- Thread starter mxjeff
- Start date
A class-A CDL is required for any type of vehicle with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 lbs. or over. A class_B CDL is required for any type of vehicle with a gross combination weight(GCWR)rating of 26,001 lbs. or over or (any type of vehicle transporting or towing in excess of 10,000 lbs.). From the copy I have this is how it reads. As I read it if you are towing over 10,000 lbs. you need a class B CDL.
willie in mn
Well-known Member
I might be wrong, but this is how I read it.
If the towing unit is over 26,000# it requires a class B, & can tow a trailer under 10,000# on the class B. If the trailer is over 10,000#, then it jumps to a class A.
If the towing unit is under 26,000# class B is not required, & can tow any trailer on a class C(commercial) or class D(private), provided that the total of towing unit & trailer do not add up to 26,000#
from the back of my license:
Class D:-valid single unit and combinations up to 26000 lbs.gvwr, all recreational & farm Veh. (m.s.171.02)
Since there is a difference of opinion, my best advise is to go to your local friendly license office or Cop Shop.
Willie
If the towing unit is over 26,000# it requires a class B, & can tow a trailer under 10,000# on the class B. If the trailer is over 10,000#, then it jumps to a class A.
If the towing unit is under 26,000# class B is not required, & can tow any trailer on a class C(commercial) or class D(private), provided that the total of towing unit & trailer do not add up to 26,000#
from the back of my license:
Class D:-valid single unit and combinations up to 26000 lbs.gvwr, all recreational & farm Veh. (m.s.171.02)
Since there is a difference of opinion, my best advise is to go to your local friendly license office or Cop Shop.
Willie
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
This is how the law reads in Iowa. It is the same as the federal law. Makes NO difference if you own the truck, hauling your own stuff, or if you are getting paid to haul for others, or if you are a hired driver. If you are driving a truck that weighs 26,001# or over, you WILL have a CDL. Period.
Class A is for a truck and trailer combination that weighs 26,001 pounds or over.
Class B is for a straight truck that weighs 26,001 pounds or over.
Makes no difference how much the trailer weighs. It is the TOTAL combined weight of the truck/trailer combination unit.
Many highway patrol officers do NOT know how to interpret the law, and WILL give you a wrong answer. D.O.T. officers are slightly more knowledgeable.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
A lot depends on the state laws and if your doing it for hire or just doing things for you farm. Last I checked in Missouri as long as I drive for my farm I do not need a CDL for any truck including my 18 wheeler. Now if I did it for hire or out of state yes I need a CDL unless again it is farm stuff I am hauling and for my farm.
That all said I do in fact have a Class A CDL with only 2 things I can not drive. Hazmat and school bus are the only things I can not drive
That all said I do in fact have a Class A CDL with only 2 things I can not drive. Hazmat and school bus are the only things I can not drive
Ask 10 different troopers and you will get 10 different answers. We are running our own semi's here hauling our grain and equipment with no CDL's,, I would like to run my semi/drop deck to Rantual with all my toys, but I'm afraid I will get a scale guy that will make pull around back till it's sorted out,,,maybe miss the show,,seems if you have a goose neck and pick up they will not look so close,,,Darn shame we live in a country that has any kind of rulings like this to contend with...when we cross a state line it's near like going into another country...the CDL's and commercial license for trucks is mainly a tax/income situation, same with Highway fuel..
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
D.O.T. numbers, or operating authority, was in place long before the commercial drivers license (CDL) laws were put in place. One has NOTHING to do with the other.
D.O.T. registration ensures that each state collects money from you for the privilege of using THEIR roads.
Pete in MD
Well-known Member
- Location
- Central Maryland
Willie in mn has it right.
If the GCWR does not exceed 26,000 a CDL is not required. The GVWR of the trailer doesn't matter as long as the GCWR doesn't exceed 26,000.
Here's another interesting situation. If the GVWR of the tow vehicle does not exceed 26,000 and the GVWR of the trailer does not exceed 10,000, a CDL is not required. In other words you can go down the road grossing up to 36,000 and not need a CDL.
If the GCWR does not exceed 26,000 a CDL is not required. The GVWR of the trailer doesn't matter as long as the GCWR doesn't exceed 26,000.
