Question about the qaulity of today's workers

Edd in Ky's post about his experience in a store created a good discussion. He later asked if the quality of today's worker has declined. I would have to say YES!!!!!

You would not believe how people come to job interviews or even to fill out job applications. I don't expect a suit and tie but clean an not club style would be nice.

When we still had the semi trucks I had a fellow come to do a ride and drive. He came in a tank top, shorts and flip flops. I had told him that the companies we haul out of required: sleeved shirts, close top shoes, and long legged pants. I did not even bother having him drive, just sent him on his way.

Also there is a large percentage of the young people that do not have a practical education. They can't add without a calculator(taught in school that way), Write in proper English (slang is the norm for many), Talk in a business climate(meaning knowing how to be respectful and courteous). They know who the hottest new star is but can't tell you who the president is. They get 90% of their news from the comedians making fun of the "serious" people. Many do not know how to act in a business climate (no profanity and limit personal calls/texts, etc.)

The trouble had always been there for a percentage of each age group but it is getting to be a larger percentage in today's younger generation.

Much of this is the fault of the schools but the main culprits are poor parents.

The next generation is going to have a way different split of haves and have nots. There are well educated and driven young people but they are a smaller minority. That fact will be reflected in their earnings big time. I am afraid the "masses" will scream for the Government to "level" the field for them. Meaning tax the worker bees harder to give it to the ones that don't work. Look to Europe to see how that has worked out for them. Mostly low growth and shrinking economies.

For all the positive things happening there are thing to be concerned about too.

PS. I am against illegal workers big time but I have had them come around looking for work. They usually are better dressed and politer than the legally born group. Makes you wonder.

JD,

I would totally agree with you. I believe that we have lost the immigrant instinct that was here when are ancestors migrated. There is a ton of bad press about the new immigrants, but I think they are here to work.

Not that I really want to see this come, to anyone but... Hard times , that is what it takes to smarten up the shiftless and lazy people . Folks that put more importance on"having a good time" . Rather than paying their own way through life. Give people back their pride, let them work for what they get, and be proud of their accomplishment. Bruce

No disagreement with anything been said,but a new trend with companys(last 5 or so yrs.)hiring people on a revolving door bases.Only keep them for their trial period(4-6 months)and lay them off and bring in a new group the same week.Doesn't help morale any with young people just starting out.

Hard Times are only hard for the working class, welfare class gets a check no matter what, plus a whole lot more.

You're right, when there aren't any social programs and there are 10 men willing to take your place if you don't want to work, that would be good incentive.

When I studied some local history on the pipelines installed through our valley in 1881 and 82, that was the condition that was described. If a man didn't work he didn't eat.

There is a substantial difference amongst people today, very diverse, and the majority may not be well rounded in the better areas, having a decent work ethic, common sense and characteristics you mention. I don't believe its fair to be stereotypical, however there is no denying that there are those who will show up to a job interview in camouflage hunting attire or wear shorts, a tank top and sandals.

I would say, most of it is parenting and education, you may very well find that its just a misguided attitude or mentality, and a lack of education in many areas, some are unmotivated as well.

None of the post high school years are easy for most, but if a person has the understanding to pursue milestones, and achieve, this certainly helps, no matter what it is. Careers, business's or employment with desirable firms with upward mobility, public service, vocational work, etc. etc, there is no guarantee with any of it, as well as with a college education, today you have to foster opportunity, you really have to use your wits and be proactive in your endeavors, settling for mediocrity and or being sedentary in your outlook will get you nowhere, certainly not then (past) as well as today. The culture, the complexities of the human condition, play a significant role.

We all know successful people and most of that is achieved through dedication, and applying ones self in a disciplined manner, adapting and not giving up when things don't go so well. Could be a business owner, could be a career person, or any vocation, I've seen many in all those areas.

I still say parenting and education, I've seen it with a long time friends kids, its plainly evident with impressive results, both will do well in life because of the strong foundation on which they have been built upon, they know the difference of right and wrong, know what work means and are motivated to get it done, all the side show activities and influence take a back seat, not because they are told, because they know!

20 years ago, I recall someone I knew in the business going for an interview in his hunting clothes, an avid archery hunter, you just have to shake your head, and the job was overnight doing inspection work in the subway tunnels of electrical work, likely you would never see a suit and tie person in there ever, but the one time you must show a good personal appearance, he did not. Sure its kind of fake, you'll put your best on, but once you are hired, you may never again, but you will perform and wear appropriate attire to the job.


