Anyone work in the Coal mining business

As some of you may know the lower natural gas prices has caused the coal mining companies to take a beating. There are 2 companies that have their stock price down.......a lot.

1. Peabody energy, Stock price is now $15 per share. This company is the worlds largest coal producer operations on 6 continents. Stock prices was over 50 bux for a long time. I would like to buy this stock.

2. Alpha natural resources. Stock price is now $3.30 per share.....all time low for this too. This company was started in 2002, went public in 04.

If any of you fellas work for 1 of these companies or know of someone who does I would like to know what the overall attitude is at the company and how secure the company(s) are for the future. I have read the statements by the companies and due to coal prices being lower which is hurting profits at both.

The other stuff that effects the companies are the threat of a union strike, environmental concerns for coal, railroad issues, mine safety, and many more to list. Alpha natural resources in the last year was at 8.20 per share, continues to fall.

Mining of coal is a basic need for producing steel, generating electricity, has been cheap for looong time. Once coal prices recover then these companies will be in the black.

These companies would be a great investment if coal prices recover. Natural gas has beaten up the coal market and if NG inventories drop, or there are shortages then coal should do better.

Chime in if you have an educated opinion on this. I sure would like to help out my IRA.
Thanks in advance.

The utility that supplies most of the electricity in NH generates most of their power with a coal fired plant. They installed a very expensive scrubber system only 2-3 years ago so that they can continue to burn coal.

I live in West Virginia.There is no coal mined in the county that I live in, but I don't have to drive very far to see a coal mine. A new natural gas pipe line is coming through the center of my county, going to Virginia to provide gas to a large industrial plant that is converting from coal to gas.Mines are closing right and left in West Virginia and Virginia. People are losing jobs and small businesses that provide services to mines are shutting down. The EPA's war on coal is real and I don't see any real rebound in the near future. Unless you are a lot younger than I am, I don't think you will ever live long enough to see a huge rebound in coal stocks. Invest in Gas.

Your key word is "if". I would not buy coal stock. I think you are beating a dead horse. I see coal fired power going away. I hope I am wrong.

Showcrop
They spent over a Billion to update this plant
about 30 miles from me, still closing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brayton_Point_Power_St
ation
Brayton Point Power Station

Pauline is glad the plant is closing. But worried about the loss of jobs. What did she think was going to happen. If they close the coal mines around my county. It will turn three towns into ghost towns and devastate two others.Land prices will drop through the floor.

I think it's more the EPA being coal-hostile than it is the gas prices. Our local generation plant just converted to gas due to the new regulations, I doubt they would have done that based on fuel price.

Our's put in scrubbers in 2 boilers and is going to mothball other 2 for time being One will burn gas other oil. scrubbers are a pain glad I'm retired

I have two class mates that work in the coal industry. They both think the coal industry is dying from Federal regulations. Both are hoping it will survive long enough for them to retire and be able to draw a pension.

The EPA is the reason for the coal down turn in this country. I would NOT invest any money in a dying industry. The odds of losing it are too great. Even in good times coal related companies have been poor investments over the last fifty years or so. All it takes is one accident in one mine they own and the company tanks shortly after that. This is worse in tunnel mining but is also true with open pit mining too.

Natural gas is the darling of the moment. The backlash from the tree huggers and politicos is starting against it now. So investing in ANY energy company right now is too risky for me. Maybe if your a young person that can live through the current regulation storm maybe they will recover but I would not bet much money on it.

According to the article the plant is losing money - expect to lose $3 million in 2014. Perhaps the closing has more to do with it being 60 years old and losing money than any so called war on coal.

I think what the common person may not understand is that these coal-fired plants have already spent millions over the years upgrading systems, I know ours did. Nobody is burning dirty any more, but the government keep moving the goalposts requiring more and more each time.

I think coal will be back again one day, but it's too unpredictable when.

Buy low, sell high.

A few observations: Markets often over-compensate, creating opportunities. Industry wide predictions that are all doom and gloom can signal some long term buying opportunities for companies that are sound and well managed.

