Hay Wagon Bed Design

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I lengthened the hay wagon running gear I've got some 3 ft. Should give me a very nice 14 or 16 ft wagon.

Now it's time to design/build a wagon bed.

Been reading a lot of posts regarding wagon design, but have a few questions.

Firstly, my thought was all rough oak. Oak for the beams spanning the front and rear axles/wheels, oak 4x4's perpendicular on top of them and oak planks on top of that making the bed surface - parallel with the length of the wagon.

For whatever reason, I just thought all hay wagons beds were made of oak. I removed the old beams from the wagon I've got, they were 4x8x10ft oak and those things were HEAVY!!! A wagon totally made of oak - I think would be very heavy before any hay was loaded.

In doing some reading, I'm finding some folks are just using treated pine wood vs oak - I guess the thought is lighter and yet durable? What are your thoughts on oak vs treated pine for strength and longevity?

Second thing I've found is - that not every hay wagon uses 4x4 cross pieces - perpendicular to the main beams, etc., construction as I mentioned above. Some pics I see show planks fastened directly to the main beams - perpendicular to it making for the wagon bed surface. Anyone built/using a wagon with this design? My concern is that the perpendicular direction would/could be a tripping hazard if a plank got loose/warped? Also just having the planks cantilevered with no support beneath - any fear of breaking through with a stack of hay on the parimeter or someone walking on it? 1 or 2 inch planks used?

Any tips/advice much appreciated.

Thanks!
Bill

Under edit: My bad - I thought I was posting under Implement Alley section.

All of ours had the deck boards running crosswise. We had oak 4x6x16' for stringers, an oak 4x4 across the front anf back with an oak 2x6 running lengthwise bolted to the front and rear 4x4. The floor was then 1x6 or so boards nailed to the 4x6's and 2x6's. Here is a pic of a 1/2 scale ravk my brother just did that is a close copy.
<image src="http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto17986.png"/>

Planks at right angles to the main beams will sag quickly, even if mad of 2 inch material. It does make a lower bed height.

I build mine from ash. Boards run crosswise. I've got some that are 20+ years old.

We never had one that sagged, but they were either oak or ash boards tho, can't say how pine would hold up.

Rough sawn oak will crack and rot very quickly if it is left to the elements. If I were to build another haywagon, I would use steel channel for the gunnels (parallel with gear) and wolmanized 2x6 on their sides on 2' centers for crossmembers (perpendicular to gear) and I would use wolmanized 2x6 for decking (parallel to gear).

Keeping them CLEAN and out of the weather is just as important as the materials you make the wagon from.

I've never understood the desire to build hay wagons out of wood when better materials exist. A 4"x10" I-Beam for main stringers crossed with 3x1/4" channel will be more effective at half the weight. Then deck it with deck plate, expanded mesh or boards if you wish. I would never even give consideration to building a wagon deck from wood. You've got a ton more weight than you need that does you no good and in 10 years it'll be rotten anyway.
Steel lasts a long time.

Rod

This is the last one I built about 10 years ago.




It's 16' long and 8' wide. I used white oak for the main runners 5"x8" and used oak for the cross pieces 3"x4". All rough sawn. The floor is poplar 1 1/4" rough sawn lumber random width boards. Side rub rails are also white oak 2"x4" to make a lip so the bales stay on better on hill sides. We also do small square bales and this one has hauled 170 at a time. The reason we use poplar for the floor is because it is not slippery like oak and pine are.

I oiled it before using it, set it out in the sun so it soaked it up very well, done this one time.

I also have 3 other wagons built the same way and have had them for over 20 years, with beds on them that my dad and brother built before I got them. Keep them in a shed and out of the rain and they will last almost a life time.

southern yellow pine is stronger than oak and much more resistant to rotting.

all the wagons we use have boards running across - as for worrying about one warping and causing a tripping hazard... I guess my answer would be simply that they don't.

I've never seen that situation.

If a board DID warp that badly, we'd just replace it. That'd be pretty cheap an easy in the crosswise position.

For the weight concern - that depends.... I wouldn't worry too much if you've got enough tractor to pull it. But if you've ever got to move it around by hand (unloaded of course) over a few ruts, at that moment you'll certainly regret an extra heavy wood choice.

I've done my 3 wagons with pressure treated lumber. I used a pair of 2x12 (I believe they were) 16 ft long on each side for bed pieces, 4x4 cross pieces and 2x6's for the deck. Only problem is until the deck is worn a bit the boards can be slippery.

Material is what ever you have on hand or willing to pay for. The boards the long way get smooth quick. Pulling bales along the deck is like sanding. Like woodworking on cabinets, working with grain is easier. I like going boards going across better, for this reason. Also the cracks give more traction instead of sliding with the groves during quick stop.
<image src="http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto17994.jpg"/>
This is a few of ours. Have boards both ways. The middle one we just made with scrap wood. Main runners(4pieces3x5ish) are something my brother pulled out of dumpster at roofing co he works for, the deck is 2by hemlock salvaged from a building we got to clean up for firewood. Note the stability rails on top of the ones that deck goes across(middle and right in pic). I have gone through both ways when rotten enough

<image src="http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto17995.jpg"/>
Had to lift the deck up some to clear wheels on this one, so a quick shim with a piece from a skid

<image src="http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto17996.jpg"/>

Simple bracket for holding back rack.

