Aspiring Farmer and I need some advice!!

I am looking to start a small 60-80 acre farm. I would like to use older equipment because it is more affordable, easier to work on, and I don't think I need large, expensive equipment for a farm this size. My question is what size tractor (horse power) should I be looking for to perform all of my row crop needs as well as a good chore tractor. Also looking for input on plows, discs, planters, cultivators, pickers/shellers, or cheap combines! My preference is International or JI Case. Let the posts begin!!!!

Man are we good on free advice. It's worth every penny you pay for it.
Seriously, there's thousands of answers to your questions, the main answer is "It depends."
First, 60 - 80 acres is not a lot, if you're raising wheat near Wichita. IMHO.
It is alot if you're raising acres and acres of thornless you-pick blackberries in the middle of St. Louis.
Now way to answer you, except I'd say don't go into debt, stick with local dealers in your area for parts and service and repairs. keep your mind open, and have a good time, enjoy yourself. Buy good used equipment. From honest people.
You ought to really hit the jack-pot.

Where do you live and just what are you planning on growing and what will you do with the crop. 60-80A will not support itself so it must be a hobby sort of a deal. Do you have grain storage and what kind of storage bins,barn ect there is a lot for you to figure out.

Start looking for more ground.

Allan

I would want a couple. If you aren't afraid to tinker when
needed I would say get a Farmall H or M as a little chore
tractor - a super with live hydraulics would give you a good
loader. It is a bit overkill, but an IH 856 or 966 would be a good
field tractor due to their reliability and simplicity. It all depends
on what you are doing there, I guess. If you are going to
change the world as a truck farmer then get a Farmall super A.
Back in the day that size farm was what the A's were made for.
They are easy to use in a small space and have good
mounted cultivators and things. If you are going to plant a field
crop you will want something larger. I have (or have had) all of those tractors and loved each of them for their purpose. I didn't think any of them was what I would want as a sole tractor, but that isn't how I farm. I need something hooked to the sprayer, the disk, the planter, and the bale spear at one time.

Maybe a Farmall A. I don't think you need a
combine on a 80 ac farm. And you could hand pick
the corn. If you think small you are going to have
to think outside the box. You are probably going
to want some kind of livestock and spend a lot of
hours labor if you plan to make a living from it.

RockBranch,

This is a very different context, but I think that the concept applies to small, beginning farmers as well.

I read a book one time where the author said " For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries".

No matter what you do, you will have many hardships, challenges, and disappointments. You must decide in advance that you will not allow the difficulties to dissuade you from your ultimate goal.

Old equipment always breaks down when you need it most. Costs of inputs continually go up, and prices that you receive for your products seldom grow at the same rate as the costs.

Your time will be consumed with more tasks that need to be done than you can possibly accomplish.

At the end of the day, you have to be content with what you have and how things are going.

Good luck,

Tom in TN

A lot of good advice here. There is a lot to think about. Myself, depending on the crop you plant and the time you have to spend in the field, I would look for at least a 50-70hp tractor. Plowing goes a little faster with an extra bottom or two, but like I said it all depends on the time you have to spend in the field.

a gas powered 656 should make you a good little tractor. There are a of of them around with loaders I would not want anything less. You can buy machinery to match it. But you did not say what you are going to try to grow. That would big a big help.

What crops? You said row crop, that would be corn and
soybeans?

JD 7000 planters are good.

100 hp tractor should do what you want. Could get by smaller,
but this is a weekend deal, 100 hp lets you do stuff.

Combines are money pits, cheaper to hire a neighbor for that
size operation. But there are some few good older combines if
you want to do it yourself. Some of us are partial to Gleaners,
K or F series would handle a small farm well. JD 4400 or 6600
series were very popular as well. IHC I'm not as familiar with,
the 715, was it a 403 before that?

New Idea pickers were popular here, with a Minneapolis
Moline D sheller.

