Calling for some Horse knowledge about grazing???

JD Seller · Oct 10, 2014

In two weeks my Grand daughters are hosting a invite only trail ride/camp out. They did this last year but it was later in the year.

It will be a Sat/Sun deal. They have two riding trails picked out. They go on one five mile loop Saturday and a different 5 mile one on Sunday. They will not be on public roads other than to cross one county gravel road. They have gone to the land owners and asked an received permission to ride across their land.

I am quite proud of the work they have done to make this work. They traded out helping some of the landowners doing chores or yard work for the landowner allowing them to ride through.

Now my question: There will be 15-20 horses that will need a grazing area. I have pasture ground that would be close enough to work but it has been grazed by my cattle all summer. There is not much grass there now. I have another field that is an older alfalfa seeding that is 30% grass and the balance alfalfa. This field would work well as it has some of the best fences on the place. So if one of the horses pull it's ground stake out it would not be able to get totally lose easily.

The issue is would the alfalfa/grass mix be too rich for the horses to graze on?? I am not worried about anything the horses may do to the stand as I may rotate it out next spring anyway.

Should I switch the cattle around so the horses could be on the grass instead??? There is not much there maybe 2-3 inches of grass. Would this be better with some hay?? The Grand Daughters have enough hay put up to share with the visitors for the two days.

I don't want someone's weekend spoiled by their horse getting sick.

old · Oct 10, 2014

That area may be to high in protein for the horses. Alfalfa while good is not good if to much of it for a horse.

Ted in NE-OH · Oct 10, 2014

I would have each owner bring some of their hay and feed that. Too rich of grass and a horse could founder. If a horses owner brings their own food then they are responsible.Horsed turned loose in a pasture could fight also if they are not used to being together.

VicS · Oct 10, 2014

We are sort of trail riders. Would not expect to graise. Always take grain and hay. That way no problems. We ride in national forest. No fences. If one gets loose never goes far. Always tie horses high. Vic

Billy NY · Oct 10, 2014

I would consider playing it safe, graze em on the grass. Its hard to say what feed regimen all of them are on before, so a quick change of feed could be a problem, if its too rich for em, that and potentially being an abrupt feed change. Not sure about any issues with grazing except that. I know you don't want them eating a bunch of alfalfa, then drinking lots of water. It could be like we do in the spring with the fresh grass coming up, gradual introduction to it, so they just get so much time, slowly increasing until they have gotten used to it.

Years ago we used to keep 4 acres in alfalfa, used to feed that as hay, but small amounts etc., and I used to get hay from a field that was grass/alfalfa mix, fed the same, they sure enjoy it, just not too much.

Nancy Howell · Oct 10, 2014

In my opinion, the alfalfa is way too rich. Switch the horses to the grass field.

The alfalfa I have seen (hay, alfalfa cubes) typically runs about 14% protein. In my opinion and from my experience, that is too high to allow grazing for more than a short time - 30 minutes to an hour. Too much food source of that range of protein can result in founder.

Founder occurs when a horse eats too much of a good thing and the body cannot handle the high proteins. Because of the high number of blood vessels in the foot, this results in "fever" in the foot. The fever can cause the laminae (the connective tissue) in the foot to deteriorate allowing the aptly named coffin bone to rotate downward. In severe cases the coffin bone can rotate to the point it protrudes through the sole of the foot.

Founder can also affect the connective tissue between the foot and the hoof. In severe cases, the entire hoof can come off because the tissue that holds it on has been destroyed.

Most grasses, unless heavily fertilized within the last 3 weeks, will run less than 9%. At that level, most horses can graze as much as they want and it won"t be a problem.

For me personally, I would be very leery of allowing horses to graze on alfalfa for a long period of time.

I would play it safe and swap with the cattle. Even though the grass field is short, its not so short they can"t graze it and you have hay available to supplement if needed.

Hope this helps.

toolman · Oct 11, 2014

What Nancy and the rest say, keep them off that alfalfa, too rich for horses. @to 3 inch grass is just fine fore horses.

Mike (WA) · Oct 11, 2014

Good advice from everyone.

Most folks don't expect to have pasture- they just tie the horse and feed hay. Horses new to each other will have problems when just turned out together. I suppose you could tether them in individual spots in the field, but it would simplify matters if they just tied to their own trailers, or "high-lined", and fed hay.

Dick2 · Oct 11, 2014

My Dad grew up in the horse era; he absolutely forbid ever feeding alfalfa to horses. They grazed in the grass pasture or ate dried grass hay.

As other have said, have the owners bring their own hay that the horses are used to. Just being moved in with strange horses and people is traumatic enough for the horses; a feed change would really complicate matters.

