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newbie tractor owner - operation on steep grade

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
Hi all - I recently purchased a 1940 Farmall A. In my wanderings around the web looking for info. I'm seeing more and more about how easy it is for these old tractors to flip and tip. Part of my property (and the reason I bought this tractor) is on a mildly steep grade (say 20-40 degree slope)and it needs to be bush hogged. Should I not use this tractor for this purpose? Not being experienced can only make this a bigger problem and I don't want to get hurt. Should I be using a garden tractor with a lower footprint of lower center of gravity? Perhaps I have purchased the wrong tractor for my uses.

I'm open to your opinions. I haven't purchased the bush hog yet and won't be doing so until the spring. Or I may just unload this piece and put it towards a newer tractor. Let the discussion begin, and I do appreciate it.

-shortyedwards
 
For that steep I'd want a low center of gravity (utility type tractor) with a ROPS and a seat belt.
 
To be honest, I'm not the least bit familiar with that model, but it would appear to have a higher center of gravity and if running on hills sideways, no roll over protection structure, seat with a belt, this could be very unsafe and have fatal consequences. You may be able to run up and down the slope, but you had best have good brakes, even then slippery cut and wet vegetation, you can easily slide.

This is why I like old ford and similar size and configuration utility tractors, ideally an LCG like what ford offered, and or anything similar, would be your best bet, this is nothing to fool with, I've worked on steep hills a good part of the time I've lived here, from childhood and for many years in adulthood, its not something to take lightly, my old ford 850 handles them fine, but could be turned over, one good chuck hole, low spot in tall weeds, a hidden stump or say a broken spindle or something you never saw coming, on a tractor with not so low a center of gravity, could be all it takes, then you are pinned, suffocated, possibly burned alive or if you get bumped off and into that rotary cutter, well you see where this is leading.
 
Ah ... this is exactly what I suspected. So, its not an unjustified fear, probably need to listen to my gut and my gut (and you) tell me to get a different tractor.

Thanks for your opinions and please keep them coming.
 
A 20 to 40 degree slope is way too steep for ANY tractor, and NO, it does not need to be bush hogged. Just leave the brush growing as it is to prevent soil erosion.
 
If the grade is really that steep, I wouldn't try to run [u:72b3179fca]any[/u:72b3179fca] tractor on it.
On a milder slope you might get away with using a lower utility style tractor, but in any case, don't try to turn around on the slope!

Myron .
 
Thats the worst case scenario, it depends on the actual conditions, some tractors are ok to a certain point, and most will say its better with an experienced operator, but even then, the most experienced will and can have a problem when something unforseen happens, or they get complacent over years, so I find its best to err on the side of safety, especially if new at it. A man just over the hill from our land here, got bumped off a 640 ford with a rotary mower on, he was run over, then went through the mower, I have not posted the article in a long time.

When I was a kid, our ford had the S-O-S transmission fail, as a friend of dads with good intentions serviced the trans and put the wrong fluid in, really made me mad, as I mostly ran the tractor. We had to borrow a friends, a 2010 narrow front, and let me tell you, places I went with that ford, that I went with that 2010 were frightening, and while not being a newbie, I was to that style of tractor, I had no business being on it, not knowing I really should not have been in places that were no problem before, it never seemed like I came close to tipping over, but the feeling you get on that higher up tractor, is no comparison to the lower '64 4000 ford. My 850 ford with a wagner loader, loaded tires, with a 6' rotary mower feels safe on the same ground, I use a thick/heavy cast iron weight from an old ford aircraft tug in the winter, its below the axle line, you would have to go to something really steep or someplace where no tractor belongs to tip it over. I can watch the flex of the tire and see if one side gets light, its not very often.

Depending on the conditions of what you maintain, you may be looking at the wrong piece of equipment. Someone should post an image of a 2110 ford or similar, LCG tractor, that is as about as good as it gets for tractors and slopes.
 
Well, the meadow needs to be cut at least once a year in order to keep the brush manageable.

I have mowed this field with my Cub Zero Turn mower ... slowly. Being low to the ground I haven't felt unsteady. Maybe I should post a pic of the landscape.
 
Right, me too. I jumped on this Farmall tractor as it was in beautiful condition and was totally restored. Financially I just can't get the tractor I want at this point. Perhaps I jumped too fast.
 
I may have overstated the grade, but nonetheless, it is enough that I'm not comfortable with it. This is very sobering talk and frankly I'm glad for it; this is a hobby farm and I don't want to get hurt or die doing my hobby. Thanks again!
 
I have heard tales of people using the smaller Cub models in west virginia on the steep hills. They made spacers to get the rear wheels out really wide and they also modified the engine oil pump pick up tube.
 
Could you stand in a level place and take a picture of the sloop? That steep of a grade would be hard to walk up and down. Like the steep banks along the interstate road ditches.
 