Here's another interesting situation. If the GVWR of the tow vehicle does not exceed 26,000 and the GVWR of the trailer does not exceed 10,000, a CDL is not required. In other words you can go down the road grossing up to 36,000 and not need a CDL.
fixerupper
Well-known Member
Yes it is a shame our own country's DOT officers have to interpret the law the way they want to see it. The rules they have to go by are so complex only a team of lawyers can make sense of it. Then top that off with an officer who either has had a bad day or has a sense of power. We got into a long argument with a DOT officer once at a scale in Idaho when we were pulling multiple oversize machinery. To prove his point in the argument he pulled out the big book. It's a thick book and the way the fine print is worded with all the exceptions to, for example, paragraph D, pg5 of sec F it's enough to make the most organized person's brain go up in smoke. And then at the next scale the woman there herded us into a corner and chewed our butts for something one of our crew had done a week ago, and we knew nothing about it. That's the reason why truckers find routes around the scales.
My understanding from cdl instructor is that if the trailer is under 10000 gvw it does not apply to the total combined gvw. So it is possible to scale at 36000 lbs and no cdl. However 10001 gvw on the trailer and it becomes part of the total combined gvw and anything single or combined with a gvw of 26001 lbs or more requires a cdl. For what it's worth that was how it was explained to me.
Every time this question comes up, there are a million different answers. Unfortunately most of them are wrong, and will result in you getting a ticket is your ever pulled over. Believe me, since I first started researching this mess back in the late 90's before buying my current service truck, I was so confused I didn't know what to do. After hours on the phone with guys at the weight stations, I finally reached "the horses mouth". He was the local DOT safety officer and the only one out of them all that would give me his name and direct line. He ended our conversation by telling me that if I ever had any trouble with any officers over what he told me, to call him and he'd set them straight as he was 'the horses mouth' and the one that told them what the law actually said, not just what they thought it meant. I've been stopped and weighed more than my share of times, had several, random, roadside stops for inspections, etc, and other than overweight tickets for my rear axel (something I know can happen if I'm stopped on the interstate), I have never had a problem with anything I've done because I'm within the regs on everything else.
In my case I've got a truck with a 26,000 GVW (de-rated down from 33,000 by a MFG sticker), but it weights 32,000 fully loaded. I keep it tagged for 38,000 and I often tow a trailer with a GVW of 10,000 lbs. Where I run into trouble is I typically have a touch over 20,000 on my rear axel. Even then this is OK on a back road, anything over 20,000 on each axel is considered overweight on the interstate.
Like I said, I've gone through this whole mess myself so I know where you are right now. Too watched an ex-buddy go through it on the far wrong side of things, and because he was too stupid to listen to me his wallet definitely for it. I've also seen several of my customers have to deal with some of the same issues and they eventually discovered the same things I did, and it usually cost them to do it.
Now there may be minor differences based on the state you live in, but in general this is what is required at the Federal level, and what we have to do here in NC.
That said, the GCVW doesn't matter one bit as far as a CDL is concerned. In other words you can have a truck with a GVW of 26,000 lbs (no CDL required), and pull a trailer with a GVW of 10,000 lbs (no CDL required), for a combined weight of 36,000 lbs, and still be perfectly legal. I do it all the time, and have never gotten a ticket because it's legal to so. As long as your tag covers the full weight of both the truck and the trailer/load, the combined weight means nothing beyond that.
Now if you take the same truck your driving with a class B CDL and put a trailer behind it with a GVW of 10,001 lbs or more, then you will have to upgrade to a class A to stay legal.
Now, if the GVW of the truck is over 10,000, and your planning to go out of your home state, then you've got to have a health card, regardless of whether you have a CDL or not. If you stay within your on state, then no health card is required.
If you've got a class B CDL, you can drive a single vehicle with a GVW of 26,0001 Lbs or more. That vehicle can also tow a trailer with a GVW of 10,000 lbs or less without any changes to the CDL.
Now when the GVW of the trailer goes to 10,001 lbs and over, you are required to have a class A CDL, regardless of what your towing it with.
