years ago put on a used
injector pump and been raking ever since.Somehow my cows don't seem to mind eating the hay so far.Initial investment
ends up bankrupting many farmers and the mistaken idea that if a farmer doubles their production they double their profits.

Also having several tractors means no hooking and unhooking from implements which can be time consuming.During hay season each implement gets its own tractor
and I have two balers with tractors and two mowers with tractors ready to roll in case one of them breaks down.A broken down
100K$ tractor won't get the job done.

I don't know what the figures are anymore,but they used to say that to double the size of a farming operation took four times the investment.
So if you have four times as much money tied up to achieve twice the gross income,where's the profit?

I like to browse the tractor add mags and see all of the $100k tractors with next to no hours on them. Then drive past the row of brand new $100k+ ones sitting at the JD dealer. Reminds me of somebody buying a new Harley to impress their girlfriend then it goes up for sale.

First off,I'am nobody on here or locally,but I don't get everybodys worry about what someone else is farming with. If you don't have any MONEY in it so what.New equipment or old,100 acres or 3000 acres or how they use their equipment(new or old) on their land.Yes I farm with new equipment,but I also farmed 500-1000A and worked 40Yrs.in a 12Hr.rotating shift job(24/365)to buy land and needed good ac-heated cabbed equipment because that is where I lived unless I was working elsewhere.Yes I suffered and still do sleeping and my family time did greatly but my wife NEVER worked except in her own business I helped her start.We own 5 farms+2002 and newer equipment and DEBT FREE and can do what ever we please when we get up(WITHIN REASON OF COURSE).So it is nobodys business what we do as it is not their money.Sorry if that was a little strong but I am a private person.

Every farm is different and so is there equipment needs, Some farm alone some its a family affair and some have all hired help. From all grain farming to all cattle and everything in between, So this is ware the rub starts on new or used equipment.

Every farmer has a goal in mind for there farm and he or she has to figure out how to get there. Some years are good and some a bust so we all have to figure out how to make money and not go broke and loose it all. Cost per acre is what it's all about. I know guy's that bale 4000 to 12.000 bales of hay a year and you would think the guy baling the most would have new but its just the opposite. The guy baling 4000 bales is selling it as organic and its high dollar hay and can afford the new tractors and equipment he uses. The other guy bought an older NH 575 baler and pulls it with an IH 826 Hydro and wouldn't have it any other way.

Call it Nostalgic or what ever you want, Myself I call it farming with what I can afford and work on. Nothing like having a tractor or other piece of equipment down because of a bad switch in a joy stick. My cousin found out that a simple little mouse can kill a near new JD combine (2 years old) and cost you a lot of money to fix it when the mouse shorted the computer and fried it. But he still kept cutting with the old Gleaner he kept as a back up. It's funny how guys that have lots of new tractors and equipment and still use a Oliver 770 to rake hay and run wagons with auger grain and is the go to tractor for lots of chores. Why? Because it's cheaper to fix and work on. Why ware out a $75.000 tractor when a $2500 tractor will do the same job. I do see a lot of "Keeping up with the Jones" kind of guys who will trade a tractor off because the new model has a better sound system in it or more cup holders!

In the end it's up to each and everyone of us to make the choice of new or old and what it will be used for and what we can afford. Bandit

(quoted from post at 07:45:36 03/25/15) First off,I'am nobody on here or locally,but I don't get everybodys worry about what someone else is farming with. If you don't have any MONEY in it so what.New equipment or old,100 acres or 3000 acres or how they use their equipment(new or old) on their land.Yes I farm with new equipment,but I also farmed 500-1000A and worked 40Yrs.in a 12Hr.rotating shift job(24/365)to buy land and needed good ac-heated cabbed equipment because that is where I lived unless I was working elsewhere.Yes I suffered and still do sleeping and my family time did greatly but my wife NEVER worked except in her own business I helped her start.We own 5 farms+2002 and newer equipment and DEBT FREE and can do what ever we please when we get up(WITHIN REASON OF COURSE).So it is nobodys business what we do as it is not their money.Sorry if that was a little strong but I am a private person.

Click to expand...

Massey, I scanned through and I don't see where anyone mentioned you. As for worrying, I don't see where anyone mentioned that they were worried about anyone either. If mentioning any type or class of people indicates worry then all of the coffee shops and forums in the world would have to shut down. Take a break and go down to your local coffee shop and have a neighborly chat with some friends.

I know no one mention me,but you said it with the coffee shop talk is what it is.I don't say anything bad about how anyone else farms period because that is their business and not mine and this old-new-big-little bashing is just that.No body else"s business other then that person.And no I have never been to the coffee shop or any other loafing place and don't intend to start going now.