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O/TFamily Dilema Advice

F

Fergienewbee

Well-known Member
I just got a call from my brother asking to borrow $2000.00. He says he's behind a month on his rent, $1600.00. In May we settled on my dad's house and my brother, sister and I each got a check for over 40,000. His is gone already. He doesn't own a house; he rents an apartment with an older lady friend. He owed my dad about 10,000 when Dad passed away, which he never paid back. If I loan him the 2000, I won't see it either. My guess is he might have a gambling problem. Something just doesn't add up. He has a job, a company car plus I think he paid his own car off. He's not a kid--he's 62. I know I'm going to have to tell him no. He's my brother, but if I loan him this time he'll just call again, when he gets in trouble again. Any advice? I know several of you have dealt with similar issues.

Larry
 
You are on the right track with saying no. Sometimes tough love is the best thing you can do for them.
 
I think complete honesty with him would work the best. If it were one of my brothers, I'd want to help and would help, but I'd express they obvious issues with budgeting. My help would be contingent on examining and resolving budget issues. Obviously there's an issue and for his sake it'd be worth getting to the bottom of. He might be offended, but if you state that there's an obvious budget issue there's no need for hurt feelings. My aunt's second husband has a problem with gambling. My grandmother had given them two different homes she owned and they lost them both in under a year (separated by 10 years). Looking back, that certainly would have been the way to handle it. In our church, that's how we approach requests for monetary help. You get to care for the person but also be responsible for the money we're entrusted with.
 
I guess I would give it to him, but have a heart to heart: "I know I'll never see this again, and that's OK. But this is the LAST time I will give you money. I know you make enough to pay rent, and heaven knows what happened to the 40 grand you got less than 6 months ago. But this is the LAST time I'm going to bail you out. Get it? Got it? Good."
 
As long as you (or anybody else) will continue to finance his irresponsibility, it will continue. It simply becomes a pattern, and those that "bail him out" will simply become enablers.
My vote would be to tell him that he made the problem, so he can figure out how to deal with it. Today, it is the rent. Tomorrow it may be the car payment, an overdue fine, or a gambling debt.
When there are no consequences to bad behavior, it becomes the normal expected behavior, eh?
 
I would ask him if he has a gambling addiction, if so I would tell him I'll pay up to $2000 for you to get the real help you need.
He's 62 and has a history of not paying back, now that your dad is gone he needs another means of support and he's coming to you. I would say he needs to learn to stand on his own two feet or fall flat on his face then there is only one way to go after that. He's made his choices so there is no need for others to pay for them. He needs to be more pro-active than re-active sort of speak.
 
I agree. He will never change knowing he has a cash cow to fall back own. Went through this with a former friend of mine.
 
Let slide whatever in the world he can rent and pay $1600 a month for? Good grief, what a lot f money..
Way I'd think of it, he is asking YOUR FAMILY to fork over $2000, so HIS family can get it. I'd think you owe YOUR FAMILY first consideration.
 
Gambling addiction is a possibility, as are drugs and/or alcoholism. All three tend to go together.

If you loan him the money directly, it's highly unlikely it will go towards his rent. If he cared about paying his rent he would have paid it, rather than do whatever it is he did with his money instead of paying rent. If you're inclined to help him, pay his rent directly. He may be sufficiently offended that he'll leave you alone for awhile.
 
Have a somewhat similar problem with my daughter. She has been told after the last 'loan' that that was it. No more- don't even think about asking. She might even freeze some this winter.....
 
I'd say no. Bailing him out would just be buying him a few more minutes. The sooner he has to come to grips with certain realities, the better.

I'm not a miserly skinflint, just a realist. Last year my brother's widow borrowed $1,000 from me, promising to pay me back in three months. Well, a year later, no payback. But, I've said nothing, and if she needed to borrow another thou I'd probably do it again. She doesn't have much income, and she's not careless with her money.
 
I am sorry for the loss of your Dad.

Health care professionals would call the person who "loans" the money an "enabler" and apparently it has been going on for a few years with your Dad. The more money he is given the longer he can continue his behavior. So by giving him money you are "enabling" his bad behavior.

