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'87 F150 not running...I'm stumped

N

NCWayne

Well-known Member
A couple of weeks back I was headed home when my truck just died about 4 miles out. It's an '87 F150 with the 4.9 (300 straight six). Given that it just shut off, no stutter, just running and then dead, my first thought was a bad alternator, thus a dead battery. I've has that happen before on the '88 F150 I used to have, so I knew the symptoms.

Thankfully I was able to coast down in front of a buddy's house, so I got a ride home and got another battery. Still no luck, she'll crank over, but still won't start. So, I trailered it home, and just got around to looking at it again today.

My next thought was not getting fire, so I checked that. It had a weak spark, but I did have fire.

So, on to fuel. I did as the manual suggested and jumpered the diagnostic connector and made the pumps run all the time so I could hear them. Both of the two low pressure, in tank pumps (dual tank with the pressure actuated selector valve)and the one, high pressure pump, run like they should. Both of the LP pumps are less than a year old, so I didn't foresee any problem with them, and had actually hoped the HP pump was bad, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Checked the fuel pump solenoid, and it works. Even bypassed it and trued it, and still no start. Too I checked the inertia switch and insured it hadn't tripped, and was passing current through, and it was good. I knew the pumps were working, so I didn't foresee any problem with it, but checked it anyways, because nothing else had given any positive results.

I haven't been able to check fuel pressure at the fuel rail yet, but I did initiate the self diagnostic on the fuel system, and didn't get any codes.

Both tanks have at least a half a tank, and the gas in each came from different stations. In other words I don't think it's a water/contamination problem. I also went so far as to add about two gallons to the front tank just to make sure that there wasn't an issue with the sending unit (which were replaced when the pumps were, and have always been accurate since).

Given that it had a weak spark I checked the cap and rotor button. Both had some corrosion, and there was some wear on the electrode in the center of the cap, so I replaced them. I also replaced the ignition control module as I know that can cause issues if it dies.

I'm now sitting here with everything I know to check, or have a tool to check, checked, other than the fuel pressure. I'll probably get a guage and do that tomorrow.

Even if I have fuel pressure, is there any way to check to see if the injectors are getting a signal to fire?

I know many of you guys are more up on the automotive side of things than I am. I'm hoping someone has run into this problem before, and might have some idea of what I am missing, and need to look at.

Thanks for any advice or suggestions.
 
unplug injector connector , one terminal should be hot with key on.hook light across both terminals should blink when cranking. If not , unplug throttle position sensor and try again. I have seen a few of those older fords have the wiring going into PCM loose the insulation . Grounded injectors and flood engine
 
I got to the point you are at on my 89 and replaced the coil with a known good one off of my Bronco and it started right up.
 
Hi ncwayne: I think its called a 'noid light' plugs on injector harness connector & flashes if firing. I have a set of different ones somewhere.
 
Make sure the small ground wire with the
connector is well ground. I'm not saying
this is only problem possible. But I didn't
read that in your search. This wire is a
ECC IV processor ground. Also check ECC
IV power relay under the dash.....
 

small primary wire going to coil broke inside insulation and would cut off when every it wanted.. then run fine a day later. Like to never found it as it worked perfectly when it ran. Took about 5 coils, and 6 ignition modules till I finally got a hard fail... Enough to drive a guy to drink...
 
Wayne,does that have the module on the left inside fender wall-has 2 harness connectors on it?Those were notorious for failing-fast check was to try another one-sometimes you could wapp it with your fist or rubber mallet and truck would start.Mark
 
I had a 91 with same motor and I had an ignition module on the side of the distributor crap itself and would not restart. Also could be pick-up coil inside distributor. Ignition module can be removed and checked at Autozone or Oreilleys. Pick-up coil needs distributor removed and gear pressed off to change.
 