NoBite · Oct 11, 2014

I'd be surprised if the folks would permit their horses to simply be turned loose in a fenced field with strange horses, regardless of the grass/alfalfa situation! We trail ride often and would not think of doing that. Always bring our own hay and feed. YMMV. The grass field would be better if you do end up with grazing horses. They will enjoy the short grass quite a bit.

Spook · Oct 11, 2014

When we had horses, they had a definite pecking order. They really can be pretty nasty about it. Putting a bunch of strange horses together will result in fights.

Tx Jim · Oct 11, 2014

My vote would be keep all horses tied up eating hay brought by each owner. This method lessens land owners & trail ride organizers legal liability. Horses have the most sensitive digestive system of any other animal on earth and can colic or founder very easily.

John T · Oct 11, 2014

In my opinion, its just asking for trouble to turn a bunch of strange horses, each with different feed and eating habits, all together in a field of alfalfa. I've seen many trail riders and they all pack in their own feed and hay which their horses are accustomed to. I could envision a bunch of strange horses all together and little Marys horse gets sick or injured and there are hard feelings. If I were hosting it Id concentrate more on a good place to park their horse trailers maybe with some shelter and porta potties scattered about.

However its your place and your choice not ours.

John T NOT a horse expert by any means just sayin

JD Seller · Oct 11, 2014

Fellows you should ALL read the post more carefully!!!!

I did not say anything about turning the horses loose!!!

The horses will be tied or ground staked out. I am just worried about them getting loose and getting away. That is the only reason for them to be in a fenced in area.

The posters that have made positive subjections Thanks.

I will switch the cattle around today so that will give the grass a little break.

As for parking trailers and such that is already taken care of. There will be a area that they all will be pitching tents and have a big bond fire area. The girls have rented several Port-a-potties. They will have the shop's shower and bathroom to clean up in if they need a full bathroom.

The girls have done this before and have it pretty well organized. I was just asking about where to PUT the horses for overnight. I also know that most will bring their own feed. I also know that a darn horse will eat anything it is standing on.

Everyone involved enjoys this being a more "rustic" trail ride over the ones where you have a bunch of $100K horse trailers parked in rows. I have 15 hitching blocks that I will be setting around where they will be camping. These are a 2 ft. x 2ft. x 6ft. 3300 lbs. concrete blocks with a steel 1 inch bar welded long ways for multiple tie locations.

So at no time with the horses be "turned loose" together. I am surprised that many of you think I would be STUPID enough to turn 15-20 strange horses loose together. I may not be a horse lover but I have been around a few an have had livestock my entire life. I would not turn 15-20 show calves in together either.

So everyone have a good weekend. We have cool but clear weather for today and rain coming in tomorrow. The rain we could use as we have not had any for several weeks now. It is getting pretty dusty.

Tx Jim · Oct 11, 2014

(quoted from post at 09:36:43 10/11/14) Fellows you should ALL read the post more carefully!!!!

I did not say anything about turning the horses loose!!!

The horses will be tied or ground staked out. I am just worried about them getting loose and getting away. That is the only reason for them to be in a fenced in area.
.

IMHO ground staking a horse or tying a horse on a long rope is asking for a disaster. A rope burn to a horses rear pastern is nasty.

lee little · Oct 11, 2014

What Nancy said pretty much covers it correctly. About all I will add is that a horse can graze closer than a cow because they have upper teeth in front. They will be able to get plenty of grass even if the cows have picked it down.

David G · Oct 11, 2014

JD,

I would also be concerned, and think it would be better to put them in a field that is mowed or grazed down and give them grass hay. The ability for a horse to handle that depends on what they have been getting and their age.

JD Seller · Oct 11, 2014

TxJim: What do you want us to do with the horses then???

We can't turn them out and you don't want them ground tied. So what Do you think would work????

Do I need to build 20 horse stalls in the next two weeks??? LOL

As you fellows can probably tell I really am not a fan of working with horses and horse people. People that have pleasure horses are a different breed than I am. We do not have a lot in common.

John T · Oct 11, 2014

Hey JD, I feel your pain lol Its hard to get the answers we want here at times, and consider the advice is offered FREE of charge so we have to take what we can get....But the the good gents do their best you included which is why I enjoy it here. Hope the ride works out well and all are safe.

Best wishes

Ol John T in Indiana

LAA · Oct 11, 2014

I would tell the people to bring their own feed and hay for the horses, they should not expect the host to provide hay. As stupid as most so called horse people are about their precious hayburners they should bring their own anyway. My Grandfather used to feed work horses silage and corn stover, cottonseed hulls, you name it, most of the hoorah about what kind of hay a horse can eat is garbage, horses are smart enough to pick around bad hay just like a cow.

old · Oct 11, 2014

I have a couple horses I tie out from time to time and never had much if any problems. Big thing it if they are trained to do so. I tie them to heavy tires so they can get around but not be able to get up and run due to the tires dragging behind them

Greg_Ky · Oct 11, 2014

JD, do you have a couple of trees u you could string a rope between and tie the horses to that (Pickett Line) with lead ropes and avoid leg injuries. The wife has had friends on overnites the have had injuries with ground tieing. No alfalfa just grass for foreage. HTH Greg.