Plows and disks and cultivators, dime a dozen, get some in
good shape. If you are plowing cornstalks, get a more modern
high clearance plow - more spacing between bottoms and
taller beam to let the stalks pass through a little better.

Location and crops would really help folks give a little better
advice, dry sand or wet clay area, and so forth.....

Paul

A 706/756;806/856/966 willl give the most 'bang for
the buck'.Modern enough yet old enough to be
affordable.Haveing a little "too much hp" is way
better than not having enough.But,there are LOTS of
good tractors(all brands) in the 60-80 range that
will give good service.As was said,decide what you
want to raise,then plan and buy accordingly.Buy
older used equipment.Buy a welder,be prepared to use
it frequently.Good luck in your farming 'enterprise'.I started like you.Small with a JD730 diesel.40 years later I am still small with 'old iron'.But I'm still in the game.

I agree with all the above. Your new tractor should be big enough to pick up at least a 4x5 bale. Have a 3 point hitch. Cont PTO. Power steering is nice. Also so is a cab and air. I started with none of the above. Not smart.If not mechinacial look at a newer tractor like a Kubota.

Wow! Thank you so much for the fast responses.

My plan is to create some extra income while still working a full time job. I grew up around agriculture my entire life but understand that without a family member with a lot of land, there is no way I can jump in full time. I would like to implement a 4 year crop rotation including some variation of alfalfa, oats, corn, beans, wheat? I would also like to build a herd of grassfed cattle and hogs up to around 15 each. Chickens as well.

Do you all think 80 acres is enough land to sustain a farm this size? I compare it to my grandfather's day when he was a "big time" farmer with just under 300 acres. He used a Farmall M and a AC WC. His livestock operation was much larger than what I am aiming for.

Many unknown factors, I know, but I am serious about doing this and want as much advice I can get so I can put together an accurate budget/business plan to get started.

Thanks again for all the good stuff so far!

Since you have a brand picked out,and a 3 point hitch and live PTO will be something you want,even though it's probably still more tractor than you actually need,I'd say a Farmall 656.

My advice.......... Don't....... here is SW MO a
farm is just a low paying job. But does have it's
good points too.

Good point about the plow as corn is planted a lot thicker now than when the older plows were designed. A person can use an older plow but you have to chop or disc the stalks before plowing and then still have plug ups. That gets old very fast.

The advice that a friend received from his father was, "Get a job, save some money, and then buy a farm." That is what he did and he has done quite well. He had cows until a tornado took his barn and silo down. He then bought a small business that he could run with some help from his sons and became a Crop Farmer.
SDE

Alfalfa is expensive to grow, doesn't do much the first year,
then harvest for 4 following years or so. Takes hay equipment.
Good crop, but it adds a whole new set of machinery to own
and maintain.

If corn grows well, wheat won't make any money for you. If
wheat is a good cash crop in your area, then corn likely won't
drown well. Has to do with heat and rainfall or irrigation....

You don't make money farming. You gain assets. The govt
makes sure, you get taxed heavy if you actually have a good
year now and then, you end up sticking the money into land,
machinery, livestock, fertilizer. No way you make much cash -
50 years later you have a lot of assets, but you didnt ever have
any cash....

80 acres is too small to make anything on regular crops, and
too big to take care of specialty crops. So, its just all wrong.

Things have changed a lot since your grandpas day, we get
almost the same prices he did, but a $8000 tractor back then
was huge, today a little small one costs $40,000. Its just a
different deal then to now. You need a lot of acres or a real
special small crop in high demand. What grandpa did doesn't
really work with today's numbers.

Now, if I discouraged you, then you weren't cut out for farming
anyhow.

If you are going ahead anyhow, have fun, enjoy, do the best
you can. You have great plans, once you get started the land
and the markets will tell you what direction to really go.

Have fun.

Paul

Lots of good advice on here. I would add that you should
consider availability of parts and service when you buy a tractor
and equipment, especially older stuff. I would also advise you to
look for a tractor with modern features like 3 point hitch, live
PTO, power steering, etc. IH and Case made good equipment,
but if it turns out that they are not your best option, there are
lots of good John Deere, Ford, and Masseys for sale at
reasonable prices.