Good luck
Rich
 
The best money I ever spent was "loaning" money to a couple of pests. They avoided me like the plague from then on. It would be hard to say no the first time to a brother though. But tough love is still love. TDF
 
I think I'd ask him why he can't pay his rent from his salary and "Where did the $40K plus go in 5 months?" He'll probably give you a big BS story and then you'll know he's a loser. Then you can give him the "loan" and know he'll be back for more.
 
Back in my earlier years I had a spending promblem.I was working in Retail in a store with alot of new stuff around me. I soon started to realise it when I started to ask to borrow money. Every body I borrowed from wanted interest back when I paid it back. I finnaly had to admit it and then got help with parents.They told me to sell stuff like farm tractor, pick up truck and a sedan car that I was not useing. Then I was free of any body I owed and I could start fresh all over again. The best way to go is if you give him money have him sell some thing to you of the value of what he needs in money. That will make him learn and understand that money is not free.
 
$40,000 in April, five months ago. Has a job with a company car. His car is paid for. $1600 a month rent--that's $8,000. That is his salary, her salary(?), and $32,000. To spend all of that is high living for a $1600 a month apartment dweller if one did not make any big purchases.

Do you have a casino near by? That craps table can burn up some money in a hurry. Same for blackjack, and those other table games. Slots? That bill slot sucks the bucks right out of your wallet.

No judgements here about gambling or living in an apartment or being broke. You have to deal with what you are presented. I think $2,000 might be a cheap. Give him the $2,000 and make him sign a contract and don't lend / give him anymore cash. Make sure that you let him know that he is cut off!
 
I don't have any better advise than been said, but feel for you, between a rock and a hard place..... Its tough to see family struggle with their struggles, and then they want to lay a guilt trip on top of it.

Paul
 
Tell him no loans. My late older brother was always calling for money. I told him I didn't have it. If he was paid on Friday he was broke on Monday even when he was single. He even wrote letters when he was in the Air Force to my parents
wanting money. I was in the Army and I sent money
home. He was married 5 times and never owned any property. Time to say no. Hal
 
That reminds me of what Nebraska Cowman said on here several years ago, on that subject- "If you loan a guy 20 bucks and never see him again, it was probably worth it."
 
If you end up doing it put everything in writing and get something for collateral !
Or just buy something of his out right.
 
I have a deadbeat sister and BIL. If you don't send them money you cease to exist in their eyes. Won't give you the time of day. I stopped existing about 12 years ago. They have even moved and I have not been given a forwarding address. There was never a harsh word, just an end to the money. This is where it eventually ends up when all the enablers keep providing money. You as a good person, with their best interests at heart, can actually end up the outsider while the family rallies around the deadbeat.

Don't send money. Don't pay his bills. Don't try to get him help. Let him sort it out for himself. There is always the possibility that, if you refuse him, he might just pull it together and actually live out his life with some self respect. But don't get your hopes up.
 
He is your brother ask him WTH is going on with his money. I wouldnt care if it offended him or not.Then just go from there. He might have a liget excuse. then again he might be telling you a story. Im all for helping when someone needs help but only if they are trying themselves. If they just peeing the money away then i would have to say i pass brother. Learn to manage you money better.
 
If it's a legitimate need due to bad luck then I've loaned money. If they pay it back great, if not never again.

If it's enabling poor behavior, no loan. Sounds like your brother has some poor behavior.
 
Do not lend him a dime...........He is a bum.

Give him $2k in Monopoly money as a joke then tell him to get help. He may never talk to you again........which may be a good thing.

I will not lend anyone any money due to a woman that my wife was friends with, I loaned her $325 so she could pay her car payment.........Never saw her again.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if his lady friend is the real problem. Does she have grown children? Are they deadbeats? That can be a bottomless money pit, and the only escape for him is to run out of money the sooner the better.
 
I'd just say, "You're my brother and I love you but I will not loan you any money."

And if he has an angry or hurtful response - I'd just repeat "You're my brother and I love you but I will not loan you any money... and this subject is now off-limits for all time."
 
To finish what I was posting DON'T loan him any money. DON'T pay his bills. If you do he will return every time he needs money.

I loaned my former friend a total of 8000.00 dollars in two loans.Wife got mad told me I would never see it again. That was 9 years ago and haven't seen him since then.Loaned him the money because he said his wife had some medical problems.Ran into his wife a few days later. Nothing wrong with her and she had not seen him in a month.