Get a small crawler, JD 40C or similar with a PTO and wide track gauge. It will not tip on any normal hill that a cow can navigate. Wide front end tractors are more stable than tricycle front. Wide setting of rear wheels in the range of 70 to 80 inches plus chloride or water in the tires will lower the center of gravity. Also, ALWAYS INSTALL ROLLOVER BARS and seat belts on any tractor working on hills. Or maybe just get some sheep or goats and let them clean up the brush and forget about mowing it. Some things just aren't worth the risk or cost,
 
Despite all the warnings from the Flatlanders that have never seen a real hill in person most any slope can be handled if due caution and common sense is applied especially if someone else has been cutting it.But a Farmall A is about the last tractor I'd try to do some serious bushhogging with for sure since its offset its a cultivating tractor its narrow on one side and it has a high center of gravity.An old WD45 Allis Chalmers would be a good choice.I have a David Brown 770 thats great on steep land also.
 
The title of your post, "newbie tractor owner", scares me. Is there an old timer in your neighborhood who'll take you under his wing? There's just so many things you need to know and watch for when operating on steep slopes. The best advice for a newbie tractor owner is "stay on the level ground until you're no longer a newbie". This is definitely something that you want to ease into carefully. I commend you for recognizing that there could be a problem.
 
Just today I helped set a Farmall 140 back on
it"s wheels, this is from a man who has been on
tractors his whole life. But because he got
away with mowing a steap hill side befor he
continured to so, until last nite... Didn"t get
hurt too bad, mostly his pride & from what I
seen of the hillside he used VERY POOR
JUDGEMENT. Was a 140 with a 5" belly mower..
 
On steep slopes always try to mow up and down the slope. If it feels uneasy in the seat I'd leave it. Better safe than sorry.
 
The big thing is how you go about doing any thing on a hill. You NEVER drive along it but can drive up and down it as long as there is a place at the top to turn around on flat ground. This picture is what happens if you drive along the hill side and even a low to the ground tractor can and will get in trouble. This guy was told not to drive along the hill only go up and down and he did not listen. If it was not for the tree he would have rolled it. The tractor is a 1951 8N ford with ORC on the PTO
a124929.jpg

a124930.jpg
 
I have used those tractors for over fifty years. No I have never felt safe on that tractor on hillsides or uneven ground, even a narrow front is more stable. You should stick with a low center of gravity tractor with good brakes and rollbar.
 
Old, what hill are you talking about? There's hardly any hill in that pic. Looks like someone hung the tractor on a tree to me.

A Farmall A isn't the best tractor to bush hog with in the first place. I don't think it will just roll over for no reason anymore than a tricycle type will just roll over. There's a lot of rural legend in these tales of tractors flipping on the slightest hill. Yes, a low slung utility tractor "feels" more stable than a larger tractor where the seat is higher, but I assure your placement on the tractor is mostly the cause of that feel. Take a little 8n and put the seat 4 foot up in the air and it'll feel plenty "tippy".

I don't have an answer for you Shorty. I started out bush hogging on a Case VAC tricycle in the Central Adirondacks on side hills that would be great toboggan runs. You do what you have to to get the job done.
 
OK before this gets too far out there, I posted a study from a university a couple of years ago on here.

1. Tricycle tractors in certain circumstances are in fact more likely to tip. Most often when going down hill.

2. The lower the balance point is on a tractor (from the front or rear) the lower center of gravity. My 8N has a lower center of gravity than my wide front Farmall M or my 1206 Farmall wide front. It's call physics. A larger utility like the Ford 4000 still has a lower center of gravity than most taller tractors.

3. The new guy is justified in asking these question and he sounds like a guy who wants to live. This guy need facts, not opinions.

4. Most of the tractor roll overs that I hear about are because someone didn't pay attention to the physics of it and just had to get the job done or just didn't know what they were doing in the first place. You can roll just about any machine. I've seen tanks (M60s and M1A1s) upside down on terrain that didn't look too bad.

5. Erring on the side of caution, without seeing the terrain, if you are asking these question that hill most likely too step for anything except a crawler. The advice on the goats may be about the cheapest and best suggestion yet.

Welcome to YT.

Rick
 
First, you need to understand the series of events leading to a rollover. Most tractors can handle a pretty steep sidehill as long as it's a hard, dry surface with good traction. Problems occur when the ground is soft or slippery. Soft ground can cause rollovers on fairly gentle slopes. But the real hazard is when a tractor slides sideways down a slope. Sooner or later it will come to a stop, and when it does it's likely to roll.

There are things you can due to improve the stability of a tractor. The obvious first step is to ballast the tires, front and rear. Choice of implement has an affect, too; a brushhog is a fairly safe implement, since it tends to lower the center of gravity of the tractor.
 