I agree, the acres from years ago don't pan out in numbers in todays world, which is a shame. Something you could consider since you mentioned livestock, you could see if there is anyone, such as neighbors in your area that would buy your beef/pork/chickens after you are done raising them. A lot of people prefer local grown products that they know where it came from. Just something to consider, but if you do, in todays world you might have to get it in writing as so many people will agree to it and then back out.

80 acres enough? Based on what you are telling us? A small income to supplement another job? I would give you a tentative yes because I do it. I am a middle aged CPA with my own practice. It pays the bills. The farm generates a positive cash flow each year if I do not count in my constant equipment purchases. I tend to buy older equipment with relatively stable values and then religiously sell it when I am done with it for at least what I paid for it. Nothing rusts in the fence rows here. For this reason I do not get too excited about factoring in equipment cost expense (depreciation) when calculating if I am making money. I also don't factor in the cost of the land. Taxes and insurance yes, purchase price no. I just use operating costs against operating expenses and I always come out ahead. I will also add that I do almost 100% of my maintenance and repairs.

From someone who is 11 years ahead of you on the timeline of your plan, let me tell you that time is what will be your biggest issue. It takes a lot of man hours. In order to make it cost effective, you need to really work it yourself and have family working with you. Even so, don't expect riches other than what you take away from the experience.

With all due respect to the IH models mentioned...

Buy bigger. Was a time when you could do 80 acres with a Cub. Try that today while working a full time job and you will lose your frigging mind. I have a 1586 and when someone stops by and asks me if I will hay or plant the back 40 acres of their inherited land I am ready to jump on it. You can buy a 20' implement many times cheaper than you can get a 10 footer. Get the job done faster in that hour of daylight you have after work. My vote for you would be a 1086 with dual PTO.

Hey Dave,

I think my outlook on farming is inline with what you are doing. What do you grow or raise?

From recent experience it depends. Basically if it's only going to be one tractor it has to be big enough to run your biggest piece of equipment. I started with an IH M. Darn thing now runs my poo spreader once a year. Not enough hydraulics to run the haybine and not enough HP to run my round baler. Lite soil conditions and hills and it wont even pull a 12 FT grain drill with digging in and getting stuck. So the all the tractor I'll ever need idea went out the window quick. Now I'm running a 100 plus HP tractor and thinking about another that size.

So to answer your question we would need to know what implements you would plan on running. Like my round baler that requires 70HP and makes 1800 pound bales. Not only would you need a 70 HP tractor but you are going to have to be able to move those bales. My BIL has a baler that will run on 40HP and the bales are about 900 pounds. I have a pull behind PTO driven Combine that requires 85 HP. But both my disk and field cultivator are a little small for my big tractor. That's OK as long as I don't try running fast and just keep the appropriate ground speed but my plow is right at the limits of the tractor.

Going to move round bales with a loader then you need a tractor not only big enough but you will really wan to have something with power steering.

So basically you didn't supply enough info to get a good answer.

