- Thread starter mite-help
- Start date
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
Wouldn't 180 be BDC?
Wisconsin Cowman
Member
Sure can if you have number six on TDC when you installed the pump. Had someone do that on a Oliver 1855 it did try to run.
thanks for response--Was wondering if it would even try to run if timed 180* out or, as said-timed to #6 cyl. this engine will start [with help from start fluid-actually sounds like hitting pretty good-but dark smoke will burn your eyes. This is a 6.8 JD industrial engine, with new pump/injectors [installed by persons unknown] Auction deal] so I know nothing about it. I did pin the standyne pump-Pin flywheel. Thinking it would not even run if it wasn't #1 position, went no further. will start all over by verifying #1. [just when I think I know it all--LOL-]
curtis larson
Member
Have you been working on the pump/removed/ Why do you think it is out of time?
onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
No, 180 out would still be TDC, only on the end of the exhaust stroke and the beginning of the intake stroke.
BDC would make it pump 90 or 270 degrees out.
BDC would make it pump 90 or 270 degrees out.
I'm not gonna call absolute BS on this, but it would really surprise me, as I've seen quite a number of diesel engines that were not nearly that far out of time be impossible to start.
Maybe if you pulled it fast enough to get the engine up to 3/4 speed???
That being said, in the time it took you to post this and wait for results you could have pulled the valve cover (or #1 injector) and determined if it is timed to #1 or #6 TDC, corrected it if necessary, and been DONE with it!
Maybe if you pulled it fast enough to get the engine up to 3/4 speed???
That being said, in the time it took you to post this and wait for results you could have pulled the valve cover (or #1 injector) and determined if it is timed to #1 or #6 TDC, corrected it if necessary, and been DONE with it!
curtis larson
Member
A men to Bob
Pump 180 out? absolutely... engine 180 out, I don't think so.
I have done it on a 401BD Case 6 cylinder. Smoked like a coal powered train, had to use ether to get it running, terrible throttle response, no power.
I pulled the pump gear, turned the engine 360 degrees, and reinstalled the Inj pump gear. Started right up and runs good to this day.
I have done it on a 401BD Case 6 cylinder. Smoked like a coal powered train, had to use ether to get it running, terrible throttle response, no power.
I pulled the pump gear, turned the engine 360 degrees, and reinstalled the Inj pump gear. Started right up and runs good to this day.
Allan in NE
Well-known Member
Well, heck yes it'll run, but badly.
Allan
Allan
guido
Well-known Member
Hello mite help,
The engine will probably start on either, but I doubt it very much it would keep running, once the ether is taken away, if out of time 180* Now, if you feed it constant outside fuel, heck you can take the pump off and it will still run on anything that will burn in the cylinder, as long as you keep feeding the fuel in the intake,
Guido.
The engine will probably start on either, but I doubt it very much it would keep running, once the ether is taken away, if out of time 180* Now, if you feed it constant outside fuel, heck you can take the pump off and it will still run on anything that will burn in the cylinder, as long as you keep feeding the fuel in the intake,
Guido.
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
You must be talking pump rotation, not crankshaft.
I know it is possible because I have done it. The Only time I did it was on a IH 666. I had the injection pump off while I was rebuilding the TA. When I put the tractor back together I turned the engine to help line the clutch shaft back up. I thought I had counted the turns and was back on TDC on #1. I was not I had turned the crankshaft one full turn too many. The tractor started but smoked badly and had very little throttle control. It would not idle either.
The make it even worse I took the injection pump back off and took it back to the fellow that overhauled it. He ran it on his test stand and it worked perfectly. He then asked me if I was 100% sure I was back in time. That is when it dawned on me that I was out of time.
The make it even worse I took the injection pump back off and took it back to the fellow that overhauled it. He ran it on his test stand and it worked perfectly. He then asked me if I was 100% sure I was back in time. That is when it dawned on me that I was out of time.
onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
Yes
Arnold Layne
Member
I know the IH's will run, but that's about all.
