Tractor vs Implement Weight Ratio

Bill VA · Oct 2, 2014

So with my JD and MF, both have square baler duty and next year will tow along with the baler a hay wagon. In a few years, the JD will get a 4x4 round baler. Both tractors are 4x2.

I want to do two things:

1. Keep the front end of this tractor on the ground/maintain steering when baling.

2. Have enough weight on the rears to prevent the load being pulled from pushing my tractor down a moderate hill. Don't think traction is or would be a problem going up.

If I'm going to add weight, I'd like to be smart about it and know what/why I'm adding the additional weight beyond the tractor and it's fluid filled rear tires.

Question is - is there a rule of thumb tractor weight vs baler weight ratio?

Thanks!
Bill

Geo-TH,In · Oct 2, 2014

Bill Va,
What I think you are asking a few simple physics problems.

The coefficient of friction is a ratio of the pulling force (traction) to the weight acting perpendicular on wheels. The coefficient of friction depends on tires, surface, weight and angle of hill.

The second part of your question seems to be a torque problem. When you add weight to a 3 pt hitch you transfer weight off the front wheels and apply the weight to the rear wheels. The opposite is also true when you try to lift something with a front loader. The torque created by lifting with a front loader will put more weight on front wheels and remove it from rear wheels. Torque is a simple thing to calculate, it's the weight, perpendicular, you are trying to lift times the distance the weight is from the fulcrum, which happens to be either your front wheels when using a loader or the rear wheels when lifting with 3 pt.

So yes there is a rule, Torque and coefficient of friction, but it a little more complicated. Get your high school physics book out and look up first class lever and coefficient of friction.
George

IowaBob · Oct 2, 2014

When I was first farming on my own (1969) I had a New Holland 68 baler, pulled with a D-14 narrow front, fluid in rear tires, pulled a wagon. The wife drove on the baler and with bales 5 high 1 row down the middle, we had no trouble at all.
Bob

Traditional Farmer · Oct 2, 2014

Round balers are a little tricky when going up steep hills with my NH 851 baler once it gets over half a bale the the tounge of the baler actually comes up to the bottom of the drawbar and is pulling up instead of pushing down,I need at least as much tractor as the 1650 Oliver I bale with to pull it then.

RalphWD45 · Oct 2, 2014

George, you did an awful lot of talking there, to end up NOT answering his question. Personally when I want a physic, I use EXLAK.

Nebraska Cowman · Oct 3, 2014

Haying is a pretty light duty job. If you are worried about it I'd say your tractor is probably too small and adding weight is not going to fix it.

buickanddeere · Oct 3, 2014

Only five high? I build then 7 high. Five rows of 34 bales to make a load of 170 bales.

mkirsch · Oct 3, 2014

A bale wagon won't change your tongue weight much so if you're okay with how it steers now, you likely don't need any additional front weight.

I doubt there's been a farmer in history that got out his high school physics book to figure out how much weight to add. More likely it was done on a trial-and-error basis. Add a couple sets of weights, see how it goes. Err on the side of overkill.

Geo-TH,In · Oct 3, 2014

Prunes work too.

I use the laws of physics when I make ballast weights. OR you could just guess.

dej(Jed) · Oct 3, 2014

(quoted from post at 13:41:18 10/02/14) So with my JD and MF, both have square baler duty and next year will tow along with the baler a hay wagon. In a few years, the JD will get a 4x4 round baler. Both tractors are 4x2.

I want to do two things:

1. Keep the front end of this tractor on the ground/maintain steering when baling.

2. Have enough weight on the rears to prevent the load being pulled from pushing my tractor down a moderate hill. Don't think traction is or would be a problem going up.

If I'm going to add weight, I'd like to be smart about it and know what/why I'm adding the additional weight beyond the tractor and it's fluid filled rear tires.

Question is - is there a rule of thumb tractor weight vs baler weight ratio?

Thanks!
Bill

Bill (VA)

Just to be safe I would add wheelie bars and ROP. Now the summation given by George is good, but he lacks specific examples with lengths and weights for you to follow. Perhaps someone sells a spec sheet that covers the rear weight to front end lift details. I do know that my farmall M pulling in the 6000 lb class, with 6 psi of air in the rears will rise up to 6" off of the ground out at 225 feet. Now I hope all of this helps. LOL.

Paul from MN · Oct 3, 2014

You would get better answers if you told us what equipment you have...

I do square bales with a WD45 running a NH-271 baler, and a bale wagon in a gently rolling field. The tractor does not have any weight added and the tires are dry. Even with the wagon near full going down the steepest hills the tractor can stop whenever I want it to stop.

A WD45 is a pretty light tractor <4,000 lbs, but you are moving darn slow.

Part Time Pete · Oct 3, 2014

Bill,
It's going to depend a lot on your terrain also. My square baler is around 3,500lb, and I pull a kicker wagon behind it that's around 7,500lb when full. I cover some steep ground, and my tractor weighs around 12,000lb and I wouldn't want much less than that, so maybe one to one is a good ratio
Pete

Bill VA · Oct 3, 2014

Thanks!

I've got an Massey Ferguson 50 diesel and a JD 5055d. Both tractors are at or just over 5,000 lbs IMHO with the fluid in the tires.

Super-H-Mike · Oct 3, 2014

I use an H Farmall on my NH 68 baler and pulling wagons with up to 120 bales and never had any issues with gentle hills. I have 2 sets of rear weights but the load definitely outweighs the tractor.

Bill VA · Oct 3, 2014

Great info everyone! Very informative.

Thanks again,
Bill

Tractor vs Implement Weight Ratio

Bill VA

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Geo-TH,In

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IowaBob

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Traditional Farmer

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RalphWD45

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Nebraska Cowman

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buickanddeere

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mkirsch

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Geo-TH,In

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dej(Jed)

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Paul from MN

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Part Time Pete

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Bill VA

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Super-H-Mike

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Bill VA

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