There is so much in the media about farmers not getting their grain hauled. Not normally a group to complain, some have? I understand that BNSF, major road, has hauled as many carloads of ag products so far this year as they did all of last year. That shows a lot of flexibility in responding to new demand. What I am not hearing is that the grain consumer, the people on the other end of track are having delivery problems. Are there crushers or mills closed who are idle because they can not get product? Are there vessels waiting at our ports because they can not get a load? Please enlighten me.
- Thread starter NEsota
- Start date
There is so much in the media about farmers not getting their grain hauled. Not normally a group to complain, some have? I understand that BNSF, major road, has hauled as many carloads of ag products so far this year as they did all of last year. That shows a lot of flexibility in responding to new demand. What I am not hearing is that the grain consumer, the people on the other end of track are having delivery problems. Are there crushers or mills closed who are idle because they can not get product? Are there vessels waiting at our ports because they can not get a load? Please enlighten me.
Rail cars from this part of the upper Midwest are nearly all going to the PNW and floated across the Pacific.
Consumers within 1000 miles will just hire trucks to get it done. Oats for example it very expensive here, because it is getting trucked down from Canada, no trains available.
I don't want to yell and stomp at the railroads, they are in business and right now petroleum products are willing to pay the biggest money so that is where the engines go. I understand that.
But..... The railroad has had a very arrogant and obtrusive history, they need regulation and reminding where their bread and butter is, and what they need to be doing.....
A other issue you aren't hearing yet but will in 2 months, is the lp situation. We will be in a world of hurt for lp, with the pipeline no longer carrying lp, and railroads booked up with other product, and this very wet crop not getting ripe in time, we are looking at a massive lp problem shaping up this fall/ winter.
In general the USA has let its infrastructure rot away. These are the beginning rounds of the problems we will face over the next 20 years.
We can't build power lines, we can't build pipelines, we can't repair and improve the lock and dam system, we can't.....
Well, we will reap the rewards of all the 'we can't' people.....
Paul
Consumers within 1000 miles will just hire trucks to get it done. Oats for example it very expensive here, because it is getting trucked down from Canada, no trains available.
I don't want to yell and stomp at the railroads, they are in business and right now petroleum products are willing to pay the biggest money so that is where the engines go. I understand that.
But..... The railroad has had a very arrogant and obtrusive history, they need regulation and reminding where their bread and butter is, and what they need to be doing.....
A other issue you aren't hearing yet but will in 2 months, is the lp situation. We will be in a world of hurt for lp, with the pipeline no longer carrying lp, and railroads booked up with other product, and this very wet crop not getting ripe in time, we are looking at a massive lp problem shaping up this fall/ winter.
In general the USA has let its infrastructure rot away. These are the beginning rounds of the problems we will face over the next 20 years.
We can't build power lines, we can't build pipelines, we can't repair and improve the lock and dam system, we can't.....
Well, we will reap the rewards of all the 'we can't' people.....
Paul
Wemedeeres
Member
The problem where I'm at is that there is so much oil being shipped out of the state by rail that BNSF claims they aren't staffed enough nor do they have enough equipment to handle both the oil and grain that needs to be shipped.
Also been told BNSF makes a lot more money moving oil than they do moving grain, I wonder who they are going to cater to?.......
Also been told BNSF makes a lot more money moving oil than they do moving grain, I wonder who they are going to cater to?.......
farmerwithmutt
Well-known Member
Dont forget around here gasohol goes by rail it cant go in the old pipelines and there building new cars for the demand
Mark - IN.
Well-known Member
Warren Buffett owns BNSF. As long as there is no move on the Keystone pipeline, BNSF is hauling the oil. Who is stopping the Keystone pipeline from being built and who very publicly picked Warren Buffett to be one of his most prized financial advisers? Same guy. Cater to? Not you, me, or anyone else here. Something else. By me, I am seeing more and more Berkshire Hathaway "For Sale" signs on foreclosed homes, farms, properties. Berkshire Hathaway is also owned by Warren Buffett. At least half of all mortgages in America have been bought out, sold to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government. So who owns those forclosed on properties? The government. And who is handling those foreclosed on properties? Berkshire Hathaway, Warren Buffett. He knows and has ties to the very highest of them all in more ways than one.