In other words if you are towing a 14,000 GVW trailer with your dually, then you are required to have a class A CDL. In a case like this, the CDL will then have a Class8 restriction on it. This means that your A CDL covers only a pickup, or small truck, with the trailer, but doesn't cover you to drive a tractor trailer. On the other hand if you have an unrestricted class A CDL, then it will cover anything from a tractor trailer on down to the pickup with a trailer over 10,000 GVW.
If you have any more questions feel free to email me. If it's not something I already know about after nearly 15 years of dealing with this mess, then it will be something I really need to find out so it doesn't eventually bite me too.
In my case I've got a truck with a 26,000 GVW (de-rated down from 33,000 by a MFG sticker), but it weights 32,000 fully loaded. I keep it tagged for 38,000 and I often tow a trailer with a GVW of 10,000 lbs. Where I run into trouble is I typically have a touch over 20,000 on my rear axel. Even then this is OK on a back road, anything over 20,000 on each axel is considered overweight on the interstate.
Like I said, I've gone through this whole mess myself so I know where you are right now. Too watched an ex-buddy go through it on the far wrong side of things, and because he was too stupid to listen to me his wallet definitely for it. I've also seen several of my customers have to deal with some of the same issues and they eventually discovered the same things I did, and it usually cost them to do it.
Now there may be minor differences based on the state you live in, but in general this is what is required at the Federal level, and what we have to do here in NC.
That said, the GCVW doesn't matter one bit as far as a CDL is concerned. In other words you can have a truck with a GVW of 26,000 lbs (no CDL required), and pull a trailer with a GVW of 10,000 lbs (no CDL required), for a combined weight of 36,000 lbs, and still be perfectly legal. I do it all the time, and have never gotten a ticket because it's legal to so. As long as your tag covers the full weight of both the truck and the trailer/load, the combined weight means nothing beyond that.
Now if you take the same truck your driving with a class B CDL and put a trailer behind it with a GVW of 10,001 lbs or more, then you will have to upgrade to a class A to stay legal.
Now, if the GVW of the truck is over 10,000, and your planning to go out of your home state, then you've got to have a health card, regardless of whether you have a CDL or not. If you stay within your on state, then no health card is required.
If you've got a class B CDL, you can drive a single vehicle with a GVW of 26,0001 Lbs or more. That vehicle can also tow a trailer with a GVW of 10,000 lbs or less without any changes to the CDL.
Now when the GVW of the trailer goes to 10,001 lbs and over, you are required to have a class A CDL, regardless of what your towing it with.
In other words if you are towing a 14,000 GVW trailer with your dually, then you are required to have a class A CDL. In a case like this, the CDL will then have a Class8 restriction on it. This means that your A CDL covers only a pickup, or small truck, with the trailer, but doesn't cover you to drive a tractor trailer. On the other hand if you have an unrestricted class A CDL, then it will cover anything from a tractor trailer on down to the pickup with a trailer over 10,000 GVW.
If you have any more questions feel free to email me. If it's not something I already know about after nearly 15 years of dealing with this mess, then it will be something I really need to find out so it doesn't eventually bite me too.
RandyB(MI)
Well-known Member
If your tow vehicle was 26000 + , then you would need CDL A with 12000 trailer. CDL B with trailer 10000 or less behind same truck. You need nothing but driver lisc. (and common sense) for the combination you are asking about. Now here in MI down around SE state line they get kinda upset with any tow vehicle with duals (not inc. ones with factory pick-up beds)without DOT # and business name.
john in la
Well-known Member
With out reading all the responses (because most of them are probably wrong) I will just say......
If your truck GVWR is over 26000 lbs you need a class B
If your truck GVWR is under 26000 lbs you do not need a CDL
If your truck and trailer combo GVWR is over 26000 lbs [b:654c4848f0]AND[/b:654c4848f0] your trailer GVWR is over 10000 lbs you need a class A
So if your truck GVWR is 25500 and your trailer GVWR is 9900 lbs (total off 35400 lbs) you DO NOT need a CDL.
Here is a flowchart from the FMCSA that proves what I just posted.
