GVWR / CDL question

BrentinIA · Aug 8, 2014

I am looking at a replacement gooseneck trailer and the one I am thinking of is 36 foot and has an 18,000 pound GVWR. I am thinking I am in CDL territory now, even with it for "farm use"? I know in Iowa if you have a gooseneck it is considered a weight-transfer trailer and they use the combined GVWR of the trailer and pickup to determine total weight, if it is a bumper hitch they determine them separately. I have never had a CDL so don"t know the requirements, I plan on going to the DOT and getting a book Monday but thought I"d check in here to see if anyone had any knowledge on weight ratings and licenses for pickup/gooseneck combos, etc..

Super Trucker · Aug 8, 2014

The magic number is 26,001 lbs combined. If you are over this you need a cdl class a with or without air brake endorsement.

old · Aug 8, 2014

Do not know how it it were you are but if you do not hire out and use for farm here in Missouri you do not need a CDL. Now if you hire out then YES you do. I still carry a class A CDL just because you never know when you may need it but then on the other hand cops hit you harder if you do get pulled over

BANDITFARMER · Aug 8, 2014

As it was explained to me its simple, 18,000 GVW trailer and a 10,000 GVW truck = 28,000 lbs and any truck trailer combination over 26,000 lbs requires a CDL. Anything over 26,000 lbs no mater ware you are is CDL required when you hit the road. Some states still have farm plates and have different rules and some don't but as it was explained to me by the Ohio DOT what might be ok on side roads goes out the window when you hit an interstate or U.S. highway then federal rules apply no mater what. Bandit

mmfan55 · Aug 8, 2014

By federal standards, if the combined gvwr is over 26000# , CDL is required. Some farm exemption exists but you are at the mercy of the cop to.decide if you qualify.

john in la · Aug 8, 2014

As others have said 26,001 is the magic number.

If the GCWR of the truck and trailer is 26,001 or more you need a CDL
If the GCWR of the truck and trailer is 26,000 or less you do not need a CDL

There is only one exception to this rule.
A truck GWR of 26,000 or less with a trailer GWR of 9,999 or less.

Once you figure out if you need one or not with the above rules you can look for exemptions.

Farmers within 150 miles of the farm carrying farm products to market;

RV's

88-1175 · Aug 8, 2014

my dmv,dot,and local rep told me this week the combined gross wt can be over 26000 as long as the physical weight is under 26000 I don"t need a cdl..example they gave me,a track with a gvw of 20000 pulling a trailer with a gvw of 20000 that only weighs 15000 empty doesn"t need a cdl,but if I load 11000 on it im still safe,but with 11001 load im in need of a cdl

john in la · Aug 8, 2014

Who ever told you that is dead wrong.
Physical weight has nothing to do with it.
What you can weigh (weight rating) is what they go by.

Just because you are running empty when they stop you does not excuses the need for a CDL.

T in NE · Aug 8, 2014

That"s Combined GVWR, not GCWR. Which until very recently was a number picked out of thin air, usually under 26,000 pounds so that dealer techs didn"t need to obtain a CDL for road testing of vehicles.

MT RON · Aug 8, 2014

No one mentioned the fact that you will also need to have a current DOT physical to keep your CDL.The new physical regs. are a lot more stringent as of May 21st 2014.Friend of mine just got his day before yesterday and it cost him 225.00.I am on my last dot physical now.Theyare going to be testing for sleep disorders a lot now.
Ron

Sprint 6 · Aug 9, 2014

Your friend got ripped off by the doctor doing his physical. He needs to shop around. My dad just got his DOT physical this week, cost $50. He goes to the local walk in clinic for his, not his family doctor.

Sprint 6 · Aug 9, 2014

That is the problem with all these CDL regulations, nobody knows the rules or can give a straight answer, even the ones who enforce the rules. These rules are just another step towards making everyone a criminal. Another thing no one has mentioned, you may also need a DOT number posted on the truck if your truck is rated over 10K.

john in la · Aug 9, 2014

So T you trying to confuse the original poster; just playing word games with me; or you just did not know what GCWR means?