Nothing I can say that hasn't already been said. Personal opinion, but you probably should not be on that tractor. Look for a Ford or Massey Ferguson and set the wheels out wide. An old friend once told me about new operators that the best advice he could give them was, "If ya don't know about Lever A, leave her B". Until you know what you're doing, you may want to leave her be.....
 
I have a Ford 6610 utility with wheel weights and loader that I use for this. It has ROPS and seat belt. I put the bucket down as low as I can and take it real easy.
 
A Farmall "A" tractor is not the tractor you want for mowing with for many reasons. Here are the top ones:

1) It is an offset tractor built for cultivating crops one row at a time. I have seen them upset on level ground when the left tire would fall into a plow furrow. You see a lot of them with the wheel weights on the right side and the right tire loaded. This was to stabilize the tractor more. Still not a good tractor for mowing on any kind of slope.

2) The PTO is not live. So it would not work the best on a rotary mower (bush hog). Would need a over running clutch to even try doing it.

3) The tractor is only rated at 16 PTO Horse power. So it would be working hard with even a five foot rotary cutter. Four footer would be more like it. Then you would need the tires out wider than the cutter.

4) These tractors did not have a three point hitch. Does it even have the hydraulic lift on it??? The early ones did not. The cultivators just where manual lift. Then the next step was a vacuum lift assist. So you may not even have any lift on it. If you do it may not lift a rotary mower. Even with a lift on it you will need an after market three point hitch for hooking to a rear mounted rotary cutter. Those after market hitches really just "kind-of" work. You can find belly mounted mowers for the Farmall "A" but they really where made more for mowing grass not rough stuff like small trees and brush.

Well there are four reason not to use the Farmall "A" to bush hog with.

Also the market for these little tractors has dropped like a rock. The areas that used to use them for tobacco has flooded the market with them CHEAP since the government bought out the tobacco bases. The contracts guys are not going to cultivate one row at a time. I have seen IH 140 (Newer "A") not bring $1500. This is in good shape. Just not a market for them.

So you kind of jumped the gun with buying the Farmall "A". Hope you did not pay much for it. $1000-1500 would be market even with good/new paint and all.
 
What I never could figure out about those pictures is why the idiot has a tractor and mower out in terrain like that in the first place. There is absolutely nothing out there to mow.
 
Look around for a Ford 231. It's an LCG (low center of gravity) tractor. Fill the rear tires with fluid and it'll stick to the side hills like a spider to a wall.

264773.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 21:53:02 08/12/13) What I never could figure out about those pictures is why the idiot has a tractor and mower out in terrain like that in the first place. There is absolutely nothing out there to mow.
Click to expand...

I have wondered that myself every time those pictures have come up. You can see by the way those two girls are standing that it is nearly level ground.
 
i mow some slopes but not more than about 20 degrees with a cub, ofset tractor like your A but smaller and less hp, first you need to understand your tractor was designed to cultivate row crops in a flat or gently rolling field it was not designed to be a crawler or hill tractor, that being said you can do MILD hills with it, by always keeping the engine on the uphill side, place it on the dowhill side and it will roll if you even think about it, then you need a center mounted belly mower that helps keep the weight in the center between the axles on the tractor, if it were me id see about trading the A for a ford hundred series or even a thousand series, there low slung and among the most stable of the farm tractors,you'll have more hp and live pto, a ford N will do it and is cheaper , but in this application would take a very experienced operator to make it work.stick with the newer fords, its still no crawler tractor and should not be operated on steep sidehills but you can back up them with a brush hog you'll loose traction before you get in trouble, do not climb up them nose first until you get very familier with the tractor and accumulate a lot of seat time, climbing a hill nose first on a farm tractor can easily cause the tractor to climb its ring gear the result is the tractor will backflip and the results are nearly always fatal to the operator
 
(quoted from post at 18:56:10 08/12/13) OK before this gets too far out there, I posted a study from a university a couple of years ago on here.

1. Tricycle tractors in certain circumstances are in fact more likely to tip. Most often when going down hill.
Click to expand...

Yes, and there are studies showing that under certain circumstances a tricycle is less likely to tip than a conventional. It's the old 3 legged stool vs 4 legged stool thing. Physicis they call it. Either way, operator error is the main cause of all accidents. The plain fact is you won't automatically die using a tricycle tractor, buzzsaw or stickler wood splitter despite all the rural legend that says it's a sure thing!
 
Well, I did overpay a little but not too bad. I'll likely lose a few hundred, provided I can sell it locally. Live and learn. The main thing is the live part.

Based on what i've read here I am going to move on and get something more suited to my situation.
 
Many many thanks for all of your input! I'm floored by the responses and the near unanimous decision on my questions. So ... I will try to sell this Farmall and look for a better solution. You'll likely see it in the classified section soon. Hopefully, it will suit someone else better than myself. Thanks again!
 
