Cleaning ourselves to death.....kind of long.....

NCWayne

Well-known Member
I just read the post below about the health inspector and the pies. That said it has always amazed me how many people can get sick doing the same thing others do without ever getting sick. It's gotten to the point that now our illustrious leaders have taken it upon themselves to try to protect EVERYONE, from EVERYTHING.

The thing is we all know that that will never happen. Regardless of how clean anything appears to be, to the naked eye, it's the microscopic germs that get you. It's funny, reading some of the replies to the other post in regard to the cleanliness of people's kitchens, restaurant kitchens, and the like, because ALL that inspector can see is what he can see with his eyes. True he might be able to use some sort of device to tell whether this or that is REALLY clean, but that's only one spot. Too, like others stated below, the second the inspector leaves nothing he saw, tested, or says really means anything.

Think about it, with all of the family reunions, bake sales, etc, etc, etc that have happened in this country over the past years, that just you know of personally, how many people do you know that got sick from eating there. Yes, Aunt Bee's kitchen might not be the cleanest place in the world, but she makes a mean apple pie, and no one has been made sick, nor killed from it in the past 40 years she has been bringing them. On the other hand, how many people do you know that have been made sick by commercial kitchens, restaurants, food trucks, etc that were just inspected and passed with flying colors. I'd just about bet that most folks know more people made sick by the 'inspected' food/establishments than they do by 'Aunt Bee's' pies.

Outside of the food angle, how about the kids that got sick at the petting zoo? Out of say 10,000 kids that petted the animals, only say 10 got sick. If you look at the folks that took care of the animals and are around them 24/7, NONE of them ever had any problem.

That all said, has anyone ever thought why a lot of this happens? I think I would have to agree with an article I read years ago. The premise of the piece was that we are cleaning ourselves to death. Think about it, when you go get an inoculation against the flu, or whatever, what happens is that you are basically given a small dose of the virus so your body will have them inside and be able to make antibodies to fight them. The problem now days is that most folks are never around anything from the animal world beyond their cat or dog, or the squirrel that they just watched climb the tree in their backyard. In other words they have very little to no exposure to even a small dose of the the viruses, germs, or whatever for their body to begin forming a defense. Then, when they final do have contact, like a petting zoo, they are supplied with antibacterial wipes, and the like to insure that they kill off anything they happened to touch.

The end result of this is that most folks bodies never have the opportunity to develop even the slightest immunity to the things that they come into contact with. Say for instance it takes 10 germs to actually make you sick, unless you have some sort of immunity, but only two for your body to react and develop an immunity. So, you touch something that has say 5 germs on it, and in an ideal situation your body fights it and gets stronger. BUT to be 'safe' you break out the antibacterial wipes and kill all of the germs.

The next time you touch an object it has all 10 germs on it, and guess what, this time you don't have the wipes available to use, AND YOU GET SICK. The thing is you didn't really get sick just because you touched the 10 germs, you got sick because the last time you touched just enough to develop an immunity, you short circuited your bodies natural defenses with your antibacterial wipes.

The same holds with the food, or anything else that can make us sick. Aunt Bee's kitchen might only stay 70% clean but, as you eat her food, your body takes in those germs and will begin to develop the antibodies needed to combat the food poisioning you'd otherwise get when you eat that greasy burger off Mo's food truck at lunch.

In the end, cleanliness might be next to Godliness, but in reality cleanliness is like most other things, it's only good in moderation. Basically it's too much of a good thing, and can often be a bad thing, and might just give you the opportunity to get a lot closer to God when the germ you catch, because your body has no immunity, leaves you knocking at the Pearly Gates...