I did however hear from several people looking for him. Some were the kind you didn't want looking for you.Save your money. Take care of yourself and your family. Let him sink on his own.
 
I would simply tell him, Sorry, I don't have any money either. Leave it at that, if he blew thru that much that quickly, he must have something he can sell to pay the rent.
 
Had an ex girlfriend that tried that. Told her, Sorry, you already spent all my money while you were living with me. Don't have any more to give you.
 
Thanks for all the advice and help and maybe even a sounding board. I knew the answer as soon as he hung up. I called him and told him I just couldn't do it. I'd give him the shirt off my back if I thought he had a legitimate problem, but this is more than just a minor setback. Time for him to grow up and accept responsibility and consequences for his actions.

Larry
 
Very good decision. Same thing happened to me. Brother still owes me $4k. I will never see any of it. All I did was enable his bad behavior.
 
If he has a gambling problem and that is where the money is going, he may need to go to gamblers anonamous before he can fix his problems. My extended relative had to do that to get straightened out. When you go to that, your identification is given to the casinos and if they see you in there they call the law. They come and arrest you. You have to sign up for this to be envolved in the annonamous program. They have to want to quit themselves.
 
When you feel sorry for a person that is friends with your wife.........And you have the $325 to help her out you just feel obligated, knowing that you may never see the money. Oh well, I learned my lesson.

I have a friend that loaned an old friend $5,000 so he could start a small business. (I never met the recipient of the $5k) This friend of mine has made it clear that he wants the five thousand back and has set up payment terms with this guy. $325 is easy to swallow and I chalk it up a lesson learned. I could not part with $5,000 and let it go for good. I would ride that guy until he was very old. I guess he went through a divorce and is behind the 8 ball. (but you still do not screw over friends)
 
I have a brother that I didn't speak to for 25 years. He started coming to family reunions held every 3 years but we don't have much of anything to say to each other. He's 83 years old and still hasn't learned how to handle money.
 
If you can spare the 2000 without changing yours or your family's life then I would give not loan him the money. Then I would tell him "now get the hell off my place and don't come back"
 
I have had a rule for years. If I have the money to spare and will never miss it, I might lend it out. My experience if familay every pays back it is a miracle.
I am older than you and another thing to consider is that as you get older a lot of people's medical care costs go up substantiously.
Premiums and deducticles are going up dramstically despite O-care
 
My parents "enabled" my brothers poor choices in life for about 25-30 years. Almost broke my parents. My dad an I had farmed together and I never took anything from them I didn't earn. I was stupid and had no written agreement. It basically cost me half of a 244 acre farm. My folks are gone now, my brothers gravey train is gone, and I haven't spoke to him in 9 years and dont plan too.

Lots more involved (mostly drug related, he didn't want to farm, unless it involved growing dope)

Gene
 
(quoted from post at 17:53:58 10/13/14) I think complete honesty with him would work the best. If it were one of my brothers, I'd want to help and would help, but I'd express they obvious issues with budgeting. My help would be contingent on examining and resolving budget issues. Obviously there's an issue and for his sake it'd be worth getting to the bottom of. He might be offended, but if you state that there's an obvious budget issue there's no need for hurt feelings.
Click to expand...

RC your type of approach to this just enables the bad behavior. What ever you say will have NO effect on this type. They will promise the moon and the stars, and never, ever do any of it. The time to teach this leach good money habits has long passed. Maybe for a young person that is WILLING to improve it might help.

I have a brother (55 y.o.) who has never had a job for more than a few months a year. He sponges off of who ever he can sucker for a place to stay, a few beers, food or money, what ever. My parents enabled him for years until they got to the place where they didn't have it anymore and my sister stepped in and stopped it. Dad once said, "Am I supposed to let him live under a bridge?" My response: "YES!". His latest scam was some sort of government education money, he lived high for awhile until it ran out. He's a likable guy, fun to talk to, could be your best friend, the ladies like him, but it's all part of his survival game. I wonder what he will do when his old-lady girl friend dies (she's up in her late 70s), my parents are gone and he has no retirement income, not even SS. Honestly, at this point, I don't care. He can go live under a bridge (it's Sun Coast Florida so he won't freeze at least) and be buried in a paupers grave, not that I would know about it, he's younger than me. My attitude is not real Christian but I know what I'm dealing with in him.
 
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