If your truck GVWR is over 26000 lbs you need a class B
If your truck GVWR is under 26000 lbs you do not need a CDL
If your truck and trailer combo GVWR is over 26000 lbs [b:654c4848f0]AND[/b:654c4848f0] your trailer GVWR is over 10000 lbs you need a class A
So if your truck GVWR is 25500 and your trailer GVWR is 9900 lbs (total off 35400 lbs) you DO NOT need a CDL.
Here is a flowchart from the FMCSA that proves what I just posted.
Tony in SD
Well-known Member
Sorry John but I think you're reading the flow chart wrong. If the
Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) is 26,001 or more then you need a CDL. So the first answer would be NO that would take you down to "Is the vehicle transporting Hazardous materials in a placardable quantity?" Again the answer is NO which moves you to "Is the vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver?" Again the answer is NO which takes you to "No CDL Required"
Personal experience has been the the DOT added the GVWR of my power unit (9,900#) and GVWR my trailer (14,000#). No CDL required.
Now if you cross state lines other rules apply.
Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) is 26,001 or more then you need a CDL. So the first answer would be NO that would take you down to "Is the vehicle transporting Hazardous materials in a placardable quantity?" Again the answer is NO which moves you to "Is the vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver?" Again the answer is NO which takes you to "No CDL Required"
Personal experience has been the the DOT added the GVWR of my power unit (9,900#) and GVWR my trailer (14,000#). No CDL required.
Now if you cross state lines other rules apply.
john in la
Well-known Member
Sorry Tony but I really do not see why you think I am reading the flowchart wrong.
I did not say mxjeff needed a CDL. In fact he does not because his GCWR is under 26000 lbs.
The fact that he is pulling a trailer over 10000 lbs mean nothing as long as his GCWR stays under 26000 lbs.
Also state lines mean nothing.
This is federal law and is enforced in every state.
The only place you will find state lines affecting trucks;
Is when you start talking DOT numbers; some states do not require it for instate movements but out of state it is needed;
AND
When you start talking exemptions; such as a farmer does not need a CDL within 150 miles OR in there state. Go out of state AND more than 150 miles from the farm and even farmers need a CDL.
I did not say mxjeff needed a CDL. In fact he does not because his GCWR is under 26000 lbs.
The fact that he is pulling a trailer over 10000 lbs mean nothing as long as his GCWR stays under 26000 lbs.
Also state lines mean nothing.
This is federal law and is enforced in every state.
The only place you will find state lines affecting trucks;
Is when you start talking DOT numbers; some states do not require it for instate movements but out of state it is needed;
AND
When you start talking exemptions; such as a farmer does not need a CDL within 150 miles OR in there state. Go out of state AND more than 150 miles from the farm and even farmers need a CDL.
Tony in SD
Well-known Member
I stand corrected
DAVISFARMS
Member
This is always a touchy subject..! Now what state are you in??? In tn. which is were I live I can get in my straight truck and haul anything but hazardous waste if it belongs to me for me........If I have a semi 12,14,16,18 wheeler hauling any thing that belongs to me for me no CDL.......AS LONG AS IT IS AGRICULTURE RELATED OR [FARM USE,i.e.,CROP GRAIN,HAY,CATTLE,HOGS].......Animals should have vet papers....Ican even drive my dads truck farm use hauling his or my stuff....I DRIVE A SCHOOL BUS FOR MY COUNTY AND PIONT PLANK ASK TROOPER IN A INSERVICE AND THIS IS WHAT I WAS TOLD...So if I were you and had questions I would get in my vehicle and go talk to the highest ranking official in my state [p.s.]they have to talk to you because they work for you.....my .02 AND I AM SURE I AM ALL WRONG
federal you are ok. It's the states that have different more restricted requirements. Some states might require a C or maybe B licence. Meaning driving intrastate no dot numbers you have more restrictions. Slap a dot number and crossing state line (interstate) you are good to go. Clear as mud right.
Mxjeff are you sure the question is license for you or just a dot number on the truck? Without looking it up seems there is a requirement for the number if the truck is registered in a company name and has a 10001 lb trailer behind it. I maybe wrong but I have noticed 3/4 ton trucks with dot numbers and that was the reason given. Now this was in Georgia.