Yes, I know that's probably a bit of an extreme view, but that was the gist of the article I read, and in my own observations it really makes sense, and nearly always holds true....Heck the way I live I've got to admit I'm probably a walking example because the things I do sometimes, according to the experts, ought to have made me sick, or killed me, many times over. Now, what are your thoughts?
 
the flu shot..ugh..walked into the dr office today at 10,felt good,nothing wrong,just a general checkup required by my ins,dr says ,you had a flu shot,i haven't,the nurse will give ya one.so she does,ive had the sh$%s since noon,coincidence?nah,couldnt be
 
(quoted from post at 01:37:09 10/07/14) the flu shot..ugh..walked into the dr office today at 10,felt good,nothing wrong,just a general checkup required by my ins,dr says ,you had a flu shot,i haven't,the nurse will give ya one.so she does,ive had the sh$%s since noon,coincidence?nah,couldnt be

Yes, it is a coincidence. There is nothing in the flu nnalert that can make you sick, actually it is impossible. If you started to feel sick you were already getting sick before the shot.

For the OP, I tend to agree with mild exposure to certain germs, viruses and/or bateria can be a benefit, you just won't know which ones to pick and choose from. To be on the safe side I would bet on keeping things clean and proper is better than the latter. I would definitely hope people wash hands after things like using the bathroom, dont sneeze into the air, dont use hands to wipe noses or cover coughing. Would you like a hand shake from one of those people? I guess what you don't know can't hurt right?
 
The medical researchers know that kids that play in just plain dirt (not in a sand box), are healthier than kids that don't get to play & dig in the dirt.

The theory is that micro-organisms in dirt help build a stronger immune system that actually carries into adult life. Maybe that's why I'm still around? I did a lot of digging in dirt when I was little. Folks couldn't affort to get me a little shovel so I made do with one of Mom's old mixing spoons to do the digging. That and a stick and a rock were my play toys in the 1930's.
 
When I was a kid. I
Played in the oil soaked sand at farm garage.
Drank out of the water hose.
Swam in the creek. Dead cow upstream.
Ate with dirty hands.
Had some kind of chemical on me most of the time.
Ran around with no jacket. When it was cold.
Swapped food and drinks with my friends.
Did all the things that the experts claim are bad for you. Never really got sick until I joined the Navy. From all the shots that were supposed to protect you.Stopped taking flu shots years ago. They always made me sick. Haven't had the flu since then.

According to all the experts. I should have been dead years ago.
 
I read the the post also. This weekend we are going to Blain Pa to a tractor show. There will be soup made over a fire in old black kettles, fresh sausage sandwiches. Homemade pies even shoo-fly pie,fresh pressed apple cider,bison burgers chicken bbq,and funnel cakes. Sorry guys you just made me hungary.
 
(quoted from post at 21:54:46 10/06/14) I just read the post below about the health inspector and the pies. That said it has always amazed me how many people can get sick doing the same thing others do without ever getting sick. It's gotten to the point that now our illustrious leaders have taken it upon themselves to try to protect EVERYONE, from EVERYTHING.

The thing is we all know that that will never happen. Regardless of how clean anything appears to be, to the naked eye, it's the microscopic germs that get you. It's funny, reading some of the replies to the other post in regard to the cleanliness of people's kitchens, restaurant kitchens, and the like, because ALL that inspector can see is what he can see with his eyes. True he might be able to use some sort of device to tell whether this or that is REALLY clean, but that's only one spot. Too, like others stated below, the second the inspector leaves nothing he saw, tested, or says really means anything.

Think about it, with all of the family reunions, bake sales, etc, etc, etc that have happened in this country over the past years, that just you know of personally, how many people do you know that got sick from eating there. Yes, Aunt Bee's kitchen might not be the cleanest place in the world, but she makes a mean apple pie, and no one has been made sick, nor killed from it in the past 40 years she has been bringing them. On the other hand, how many people do you know that have been made sick by commercial kitchens, restaurants, food trucks, etc that were just inspected and passed with flying colors. I'd just about bet that most folks know more people made sick by the 'inspected' food/establishments than they do by 'Aunt Bee's' pies.