D Slater · Aug 9, 2014

In Ohio and other states it depends on how the officer interprets the rules. Paid a fine for what you say is okay in Ohio. Maybe I could have beat it if I went to court, but didn"t take a chance on taking off from work or traveling 200 miles then have to pay anyway.
Contacted Ohio DOT and they said the highway patrol was wrong, but I needed to contract the highway patrol to get it dropped. Contact them and they say no. Even one of the patrolman partners questioned him about giving me a ticket for a 14,000 GVW trailer and a 8600 GVW truck with only 5500 lb. load on the trailer when writing the ticket.
Some places you need a CDL under 26,000 when pulling certain trailers if you work for a business or own a business and use the vehicle for business.

L.C. Gray · Aug 9, 2014

They'll go by...

Rated weight,
Registered weight,
Actual weight

Whichever one will get you in the most trouble...
Anywhere you go past 26k you'll have to have an elevated license.

L.C. Gray · Aug 9, 2014

What everyone forgets when the CDL term gets thrown out there is you don't have to have a CDL just because it's over 26k. Just as there is a class C there is also a class A & B, just like besides a class A & B CDL there is also a class C CDL.

If you're not running commercial you don't have to follow the commercial rules.

Also there are exemptions on the CDL to bypass the Medical card requirement... and hauling farm equipment is one of them.

Frank 41 · Aug 9, 2014

John in LA pointed out the COMBINATION VEHICLE, which is a GN and PU needs a CDL. Lighter bumper hitch vehicles can not need a CDL.

mmfan55 · Aug 9, 2014

Let me try again in more detail: With the exception john in la has mentioned; any and all vehicles with a GVWR of 26001 and up is subject to CDL requirements. Class A: combination vehicle (no exception on type of hitch; combination vehicle is any and all that hooks together. truck (or tractor) and trailer). That is what we are talking about here. CLASS B: straight truck over 26k or truck over 26k and trailer under 10k. Class C: covers smaller commercial vehicles such as 15 passenger vans; haulers of haz-mat, etc... FARM EXEMPTION: This is the area that can get "touchy". Actual farm use, on or between farms or fields is usually exempt. If an enforcement officer decides that you are not directly operating for the FARM; (recreational or commercial) you may be issued a bunch of tickets. So; in short; the trailer you are looking at; with most all 3/4-1ton trucks will put you in CDL territory unless you are able to convince an enforcement officer that you are farm exempt.

Rollie NE PA · Aug 9, 2014

With one exception. RV/Motorhomes. My BIL was just here in PA with his RV. 31,000 lbs, 41 feet long pulling a 6,000 lb Suv. 350 cummins with air brakes. He lives in California and was headed to Florida
I don"t understand why a cdl is not needed for these vehicles. I know they are not commercial vehicles, but they are on the interstates just the same.

Owen Aaland · Aug 9, 2014

Also keep in mind that when you go interstate the 26,000 lbs no longer applies. For commercial interstate use anything over 10,000 lbs combined vehicle weight rating requires a CDL.

In Minnesota and for Federal Interstate use the licensed weight rating is not part of the determination of a commercial vehicle. To determine if a vehicle or vehicle combination requires a CDL it has to first be used in commercial transportation. If it is determined to be commercial then the next step is to look at the manufacturers vehicle weight rating. If the manufacturers VWR can not be determined then the next step is to find the actual combined vehicle loaded weight.

The licensed weight rating is a state issue. If your weight is over what you are licensed for there may be a fine and/or other penalties but it does not come into play as far as CDL determination.

Minnesota took out the language dealing with trailer weights and exemptions under 10,000 lbs. If you have a truck rated a 24,000 lbs pulling a trailer rated at 3,000 lbs both vehicles will have to be inspected.