10,001 puonds or more combined puts you into commercial. Meaning med card and logs. Dot number if crossing state lines. If not crossing state lines check your states weight limits on licenses. Some states are much more restrictive than federals.
If running federal rules and not in state follow the above chart for license classes. If in state follow the state rules.
For instance. Intrastate within IL would take a C CDL. Slap a dot number onit and crossing state lines then you become federal and a standard license is fine.
A 1/2 ton truck and trailer puts you likely into commercial territory as far as businesses go.
If running federal rules and not in state follow the above chart for license classes. If in state follow the state rules.
For instance. Intrastate within IL would take a C CDL. Slap a dot number onit and crossing state lines then you become federal and a standard license is fine.
A 1/2 ton truck and trailer puts you likely into commercial territory as far as businesses go.
Grampajohn
Member
I have a dulley pulling a 14000 pound trailer. I was told by the sec of state office in Illinois I needed a class a license to drive it. I said great lets schedule the test and they refused to allow me to take the test in that truck and trailer. I asked why they said go get a tractor trailer, I said I don't own one and I will not try to borrow one. she said you can't get a license then. total bs.
You should be able to get a class A with an airbrake restriction with a gooseneck trailer without a problem. I'm betting they are putting you into the C catagory, especially if it is a bumper pull. I don't know if you can get by with a bumper pull as a combination. Have the door sticker and trailer sticker weight. That is what they go by. Call and ask the facility that tests. Might not hurt to try a different testing facility also.
Don't take my word for it since I spent a lot of time as one of those idiot DOT cops, but there are 1 or 2 correct answers here and lot of answers that are close, but no cigar. John in La, as usual, has it pegged as far as interstate CMVs go, but some states has exemptions for CMVs and non-CMVs. Licensing is a STATE issue. Non-CMV use is different. Intrastate vs interstate is different.
Going to a tractor website and looking for rock solid answers for what might be a state issue (the op doesn't give enough info) is always a good way to get lots of tickets when you depend on someone 20 states away.
Going to a tractor website and looking for rock solid answers for what might be a state issue (the op doesn't give enough info) is always a good way to get lots of tickets when you depend on someone 20 states away.
Looked at the regs. You need to look into the usdot regs because you may get nailed for not having a dot number. It as always depends on how you own and use the truck.
Some people may think that if you have a dot number you have to have cdl license. Not so. Requirements for dot number and cdl are two different categories. Again the dot number is all based on how you title the truck, where it is used and if the weight goes over 10001 lbs.
Some people may think that if you have a dot number you have to have cdl license. Not so. Requirements for dot number and cdl are two different categories. Again the dot number is all based on how you title the truck, where it is used and if the weight goes over 10001 lbs.
So I finally heard from a DOT officer last night who is a friend of a friend. He stated that if the truck and trailer combination weight does not exceed 26001 no matter what the gvw on the trailer is a class c is sufficient. A class A is needed if the GCVW is over 26001 and the trailer is over #10001. A truck that is under #26001 and tows a trailer under #10001 still does not need a CdL. The key is the trailer! If the trailer is over #10001 than combination weight comes in play. If the trailer is under #10001 trailer is irrelevant. I think the law needs to be rewritten so it's not so confusing. I drive from PA to NJ at times and have a DOT# and that's a story for another time. Thank you for all the feed back!
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
If the law was written in clear, precise, black and white language, there would be no need for lawyers.
Glad you got an "official" answer. Better than relying on "rookies". The 10,000# trailer exception was likely slid in there by the rental truck companies (U-Haul; budget; etc....). Lets them rent an "under 26k truck pulling an under 10k trailer" to some "yo-ho" that should not be driving anything bigger than a golf cart. Getting near 36k GVWR with no training. SCARRY!!!!
If you're not doing anything commercial there's no need for a CDL regardless of the weight. If it's your privately owned truck trailer and cargo not used for monetary gain then you're not commercial. At 26,001 and on you need an elevated license, at least a B, or an A if towed portion of the 26+k exceeds 10k. Licenses are available in A, B & C in either commercial or non commercial. If you're not running commercial then none of the other requirements will apply, no medical card, hours of service, etc. Folks just make this automatic jump from 26k to CDL and it's just not necessarily true... Pick the license that meets your needs.