NCWayne, I had a crazy thing happen with my 87 F150 with the 300 6. I had taken it to a garage and mechanic was checking wiring harness and pulling his hair out. I had installed new module on distributor and new pump in the tank and was going broke fast. Ended up the positive molded end on the battery cable was corroded inside and looked fine on the outside. It allowed some current to pass but not enough to run fuel pump. Just my experience and cost me a lot of money I didn't have. Greg
 
My 88 died on me 2x, both times was the ignition module. Same symptoms you describe.

Donovan from Wisconsin
 
My guess is the pin has sheared on the end of the distributor shaft and the gear is grabbing and slipping.
This is why you are still showing some spark but not starting. Too far out of time.
Come across this problem on a few ford engines like yours over the years.
 
Wayne, after reading all the comments, (and all are good), the suggestions for checking wiring at certain points are good, but before I finished reading your post, I was thinking, TFI module, or ignition control module that attaches to the distributor. I was driving an 86 F150 4.9, going to lunch one day and it just quit about a mile from work. Had it hauled in and one of the techs checked it and that was the problem. About three years ago I bought another 86 with 5.0 FI. Had it less than two weeks and it quit. After it sat for about half an hour, I could crank it and it would hit once in a while, but not run. Hauled it home and called my favorite tech at the dealership where I used to work. He said, "Sounds like the ignition module." (This was on a weekend). Then he said, "Come by work some day, I think I have a used unit in my tool box that I will give you." So I did, and I am still running it. The one that was on it was made in the "land of almost right" as they say. I am still running it. You say you have a weak spark, but it could still be the module. This tech told me that if he suspects the ignition module,when he tests drives one he carries a can of carburetor or brae cleaner with him and if it quits, he will spray it down with the cleaner. The fast evaporating cleaner will cool the module enough to fire again in most instances. BTW, they cost a bit more, but I highly recommend a Motorcraft unit.
 
Wellllllll it is a Fix Or Repair Daily vehicle. LOL or Found On Road Dead

I will second or third the ignition control module. I have had several go out on vehicles of that age. They all where harder to figure out too.

One car took us a year to figure it out as it would just not start every now and then. By the time I would get there the car would start. The wife was getting afraid to go anywhere in it. That was a 1990 Olds 98.
 
Correction: I have not yet figured how to edit a comment, so I will do it this way. When I said the unit on my truck was made in the land of almost right, then it says I am still running it. I don;t know how that got in there, but I trashed that unit, and am running the used Motorcraft unit.
 
Ford's design requirements for the electronic module was that they are supposed to fail in less than 48,000 miles, which is how Motorola supplied them to Ford. Ford's back-up provider was a company in Japan that refused to design their module that way. If you can find a module that was made in Japan, it will last for the life of the truck.
 
I had a 300 six that kept shearing the pin in the distributor drive shaft three times before I sold it. It would just die on the road , had fire but not at the right time. Might want to check it. I had to wash all the pieces out after fishing with a magnet. Good Luck.
Roger
 
Thanks for the replies thus far. For those that are suggesting the ignition control module on the distributor, I appreciate the suggestion, but check the end of the eighth paragraph....It's a great idea, but I replaced it tonight, along with the cap and rotor button, due to what I considered a weak spark. The spark does look better now, but it still won't run.

Guess I'll have to check the fuel pressure, and the other ideas the first chance I get, and go from there.
 
Pick up coil in the distributor, sheared drive pin on the distributor, also check the ground on the right fender under the hood. I think that is the computer ground. And give us an update when problem is found. All good points from everyone.
 
(quoted from post at 05:13:36 03/08/15) Pick up coil in the distributor, sheared drive pin on the distributor, also check the ground on the right fender under the hood. I think that is the computer ground. And give us an update when problem is found. All good points from everyone.
Click to expand...

Fiber timing gear. Does the distributor turn while cranking? Does this year have the low oil pressure cut-off circuit? More questions than answers,sorry.
 
BALONEY!!!

I worked in Ford dealerships for over 20 years, and there was no such design requirement. Had there been, we would have never been able to keep up with the no-starts that would have been towed in.
 