Outside of the food angle, how about the kids that got sick at the petting zoo? Out of say 10,000 kids that petted the animals, only say 10 got sick. If you look at the folks that took care of the animals and are around them 24/7, NONE of them ever had any problem.

That all said, has anyone ever thought why a lot of this happens? I think I would have to agree with an article I read years ago. The premise of the piece was that we are cleaning ourselves to death. Think about it, when you go get an inoculation against the flu, or whatever, what happens is that you are basically given a small dose of the virus so your body will have them inside and be able to make antibodies to fight them. The problem now days is that most folks are never around anything from the animal world beyond their cat or dog, or the squirrel that they just watched climb the tree in their backyard. In other words they have very little to no exposure to even a small dose of the the viruses, germs, or whatever for their body to begin forming a defense. Then, when they final do have contact, like a petting zoo, they are supplied with antibacterial wipes, and the like to insure that they kill off anything they happened to touch.

The end result of this is that most folks bodies never have the opportunity to develop even the slightest immunity to the things that they come into contact with. Say for instance it takes 10 germs to actually make you sick, unless you have some sort of immunity, but only two for your body to react and develop an immunity. So, you touch something that has say 5 germs on it, and in an ideal situation your body fights it and gets stronger. BUT to be 'safe' you break out the antibacterial wipes and kill all of the germs.

The next time you touch an object it has all 10 germs on it, and guess what, this time you don't have the wipes available to use, AND YOU GET SICK. The thing is you didn't really get sick just because you touched the 10 germs, you got sick because the last time you touched just enough to develop an immunity, you short circuited your bodies natural defenses with your antibacterial wipes.

The same holds with the food, or anything else that can make us sick. Aunt Bee's kitchen might only stay 70% clean but, as you eat her food, your body takes in those germs and will begin to develop the antibodies needed to combat the food poisioning you'd otherwise get when you eat that greasy burger off Mo's food truck at lunch.

In the end, cleanliness might be next to Godliness, but in reality cleanliness is like most other things, it's only good in moderation. Basically it's too much of a good thing, and can often be a bad thing, and might just give you the opportunity to get a lot closer to God when the germ you catch, because your body has no immunity, leaves you knocking at the Pearly Gates...

Yes, I know that's probably a bit of an extreme view, but that was the gist of the article I read, and in my own observations it really makes sense, and nearly always holds true....Heck the way I live I've got to admit I'm probably a walking example because the things I do sometimes, according to the experts, ought to have made me sick, or killed me, many times over. Now, what are your thoughts?

So do you have a problem with the filthy pigs that don't wash their hands before leaving the sh!thouse ?
 
Most people don't understand that there is good bacteria and bad bacteria! When you wash with antibacterial soap or wipes you are killing the good ones that are protecting you. The same rings true when you take antibiotics, you kill all the bacteria, then your body is vulnerable to to more sickness because it has to get the good to fight the bad. I was hospitalized for three days for a bacterial infection from eating undercooked chicken at a July 4th celebration. Was on strong antibiotics after getting out, once I stopped taking the meds I fell ill again so it was back on meds, what happened is that the antibiotics killed everything and left my body vulnerable to the bad. I don't like yogurt, so I got probiotics and took them to help my body.
 
My wife is a clean freak wash your hands all the time kinda person. I grew up on a farm. I wash my hands after I go to the bathroom, and when they are visibly dirty. I get sick about 1 time a winter, she gets sick 3 to 4 times...
 
People and animals build up immunities by being exposed to things a little bit at a time,even 'the
experts' now are saying anti-bacteria soap my cause more problems than it cures.Take a caged chicken thats been there all its life and drop it in a barnyard with lots of healthy chickens running around that were raised there and most likely the caged chicken will die of something in short order.
 
I don't like yogurt, so I got probiotics and took them to help my body.

You'd think if it's going to help you keep from getting sick, that you'd manage to choke some down...

"NyaH! I don't like yogurt! I'd rather lay in a hospital bed with an antibiotic IV in my arm for the rest of my life." Makes perfect sense to me. Not.
 