In that case you would still need an elevated license as your GCWR has passed the 26k line.
For instance... a 24k GVWR low pro rental moving truck towing a 8k GVWR car trailer puts you at 32k GCWR, over the limit of a C, but within B range as the towed load is under the 10k towing threshold of an A. Since its your personal possessions and car on the trailer, it's not commercial, but you'd still need an elevated license.
For instance... a 24k GVWR low pro rental moving truck towing a 8k GVWR car trailer puts you at 32k GCWR, over the limit of a C, but within B range as the towed load is under the 10k towing threshold of an A. Since its your personal possessions and car on the trailer, it's not commercial, but you'd still need an elevated license.
L.C.Gray: Nothing you said is verifiable through the FMCSA rules and regulations. This FEDERAL agency is in charge of ALL aspects of CMV operation. That includes what is/is not considered "commercial" and who does/does not have to have a CDL. Part 383 of those regulations also stipulates who MAY be exempted from the requirements and the criteria for that exemption. All states are require to follow Federal guidelines for all aspects of issuance; testing; qualifications; suspension; penalties; revocation and re-instatement of CDL drivers in their state. Get a copy of the FMCSA rules and regulations and go to part 383 and see for yourself. States have no authority to alter the federal mandates. Numerous court challenges were mounted in 1986 (when CDL became law) challenging the federal statuses authority to override state statutes. ALL FAILED!!! I have been "in the business" since 1775. I fully remember the hype and hoopla surrounding the CDL program since I had A vested intrest in the outcome.
In a way you're right.... My whole point is that if you're not commercial then the fmcsa doesn't apply...
Example.... You have a large motor home pulling a enclosed car hauler<10k , you're GCVWR and GCVW exceed 26k. You need an elevated license, in this case a B, but not a BCDL, because you're not commercial, you're not subject to any of the commercial rules.
Your private pickup, towing your trailer loaded with your personal property not being used for financial gain, then as long as you have the required license dictated by your vehicles weights, it's not commercial, does not require a CDL and is not subject to commercial rules.
Example.... You have a large motor home pulling a enclosed car hauler<10k , you're GCVWR and GCVW exceed 26k. You need an elevated license, in this case a B, but not a BCDL, because you're not commercial, you're not subject to any of the commercial rules.
Your private pickup, towing your trailer loaded with your personal property not being used for financial gain, then as long as you have the required license dictated by your vehicles weights, it's not commercial, does not require a CDL and is not subject to commercial rules.
Grampajohn
Member
I called and went to 3 different facilities and explained the truck and the trailer and yes its a gooseneck. all 3 refused to allow me to use that vehicle combination. I am trying to force the state office in Springfield to make a ruling on it. but since I can't get a written refusal from an office I can't get the state office to do anything. my opinion is, if you require me to have a cdl to drive it but refuse me to take the test driving it, you can't issue me a ticket for not having it. lol.
ooh yes it's a mixed up mess in all the States, the primary reason is to confuse us all and make every thing under jurisdiction of the DOT My thoughts if it's your truck,,your stuff on the truck and you are not wreaking havoc (following basic road laws) you should be able to drive any where in the States.But it's only going to get worse, I am around some CDL carrying Road drivers that are so ignorant that it's a wonder they can get the truck started,, a lot of us on here have backed up more than some of them have went forward,,yet they are "legal" and we are not...and of course we are living in a New America now where a President does not need to show a birth certificate to run for office..Ooo I had better get off my Soap box....
Pete in MD
Well-known Member
- Location
- Central Maryland
L.C.Gray,
You need to reread my post. Nothing that I said is incorrect. I talked about when a CDL is NOT required, not about an "elevated license". Take a look again at the flowchart that John in LA posted. What I said follows that chart exactly.
You need to reread my post. Nothing that I said is incorrect. I talked about when a CDL is NOT required, not about an "elevated license". Take a look again at the flowchart that John in LA posted. What I said follows that chart exactly.
I use the term elevated license because everybody seems to think that >26k automatically means a CDL and it doesn't. There are regular A, and B licenses just as there is also C CDLs as well. You can have Class A, B or C as a CDL or a non CDL. This concept seems to be lost on everybody.