Wayne:

You should have a HOT, BLUE spark that will jump half an inch or more. If you do not, then your problem is in the ignition. I have seen failures in the coil and ignition pickup in the distributor.

Technically, the pickup in the distributor is called a PIP sensor. Early ones were housed in a black rubber compound that deteriorated over time. They were later replaced with a light tan colored one. Also, check the resistance of the coil primary. If it is out of range, it will cause a no-spark or weak spark condition.

While we are at it, don't forget that there are other things that will make an engine refuse to start besides spark. Compression and fuel are the big ones. Spark needs to be at the right time, compression will tell you if the timing chain or gears have failed.

The short answer is that there is no short answer. <grin>.
 
My guess would be a sheared pin on the distributor gear. Had and old Ford that would do that exact thing every once in a while. Took me a little while to figure it out the first time.
 
My guess, and it is strictly a guess, is the ignition module. I had a 87 Taurus and 87 F150 that both would do as you describe. It was bad enough that I kept an extra in the glove box. The Taurus had a specific temp range that it was worse.

Scratch that, I just reread your post and you have already covered that.
 
Confirm spark with a spark checker... It does not lie and takes the guess out of it...

Confirm fuel pressure with a gauge... If no gauge you can shadtree it with a tire pressure gauge are a R12 refrigerant gauge the test port is 3/16 the same as a tire stem :wink:
Pumps can run but not build sufficient pressure...

A fuel pressure gauge would be the best choice... The easiest things to check are right in front of you they must be dead nuts are you will chase your tail forever...

In this post is a pix of a spark checker with instructions... Weak spark will and has beat the best wrench week end internet wanna be are a pro...

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1170719&amp;highlight=spark

I still don't understand why you put a battery in it was it DEAD... I am trying to figger out what the battery issue has to do with it...

Battery cable issues are a P.I.T.A. so much a pain I have had to tool up and stock up on repair parts just to cover those issues..

On yer Ford truck the main ground for the EEC system is grounded right at the negative battery terminal with a separate lead that is inserted to the crimp battery terminal... It will leave it and go into a connector, at the crimp and connector are possible issues...

For the record when I replace a ignition module its gets a coil and a pick up... A failing coil will take out the module...

Checking injector pulse you can use a 12V test light and jump across the injector connector... Rock the connector side to side it should release you can get to one maybe two, one is all that you need to confirm...

On your system you either luv'em are hate'em why because there is NO DATA menu... I luv'em because it forces you to do hands on rock solid test that can be done in a timely manner...
Timely manner being throw the manual away its full of useless test that lead you astray using a DAMM OHM meter...
 
I changed the battery first because I had an '88 that flat out died when the alternator went out, and wasn't keeping the battery charged. When the battery voltage dropped low enough, the truck died, just like it did this time. That time I hit the auto parts house in the parking lot of the strip mall I had coasted into, and bought a new battery. That gave me enough juice to get the truck started, and drive it home, for a lot less money than having to call a tow truck. In this instance, given that it did the same thing, and that I had no way to test anything on the side of the road, but was only 4 miles from home, and had a ride to get a battery from the house, I tried that first thing. Too, given that the battery was well over 6 years old I thought it prudent to put a new one in it anyways.

The spark checker I've got is an old one. It's a disc of non conductive material with two studs in it, and a clip on the other side to ground it. Basically it allows you to adjust the gap between the points on the studs and see what you've got. With the new ignition module, cap, and rotor button I've got a good, blue spark jumping nearly 1/4 inch, but it still won't start.

Thus far the only thing I haven't been able to check yet, that I know of, is the fuel pressure because I don't have a guage setup with the Schrader tap. The idea of using a tire guage sounds like it would work, but I'm just going get the right tool for the job as I might need it again at some point in time.