College is not the only place where you pay for an education. LOL Just be glad it may only cost you a few hundred. I have paid much more "tuition" before on deals.

Tractors that would be better suited for you use would be the Ford 600-800 series or the 01 series. The Ferguson 35 or 135. Oliver 55 or 550. There are a few that would work for you. They all would have a wide front end and the correct equipped Ford would have live PTO. Watch and you can usually find a usable one for under $2000-2500.
 
Simplest and safest way is to just put up some electric fence and put some cattle and maybe a few goats or sheep on it. No worry about getting killed or injured and you might be able to make a few bucks or at least have a full freezer. Why risk keeping it mowed when the critters will do it for you and they do not need rops or seat belts to operate. Just my opinion.
good luck








(quoted from post at 19:40:15 08/12/13) Hi all - I recently purchased a 1940 Farmall A. In my wanderings around the web looking for info. I'm seeing more and more about how easy it is for these old tractors to flip and tip. Part of my property (and the reason I bought this tractor) is on a mildly steep grade (say 20-40 degree slope)and it needs to be bush hogged. Should I not use this tractor for this purpose? Not being experienced can only make this a bigger problem and I don't want to get hurt. Should I be using a garden tractor with a lower footprint of lower center of gravity? Perhaps I have purchased the wrong tractor for my uses.

I'm open to your opinions. I haven't purchased the bush hog yet and won't be doing so until the spring. Or I may just unload this piece and put it towards a newer tractor. Let the discussion begin, and I do appreciate it.

-shortyedwards
Click to expand...
 
(quoted from post at 22:19:42 08/12/13) Build a fence around the meadow and buy some goats.
Click to expand...

Seriously, that is good advice. Had a friend that cleared many acres doing this with angora goats, and she got some nice fiber off of them to boot.
 
I think you must be confusing degrees with % slope. 20 degrees is 36% or 1:2.75; 40 degrees is almost 1:1 and you say a" mildly steep" I think 20 degrees has to be about the most slope anyone should be on with tractor. Unless like one said if you pack up and come stright down. Get a long 2x4 a level and a tape and see what kind of slope you really have. Your center of gravity on your tractor will be somewhere between you PTO shaft and your seat. Once that center of gravity get to the out side tire she is over and there is nothing you can do but go over with her. Good luck.

(quoted from post at 10:40:15 08/12/13) Hi all - I recently purchased a 1940 Farmall A. In my wanderings around the web looking for info. I'm seeing more and more about how easy it is for these old tractors to flip and tip. Part of my property (and the reason I bought this tractor) is on a mildly steep grade (say 20-40 degree slope)and it needs to be bush hogged. Should I not use this tractor for this purpose? Not being experienced can only make this a bigger problem and I don't want to get hurt. Should I be using a garden tractor with a lower footprint of lower center of gravity? Perhaps I have purchased the wrong tractor for my uses.

I'm open to your opinions. I haven't purchased the bush hog yet and won't be doing so until the spring. Or I may just unload this piece and put it towards a newer tractor. Let the discussion begin, and I do appreciate it.

-shortyedwards
Click to expand...
 
You could hire someone or get some quotes on cutting it the first time around. Might get some good advice at the same time. Beats being maimed or killed.
 
(quoted from post at 12:34:28 03/08/15) I think you must be confusing degrees with % slope. 20 degrees is 36% or 1:2.75; 40 degrees is almost 1:1 and you say a" mildly steep" I think 20 degrees has to be about the most slope anyone should be on with tractor. Unless like one said if you back up and come straight down. Get a long 2x4 a level and a tape and see what kind of slope you really have. Your center of gravity on your tractor will be somewhere between you PTO shaft and your seat. Once that center of gravity get to the out side tire she is over and there is nothing you can do but go over with her. be careful in 4 wheel drive it can get you into more trouble. loosing traction can save your butt sometime. Good luck. I have a picture showing the cg put I don't know how to post it.

(quoted from post at 10:40:15 08/12/13) Hi all - I recently purchased a 1940 Farmall A. In my wanderings around the web looking for info. I'm seeing more and more about how easy it is for these old tractors to flip and tip. Part of my property (and the reason I bought this tractor) is on a mildly steep grade (say 20-40 degree slope)and it needs to be bush hogged. Should I not use this tractor for this purpose? Not being experienced can only make this a bigger problem and I don't want to get hurt. Should I be using a garden tractor with a lower footprint of lower center of gravity? Perhaps I have purchased the wrong tractor for my uses.

I'm open to your opinions. I haven't purchased the bush hog yet and won't be doing so until the spring. Or I may just unload this piece and put it towards a newer tractor. Let the discussion begin, and I do appreciate it.

-shortyedwards
Click to expand...
/quote]
Click to expand...
 
hope this works to explain CG.

http://extension.psu.edu/business/ag-safety/vehicles-and-machinery/tractor-safety/e34
 
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