Mark
Mark
There was an article in the paper last weekend about Baltimore. They want to build a new yard for Norfolk Southern to piggy back cars for more efficient handling, but the state is pulling funding for the project. So, N-S is just going to bypasss B-more and haul everything- cars included- to Norfolk and ship them from there, where B-more used to be a large shipping point for grain, coal and ro-ro ships. The whole port is being demolished by the idjits in Annapolis. The jobs are going, the ships are going, the rail is going- along with the jobs and revenue they create. I just hope O'Malley doesn't run for pres, or we'll be in deeper than the current bunch has gotten us.
And just how do you regulate the rail industry? Farmers grow the crop they are going to make the most profit on. Regulating the rail industry by the government telling them what they can haul and when? Then the government can tell the farmer what to grow and when. And the auto companies will have to make what vehicles they want us to drive and so forth down the pike. The only time the government can tell the RR's what and when to haul is in the event of a national emergency. I kinda like it that way.
Rick
Rick
Here in Okla I see MANY times where trains are pulled off on sidings to let other trains pass. Sometimes those trains will sit for a few days. Between Tulsa and Claremore, I almost always see that. Why they cant connect their sidings so as to have 2 way traffic, I don't understand. Lots of old track have been pulled up. Bet the RR powers that wish they had them now so as to make rerouting somewhat easier.
Trains here will reach anywhere from 30 to 50 miles an hour. Reminds me of the army. Hurry up and wait. IF the dang dummies connected their sidings so as to have 2 way traffic, they could run slower, thereby save wear and tear on the track, and likely get there sooner than they do here now.
Trains here will reach anywhere from 30 to 50 miles an hour. Reminds me of the army. Hurry up and wait. IF the dang dummies connected their sidings so as to have 2 way traffic, they could run slower, thereby save wear and tear on the track, and likely get there sooner than they do here now.
Here in central Illinois, we have the former Illinois Central Railroad mainline that runs from Chicago to New Orleans. The track was a double track roadbed that allowed for fast trains.
When the ICRR merged into the Canadian National, the ICRR to make their bottom line look better pulled up and sold the second track and installed passing tracks. Now, the line has heavy traffic and is nothing but a bottle neck with poor service.
When the ICRR merged into the Canadian National, the ICRR to make their bottom line look better pulled up and sold the second track and installed passing tracks. Now, the line has heavy traffic and is nothing but a bottle neck with poor service.
One of the biggest problems with dual and tripple railways is land or rite of way taxes. Long ago when railroads were powerful there was little trouble. After WW II as the rails lost power to trucks, government got uppity and states all had to get their fingers into any way to make money. Railroads pulled up as much rail as possible cause of taxes and many siddings that they left years ago are now too short. Todays unit trains can be over a mile long and some are close to two miles long. Also any duplicate railroads were pulled up too. Every big industry needs someone to watch over them but government greed and now wacco enviro nuts are really getting into the works. How many toads or crickets or some other stupid thing can these idiots hug? This government is so broken I fear we will never get out of this sewer we are in.
I work for a major railroad in michigan. They're having lots of problems keeping stuff moving around here because of lack of help. When you are seeing trains sit for a day or two, it's probably because they don't have a crew, or where it's going doesn't have enough room to except them. They've been hiring like crazy around here. It's not a quick process though.Train crews go through 5 weeks training off the job, then another couple months on the job before they turn them loose. Between the wave of retireees and the increase in traffic, it's causing headaches.I'd guess the same is going on elsewhere. Michigan doesn't even have the traffic other states do and you can definitely see some issues.
Car design is very much regulated, every detail of the
dashboard, the emissions, safety features.....