If you want anymore Pics I can try and meet your needs.

All of our wagons have lengthwise beams, 4x4 trusses across and lengthwise 1" roughsawn on the deck. Beams and trusses are whatever you can buy but I like treated down under. Our decks are Ash and that is because I have a woodlot full of dead Ash and can haul it to the mill and have it made or trade it for planks. Crankcase oil is used to help waterproof the top which is left in the sun until this is well soaked in. Wagons are kept clean and undercover. Anything will rot, even steel, if you leave it out in the weather full of rotting vegetation. I make money with my equipment. I lose money if I don't take care of it.

If your wagon are going to sit outside
Use white oak stringers or White ash.
Red oak won't last very long,,,

Factory built were toung and grove southern yellow pine not treated and plained to 3/4" thickness and a lot of then used 2 x 4 cross members. Remember they were for both hay and small grain-ear corn. Not sure what the sills were, my books might tell. A lot of homemade beds were cotton wood and as long as it did not touch the ground it did not rot. and was the lightest weight wood avaible with the strength needed. Don't know how it would be now with the oak but years ago if the bed was made of that you could not give the wagon away due to the weight and the heavy bedds were called horse killers as it would take 4 head to pull the wagon instead of 2 on a lighter bed just due to the weight. The factory built with the floor crosswise used 1 1/2" material and they had a steel edging along the sides to give strength to the outer ends of the crosswise boards. You should have about 6" of bed in front of front wheels and 18-24" behind the rear wheels depending on length of bed. I am talking factory built beds from 1960 and earlier and I am a 1943 model.

I would make it 15',17'or 18' that extra foot is the greatest then when your finishing a load you have some were to stand. It also helps when you unload.

Well it all depends on how heavy your going to load the wagon. We stacked the bales and would put 200 bales on a 18 foot wagon. I floored mine with cross members and boards long ways. I always used white oak and made the outside board an inch thicker than the middle boards.

My brother made his wagons with 3 2x12 nailed together with 2x10s cross the rails. With much more than 150 bales his wagon floors would bow out with the load. He finally put an angle iron rail down each side with braces going to the main rails that stopped them form bowing.

When loading the wagons I liked the long ways boarded wagons better. You could slide a bale along the floor with a hay hook and not have to carry it all the way back on the wagon. The cross floored wagons would catch when you tried to drag the bales back the wagon floor.

I have wagons that are built out of red oak. They are 10' wide and 16' long kicker wagons. I keep the floors blown off with a leaf blower and I oil them twice a year. I don't have a shed to put them in. Hmm according to everyone else these wagons should be a pile of dust by now. I still use them and they are fine. My sons and I built them in 1997.

I also have a kicker wagon that I built out of treated lumber. Same thing, blow off with a leaf blower and oil twice a year. Use whatever is available and works for you. Years ago I even had one made out of hemlock.

I have seen the ones with 2x6's going perpendicular to the stringers. Some of the new metal wagons use this type base. I also have seen them bow even after a while they seem to stay bowed empty.

Over the years I have built four 8' X 16' hay racks on the same design as my 1/2 scale hay rack. I built this six years ago to use with my miniature horses.

Mine were all built on the cheap. Running gears were old Ford or Chevy axles. I used 4x6 treated stringers and 2x4 cross pieces on 2' centers. Then 5/4 treated deck boards lengthwise. A big contributor to long life is keeping the deck free of chaff, etc. if the wagon sets out. Also a quick spray with "water-seal" once a year helps. Mine all were in perfect condition after 15 years. Size-wise, they were 7-1/2' x 15', which worked well for me. We usually loaded about 100-105 bales, which would go into a 10' high doorway.

One feature I like on a hay wagon is a toe kick boars. Right along the front. I don't see that on these.

Depends on how you load them, and kinda personal preference - but I feel anytime your'e loading at the front of the wagon and rolling - having that little lip along the front goes a long way to making it at least feel safer. Something to catch against if your foot slips forwards.

Mine have 4x8 hemlock beams, with 5/4 x6 oak cross members and 5/4 PT deck. I learned from here, before putting deck on PUT FLASHING OVER TOPS OF CROSS MEMBERS

The wagons with the deck boards running width-wise never impressed me. EZ-Trail wagons are like that, and once they get some age on them they sag.

Sure you can make them not sag, IF you do this, IF you do that, IF you do the other thing, but manufacturers don't do any of it, to save money.

On the other hand, a wagon built with the extra layer of 4x4s and the deck boards running lengthwise is NATURALLY strong and NATURALLY won't sag. No special effort required.