I have tested numerous times when I was younger in tractor trailers and heavy equipment, I'd never have thought of not being properly dressed and there was more slack then. My concern with the truck was being able to shift smoothly and not having the person checking me out think I was incompetent or so green that I'd be a risk. I remember the first time I drove a fuller 13 spd road ranger, now we had one ourselves in a GMC Astro 8V-92, but I never really learned it, too young still. When I tested, and or tried out that day, was the first time I drove one of those, with a heavy rogers lowboy, was a '72 Auto-Car 335 Cummins, no problem at all, sure in heck was nervous, but got hired and once I was on my own, I made a lot of moves, starting with 3 D8K's my first day, also losing a range that day, trans was leaking air and I had to limp in to the Cat dealer watching that air gauge like a hawk and wait for our mechanic, who took a the same part off the other Auto-Car, what a mess, even the D8 was a mess, they ran the undercarriage until destruction, literally, I took it off, as the UAW guy refused and they always load and load when in the yard, or they did then, it left a trail of broken parts and metal on each side of the track.

I've digressed, just remembering a first day and being proud to have been hired and deal with all that as well, never easy even after you get hired LOL !

I always have to laugh when I remember one young man (I won't mention ethnicity) that I interviewed for a job driving a delivery van.

He was an absolute animal physically, and claimed to have played semi-pro football, but throughout the interview he kept asking how hard the work was. He even asked how hard the work was before pay even came up.

Needless to say, I didn't hire him.

JD, while I very much enjoy your posts, and for the most part agree with your sentiments, as far as this post, not really sure I agree young people are are young people, and people are people things have been the same for ever
got good ones, bad ones, and the middle ones
I am sure when you & me were young, ( I am 60 ) some old puncture wound LOL was bitching about us young uns and they would have been right ! my dad always had a thing about 10 %, where he said in any given situation/ or occupation, 10% were really good, 10% were really really bad and the rest fall some where in between
and my spelling & grammar might not be perfect, but neither is JD"S
bob

can't agree more, but if you can go that route & still look at yourself in the mirror every day, go for it
bob

A lot of the revolving door syndrome you talk about has to do with finding out if they will be a good employee and how well they will work. Where I work, we have had new hires that will call in sick on the 2nd day on the job, no show, no call, and think that the work hours are a suggestion, not the time to be at work. Companies need people who will show up every day on time and do their job, too many young people don't. My 2 cents. Chris

One problem with this theory, if all the young people today are so sorry then what does that say for the people who raised them? I have worked in one profession for 40 years, worked literally thousands of men in that time ranging in age from 18-70, there are plenty of dummies and do nothings in every age group, no shortage of double whammies either (stupid and lazy)everybody thinks they had it worse or worked harder than the people who come after them. It is mostly crap, guess what, when we are all dead and gone this old world is going to keep spinning.

I hear you on this subject.

Where I work all the younger guys, under 30 are on their cell phone every hour, most are outside smoking every other hour.

I saw a friend of mine yesterday at Tractor supply. He told me of this guy, 27yo that just quit his job at where my friend works. This 27 yo guy had a bad work ethic, on his phone too much, wife call him too much too complaining. The guy left because he felt he could do better at another place that respected him more. WTF?

It does not really matter what the ''new immigrants'' are here to do, because they are not immigrants, they are criminals that have broken the laws of our country by entering illegally, in other words, they are invaders and in many places around the globe would be shot as such. If someone off the street moved in to your garage would you consider them ''neighbors'' or trespassers?

Funny thing about immigrants. . .they do the jobs the white folk don't want, and do them well.

Yup!!!

I am 59 and I"ve heard this stuff about the younger generation all my life. I think that they might turn out better than us....

As am employer, there is a need for immigrant workers, and it is a TOUGH process to do it legally. I adhere to the laws, but many employers do not.

Regardless of the press, external_link has really enforced these regulations.

We really need immigration reform that cheaply and quickly allows workers to come into this country, be traceable, then return home.

I will not get into humanitarian immigration because it is not relevant to this conversation.

I couldn't agree more on both the outlook of the younger generation on working, and the work ethic of the illegals.

Funny thing I've heard a couple of business owners I know say they will never hire a white kid again as they aren't worth a crap. Instead they'd rather hire an immigrant (legal or not) and actually get the job done and be able to make a profit for themselves after paying the guys a fair wage. One guy even offers a really good starting wage, then a raise at three months, another at 6 months, and then offers a weeks vacation at a year. He's been in business for quite a while and has never had to give the first raise, but gets complaints all the time about not paying enough, the work being too hard, and the fact they don't get enough days off......