The coal industry is now in a short term slump due to low natural gas (NG) prices. Coal has traditionally been priced a little cheaper than NG. The investment for coal fired plant is also slightly higher than for a gas fired plant. Long term, the coal prices will continue to move in lock-step with NG prices. EPA regulations, mining safety standards, competition from gas and nuclear plants, labor costs, decreasing energy use during an economic recession, transportation costs, etc. were predicted to shut down the coal industry by the end of the 1970's.

Today, steel production in the US will probably continue to decrease. Changes in the cost of generate electricity are regularly and automatically passed on to consumers. What percentage of US electricity is currently generated by coal? That is not likely to change rapidly.

Take a good look at each individual company, how they have handled industry slumps in the past. There should be some long term buying opportunities within the coal industry, if you can buy on the lows.

About 40% of the US electric generation is from Coal........The biggest percentage of all.

Coal was over 60% back in the 1970s.

I think the rundown is like this now.

40% coal.
30% NG.
19-20% Nuclear
11% Renewable, Wind, hydroelectric.

Hydro electric is about 6% of the total.
Wind is about 5%.

I appreciate all the comments.
The USA has billions of tons of coal, cheapest way to generate power and heat a home. But....
I would not know where to buy rice coal for a coal/pellet burner if I decided to switch to it.

Article in todays paper said that there is more coal imported now than is exported. It is cheaper for power plants on the coasts to ship it in rather than have it brought in by rail. A seperate article said that the huge Excel coal plant in Wisconsin as well as others are falling short on deliveries because of the railroads not being able to ship it fast enough. BNSF is adding 200 more locomotives to help.

(quoted from post at 09:56:27 08/03/14) About 40% of the US electric generation is from Coal........The biggest percentage of all.

Coal was over 60% back in the 1970s.

I think the rundown is like this now.

40% coal.
30% NG.
19-20% Nuclear
11% Renewable, Wind, hydroelectric.

Hydro electric is about 6% of the total.
Wind is about 5%.

I appreciate all the comments.
The USA has billions of tons of coal, cheapest way to generate power and heat a home. But....
I would not know where to buy rice coal for a coal/pellet burner if I decided to switch to it.

Click to expand...

I buy pea coal for my coal stove from my local independently owned hardware store. It is packed by Kimmels coal service in PA

Our electric utility sends monthly magazines, this was in the last one. We toured this one previously. Heard on the news 411 coal generating plants have already closed. Hard to comprehend what's going on.

What does pea coal cost on a per weight basis?

I have never priced it out.

I have worked in the oil & Gas industry all my life and no one cared back in 1991 when the our industry was loosing thousands of jobs each month and the coal industry was going strong. Now the shoe is on the other foot and it is a war on coal. Don't get me wrong there will be a day when they figure out how to liquifiy coal and burn what they call clean coal and coal will start booming again. I think the gov is working with the coal industry to develop the clean coal. I think that some of the power plants have reached there life cycles and instead of the power companies fessing up that they have just been taking in all the money from all of us over the years and either not upgrading the old plants or working on new ones it is easier to tell everyone that the EPA is attacking them and we will all have to pay through for it so there stocks will not drop

The town I live in was the largest coal producing town in the US during WWI. We have over 10,000 acres of barren wasteland, covered with worthless junk timber and weeds that don't even grow, right on top of boney piles and red dog and subsoil that mimics the surface of the moon more than a place on earth.

Before mandatory reclamation, the common practice was to create a cut in the ground, push the overburden up behind the cut, extract the coal, then push the next cut of overburden into the previous one, leaving the first cuts overburden piled up. It creates rings of overburden pushed up in the air 100+ feet high, along the contours of the ground.



Now, our town is near the center of the biggest play in natural gas, in the history of the US. I can tell you first hand that there will not be a shortage of natural gas as long as politicians allow the companies to extract the gas. All the controversy about contaminating water, and polluting the air; surrounds the drilling like flies on... well, you get the picture.


There was no controversy concerning the coal extraction, that ruined our town; because, there were no regulations when the coal was taken from this area. Also, if it wasn't for the coal, the towns around here would not even exist in the first place. It could never happen again, on such a massive scale, to ever dominate the production of natural gas.