Rick

Well since i have spent a good portion of my life working on farm equipment and Hobby farming i have a vary good idea on what you need . And in todays market prices are up double of what they use to be on older equipment . When i was HOBBY farming i farmed with the junk that i found at sales that nobody wanted to start with . I made it into something that would work. But that was me . May i recommend that you get TWO tractors , ya some will say WHY ??? , well i started with just one and it did not take long to figure out that i needed two . The day i planted my 706 while plowing and then trying to find someone who could come help me . You can always find someone to drive a tractor but finding someone to take time and bring there tractor can be a problem . Myself i am All for the Farmall International line because this is what i like and know inside and out . For what you want to do a GOOD 806 D. and a good 706 D , (yes i said DIESEL and make it a German Diesel . The gassers are getting to be a real pain to keep running when your trying to work them even for me as i have always run the 706 gassers and with the fuel today you can not expect them to work hard with out major problems . also keep your horse power gap narrow and your tillage equipment to a size that if your big tractor happens to go down that your smaller tractor can also pull it . So say you do buy a 706-756 D and a 806-856 a 710-720 4x16 plow can be pulled by either as for a disc a 13 foot 370 is a vary good disc that either tractor can pull with duals , a good 510 drill or a 5100 drill will serve you well and there cost is not that high . a good J D 7000 corn planter in 4-6 row with either liquid or dry fert. can be had for around 2500-4500 bucks . as for hay equipment ya can not go wrong with New Holland . Then the other STUFF you will need a way to HAUL your grain . Now do you want trucks ?? gravity wagons ?? or do you have a one ton 4X4 and a goose neck dump trailer ?? As to corn picking well we still do some picking and it is a real pain parts for pickers are getting hard to come by . For a one horse operation ya can not beat and older smaller combine with a two or four row head. Or even a three row narrow if you are using a six row planter. On the combine thing i prefer the Massey line and have had good luck with them and they do a great job when set properly , i have had a 300 and a 410 and a 750 and yep all bought at sales needing some work . The 300 was bought for 650 bucks with out a cab and a used cab cost me 150 bucks got the two row corn head for 7.50 at a sale added a alt to the charging system off a 1970 Dodge dart for 35 bucks added lost of lites due to my night time farming and ended up doing LOST of custom work with that little 300 for guys like you to the tune of over 27000 dollars in the seven years i ran it doing small grain and corn . Lastnight while doing my trolling i saw three 550 massey combines and one 540 for under 5000 bucks . Oh wait that is more then i had in all my equipment when i started out .

All good stuff! Thanks!

Plat out 6 acres for a pole barn. for shop and possible mother in law living space in there. d, minimum 40x72.And your feedlot. Maybe a loafing shed. You didn't say where you are located.
Put the rest into alfalfa. With proper land care it should give you 4 tons per ac, per year. And the stand should last 6-8 years.Need to add P&K each year.
Get a 966 for primary tractor with a loader for handling big rounds.
A small Moco,or haybine. 5 bar rake and an older NH round baler.

First of all, narrow your focus down to what kind
of farming you are going to do. Just row crops.
cow calf, selling hay, or maybe just pasture some
beef or dairy heifers . I would stay away from any
tractor built after the 1960's. You will want a
tractor with at least a 12gpm hydraulic pump. Look
for a tractor that had a long build period , the
more of the model that where built , the better
chance they were a good unit, and parts will be
easier to find. I would go with between 75-100 hp.
Big bales are heavy, and smaller old tractors do
not have the strength in the front ends to carry
the load for very long. Remember to keep your farm
simple to start with, learn to grow one or two
crops,at a time. Say oats, and hay. Sometimes a
custom operator can do some work for you, rather
than try to get by with some poor old junk, and
still spend the money on repairs. Go slow, watch
other successful farmers and what they do, in your
area.

A farmall A ? Hand pick corn? He wants to farm part time not Amish style.

Think this out a little better. With 5 crops plus pasture some of your fields will be small. Also you did not say where you are located but imput cost and price per Bu when you harvest it may not leave much depending on yields. Also you can not count on the weather, there is 60 bu per acre difference in corn yields around depending on if you had rain or not this summer. Do have 2 tractors 3 would be nice as well.

First thing I would figure out is how you are going to finance your operation. Funds on hand, borrowed money, future earnings, etc. Maybe, then post and the ideas would be more specific to your situation.

Do you already own the land or do you plan on renting this
ground? Does the farm already have some infrastructure, ie.
Barn, water, sheds, fences, drains, etc? What are your
strengths and interests when it comes to farming? I farm part
time so i could offer some input on this topic based on your
answers to this questions. I assume you're talking about w
part time enterprise right?