Allan in NE
Well-known Member
With my luck, it seems like it happens about every time I put an injector pump on.
Twice last summer, and I had to pull the silly things back off and spin the pump a turn.
With the injector pump 180° out of phase, number one's fuel is simply being sent to cylinder #6 (which is the second half of the firing order). They'll run, but your first inclination is that the builder messed up the pump. :>)
A guy might yank the valve cover and assure the engine is on the proper compression stroke, but that's a heck of a lot of work. Easier to just slap it on there and try it; if it's wrong, twist 'er a turn.
Allan
Twice last summer, and I had to pull the silly things back off and spin the pump a turn.
With the injector pump 180° out of phase, number one's fuel is simply being sent to cylinder #6 (which is the second half of the firing order). They'll run, but your first inclination is that the builder messed up the pump. :>)
A guy might yank the valve cover and assure the engine is on the proper compression stroke, but that's a heck of a lot of work. Easier to just slap it on there and try it; if it's wrong, twist 'er a turn.
Allan
Allan in NE
Well-known Member
When the pump is 180° out, it is still injecting on the compression stroke, just the wrong cylinder.
Allan
Allan
Define 180 degrees out of time. Rotary injection pump on a John Deere runs at only half engine speed. If you flip it over 180 degrees it does not get 180 degrees out of time. That puts it 90 degrees out of time.
If you truly found a way to install the injection pump 180 degrees out of time - that would have the pump firing on the exhaust stroke of every cylinder. If youjust flipped the half-speed pump over and put it 90 degrees out of time - but somehow found a way to hook the correct lines to the same correct discharge ports (not really possible) - every cylinder would inject on the bottom of the power stroke and nothing would fire.
Now .. if you flip the pump over and hook the injector lines to the wrong ports -then I guess it's a crap shoot. Define what you are asking.
A pump upside down (90 degrees off) but with all the lines also reversed - i.e. . . #1 line hooked to #6 port, #5 line hooked to #2 port, #3 line hooked to #4 port, #6 line hooked to #1 port, and #2 line hooked to #5 port?? Seems to me it this would have every cyliner firing on the bottom of its exhaust stroke instead of the top of the compression stroke. Can't see how any cylinders would fire. What am I missing??
If you truly found a way to install the injection pump 180 degrees out of time - that would have the pump firing on the exhaust stroke of every cylinder. If youjust flipped the half-speed pump over and put it 90 degrees out of time - but somehow found a way to hook the correct lines to the same correct discharge ports (not really possible) - every cylinder would inject on the bottom of the power stroke and nothing would fire.
Now .. if you flip the pump over and hook the injector lines to the wrong ports -then I guess it's a crap shoot. Define what you are asking.
A pump upside down (90 degrees off) but with all the lines also reversed - i.e. . . #1 line hooked to #6 port, #5 line hooked to #2 port, #3 line hooked to #4 port, #6 line hooked to #1 port, and #2 line hooked to #5 port?? Seems to me it this would have every cyliner firing on the bottom of its exhaust stroke instead of the top of the compression stroke. Can't see how any cylinders would fire. What am I missing??
Hello Bob. the engine is in a large gen-set. It is several miles from my location. I know how to pull injector/valve cover to locate #1 cyl. won't be EASY. my question was==is it poss. to even run with--[engine timed to #6 cyl.?] THIS is how I should have asked question] Thanks for all response, guys. I see that in this unit, the easiest way to find out is to simply pin the pump & rotate engine 1 rev.
Hello jdemaris-I should have asked that question differently--meant will the engine even run @ all if pump is pinned for #1 position, & engine is in #6 position?? Just some Sunday afternoon head-scratching. I never thought it possible] Thanks to you guys, looks like some have run into it. today, I will simply pin pump & turn engine 1 rev. til my flywheel pin locks again. as always, your response is welcome.
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