Farmers are much regulated as to wetlands, manure
application, planting of human foods (sweet corn, peas, etc.),
and much more.
I would hope the rail roads are governed as much as auto
makers and farmers?
I don't care for too much regulation, but with none at all we
have a mess as well.
It is difficult to balance things like this, we cry when some other
person doesn't have enough, and cry when we get too
much.....
Human nature I suppose.
Big oil is paying more per car load than other products are,
and it is not just crude oil but the supplies for fracking too - frac
sand, etc. get hauled by rail as well.
If pipelines were allowed to be built in a timely fashion then
there would be less rail traffic, but tree hungers, land owners,
and rail road owners prefer to stop pipelines for various
reasons, and so we are stuck with what infrastructure we
have.
Railroads, farmers, etc like to use govt and govt regulations for
their own benefits, sometimes those regulations need to help
out others too.
Always going to be a battle, and everyone sees themselves as
the 'little guy' getting walked on.
No real answer or solution here, it is always interesting to see
the process at work.
And wonder how anything at all gets done.
Paul
dashboard, the emissions, safety features.....
Farmers are much regulated as to wetlands, manure
application, planting of human foods (sweet corn, peas, etc.),
and much more.
I would hope the rail roads are governed as much as auto
makers and farmers?
I don't care for too much regulation, but with none at all we
have a mess as well.
It is difficult to balance things like this, we cry when some other
person doesn't have enough, and cry when we get too
much.....
Human nature I suppose.
Big oil is paying more per car load than other products are,
and it is not just crude oil but the supplies for fracking too - frac
sand, etc. get hauled by rail as well.
If pipelines were allowed to be built in a timely fashion then
there would be less rail traffic, but tree hungers, land owners,
and rail road owners prefer to stop pipelines for various
reasons, and so we are stuck with what infrastructure we
have.
Railroads, farmers, etc like to use govt and govt regulations for
their own benefits, sometimes those regulations need to help
out others too.
Always going to be a battle, and everyone sees themselves as
the 'little guy' getting walked on.
No real answer or solution here, it is always interesting to see
the process at work.
And wonder how anything at all gets done.
Paul
Yeah, but rail traffic has been on a steady decline since the 1950's. There was little sense in maintaining redundant rail lines when the traffic didn't support them.
If you were an investor in a rail company back then, you would have raised holy hell if you heard the company was maintaining excess rail "just in case."
People have this mentality that companies have unlimited resources and that they should just maintain everything forever. That's not how it works.
People have this mentality that companies can just snap their fingers and make things happen overnight. That's not how it works.
People have this mentality that companies have unlimited excess capacity just sitting around doing nothing, ready for a sudden and unexpected boom. That's not how it works.
If companies operated like that, there would be no companies. They would all have gone broke long ago.
What we have here is a major OPPORTUNITY to get this country out of this slump. Railroads will have to be built. Locomotives, cars, etc.. The trucking industry is going to benefit too. Lots of good paying jobs.
If you were an investor in a rail company back then, you would have raised holy hell if you heard the company was maintaining excess rail "just in case."
People have this mentality that companies have unlimited resources and that they should just maintain everything forever. That's not how it works.
People have this mentality that companies can just snap their fingers and make things happen overnight. That's not how it works.
People have this mentality that companies have unlimited excess capacity just sitting around doing nothing, ready for a sudden and unexpected boom. That's not how it works.
If companies operated like that, there would be no companies. They would all have gone broke long ago.
What we have here is a major OPPORTUNITY to get this country out of this slump. Railroads will have to be built. Locomotives, cars, etc.. The trucking industry is going to benefit too. Lots of good paying jobs.
(quoted from post at 04:44:18 09/05/14) Car design is very much regulated, every detail of the
dashboard, the emissions, safety features.....
Farmers are much regulated as to wetlands, manure
application, planting of human foods (sweet corn, peas, etc.),
and much more.
I would hope the rail roads are governed as much as auto
makers and farmers?