Number 1? Hay. Started with hay and still hay. Really like doing hay but let's be clear...it is REALLY hard work. So I keep the hay down to a modest amount. A few years back I had the chance to buy what remained of a 176 year old dairy operation. Buildings all gone and parts of it gone to he!! and rented by a local BTO who only cared what he could get out of it. He had really done some damage by taking out tree lines and changing watersheds. Erosion was a problem and the place needed help. So I doubled his rent and set about fixing the place up. Took a few years but just this past season I took over one of the fields and planted it in corn. He did the rest in soy. Next year I take over the rest and will plant it in corn while rotating the first field into something else. It has been in corn/soy/wheat for about 6 years now. Row crops are different than hay and I am learning as I go.

You will to.

Just remember...TIME is going to be your real problem. Make decisions based on efficiency. You will have friends on these forums that will help you over most every hurdle. Good luck to you!

(lol)

Hi
my dad farms 200 acres up in Canada, we got
grain and I custom feed hogs for guys. it's
tough to make a go of it now. I also run shop
here and fix equipment for local guys for extra
income.
Most of the time the shops paying the bills if
hog checks don't come when they should or the
guys pull out and I change suppliers.
I would say if you got left 2 million, your
soon going to be a millionaire, Basically you
will probably blow 1 farming!.
If you got left the land and have no debts
after buying equipment you might do ok on niche
market stuff, but the butt can drop out on that
stuff in a hurry in tough financial climates.
If you want to farm I'd go get a job on one
and spend somebody else's money having fun. The
only risk you then have is "Don't come to work
Tomorrow".
With fixing I can also find out that a lot of
parts are no longer available for this old farm
equipment, or you spend days looking for it, or
waiting for it to arrive when or if you find a
replacement.
Small farms are vanishing for a reason these
days. Everything is expensive and some days you
wonder why you bother. Farmings in my blood,
But I sure wish i paid attention at school and
did something that makes fantastic money and
has a pension and benefits plan!
good luck if you go ahead and please keep us
updated.
Regards Robert

I would get a 966 if IH, big enough to do what you want, SOLID tractor.

They used to figure a man could pick 40 bushel a day. At today's yields that is 1 or 2 acres a week. Better figure on a corn picker.

What many people on here are suggesting is overkill, in my opinion. What you need to do is figure out what crops your going to grow and in what quantities, then figure out what size equipment you need.

If you actually are going to try to make money and not just play farmer on weekends, you will need specialty crops. Otherwise you will be competing with guys who are farming 1,000 - 10,000 acres. Fruits and vegetables, pumpkins, Indian Corn, and other stuff that you can sell at farmer's markets. Naturally raised (i.e. no growth hormones) beef and pork and free range chickens and eggs sell well in some areas. Of course you will use a lot more labor, that's why the big operators don't do these things.

OH, forgot to add. Before you buy any brand of tractor find out what your local dealers are like plus distance. If you have to wait a week for parts with hay on the ground and rain in the forecast that dream tractor or super deal isn't so great anymore.

Rick

Good sound advice, especially on the 1 mil disappearing and the last line about getting a good job with benefits.

I'm a free man now (retired) and can run my small farm till all my pension is consumed.

Mark

You need a good full time job with benefits unless you can farm at least a thousand acres. The bigger, but older, equipment will allow you to do that nights and weekends.

We farm a couple hundred acres, do own hay and crops, but hire out the combining. I would not want a combine unless doing 400 acres. It is to much money for maintenance, and the risk of having one fail is to great due to limited harvest time.

I farm 60 acres with a john deere 4320. I have a few more
tractors, but could get by with only the 4320. About half of
what I have is alfalfa, the rest is corn, soys, wheat, depending
on the year. It's big enough I can rent my neighbor's 1590
no-till drill, pull a 7 shank disc chisel, etc, and small enough
to rake hay. I'd say something that hp range +/- would work
well. Could get by with a ford 8n if you had the time, but I
have a full time job too.