Dick2......That is exactly what I did as a kid. Had a favorite spoon dug little holes in the bank for garages etc. Man was I happy as a kid!!
 
I agree completely, we're way too clean for our own good! I think one of the biggest problems is antibiotic happy doctors, and the parents that run the kids to the dr. for every sneeze.

When people go to the dr. they expect to come away with something for their money and trouble. That usually is a prescription for antibiotics. Drs. feel obligated to provide them so the patient doesn't go looking for another dr. that will do something.

The result is a patient that is totally dependent on outside help that never develops their own immunity. Why should the body worry when everything comes in a pill?
 
I really gotta get out more....
When that hand sanitizer craze thing started,
I didn't have a clue what they were doing.
'dang these people sure use a lot of hand cream'
I suppose wiping my hands on my shop rag before I eat a sandwich is unacceptable nowadays too. Sure, a finger print now and then, but I'm really hungry...
Spending a lot of times in the woods, when my hands get into something truly nasty, washing them in/with dirt or leaves always worked pretty good. No more eh?
My outhouse doesn't have a sink so I guess I'm surely doomed.
 
A different angle I worked at a plant that broke eggs and sold them as bulk eggs or made additional products from them (dried eggs and such) Our breaker was an Italian job and many of the factory technicians that helped us with it were European. Some of our problems we had were driven by USDA requirements for sanitation. The manufacturer would explain that in Italy this is not a problem because we don't have to wash the machine 3 times a day like the idiot Americans. Basically many of the motors and gearboxes weren't sealed well enough for the washdowns that we used. Look at the amount of food borne illness in Europe and look at ours. I hear we have better sanitation but or incidence rate is higher. Although the Italians did admit that all their plants selling bulk liquid eggs were only allowed to sell pasteurized product where in the USA we can sell bulk liquid eggs raw.
 
Now you gone and done it! You've spoken the truth and mixed in some common sense to boot! How DARE you!

You must immediately get on your knees, beg forgivness, and send $50,000 to the feds for pennance. (smile) (chuckle)
 
Some of us have been in other countries where open ditches caring sewage to a bigger ditch eventually to the ocean. I can't remember anyone getting sick eating the food in these towns next to military bases. Only sickness was from drinking too much hooch. I think we are too clean, and the least little thing that gets into our body makes us sick Stan
 
Sanitizers kill 99% of bacteria, thus leaving the 1% of bacteria that are really tough to re-breed. We end up advancing the genetics of the bad stuff.

Similar process happening in other area: google "Super Weeds". Monsanto and du pont are crying all the way to the bank.
 
We had an aunt Bea that rolled her pie crust on the floor because her counters were such a piled up mess. The did make a good pie.

I'm sitting in the doctors office right now waiting on him. I came in early for a heart test. The gal doing the test is firmly convinced Ebola here is a type of terrorist attack. Sure would be easy to affect lots of people and cause a scramble.
 
(quoted from post at 04:26:30 10/07/14)
(quoted from post at 21:54:46 10/06/14) I just read the post below about the health inspector and the pies. That said it has always amazed me how many people can get sick doing the same thing others do without ever getting sick. It's gotten to the point that now our illustrious leaders have taken it upon themselves to try to protect EVERYONE, from EVERYTHING.

The thing is we all know that that will never happen. Regardless of how clean anything appears to be, to the naked eye, it's the microscopic germs that get you. It's funny, reading some of the replies to the other post in regard to the cleanliness of people's kitchens, restaurant kitchens, and the like, because ALL that inspector can see is what he can see with his eyes. True he might be able to use some sort of device to tell whether this or that is REALLY clean, but that's only one spot. Too, like others stated below, the second the inspector leaves nothing he saw, tested, or says really means anything.

