3pt or pull type

Hi guys,
I need your advice. I would like to switch from moldboard plowing to chisel plowing. I have a 90 horse oliver with a recent overhaul,loaded tires and have duals to use too. I am in Minnesota and have heavy ground. I pull 4-16 710 international auto reset plow now. It is all the tractor wants in our ground. My question is what do you guys think is the best brand of chisel plow for my size. More importantly which do you think is better a 3pt chisel plow or a pull type plow? I understand I will most likely be in the 7-9 shank size. I really appreciate your advice.

You probably should place your request over on the Implement forum. Hal

Definitely pull type in Mn. Very few 3pt type around here.

90 h.p. at the pto, right? (Easiest to measure). I have some sales literature for a disk-chisel that recommends 75-100 pto h.p. for a 5 shank and 105-140 h.p. for a 7 shank. If you can only handle a 4-16 moldboard, I think you'll be limited to a 5- shank .
As far as 3-point vs. pull type... 3-point will be cheaper, because there isn't much demand. Don't remember exactly why, but it's been discussed here or on Implement Alley before.

For what little chisel plowing I did, everyone around here recommended a 3 point. We refer to them as really good rock finders, but the pull type were sheer pull power where the three point chisels transfer some of the weight to the tractor in tougher going. I had a 7 shank and it needed about 10 hp per shank for a pull type.

Only chisel I ever got to work in rock hard clay soil was a Graham-Hoeme "Haymie" chisel pull type made in Amarillo, TX. back in the '60's era +/- time line. Said to be "The Plow that Saved the Plains". Mine has 7 shanks setup in 2 rows and would take less than 10 hp per shank if in your lower shift ranges. I work it very well with my 57 pto Branson in A-2, A-3. The tongue was very long and that is what makes it work. The shanks stay in the ground and dig rather than hop along the surface.

Do a google and there is info in the sites archives.

Mark

(quoted from post at 07:07:20 09/17/14) Hi guys,
I need your advice. I would like to switch from moldboard plowing to chisel plowing. I have a 90 horse oliver with a recent overhaul,loaded tires and have duals to use too. I am in Minnesota and have heavy ground. I pull 4-16 710 international auto reset plow now. It is all the tractor wants in our ground. My question is what do you guys think is the best brand of chisel plow for my size. More importantly which do you think is better a 3pt chisel plow or a pull type plow? I understand I will most likely be in the 7-9 shank size. I really appreciate your advice.

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Pull type with stay in the ground better. I have one of each, and when the ground is hard the 3pt will just float on top where the pull type will dig right in. 3pt is nice for tight areas, though..and transporting on my trailer.

You are talking disk-chisel and op is talking chisel. Big, big difference. Around here they recommend 10 hp per shank. I am in so. Mn. Makes a difference if you use twisted shovel or straight shovel. If you have alot of little odd shaped fields I think you would like mounted better. If you have big square fields pull type would be fine. Mounted is easier to put away in shed and takes up less shed space.

young tractor
One thing to keep in mind "all other things equal" pull type is more difficult to pull than a 3 pt. 3 pt will transfer some weight to rear tires of tractor but PT won't. Plus the farther one is attached from load the more difficult it is to pull.

We've been 100% no till since the early 80's. The only real reference I have is from the last tillage we did before going no till. Dad had a Deere 4430 that turned about 135hp on the dyno. We borrowed a 10' pull type IH chisel plow (model unknown to me now) that the 4430 pulled but fought with. Then we first borrowed, then bought our own DMI 12' 3-point chisel plow that the 4430 toyed with at the same depth. Both had twisted shovels, pull type had 2 LESS. With either, we ran out of traction long before it ran out of power.

I'm in southern mn, heavy clay.

I have a 10 shank 2" old chisel plow, my 85 hp didnt pull it very deep. Or fast.

My 140hp dualed tractor did good with it, but seemed it never did much tillage really. Little slots through the stubble.

Got a Glencoe soil saver,7 shank, has flat disks up front, 4 inch twisted shanks.

In the dry ground we had 2 years ago that was a workout for my 140 hp, but worked well. Worked the ground nice and didnt plug much. Was the tool and size I needed to get my baked dry clay shattered, opened, and working again.

I suppose a 9 shank would work most of the time on my 140hp, but the times it doesn't is when you really want to shatter the hard clay the most, and is most needed. When the soil is mellow and the chisel pulls easy, you probably could leave it in the shed!

I think you would be looking for a good 7 shank heavy or very light 9 shank chisel for your tractor, and even at that you often will be doing less than you wanted?

I only have experience with pull type, I believe they are generally better but not a deal breaker on a small 3pt unit that is a good deal wouldn't be afraid of that at all?

As I get older, I guess I want to do a better job, and be conservative with the hp I have for the big tillage. More hp, less machine has equalled a better job. When I look back at what I did with a too small tractor, going too slow and too shallow, I got poorer results for the whole year. That was not good for the tractor or my crop or my bottom line.

If you have any trash at all on the surface, even high yielding bean stubble, a chisel with more clearance will make you much much happier long after it is paid off..... But we all start somewhere.

Paul

I wouldn't go over 7 with that. I never had a pull type but I pull a 9 shank Taylor Way 3pt with my 2-135 White in lighter ground than yours and when it's down where it needs to be,it's all it wants. Having enough weight on the front is an issue when it's coming out of the ground.

Thank you guys for all of your input. What I am gathering from you guys is that it is possible I have too small of a tractor to use a chisel plow effectively? Am I better moldboard plowing until I get a bigger tractor? How much would your average 10Ft 3 point chisel plow weigh?

Look for a pull type 5 shank disc-chisel. Brillion, Soil Saver, etc. It will handle a chisel this size. Better yet, have a neighbor no-till your stuff in and save the fuel and headache.

A 3-pt. chisel plow may pull easier because it is hitched closer to the tractor but in tight or hard ground it will beat you to death. Also, they don't do corners well. I have run both and so have many of my neighbors. For those of us who still chisel plow we have all gone to pull types. The suspected harder pulling is more than offset by the easier riding. In tight or hard ground you will feel like you've been on a bucking horse all day long with a mounted chisel. Mike

I tried that with an 1800C diesel and 3 point JD 16' field cultivator, hated pulling it and hated the job it did. I went to a pull type and really like the job it does.. I know this not a chisel. I recently traded the Oliver for a 200Ac. It will handle the 9' pull type Brush Hog chisel very well in heavy clay.

my olive 1850 pull a 3pt chisel 7 or 8 shanks well i tried 9 but it was a bit much in my soils. i never tried a pull type but if you get an 8 or 9 shank you can always take off a shank or two . but its really hard to add shanks if the chisel did not have them to start with.