(quoted from post at 06:56:45 11/08/14) I am looking to start a small 60-80 acre farm. I would like to use older equipment because it is more affordable, easier to work on, and I don't think I need large, expensive equipment for a farm this size. My question is what size tractor (horse power) should I be looking for to perform all of my row crop needs as well as a good chore tractor. Also looking for input on plows, discs, planters, cultivators, pickers/shellers, or cheap combines! My preference is International or JI Case. Let the posts begin!!!!

Click to expand...

My opinion would be a 350 international or John deer A or B.
You can plow and pull disk and most every thing else for a small farm. You may also check out the Farmall M and the H. I have farmed with all of these tractors.

Work/live on that size of farm here in WI. A 706 farmall is a good tractor for anything. I would suggest having at least 2 tractors (we have 10+ in running order)Then if one gets stuck or don't want to unhook you have a back up. Something around a M or W6, or newer towards 504(or 460) size. A good size combine is a 105 IH had a couple of them but were to shuck apart and parts we needed were hard to find. A full hyd. loader is a great tool to(currently use one on JD2440 had one on Farmall504). A small skid-steer is nice for when you can't get in some place with tractor loader. We use a Case 1816B that was repowered with 20hp. Good small loader with enough "snot" to do most tasks it takes on. A 1 row corn picker, small square baler(we have a 47 IH), and 300 bsh. spreader are other things to keep in mind

I'm in the same boat as you. I grew up in farming families and it's in my blood. I bought a smaller plot last summer with 12 acres. I don't plan on doing any row crops. Find a specialty crop or a niche that hasn't been filled in your area. Start small and build a reliable customer base. I don't think you can come out ahead raising corn and soybeans like everyone else on just 80 acres if you're selling to the co-op or elevator.

80 is too much for all specialty crops without a developed market for it. I would probably fence it into paddocks for managed, intensive grazing and graze multiple species on part and hay on the rest.

I guess it all depends on what you are interested in. Don't listen to they guys on here saying you can't make money on 80 acres, you just have to find something no one else is doing and develop a market and watch emerging trends from the masses.

Size of the livestock part will depend on how much of that 60-80 acres you are going to devote to pasture and how long they can graze. 60-80 acres, between pasture and hay can support 10-15 cow calf pairs depending on location (growing season) and soil conditions if figuring as I was told of about 5 acres per cow calf unit. Now that's all hay and pasture, no row crop.

Machinery? Lot of options. When I started just a few years ago it was with a Farmall M, a self propelled swather and a baler. Was that ever a mistake! I'm doing round bales now and using a swing arm haybine. The M won't run either. So today it spreads manure once a year and may mow some weeds in the pasture. What a joke! Less than 20 hours a year! So I would advise you to evaluate what you want to do. Determine HOW you want to go about it. Then start looking at what implements you would like to have to do the job. Then you can look at tractors. HP, hydraulics and PTO requirements will dictate what size tractor you want.

Now you had some on here advocate the Farmall A. Nice little tractor but the cultivator is brand specific and no one has made a cultivator to fit that tractor in almost 50 years. Here they are hard to find. So you can have a tractor and no implements. The M doesn't have very good hydraulics and no hitch system. So there you are looking for drawbar implements. Here tuff to find in decent shape because they are popular with people for yard art and collectors now want implements to go behind their show tractors. IH Fast Hitch and the AC Snap Coupler implements are hard to find too. I'd recommend something with a 3 point. Not a recommendation but as an example the Ford N series plus the 600 and 800 tractors had a CAT 1 3 point. You can buy new about any implement you want for those from a variety of brand names. Look at Northern Tool online. They have an amazing number of implements that are CAT 1 3 point. Also if you are going to round bale you will need a tractor that can move those bales with either a 3 point or loader mounted bale spear. That requires a bigger tractor and if using it with a loader power steering is a must.


So look at what you want to do and how you want to get it done. If looking at small square bales a tractor the size of the M will do it. Something like the 400/450 Farmall will run a small haybine and a square baler no problem. That would include the D15 AC and other similar sized units. Another factor will be support for parts and possible repairs.

Rick