John T · Oct 11, 2014

At the RV horse camps in this area a dude will stretch a tie line with loops and the individual horses have their tie spot each a decent distance from the neighboring horse. Seems to work okay HOWEVER IM NOTTTTTTTTT A HORSE LOVER I like things with a motor lol

John T

Tx Jim · Oct 11, 2014

(quoted from post at 10:25:15 10/11/14) TxJim: What do you want us to do with the horses then???

We can't turn them out and you don't want them ground tied. So what Do you think would work????

Do I need to build 20 horse stalls in the next two weeks??? LOL

As you fellows can probably tell I really am not a fan of working with horses and horse people. People that have pleasure horses are a different breed than I am. We do not have a lot in common.

Have horse owners tie their horses to their trailers with a hay bag full of hay is what I'd suggest. That's the way it was done when I went on overnight trail rides and my horse survived..

aFORDable · Oct 11, 2014

Simple--- The horse owners bring their own feed/hay and that takes the possibility of feed liability off you. Also, have them tie to their trailer or they may run a tie line from trailer to trailer at their liking. Then, any accidents/injuries to horses is their responsibility. You are trying to do too much. After all, it is only for one night. I am a horse person and would not ground stake a horse or turn my horses in with other horses. That's asking for trouble. Hope this helps.

NoBite · Oct 11, 2014

(quoted from post at 16:01:54 10/11/14) Simple--- The horse owners bring their own feed/hay and that takes the possibility of feed liability off you. Also, have them tie to their trailer or they may run a tie line from trailer to trailer at their liking. Then, any accidents/injuries to horses is their responsibility. You are trying to do too much. After all, it is only for one night. I am a horse person and would not ground stake a horse or turn my horses in with other horses. That's asking for trouble. Hope this helps.

Exactly right! +1

JD Seller · Oct 11, 2014

OKAY fellows. I still do not get where people think I ever said to let the horses run together. Never posted that anywhere.

I have hauled the Grand Daughter's horses on several of these rides this summer. At every single one of them they have 95% of the horses tied with a long lead so they can graze over night. Not my choice or recommendation. I have absolutely ZERO to do with them doing this.

Also at 3 of the 4 rides they have gone on someone's horse got loose over night.

So here is what I am going to do.

1) I am going to have them set up in the alfalfa field. It has the best fences that are 100% horse tight. It also has the best camp site.

2) I will mow the alfalfa this coming week and chop it. I am going to set the mower real close so it will be clipped at about an inch. So for the ride there will be about zero alfalfa standing. I have decided to rotate that field to grain for next year.

3) There will be hitching post type of ties for those that want them. I have the portable blocks that have a rod/rail at about four feet to tie a horse to.

I just needed someone to chime in with the facts that alfalfa standing is too rich a feed for most horses. I sold alfalfa hay to horse people for 12-15 years it was quite the rage in the 1980s-1990s. That was why I was asking about it.

IF we have trouble it will just make it the last ride we have here. Not a real issue. The girls can ride their horses here and stay home.

Daryl in PA · Oct 12, 2014

I wouldn't saddle up for a 5 mile ride!

Dean Olson · Oct 12, 2014

I grew up with horses. Happy for the experience but never again. We bought horses at the sale barn, "fixed" them and resold. We didn't have much money or pasture so the horses got ground staked out all the time. County road ditches, front yard, where ever we had some feed.

Ground stakes are fine for horses properly trained.

We didn't have much pasture and the fences were poor. Upon occasion we'd have a horse get out into the neihbors alfalfa field. NEVER had one founder or get sick. Even then we "knew" that the protein level of alfalfa would burn up kidneys and founder a horse.

I'd put them in the field with the good fence and let the owners worry about the feed. Given a short enough rope I don't think they can eat enough to get into trouble.

I applaud your helping young people persue positive endevers.

NoBite · Oct 12, 2014

(quoted from post at 06:11:55 10/12/14) I wouldn't saddle up for a 5 mile ride!

Now THAT'S funny!

To the OP, I bet all goes well and the kids have a good time. Great hobby.

T in NE · Oct 12, 2014

You and I: Why pay $5 for a bucket when we've got this old oil bucket we can clean up and use?

horsepeople: Why use this old oil bucket when this special bucket from TSC will do the same job for $50?

Calling for some Horse knowledge about grazing???

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