If I were to

Where are you located John? Im Thinking Indiana way? i know Ive
asked before but I cant remember

I have to say that the coal mines employed my dad for years. He was a warehouse man. They also help employ most of the people in my hometown as there are 2 large coal plants with in 3 miles. 4 with in 25 miles. I started working in the booming natural gas industry. Thats how I see my life going, work while its booming and then it will be regulated out and I'll have to look elsewhere. In my opinion coal will always be around as its cheap and still plentiful. But we do need to work to make it cleaner. It has come a long way from the old days but it could still use a lot of work.

-Keith, who has seen both sides and raised around coal but works for natural gas

(quoted from post at 11:50:31 08/03/14) What does pea coal cost on a per weight basis?

I have never priced it out.

Click to expand...

I buy it in fifty lb bags by the pallet. One pallet gets me through a cold winter. I believe that it is about $8.75 per bag. easily the lowest cost BTUs that can be bought.

I have several cousins that work for Peabody in the Powder River Basin in WY. My BIL works for Basin Electric in ND. In Hazen ND They run the largest and most successful coal gasification plant in the world. None of them think there is a future in it. The future seems to be in tearing those powerplans down . So I was hanging out with my cousin a coal miner in Morecroft WY, and the propane guy came by and filled up the 1000 tank.His house has a coal furnace in it and he gets coal for free. So I asked him about it. He said that " Coal is dirty and it stinks". I did not mention the ironey, that the president feels the same way . The president is not popular in the coal producing areas of WY, a understatement. I didn't mention this to my cousin caus he would have killed me and and either buried me in one of those great big holes or with a D 11 Cat or dumped me in some remore canyon where the coyotes would eat me.

My uncles worked in the mines. The Susquehanna river flooded the mines in my area and that ended the deep mined coal business here. Most coal now is strip mined. There is still coal mined in my county.
I pay $200.00 a ton delivered for rice coal.
Anthracite coal (hard coal) produces a nice blue flame just like natural gas.

Somehow my picture got blow up too big, and the rest of my post got cut off. I guess I am not good at the internet.


FullersFarmalls,

Yes, I am not near Indiana, I am near Burgettstown, PA. It's a big difference in maps, but a small difference in how the land is treated.



I think you are near a town south of Blairsville where my buddy lived while going to Wyotech.







My post messed up the format of this whole thread. Not sure how that happened. I also lost the last part of my post.


What I can say is that things around here have not gotten better after the coal boom. The workers moved away, and the locals that stayed aren't doing too well. Coal was the main reason anyone moved here. There is a reason why there is a road named after my family, and why They helped to name the township. There is also a reason they fought in the revolutionary war and the war of 1812. It wasn't coal. They don't matter much, as the bulk of the people moved here after the railroad and the coal. Now, the railroad and coal are both gone. Nothing left on the barren land. The land was given to the PA Game Commission. That is the most corrupt bunch of butt holes to ever grace the surface of this planet.


Nothing ever got better, only worse. If I could fix things, I would. No one will ever have a clue as to what the impact has been, and no one cares.


It's those that have been here for the whole ride that know, and there aren't many left. It's bad.





What I do know is that it can't happen again, even though small coal still moves in occasionally. It's not big coal to come in. There are places big coal could thrive, but they can't because they have already lost the environmental battle. The ones that survive are the gas companies. It's much less impact, much less disturbance, and in general, much less stress. They will win.

Coal will be around. But, will it ever heat as many homes as natural gas will? NOT A CHANCE! EVER! Don't fool yourself. It won't happen.


This is a sore subject for me, because I live this everyday and I know what happens. Anyone who can step into my shoes and prove me wrong, please do.


Invest in gas, not coal. It just won't make you money. I hear Oats are a good investment due to the nat gas back-up of the railroads in Canada. The best stock to hit the modern market was actually the oats commodity. IT went from a low of $2, to a high of near $4.50. If you had your money only in oats, you would have been a profit.

Say you had $200,000 in oats. Hold that until the winter scare, and now you have $450,000 in oats, in less than 1 year. That's an investment. But who would dump their whole nine yards into oats?


It's a matter of knowing things before it happens. My claim is that I know powerplants are closing, the coal is leaving in mass droves, and natural gas is arriving.


This is just my opinion. Take it as such, but if you could be me, you would see where to hedge and where to pull back completely.