If your Gross Combination Weight exceeds 26k, by either registration, rating or actual you better have an elevated license (something above a C).
The situation you quoted, either unit by theirself was ok, but in combination resulted in a GCWR in excess of 26k, so you're gonna have to have more in your hip pocket than an ordinary drivers license.
If your Gross Combination Weight exceeds 26k, by either registration, rating or actual you better have an elevated license (something above a C).
The situation you quoted, either unit by theirself was ok, but in combination resulted in a GCWR in excess of 26k, so you're gonna have to have more in your hip pocket than an ordinary drivers license.
what I AM SAYING; the fmcsa dictates what is and is not commercial. not the owner or driver. Also; there are exemptions for some units. Where I live; RV; farm exempt; emergency equiptment operations (fire and such); require NOTHING. just a traditional operators license. there is no such thing as NON-commercial Commercial Drivers License.
Pete in MD
Well-known Member
- Location
- Central Maryland
Your first reply to me said "nope" meaning I was wrong. Once again, what I posted about is when a CDL is NOT required, nothing more. What I said is correct.
What you keep lecturing me about has nothing to do with the facts I posted, i.e. when a CDL is NOT required. I did not say you could run >26,000 with an ordinary drivers license (non-commercial C license).
What you keep lecturing me about has nothing to do with the facts I posted, i.e. when a CDL is NOT required. I did not say you could run >26,000 with an ordinary drivers license (non-commercial C license).
Yes the fmcsa describes what is commercial, and that can get nit picky, but if you're not commercial then you're done with em and none of the other commercial stuff applies.
Right, there isn't a "Non commercial commercial license". It's either commercial or it's not.
There are class A, B, C, A CDL, B CDL, and C CDL available in my state.
If you're not running commercially, and set things up right you can run a big truck for your own personal use and have no operating rules to mess with and do it without a CDL.
This is the truck I put together for my hobby use. I singled out a class 8 semi, removed the 5th wheel, put on a flatbed and retitled it as a straight truck. That allowed me to reset the weights on the title. I reset the truck gross at 25k and put 22k gross on the trailer. The truck ran on same tags and inspection sticker as a pickup and anyone with a regular drivers license could drive it anywhere bobtail with no restriction. With any trailer it does need an elevated license. It needed no IFTA, DOT numbers, company name, or city of origin. The whole aim was to build a truck that slipped between all the limits in the rules. I carried no "papers", medical card, logbook, inspection record or manifest. As long as it wasn't being used commercially I was 100% legal as I had it set up.
Right, there isn't a "Non commercial commercial license". It's either commercial or it's not.
There are class A, B, C, A CDL, B CDL, and C CDL available in my state.
If you're not running commercially, and set things up right you can run a big truck for your own personal use and have no operating rules to mess with and do it without a CDL.
This is the truck I put together for my hobby use. I singled out a class 8 semi, removed the 5th wheel, put on a flatbed and retitled it as a straight truck. That allowed me to reset the weights on the title. I reset the truck gross at 25k and put 22k gross on the trailer. The truck ran on same tags and inspection sticker as a pickup and anyone with a regular drivers license could drive it anywhere bobtail with no restriction. With any trailer it does need an elevated license. It needed no IFTA, DOT numbers, company name, or city of origin. The whole aim was to build a truck that slipped between all the limits in the rules. I carried no "papers", medical card, logbook, inspection record or manifest. As long as it wasn't being used commercially I was 100% legal as I had it set up.
Owen Aaland
Well-known Member
When you start talking about non-commercial license requirements you will find that license requirements differ from state to state.
Minnesota has four license classifications. Class D, Class C-CDL, Class B-CDL, and Class A-CDL. There is no provision for any Class A, B, or C licenses that are not CDLs. The only exemption for not having a Class A or B license for vehicles or vehicle combinations is recreational vehicles which can be driven with a class D license regardless of weight.
no idea what state you are in. Have no idea if that state added a bunch of extra stuff above and beyond the federal regs. Here (Ky.); that rig would require a CDL A with air brake endorsement. We have only the federal CDL or standard operators license. Nothing referred to as "elevated" or anything of that sort. If your state has added a bunch of other licenses; getting stopped in a state that does not recognize anything other than FMCSA regs. could get expensive. The regs. I referred to are good nationwide.