Think about it, with all of the family reunions, bake sales, etc, etc, etc that have happened in this country over the past years, that just you know of personally, how many people do you know that got sick from eating there. Yes, Aunt Bee's kitchen might not be the cleanest place in the world, but she makes a mean apple pie, and no one has been made sick, nor killed from it in the past 40 years she has been bringing them. On the other hand, how many people do you know that have been made sick by commercial kitchens, restaurants, food trucks, etc that were just inspected and passed with flying colors. I'd just about bet that most folks know more people made sick by the 'inspected' food/establishments than they do by 'Aunt Bee's' pies.

Outside of the food angle, how about the kids that got sick at the petting zoo? Out of say 10,000 kids that petted the animals, only say 10 got sick. If you look at the folks that took care of the animals and are around them 24/7, NONE of them ever had any problem.

That all said, has anyone ever thought why a lot of this happens? I think I would have to agree with an article I read years ago. The premise of the piece was that we are cleaning ourselves to death. Think about it, when you go get an inoculation against the flu, or whatever, what happens is that you are basically given a small dose of the virus so your body will have them inside and be able to make antibodies to fight them. The problem now days is that most folks are never around anything from the animal world beyond their cat or dog, or the squirrel that they just watched climb the tree in their backyard. In other words they have very little to no exposure to even a small dose of the the viruses, germs, or whatever for their body to begin forming a defense. Then, when they final do have contact, like a petting zoo, they are supplied with antibacterial wipes, and the like to insure that they kill off anything they happened to touch.

The end result of this is that most folks bodies never have the opportunity to develop even the slightest immunity to the things that they come into contact with. Say for instance it takes 10 germs to actually make you sick, unless you have some sort of immunity, but only two for your body to react and develop an immunity. So, you touch something that has say 5 germs on it, and in an ideal situation your body fights it and gets stronger. BUT to be 'safe' you break out the antibacterial wipes and kill all of the germs.

The next time you touch an object it has all 10 germs on it, and guess what, this time you don't have the wipes available to use, AND YOU GET SICK. The thing is you didn't really get sick just because you touched the 10 germs, you got sick because the last time you touched just enough to develop an immunity, you short circuited your bodies natural defenses with your antibacterial wipes.

The same holds with the food, or anything else that can make us sick. Aunt Bee's kitchen might only stay 70% clean but, as you eat her food, your body takes in those germs and will begin to develop the antibodies needed to combat the food poisioning you'd otherwise get when you eat that greasy burger off Mo's food truck at lunch.

In the end, cleanliness might be next to Godliness, but in reality cleanliness is like most other things, it's only good in moderation. Basically it's too much of a good thing, and can often be a bad thing, and might just give you the opportunity to get a lot closer to God when the germ you catch, because your body has no immunity, leaves you knocking at the Pearly Gates...

Yes, I know that's probably a bit of an extreme view, but that was the gist of the article I read, and in my own observations it really makes sense, and nearly always holds true....Heck the way I live I've got to admit I'm probably a walking example because the things I do sometimes, according to the experts, ought to have made me sick, or killed me, many times over. Now, what are your thoughts?

So do you have a problem with the filthy pigs that don't wash their hands before leaving the sh!thouse ?
ope.
 
I agree. I haven't had a flu shot since I left the Marine Corps. There it wasn't an option And every time I had one, I came down with a whopping case of flu a day or two later.

I think, too, that people are killing their own immune systems by being so obsessed with sanitation. I'm not a slob, but I've also never used any of the anti-bacterial bottles or wipes that you stumble over every time you walk into a store, or even our church.

In 1987, I got food poisoning from eating at McDonalds in Fort Morgan, Colorado. I haven't had an illness since that could be blamed onto lack of sanitation, or whatever.
 
Around 1998 when I first saw anti-bacterial hand soap I thought about tuberculosis strains that have become resistant to the antibiotics that used to kill them. I thought all bacteria in our drinking water will become immune to anything that will kill it as we slowly feed it with chemicals that are supposed to kill it.It will adapt to survive. Whats wrong with washing your hands with soap as we have for years ? Why all of a sudden does soap have to be anti-bacterial?
 