Bret4207 · Aug 10, 2014

(quoted from post at 22:05:22 08/09/14) With one exception. RV/Motorhomes. My BIL was just here in PA with his RV. 31,000 lbs, 41 feet long pulling a 6,000 lb Suv. 350 cummins with air brakes. He lives in California and was headed to Florida
[b:bd48b0185b]I don"t understand why a cdl is not needed for these vehicles. I know they are not commercial vehicles, but they are on the interstates just the same.[/b:bd48b0185b]

Because the AARP is one of the nations largest lobbying organizations and they bribe politicians in every state not to touch of Grandpa Greyhair who can't see, can't hear, never drove anything bigger than a mini-bus back in '68 and has loads of disposable cash to spend on a $150K motor home and his "right" to drive it where he wants.

That's why.

Bret4207 · Aug 10, 2014

(quoted from post at 22:24:32 08/09/14) Also keep in mind that when you go interstate the 26,000 lbs no longer applies.[b:a253832243] For commercial interstate use anything over 10,000 lbs combined vehicle weight rating requires a CDL.[/b:a253832243]

In Minnesota and for Federal Interstate use the licensed weight rating is not part of the determination of a commercial vehicle. To determine if a vehicle or vehicle combination requires a CDL it has to first be used in commercial transportation. If it is determined to be commercial then the next step is to look at the manufacturers vehicle weight rating. If the manufacturers VWR can not be determined then the next step is to find the actual combined vehicle loaded weight.

The licensed weight rating is a state issue. If your weight is over what you are licensed for there may be a fine and/or other penalties but it does not come into play as far as CDL determination.

Minnesota took out the language dealing with trailer weights and exemptions under 10,000 lbs. If you have a truck rated a 24,000 lbs pulling a trailer rated at 3,000 lbs both vehicles will have to be inspected.

Could you provide a statute dealing with this in the FMCSR? Or is this state law in Minn?

Bret4207 · Aug 10, 2014

(quoted from post at 18:07:48 08/09/14) John in LA pointed out the COMBINATION VEHICLE, which is a GN and PU needs a CDL. Lighter bumper hitch vehicles can not need a CDL.

Yes they can. Trust me.

Bret4207 · Aug 10, 2014

Once again I see people confusing State law with Federal law and commercial and non-comercial. My best advice it to find a competent local police agency and go to the section that deals with licensing and heavier vehicle. Describe exactly what you are doing and where you will be going. Get the information in writing and the officials name. Check with the you State DMV and get their information. If you are crossing state lines check with someone enforcing the FMCSR laws. There are a lot of variables that can put you in good or bad shape.

I once stopped a guy in northern NY who came up from Texas to see his relatives. While he was here he attended and auction and bought a trailer and bunch of stuff for his Texas ranch/farm. Then he loaded up and headed for Texas. I ton dually truck and a big gooseneck. No log, no DOT#, no nuthin'. Nice guy, I did all I could for him to get him fixed up enough to travel, but he was still in the wrong. IIRC, he was a former cross country truck driver too. He should have known better.

Owen Aaland · Aug 11, 2014

(quoted from post at 08:12:37 08/10/14)

Could you provide a statute dealing with this in the FMCSR? Or is this state law in Minn?

Maybe they are giving us a line but this is what the definition is in the Commercial Vehicle Inspectors manual.

[/img]

Bret4207 · Aug 11, 2014

(quoted from post at 03:45:32 08/11/14)

(quoted from post at 08:12:37 08/10/14)

Could you provide a statute dealing with this in the FMCSR? Or is this state law in Minn?

Click to expand...

Maybe they are giving us a line but this is what the definition is in the Commercial Vehicle Inspectors manual.

[/img]

You are confusing Commercial Motor Vehicles and a Commercial Drivers License. 2 different things. Most CMVs under 26001 lbs, outside of certain buses, aren't going to require a CDL. IOW, just because it's a CMV doesn't mean you need a CDL. CDL depends on GVWR, CGVWR or passenger capacity. I can't recall if a non-CDL license can have a Haz Mat endorsement at the moment. There are also non-CDL licenses in some states for the larger motor homes. Some state have restricted Class A's too for the guys hauling cars on goosenecks with pickups.

It gets complicated if you try to read too much into it.

GVWR / CDL question

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