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Ot - quick rant

J

JRSutton

Well-known Member
We had our little town fair this weekend "farm days" it's called.

Our 4h club was there with our animals, and we were selling some homemade pies to raise a little money.

... that is, until the friendly neighborhood Department of Health inspector came strolling by.

They told us we can't sell pies without a permit, and we can only get a permit if the pies are baked in a commercial, inspected kitchen...

They decided to "let it slide" this one time, but we can't do it again.

There's a lot going on these days that makes me sad for our country. A lot of big issues.

This isn't a big issue, but I have to say, THIS really hit me more than a lot of those bigger issues.

Our government won't let our kids sell apple pies in the middle of new england at a fall fair.

I guess it makes the world a safer place... I guess... But it just feels so wrong. It's depressing!
 
Makes one wonder when they'll start outlawing cooking for ones own family at home altogether
 
Perhaps you should sell the pies a decorative item and not mention the quality of the taste.

We have similar situation around my area but all you need is an educated individual in safety and contamination. That is, the person is certified, not the kitchen. What good is a certified kitchen if the individual using it doesn't know a thing about contamination.

If you get that certified person, then you have a pie baking party and get twice the bang out of a traditional activity.
 
Can't eat Grannies pies but we let anyone with a disease (name left off starts with an E) fly on in here !
 
Well, it's a matter of public health, so I understand. He could probably tell you horror stories, about stuff sold to mothers and kids, make your hair stand on end.
He was doing you a big favor, I hope you appreciate that.
Here in Mo., we have some sort of system, in place, I see lots of food, burgers, etc. sold at tractor shows, with a big sticker "It is not approved for senior citizens." or some such. I'm thinking there is some sort of one-time small-scale exemption in place.
 
Here in Michigan they passed a law that protects cottage food industry. Something you may want to pass along to a friendly legislator in your district. We have to take the time to fight this sort of unreasoning regulation. I know I have mentioned this before but we have a situation where people have thrown up tar paper shacks on farm land and moved into them. As a result our twp has implemented a knee jerk zoning regulation that eventually banned barns on ag zoned land. I would not be surprised to see our cottage food industry law being abused with the same result.
A reasonable position.
 
Our volunteer fire dept. Has had a bullhead feed for 72 years. Local people used to make the pies and salads. Health dept. Last year steps in and says they can't do that. They must make everything on site or buy it. It drove the cost up considerable. Its a shame that the govt. Thinks us dummies would just die without them protecting us from ourselves. Tragic
 
It's because the gov't can't collect their lion's share of taxes. Pies made in a commercial bakery would be taxed at the source and at final sale. Homemade pies aren't under their control. It's all about the control.......
 
He was doing you a big favor, I hope you appreciate that.

I'm not sure if you're serious about this or not.

If you are, please don't take this personally, but BULL...oney.
 
That sucks! I'd just sell 'tickest' for a "FREE" pie. Go to the next booth give them your 'ticket' and pick out your 'free' pie.
 
The board of health shuts places down at flea markets and festivals. They aren't picking on just little kids. This had been going on for many years. Too many cases of food poisoning.
 
I was at one of our church festivals one time and the county commissioner who was up for re-election showed up and started campaigning. He was actually standing near the head of the food line and 'welcoming' people to the festival as if he had something to do with it (he didn't even go to our church). The leaders of the festival took him aside and told him he was welcome at the festival but we'd prefer if he did his campaigning somewhere else. He left. It wasn't 45 minutes later the county inspector shows up to inspect (and shut down) the kiddy ride (we had rented one of those moon walk things). We had a special permit to serve the food but if we hadn't I have no doubt the county health inspector would have been there too. I voted against that guy that year!
 
Wife and daughter bake and sell at local farm market. All goods have a label showing ingredients and a line indicating made in a kitchen not inspected by health department. Same with stuff she takes to bake sales. Vending foodstuffs at places like a 4-H rabbit show can get a little dicy too. Have taken to buying a stack of commercial pizzas and selling by the piece. Too bad it has come down to that.
 
Actually, I disagree. If he is sent out there to enforce a food service law regarding licensing and he decided to exercise some discretion and NOT shut you down and NOT cite you...yeah, that would be a fella trying to do you a favor. I would say thank you and look into the law before I did it again. Either work to get the law changed or work with a local bakery to get certified product and sell that.
 
We see for the common good. I call it BS. Reason being what do they do when Burger King or McDonalds give out contaminated food? Nothing is what they do. These companies have it set up that if I sue them I have to sue their employee. I spent 4 days in the hospital about 4 years ago and it ended up everyone pointed fingers at their minority help who couldn't or wouldn't speak English. They got new help and these same minorities went to McDonalds and got jobs then proceeded to give their customers food poisoning. So you ended up with two fast food places serving contaminated food causing illnesses and not a thing could be done about it. Very seldom to you hear of anybody getting sick at church suppers or at county fairs in comparison to the above mentioned problems. These foreign kids don't speak English and you can preach all you want about washing your hands but I bet it goes in one ear and out the other.
 