I think a lot of questions, about clean, arises when we remove our whites, and other light colored items, from the washing machine, and see they still have stains??
Wife has tried virtually every washing detergent with same results. Of course Clorox can be used on some items.
I think the problem is somewhat created by EPA removing certain cleaning ingredients or today's fabrics have changed.
I even started a thread about this, some time back, and was informed it had been discussed many times, so my family is not alone.
 
I think I read somewhere the average human stomach has about a trillion bacteria in it. If the food looks good, I eat it no matter where I am. Not really a clean freak by any means and I can remember back over 60 years.
When we milked cow if anybody got sick it was only for a day or two.
 
Good old days? Sounds like todays headlines.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/health/e-coli-outbreaks-fast-facts/


http://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/typhoidfever/
 
(quoted from post at 02:02:29 10/07/14)
(quoted from post at 01:37:09 10/07/14) the flu shot..ugh..walked into the dr office today at 10,felt good,nothing wrong,just a general checkup required by my ins,dr says ,you had a flu shot,i haven't,the nurse will give ya one.so she does,ive had the sh$%s since noon,coincidence?nah,couldnt be

Yes, it is a coincidence. There is nothing in the flu nnalert that can make you sick, actually it is impossible. If you started to feel sick you were already getting sick before the shot.

WebMD says that you can get sick from a flu shot. They call it a "side effect" of the flu shot. http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/flu-guide/fact-sheet-vaccines?page=3 But if you ask me...

Anytime someone says they are going to give you a shot to prevent you from getting "fever, muscle aches, head aches, runny nose, nausea, and a sore throat;" and then that shot causes you to have "fever, muscle aches, head aches, runny nose, nausea, and a sore throat," as a "side effect," then I would say the shot makes you sick.



As for the health inspectors and the OP-

I had to take classes when I was a fast food manager in Allegheny County, PA. Allegheny County, PA has the ACHD (Allegheny County Health Dept) which does periodic and random inspections. They also do mandatory testing of certain things. However, some of the things they test, are not the cleanliness of the store, but rather the contact transfer created by employees. They also dip employees hands to check for bacteria, to see what they are transferring to food. There is lots of redundancy in the systems, but, the main point is procedure and best safety practices.

The things that you can get violations for are more centered about how food is handled and stored. Is hot food kept hot enough? Is cold food kept cold enough? If your warming trays aren't above 140*F then, it is not a killer of bacteria, but a warm host for bacteria to thrive. If your coolers are at 50*F, instead of 42*F, then you are again giving bacteria to place to breed and multiply. A little bit of bacteria is always going to be there, but, if your food handling practices invite the bacteria to colonize and put up mini-malls and suburbs; then someone is going to get very sick or possibly die. It is NO JOKE. Hand sanitizer is also no joke, as well as hand washing. Everyday, a meat inspection sheet had to be filled out, showing the average meat internal cooked temperatures, and at the bottom of every sheet, there are check boxes for certain things, like, "Is all your equipment in good working order and keeping proper safe temperatures? yes [] no []" and the most important- "Are all your employees healthy? yes[] no[]" Now, go on a rant and complain about how kids these days are too whiny and don't know what hard work is. Then, look around the back of the restaurant at all the people who came to work with runny noses and coughing. Do you want him to wipe his dripping nose with the back of his hand and then reach into the bin of shredded lettuce for your burger? Or do you want him to take a few days off until his nose quits dripping? Oh, and which box do you check on the HASS under the question, "are all your employees healthy?" yes [] OR no []


Generally speaking, when it comes to a home kitchen, people are not dealing with massive stockpiles of ingredients and raw foods, and refrigerators that you can walk into. You are not cooking things in bulk, repetitively, all day long. Therefore, chances are, you are going to take your time and clean up messes and keep everything in order and you generally are going to be ok. However, there is always a chance. Does anyone want to take a chance to make a child sick?
 

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