As far as all of the tests using an ohm meter, I agree. I like to work on stuff that makes me think, but when it comes to all of this electronic BS, I get my fill of it working on other peoples equipment....but I absolutely hate doing it on my own stuff......but at least on other peoples stuff I;m getting paid to do it, not having to pay for the over priced parts needed to repair the unnecessary electronic controls.

In other words for my own vehicles, I prefer the older stuff where the problem is going to be electrical or mechanical, but not 'electronic'. I've already made up my mind, when I get this beast fixed I'm going to sell both it and the '88 Camaro that rarely gets driven, and buy myself an older dually with either a gas, or diesel, and call it good.
 
30 in the instructions is in the neighborhood of 3/4",,, 1/4" taint gonna cut it...

That's your first clue and were you should stop till you get descent spark...

We know its triggering as it should, mod/stator on/in dist are working I would think coil issues if 1/4" is all I had...
 
(quoted from post at 02:42:26 03/08/15) A couple of weeks back I was headed home when my truck just died about 4 miles out. It's an '87 F150 with the 4.9 (300 straight six). Given that it just shut off, no stutter, just running and then dead, my first thought was a bad alternator, thus a dead battery. I've has that happen before on the '88 F150 I used to have, so I knew the symptoms.

Thankfully I was able to coast down in front of a buddy's house, so I got a ride home and got another battery. Still no luck, she'll crank over, but still won't start. So, I trailered it home, and just got around to looking at it again today.

My next thought was not getting fire, so I checked that. It had a weak spark, but I did have fire.

So, on to fuel. I did as the manual suggested and jumpered the diagnostic connector and made the pumps run all the time so I could hear them. Both of the two low pressure, in tank pumps (dual tank with the pressure actuated selector valve)and the one, high pressure pump, run like they should. Both of the LP pumps are less than a year old, so I didn't foresee any problem with them, and had actually hoped the HP pump was bad, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Checked the fuel pump solenoid, and it works. Even bypassed it and trued it, and still no start. Too I checked the inertia switch and insured it hadn't tripped, and was passing current through, and it was good. I knew the pumps were working, so I didn't foresee any problem with it, but checked it anyways, because nothing else had given any positive results.

I haven't been able to check fuel pressure at the fuel rail yet, but I did initiate the self diagnostic on the fuel system, and didn't get any codes.

Both tanks have at least a half a tank, and the gas in each came from different stations. In other words I don't think it's a water/contamination problem. I also went so far as to add about two gallons to the front tank just to make sure that there wasn't an issue with the sending unit (which were replaced when the pumps were, and have always been accurate since).

Given that it had a weak spark I checked the cap and rotor button. Both had some corrosion, and there was some wear on the electrode in the center of the cap, so I replaced them. I also replaced the ignition control module as I know that can cause issues if it dies.

I'm now sitting here with everything I know to check, or have a tool to check, checked, other than the fuel pressure. I'll probably get a guage and do that tomorrow.

Even if I have fuel pressure, is there any way to check to see if the injectors are getting a signal to fire?

I know many of you guys are more up on the automotive side of things than I am. I'm hoping someone has run into this problem before, and might have some idea of what I am missing, and need to look at.

Thanks for any advice or suggestions.
Click to expand...

Replace the pick up module. I have a 1986 F250 and the pick up module went bad on it right after I got it. I replaced it and the module because they should be replaced as a set. The truck was fine until a few months back and it quit one night on the way home. My new pick up module went bad. I had bought a Borg Warner unit because because I try to buy the best parts that I can. But just because you buy a new one and you buy a good brand one, doesn't mean you won't get a bad one. Luckily oreillys swapped mine out since it had a lifetime replacement. The second one I got was different than the first one I had. So it is possible that somebody bought a cheap one and swapped them out and got their money back with the cheap one inside the box. That pick coil and module work together to control the ignition and the injectors. If you do not put heat sink compound on the back of your module it will have a very short life. Not dielectric grease but true heat sink compound. There have been more modules burnt out from heat because of improper installation than anything. The best module you can buy is a Motorcraft. Delphi is the OEM supplier.
 
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