The only problem I see with the illegals is that they are taking jobs that real Americans could be doing. The thing is most of those jobs are ones that the current crop of "real Americans" don't want to do. Funny thing though, the folks here legally hate the illegals. Like one of my customers says, he comes from Peru, and is here legally. He pays his taxes, insurance, etc just like everyone should, but is still expected to work for nothing because he's Hispanic and people think he's from Mexico. Basically don't pay taxes and you can work cheap, pay taxes out the a$$ and you have to charge more just to turn a profit.

That being said, a lot of the problems with things nowdays are with the way our government handles things. Free money to slackers, tax the pants off the working man to give to the slackers, tax the big companies until they move overseas and cut jobs here, and on, and on.......Then they teach our kids that they don't rrally need to use their heads, just their computers, and we have a huge problem coming up with a generation that actually has any common sense.....Then they are told that they are ALL equal, and deserve this or that, that everyone is a winner, and all that other happy horse crap, and it just gets worse. Granted that's all a bit of an over simplification, but all you have to do is look around to see the picture as clear as day in the current crop of workers......

LAA: You need to read more carefully what I wrote. I did not say ALL the younger people today where sorry examples.

The main point is that the percentage that are sorry sure seems to be getting larger not smaller.

Where this is going to be a major issue is that the good working or educated in this generation is going to be out numbered. This causes the ship to sink.

The motivated/driven younger people are amazing in what they can and will do.

I am not condemning the whole group, just pointing out the split is much more pronounced. That is not just my opinion either. Talk to just about anyone that hires personal these days. The "average" of skills is falling. I mean the expected social skills or appearance norm.

Even the low skilled workers in my youth knew to put their best foot forward when going to asked for a job. I have seen guys asked for jobs in pants that had more patches than you could count. They where poor and wore the best they had. You could bet that those patched pants where washed/clean.

An old hired hand's wife ironed his patched pants. She said "God may not have given them much money but soap an elbow grease where cheap"

That's one problem with the economy improving so much, at least in MN! last week when I was out shopping it seemed like everyplace I went it was new employees that did not know how to do their job. The guy where I buy my diesel for our tractor didn't even know what off-road diesel was! I think all the better workers have moved up to better jobs and the entry level service workers are what's left over. Maybe with the raise in min wage this will improve, it sure has improved things in the stated that have already done it!

JD Seller, whether you said all or not is irrelevant, I just don't agree that the present generation is any dumber, lazier or less motivated than preceding generations. I have never noticed a shortage of sorry people in my lifetime, my Dad was born in 1919 and he knew plenty, my Grandfather was born in 1892 and he used to tell me how hard it was to find anyone to do anything right. It did not start yesterday, this country elected FDR President 4 times between 1932 and 1944 because he promised them free stuff, he also begat the welfare state, which a majority of people are still voting for. Young people may have voted for external_link in large percentages but it was middle aged voters and seniors that elected him, twice. I know all the homilies about walking 5 miles to pick cotton and splitting firewood for 10 cents a cord and a whole bunch more. I was born and raised in the lower Mississippi delta and have seen more than my share of humble poor people who proudly did their best and did not ask for anything, but they were few and far between and still are.

big co. get just what they hire. my last boss was more impressed with the man that could use his iPhone to call someone to repair a problem than a man that could pickup a wrench a repair a problem. it's called "working smarter not harder".

sorry workers will do whatever the market will bare.

"He's been in business for quite a while and has never had to give the first raise, but gets complaints all the time about not paying enough, the work being too hard, and the fact they don't get enough days off......
"

So he has never had to give the 1st raise? If that is the case, there is more to the story...

LAA we will just have to agree to disagree then. LOL

I think it's more that illegal immigrants do the same jobs for less pay than the "white folk" want.

In the Midwest most meat packing plants started out using local labor. In the 1980's wages were cut and the locals were replaced with folks from south of the border. In the 2000's wages were cut again and those folks were replaced by others from eastern Europe. Was that because the first two groups didn't want the work or because their pay was too high?

In towns with packing plants, local governments are now burdened with providing welfare services for the families of the new immigrants working in the packing plants at low wages. Who is actually benefiting the most from the money we have to spend on those welfare services: the underpaid employees, or the stock holders of the packing plants?

I think it starts at the top. Too much free stuff causes too much effort for a paycheck.

No Chris,these companys move people in and out like cattle in a feedlot.This way they don't have to pay benefits,unemployment taxes,no recall rights ETC.Whenever you see their adds for workers,you know there is a layoff coming soon.