SJRSutton,
Seems ridiculous... been buying items at bake sales and eating at church potluck dinners or meals put on as fundraisers all my life (not dead yet... never been sickened from eating at one either).
 
I totally sympathize. Nobody that I know of ever got sick from eating Grandma's pies, cakes, cookies, or any other of her cooking. Families have been raised on home cooking.
Unfortunately, there are abuses.....and since somebody got the willies about how some food was handled, we go to the other extreme to prevent that. Food safety education, licensing, permits, certifications, and the like.
BUT.....the red taps is only as good as the workers handle sanitation issues.....
I was at a fair with my girlfriend. We went to a stand that she goes to every year for what was supposed to be a great sausage sandwich. The kid waiting on the counter was wearing gloves, as "required", wrapping the sandwiches, and wiping the sweat off his head - WITH THE GLOVES!!!!!!!!! Hmmmmmmm....where did safe food handling practices go? I complained to the manager (for all the good it did), and refused the sandwich. Another time, I was at a flea market. There was a food stand. Some dirty looking man wearing a cook's hat and apron came out from behind the grill. Still wearing gloves, he picked up a napkin and loudly blew his nose on it - STILL WEARING GLOVES. Went back to the grill and continued cooking - NOT MY BREAKFAST, THANK YOU!.
Need I say that I do NOT eat out any more than is absolutely necessary???
The moral of the story is that no matter how good of a show they put on, we still are getting food contaminated with sweat, saliva, and BOOGERS!!! YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll take Grandma/mom's cooking ANY DAY before I trust some grunt in a fast food joint to handle my food.
 
I agree its BS. We had our local rice festival this week . Wall to wall carney's selling fried everything.Bet my last dollar none of them were inspected by any health dept.
 
well that's just it: BUYER BEWARE.

If I'm at a local fair buying a pie made by a clean looking 4H mom, wrapped neatly in clean plastic wrap, I KNOW I'm taking my chances, but I'm willing to take those chance.

I don't HAVE to buy it. I COULD all on my own decide against it.

If there's some smelly slob with out of state plates, who has a few hundred pies piled in the back of his 70's van, I also know I'm taking my chances, and I'll choose NOT to take those chances.

I realize germs don't discriminate, but I guess I like the freedom to take my chances.

"Safe" is a good thing, but there's a point where TOTALLY safe requires giving up just a little too much freedom.

I'd say we've crossed that line here.

Everywhere I turn lately I'm hitting some government regulation.

This one just made me reach that point where I want to scream "ENOUGH".
 
Here at the local "fests" all the food trucks/ stands have a local food service permit. The local health department inspects them and issues a 1 to 5 day food permit. I agree that some of this is over done, but rember the tyenol / cyanide ? Bad people everywhere, times change and not for the better. my 2 cents joe
 
Welcome to the long arm of our government.
Two years ago, the person in charge of our county 4H food stand contracted with my mom for her to bake kolachies to be sold at the 4H food stand. The first morning of the fair, the health department came in and stopped the sale of the pastries. In order for my mom to sell her kolachies, she would have to do all the baking entirely inside the food stand. Not only that, but he has since made them tear out a brand new two-compartment sink and made them install a three-compartment sink. They also had to buy another commercial refrigerator. Every year, the food inspector stops in and demands that there be more "upgrades".
I realize that food poisoning is serious and anybody who has had a severe case of food poisoning would probably agree with what the food inspector has been doing, but my mom's kolachies have never killed anybody.
 
Let me give you a different perspective.

As a Master Plumber I've been in thousands of kitchens over the past 30 years. Believe me when I tell you that you wouldn't eat what comes out of some of them no matter how good it looks.

Even back in the day at the pot luck dinners it was pretty much known who ran a clean kitchen. Small town everybody new everything. Not so much today.

If you knew how poorly kept most restaurant kitchens are, you'd never eat out.
 
(quoted from post at 19:26:14 10/06/14) well that's just it: BUYER BEWARE.

If I'm at a local fair buying a pie made by a clean looking 4H mom, wrapped neatly in clean plastic wrap, I KNOW I'm taking my chances, but I'm willing to take those chance.

I don't HAVE to buy it. I COULD all on my own decide against it.

If there's some smelly slob with out of state plates, who has a few hundred pies piled in the back of his 70's van, I also know I'm taking my chances, and I'll choose NOT to take those chances.

I realize germs don't discriminate, but I guess I like the freedom to take my chances.

"Safe" is a good thing, but there's a point where TOTALLY safe requires giving up just a little too much freedom.

I'd say we've crossed that line here.

Everywhere I turn lately I'm hitting some government regulation.

This one just made me reach that point where I want to scream "ENOUGH".
Click to expand...

Well said.
I help out at horse shows at a local barn in a food booth that a mom runs out of the grain room. People are grateful for hot (or cold) food during a long day watching their kids ride. No we don't wear gloves but the mom uses the same care in cooking she would in her own kitchen. We've got crock pots going all day, grills cooking burgers and everyone can see right there how the food is prepared. Compare that to ordering at a restaurant where you have no idea how the food was handled before it hit your table.