The FMCSR only applies to CMVs in interstate operation. The idea of state following a Federal Standard on licensing you are right on. But a State has the right to issue licenses and it's own laws for Intrastate travel, The only reason the FMCSR can be applied within any state is because of the Interstate Commerce clause which allows the Feds to have any authority. Regardless, the FMCSR do not apply to non-commercial vehicles even when in interstate travel. When you get into standardization of non CDL licenses, that goes back to something outside the FMCSR, I forget exactly what it's called but IIRC Interstate Compact was part of the title.
Some states do have a non-CDL elevated class license, as you put it for non-CMVs. They vary from state to state. I've heard them referred to as non-CDL, CDLs many times and you are right to point out the oxymoronic content of such a term. IIRC, in my state they are referred to as Restricted Use CDLs.
I'm in Texas. Other states would have to recognize my registration and licensing due to reciprocity.
"Elevated" is my term just meaning anything beyond a normal C operators license.
I've been hit with the "you can't drive air brakes without a CDL" thing before. The deal is this, there's no such thing as an air brake endorsement. There is however an air brake restriction. An endorsement says "you can" a restriction says "you can't". Since my truck was under 26k it could be driven by anyone with a C or better.... As long as their license didn't happen to have a restriction (a K in Ky) on air brakes. It's a giant loophole, but that whole rig was designed to drive through the loopholes. I set this rig up with due diligence of the rules and the assistance of a TxDPS license and weight officer. It's legit. Like I said before, the rules would change with a trailer on because it raised your GCWR into a different realm.
Now for your comfort, I have held a class AM-CDL w/T&X endorsements for decades. This was my hobby use/play truck. I had other18 wheeled trucks for my business uses. I do know what I'm doing in a rig like that.
"Elevated" is my term just meaning anything beyond a normal C operators license.
I've been hit with the "you can't drive air brakes without a CDL" thing before. The deal is this, there's no such thing as an air brake endorsement. There is however an air brake restriction. An endorsement says "you can" a restriction says "you can't". Since my truck was under 26k it could be driven by anyone with a C or better.... As long as their license didn't happen to have a restriction (a K in Ky) on air brakes. It's a giant loophole, but that whole rig was designed to drive through the loopholes. I set this rig up with due diligence of the rules and the assistance of a TxDPS license and weight officer. It's legit. Like I said before, the rules would change with a trailer on because it raised your GCWR into a different realm.
Now for your comfort, I have held a class AM-CDL w/T&X endorsements for decades. This was my hobby use/play truck. I had other18 wheeled trucks for my business uses. I do know what I'm doing in a rig like that.
Okay; I did not realize some states had intrastate regs to circumvent the federal. Just confusing that you were talking about LOCAL exceptions as nationwide law when many states use the FMCSA regulations on all (intrastate and interstate.) The fact that a state here or there my have some exceptions does not extend to all states. I stated what the federal standards are that are recognized nationwide. (sorry for the confusion)
john in la
Well-known Member
WHOA there Gary;
You are confusing some of the laws.
§ 390.3(f) of FMCSA rules give you some rights to not have a IFTA sticker; logbook; and such as long as you are private use and not commercial.
But you get caught driving the truck out of state without a class A CDL and they will hang you out to dry.
You need to read § 383.3b of the CDL rules.
It states...........
(b) The exceptions contained in § 390.3(f) of this subchapter do not apply to this part. The employers and drivers identified in § 390.3(f) must comply with the requirements of this part, unless otherwise provided in this section.
You are confusing some of the laws.
§ 390.3(f) of FMCSA rules give you some rights to not have a IFTA sticker; logbook; and such as long as you are private use and not commercial.
But you get caught driving the truck out of state without a class A CDL and they will hang you out to dry.
You need to read § 383.3b of the CDL rules.
It states...........
(b) The exceptions contained in § 390.3(f) of this subchapter do not apply to this part. The employers and drivers identified in § 390.3(f) must comply with the requirements of this part, unless otherwise provided in this section.
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