I guess I disagree with this. For every story about lazy and incompetent youngsters there is a story of a hard worker that is smart and savy. Take my daughter who I've talked about on here who is putting herself through college while raising 3 kids and making the deans list. Or my oldest son who put himself through college by working 2 jobs during the school year and 3 in the summer, one of which was doing the morning milking shift at a 600 cow dairy. He got a total of $800.00 dollars from me over that time and paid that back during the summer he asked for it. One of the most memorable things for me from that time was one evening I called him to see how he was doing. I could tell he was out of breath and asked what he was doing. He was running to work, 5 miles each way, because he didn't have money for gas to drive. This was in winter, the temps around zero. After I got done chewing him out for running across a lake in that weather because it was a mile shorter I couldn't help be proud that he didn't sit there feeling sorry for himself and skipping work or ask me for money which I would have given him.

As far as the education is concerned I think it is driven by the modern work place. There are few jobs today that don't demand computer knowledge.
Everything works off them even factory jobs. There are few jobs that don't use them left, including farming. Most new farm machinery is so computerized that old folks like me can't hardly run them anymore. There is almost no need for old math since everyone has a cel phone and computer at had most of the time.

As a few have said every generation has said the the following generation is lazy and incompetent, only to have that generation say it when their children are of age. I have raised 5 kids of my own and 2 step children and most have had their bad times, but now that they are in their mid 20's and early 30's they are all productive members of society and I think that holds true for most.

They dont know who the president is but they voted for him .

Jon it sounds like your children are doing well. The point I am trying to make is that as a whole the percent that are doing well is falling compared to prior generations.

Sound like the the "NO child left behind" program.
looked good in theory but the system failed the more motivated and gifted children. My son is a computer slacker and my daughter is a driven individual. Both are good kids, but one has a vision of what they want and the other has no clue what he wants, or how to get it. When I get the answers, I have a perfect candidate for the solution.
SDE

And privatise profits?

My point is that I disagree with that statement. Don't forget that you are a member of the free lovin, bra burnin, draft dodgin, hippy freak collage dropouts who were going to live in communes and smoke dope and do drugs while burning the flag in protest, unless you were busy throwing rocks at the national guard. Your parents and grand parents were just as convinced your generation was going to be the end of this country as you seem to be of the next generation. As I said there are many examples of hard working intelligent young folks and I don't believe it's any worse than days of old. All you have to do is watch a few old movies from the 50's, 60's and 70's and you will see they talked the same way about your generation as you do about today's young folks.

Hi, I have to join in with this discussion. My belief the young people of today are just as energized today as any workers of the past 70 years at least from my life's experience. Most all of my working life I was in charge of a group of people to get a certain amount of work completed. This alway's had to be a team effort, making people thay were appreciated and when something started to go wrong be prepared to assist. This past Saturday 5 young people in their early 20's were replacing on a roof next door. They completed the project in less than 8 hours, their boss might have been there for 30 minutes. Hot summer day high humidity, they never slowed down perfect job. The only complaint was their radio was a little loud. My belief younger/newer generation are great energized people. Cheers, Murray

I remember my brother had applied at the city shop as a mechanic. The application was delivered to the wrong house so he didn't receive it in time but applied anyway. He was called in for an interview. Out of over 140 applicants he was hired. I guess the boss told him afterwards it was because he had some dirt under his fingernails.

One of our sons is a senior project engineer in a paper mill, the other is a university professor. In those positions most of you will never meet them, that is where the cream of the crop is working. They grew up in a home with two parents who were married to each other and stayed that way, wasn't easy, but it was worth it!

If that someone showed up on time everyday, 7 days a week, worked hard without compaints or breaks, learned his job quickly when instructed, and worked for a fair Wage.....and was willing to pay taxes, even without a path to citizenship....would you understand why many Americans do not see them as criminals?

Druggy Americans that never show up, sleep until noon and steal to pay for their habit...criminals (and citizens)..and scum.

I judge the man..not the place he was born, which he had no control over.

PS: Most of those immigrant criminals you talk about, actually know the names of their own children, and still live with and support the mothers of their kids. What a strange concept in the new America.

Yes, there is more to the story. The guy is in his late 40's and runs a lawn care company. He gets out and works doing the same things his guys do every day, so it's not like he's some lazy boss who rides around in the truck checking on them. All he expects his guys to do is to be on time every morning, and he expects them to work during the day and put in a full day, regardless of how hot it is. He also expects them to be able to perform the work he asks of them, and more so the work they claim they know how to do when hired.

His biggest problem is that he tries to work the white guys instead of the Hispanics like most of the other guys do. That has gotten him things like the one kid last year that told him that he thought they should have at least a week of paid vacation time every month so they could take care of their own business instead of having to work every day and spend so much time on the phone getting everything done that way.....Either way the kid thought he was entitled to get paid for taking care of his personal business, whether it was as vacation time, or as time taken away from his actual work time by using the phone.