As Dean Olson also stated, there's no guarantees with a "health dept inspected" kitchen anyway. How often does an inspector hit a commercial place? Once? Twice a year? They can check proper temperature for refrigeration, storage, etc. But they ain't there every day watching the people like a hawk.

It's a false sense of security just to think the place is safe because it's been inspected. You have to go by reputation, experience as well.
 
I agree that this is BS! Just remember there is an election this year. Make your vote count!
 

Next time, maybe you should RAFFLE them off..or is it even illegal to have a Pie Auction at the Co. Fair anymore..???
( I have seen the SAME Pie sell 4 Times and for $100.00 EACH Time..(She was Purdy!)..!!

There MUST be a way to turn this guy's Head..!!!

Ron.
 
maybe we could all sell fund raising baked goods the way real estate auctions work, it is sold 'as is'. Lets face it, a commercial kitchen inspected 1 time per year might be dirty 364 days a year too. Who do they think is falling for this crap? Once big 'O' is gone, things might have a chance of changing back.
 
This summer Iowa and Minnesota had some problems with little kids picking up E-coli bacteria at one particular Petting Zoo exhibit that was traveling on the fair circuit. The animals were not kept clean and some kids were hospitalized in a number of counties. After that all the remaining fairs in Minnesota got much closer inspections. As you know if you crack down on one vendor, you are obligated to check everyone the same way.

Your inspector didn't shut you down or even ask you to change anything. He just gave you a friendly "Make sure there aren't any problems, and buy a permit" message. He probably had to give everyone the same message. I wouldn't read too much into it or get offended.

All fairs are going through the same thing, by next year they will have things their new permits procedures worked out. The permits are one way to insure that all vendors at least received a copy of the health codes and have agreed to follow them. Buy a ($25) permit next year, sign-off that you read the health code requirements, provide some adult supervision to insure that the kids are keeping things clean, and things will go smoothly. The alternative is to look for other events to sell pies at.
 
The permit is just more tax revenue. Probably costs more than they clear on the pies.

Some towns would come up with a scheme like this simply because the (connected) local baker doesn't like seeing someone else sell pies.
 
Put them out there with a free sign on them with a donation can nearby. Tell the d@#$+head to go figure out what the countries going to do about the Ebola virus pandemic and quit worrying about whats going on at the town fair.
 
actually - to be clear, we were given a friendly "we'll let it slide THIS time" warning - but with a stern "don't do it again".

To get permission from the government to sell our pies, we'd have to pay them. And pay them more than we make on the pies.

But, even that's not enough, we'd also have to have our pies made in a commercial/inspected kitchen. And that's going to cost even more than buying permission from the government.

In other words, we can't make them. We have to buy pies from a pie making business, and resell them.

As for looking for other events to sell pies at... that's the point. This is state wide, there are no other events we can sell pies at.

This is the smallest event we do, it's a real small, hometown kinda thing. If we can't sell them HERE, we can't sell them anywhere.

So, we'll never try selling pies again. The government wins. The world is now a safer place.

You want a home made apple pie, bake it yourself in the secrecy of your own kitchen.

Just don't let the government catch you trying to share it with anybody else.
 
That doesn't prevent your 4H club from still having fund raisers. You just may have to do something besides selling homemade pies, or make all the pies in a central location that can be inspected. Your 4H club's central leadership has probably been seeing this for 20 years now. Your state 4H leadership is well aware of the rules and can offer you some effective changes or alternatives. Is your 4H club trying to teach kids that there is only one way to do things, or to adapt and thrive?

Schools moved away from homemade bake sales a generation ago. Vendors at farmers markets still sell homemade products, they just follow the rules to do it.
 
Get some pastery boxes. Put the pies in the boxes. Then just sell the boxes. You might try to sell at a non publicly advertised event (such as a farmers market). You will likely have less trouble and run ins with inspectors. My area farmers market never gets checked. Amish ladies sell thier pies, and cheerleaders sell thier fundraising baked goods. You can work around things like this, but I agree that it is getting tuffer and tuffer. One person has a problem, and a law gets passed and everyone has to suffer. We, as stupid Americans, can't look out for our own personal safety anymore, so we have to have someone do it for us. 2 options. You can play by the rules, or not. Its not going to get any better. Only going to get worse. Sooner or later we will all be in prison and they are already full.
 
Around Tx, lots of clubs have tables set up in front of stores selling baked goods.

Your health inspector would be run ragged trying to close them all down.
 
I've got some family members that run a cake baking business. It was actually surprising to me how easy it was to get a 'commercial kitchen'. I think the permits and such were about a hundred bucks including business licenses. They were in the same boat though on the commercial kitchen. In their case , the solution was renting the kitchen at a local day care at night. Health inspector stressed they had to be baked there, all the other work could be done at home.... Perhaps, in your situation, there would be a day care or some place with an inspected commercial kitchen that you could work out an arrangement with?
 
Simple. Stop selling pies. Just give them away. And a donation is appreciated. Wink. Wink. No sale. No problem. Nobody can stop anyone from giving stuff away.
 
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