I don't care for too much regulation, but with none at all we
have a mess as well.
It is difficult to balance things like this, we cry when some other
person doesn't have enough, and cry when we get too
much.....
Human nature I suppose.
Big oil is paying more per car load than other products are,
and it is not just crude oil but the supplies for fracking too - frac
sand, etc. get hauled by rail as well.
If pipelines were allowed to be built in a timely fashion then
there would be less rail traffic, but tree hungers, land owners,
and rail road owners prefer to stop pipelines for various
reasons, and so we are stuck with what infrastructure we
have.
Railroads, farmers, etc like to use govt and govt regulations for
their own benefits, sometimes those regulations need to help
out others too.
Always going to be a battle, and everyone sees themselves as
the 'little guy' getting walked on.
No real answer or solution here, it is always interesting to see
the process at work.
And wonder how anything at all gets done.
Paul
Paul, back when Clinton was in office he wanted to make buying an SUV a thing where the buyer had to prove the need to try to force people into vehicles that burned less fuel. I'm not talking about safety or emission standards. I'm talking the want everyone to drive a roller skate. You give the government the power to regulate what a RR hauls and when the you are pretty much going to open that can of worms. The government, regardless of party is about power.
Farmers taking subsidized crop insurance are very regulated. Stop taking farm welfare and there is a lot of power over the famer they loose. You don't give them that power until you sign on the dotted line.
I'm not good with the government tell me how to dress, what to drive or what and how much to eat. And the politicians just don't stop. YOu give an inch and they keep taking that inch until all of a sudden a mile.
Rick
There is a proposal on the table to obsolete or retrofit all ethanol tank cars by 2017. New cars will have to have steel 1/8 inch thicker to 9/16 inch. Have to be insulated with an outer steel skin.
Federal Transportation Agency will issue a go or no go sometime in October. Also, said average tanker lasts 40 years.
Federal Transportation Agency will issue a go or no go sometime in October. Also, said average tanker lasts 40 years.
The railroad tie up in the midwest is due to the ever increasing production of shale oil in the Dakotas. That's why Berkshire Hathaway,Warren Buffet, bought BNSF They knew what would happen when the shale fields start producing and the fact that rail intermodal transport is chipping away at long haul truck delivery. The average monthly miles traveled per truck is now under 9,000, a drop of 1,500 miles between 1998 and 2013. So don't cry for the railroads.
redforlife
Well-known Member
Railroads in my area do not haul grain. Its all done by big trucks. It makes no sense to me. Railroad doesn't even want the business. Its all about circute trains. Coal, and stack trains. Grain elevators don't even bother about trying to get rail cars in anymore. Been that way for years. Railroad has pretty much made it impossible. They won't even consider setting off cars, unless they set off a certain number. That number in many cases can't even be set off because the siding isn't even long enough. Its sad, but the railroad has pretty much taken itself out of the grain hauling business. Unless it is a 100+ cars and can more less be run as a circute train.
GeneMO
Well-known Member
- Location
- Pilot Grove, Mo.
Our local, small town COOP, has some land out at the edge of town. Last weekend I saw where they were making two large enclosures out of the concrete highway dividers. Then they are hauling in limestone fill, a chat/lime mix. So I am guessing they plan to fill one each with soybeans and corn. Dont know what their plans are to cover it. Big tarp? Each of these appear to be 100' X 200'.
That will hold a bunch of grain. The farmers here have been putting up bins as fast as they can order them for the last several years.
As the farms get bigger, bigger combines and most have their own semi's now, well they dont have the time to let a combine set idle while the trucks are setting in line at the grain elevator.
Lots of farms grain storage complex is as large as the COOPs'
Gene
That will hold a bunch of grain. The farmers here have been putting up bins as fast as they can order them for the last several years.
As the farms get bigger, bigger combines and most have their own semi's now, well they dont have the time to let a combine set idle while the trucks are setting in line at the grain elevator.
Lots of farms grain storage complex is as large as the COOPs'
Gene
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