Short answer to your post though is that as bad as many of us hate to admit it, finding a young person that actually wants to learn and work, and has the sense to do most types of blue collar jobs (like me being a heavy equipment mechanic) is a near impossibility. Heck I had a kid stopped and asked me about work a few months back. I didn't have anything at the time, and he called me about a month later and asked again. Word from a buddy that knows him said he was a hard worker and didn't mind getting dirty. So, I gave him a chance the second time he called because I had work for him. He proceeded to call the first morning with the excuse that his girlfriends mom/grandma had to go to the hospital and he needed to be there. From that point he never even called back. I left a message that night as I also needed him the next couple of days, and then called and left another message a week later. This far I've heard absolutely nothing back from him. At this rate if he called tomorrow I wouldn't use him, even if I was swamped with work (which I am)because there is no way now I could trust him to be there when I need him. Oh well, it might throw me a little more behind, but at least I'm getting paid for the 'extra' hours I've got to work to get the jobs done alone.

There's still good kids out there. They are just a lot harder to find than the bad ones. Mainly because they are at the FFA or Boy Scouts meeting, working, fixing something, and generally not in the way or being completely unproductive.

Mike Rowe's foundation teamed up with UTI (Universal Technical Institute) to give out a million dollars worth of free scholarships to the school to people who were wanting to go to their tech school. A large percentage of applicants read the rules, signed the forms, including the S.W.E.A.T. pledge, then turned around and complained that the judging was rigged when they didn't follow the rules.
s.w.e.a.t. pledge

worst advice ever?

AHEM!! Cough: Bryce




I have been through BSA, and I have great parents, AND I have a bust-a$$ kind of attitude...


On another note, I work for $12-20 an hour, anyone interested?

[email protected]

Bryce

Its not a strange concept in the America I live in, it may be a strange concept for the beneficiarys of the last 50 years worth of abundant policies. All that aside, what does it have to do with whether someone who enters the country illegally broke our laws or not? What part of "illegal" is difficult to understand?

I don't judge any man by the place he was born, I can guaruntee that I have worked a lot more people from different cultures than you have and lived with them on Drilling rigs all over the world, and still do. However, if someone enters the country illegally that person is breaching our borders and if that tolerated we will soon have no borders.

This comment has been made as long as there has been a younger generation. In Ancient Greece, Socrates made the same point. In every generation the assumption is wrong. Every generation has people who won't work, but every generation has those who work their tails off. Drive and effort are individual qualities, and members of many families have examples of people with and without them. I teach young people every day at a community college, and most, after some guidance, work very hard. Oh yes, they have worked someplace else before they come to class. My children work their butts off at their jobs and as being good parents. It's time to give up this stupid generalization.

I would have to agree and say yes too. I am not all that old of person, but I grew up in a day where children were expected to mow the yard, watch thier younger siblings, do chores around the place, take out the trash, etc. Everywhere I look, you don't see that anymore. Kids are left to sit on thier buts with electrical devices, while the parents mow the yard. And if the kids are encouraged to do anything at all, it is more often than not sports. I really don't know why anyone would exspect them to work when they get grown.

In general, I agree with a lot of JD's post. Wife and I raised our kids with a good work ethic and it's done them well.

We have a lot of young computer engineers at work, most came on as co-ops. They have a hard time coming in by 9:00 AM. Some wander in at 11:00 or noon, looking like they just got out of bed. They're pretty smart but few have the dedication to work late to get the job done. The one programmer that does? He's a young guy we brought over from our India office. He'll do whatever I need him to do whenever I need it. I see that same attitude with the Mexicans that work at the barn I frequent. My conclusion? A lot of our kids have no idea what it means to go hungry or be without a job. Graduated from HS, went to college, got a job right out of school (heck, they got paid by us while doing their co-op terms right from their freshman year). They just don't understand how good they've got it.

I've been listening to this stuff all my life... and I've yet to figure out what one's attire has to do with their ability to drive a truck or anything else for that matter.

The general commentary of this thread... I think has more to say about the commentator, their place in life and their ability to adapt to change than it does about the original subject.

Rod

Its not just the younger ones. I've had 30 and 40 somethings not worth the powder it would take to blow their nose. Best hand I've got is 75, next best is an ex con who's in his early 40s and spent more than half his life in prison. The rest, from 20 to 50 its like pulling teeth to get them to come to work, stay at work, and do anything at work.

As to attire, it matters to me because how someone looks and presents themselves reflects on my business. Clean, sober, polite, and dressed to work instead of going to the beach matters to my clients. Most of my clients are marketing an image. We need to fit into and add to that image or we are replaceable.