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What would you do...

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Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
I have an MX track where people either pay a for a day pass or buy a season pass allowing access when I can't be there. A guy who had a season's pass a few years ago has been going to the track and riding with a friend without my knowledge or consent. Some of my track sponsors were at the track last Friday and that's how I found out. I know it's not the first time. Should I ban him from the track or tell him I need $400 to cover two season passes. His buddy and him ride quads and most tracks don't even allow quads because they polish the corners and kind of wreck them for bikes. I'm NOT happy. Looking for some good suggestions on the best way to handle it. I have changed the combination but it wouldn't be hard to get in other ways. At lest they can't drive a truck in.
 

Sounds like you need a sign posting the consequences of trespassing along with the properly posted no trespassing signs.
 
Maybe tell him he has been caught. Ask him how many times he has used the track without paying and ask him why he thinks he shouldn't pay you a day pass for those times. Now I'm not dumb enough to think he will tell you of every time but he might admit to a lesser amount and pay you something. At any rate it should stop him from doing it again.
 
Ban him.Put it in writing and post it.If you try to make him pay...he would say "screw you"!And he would probably continue to ride/trespass.By banning,you put yourself in the 'drivers seat' and possibly be able to press charges if he ignors the ban.Just my humble(and 'uneducated') opinion.
 
Your house your rules they don't like it beat it find somewhere else to ride.i pay every time with out a problem,I look it at this way.someone letting me ride on there property and they have a cover charge that's good because I'm riding and I don't have to worry about cops or trespassing.
 
There is a big no trespassing sign at the gate. What
really gets me is it's not someone I would have ever
suspected of abusing the rules. I spent a lot of
money buying the land and building and maintaining
the track. To make things worse he brings along
someone else. Has he brought other riders and/or
told anyone else the combination?
 
Hi I"d be thinking he was done at your place and if you catch him call the cops for trespass.
If he"s illegally on your property and has an accident, who do you think he might try suing?, I guess you have insurance for members, or something like that.
Regards Robert
 
Card Access......know when they entered....if they don't pay simple click on computer denies them access. Our local gun club has card access plus camera system .....very effective in keeping non-members out. Not too expensive for what you are doing....
Good Luck,
Andy
 
Collecting back fees will be very difficult. I would ban him. There are probably more people doing the same thing. If you have pictures I would could charge him with trespassing and send the law to have a talk to him.

If you don't have a surveillance system you may be SOL.
 
Ban him and ask him to pay for past use. If he won't pay take him to small claims court if you can prove he was there. put up a camera so you can see who is abusing you,
 

I agree with belgian. You at least get a few bucks, have a chance to hear his side,see if he's honest and issue aproprate warning. It's not uncommon for paying members to assume they have guest privialages so talk to the paying member also to make sure he understands the rules.
 
That's just part of dealing with the public, it takes all kinds.

Think I would give him a call or catch him at the property, which ever is most practical. Tell him you know what's going on and it's going to stop. Let him decide if he wants to buy another season or pay each day. I wouldn't expect to get any back pay from him unless you can document each visit.

Changing the combination might have to be a regular thing. Used to do some work at a marina, they changed the combo to the storage facilities every 30 days, emailed the new combo to everyone that was in good standing.
 
Neither of them had a pass to ride and it's pretty
clear a season's pass is for one person over 18 or a
family living in the same house, not riding buddies.
He was riding illegally for how many times, I don't
know, but he got caught. I'm debating if I should
make an example out of him to try and stop other
people from doing the same thing.
 
Ban him and his buddy and tell him they'll be arrested for trespassing if you catch them on your property again, even if they're on foot. Post a prominent notice at the track saying they are banned and why. Leave some room for additional names in case somebody else tries to stiff you. Do not under any circumstances accept repayment from them.

The point here is not to recoup your lost admission fees, but rather to discourage anyone else from cheating.
 
Definitely considering that depending on what he says. I just don't want him to do any vandalism or something like that if I make an example out of him.
 
Do the other paying riders sign a form holding you blameless if something happens to them on your property? Or does the 400.00 also cover their insurance if they get hurt. He is the first one to take you to court if something happens to him on your land. get him off, or make him pay up. You might want to put up a camera. Stan
 
If you are an hour away and have no security system, there may not be much you can do. It sounds like the members are all on the honor system.

You should talk to the local law enforcement to see what you can do. If you are unlicensed and uninsured, don't be too surprised if they consider it "an attractive hazard" and they don't get involved until there is an injury.
 
Just some things I would do/consider:

I would talk directly to the person involved. I would approach him in firm but non confrontational manner. Let him know right off you know he has been there multiple times, this way he does not know how many time you know of. Then start in with how it is not fair to the season pass holders for him to be riding there without paying for the privilege of riding there. Use the word privilege. Your giving the riders the privilege to ride on your track. Then asked him directly what he thinks is fair to pay for riding on your track. If he low balls it real bad then point out to him what an annual pass costs. If he comes up with a reasonable amount then use that and try to work out some type of payment.

IF he completely denies being there then ban him and throw the book at him.

Yes he is in the total wrong not paying to ride but I have found that the more cane I raise the less I accomplish. Revenge feels good for a short while but rarely last long.

You are also dealing with the public and live an hour away. Your not in the position to really play hard ball with a local for several reasons. 1) He can do things to you that you can do little to combat. 2) He can ride your name down to a lot of local people. If you live an hour away your the outsider.

You work with the public in your job if I remember correctly. You know you sometimes have to smile while your gritting your teeth at work. This deal is real similar. If you can keep things cool and collected it will work out better than starting a fight that you maybe right on but easily could lose the battle on.
 
Serve a criminal trespass order on him. You can use that to banish him from the property for up to one year at a time. Have him sign the order acknowledging that he's read it... and if he breaches it he can be charged. I'd also expect it might help to lessen your indemnity if he hurts himself on the property while he's not supposed to be there...
I'd also suggest you keep things somewhat discreet... no public posting of his name, etc. That may open another kettle with privacy information.

Rod
 
I would ASSUME you have some type of liability insurance for this venture?

You might ask the ins. Co. if you are covered for this sort of trespass and how you can deal with it in a manner to control your liability.

BEFORE something happens and you have to deal with it from that angle.
 
Just tell him no more guest's, let it go at that, and make sure it doesn't continue. No need to make this into a major incident just because you prefer drama over rational behavior.
 
I have a place with a lake and trails. My insurance co. told me even with no tresspassing signs, if someone gets hurt on my property, it's my problem.

BETTER HAVE GOOD INSURANCE, we added a blanket policy to ours.
 
Bet he will tell you this was the first time he's been at your track in 2 years.

If you make him mad, you may make his friend mad too and then you have lost one good paying person.

Cut your losses, make him pay for they day you know he was there.

Perhaps you could have a seasion pass plus a friend for more money to cover just this.
 
People's understanding of "what's allowed" evolves over time.

You've got to expect that with people.

It's natural for somebody to push a little past what you consider a hard and fast rule, not even in a sneaky way, just because they're not sure.

Then nobody says anything - so they get the sense that it's allowed.

Then a little more... and more. For them it all feels like no big deal.

People are funny like that.

Next thing you know they're thinking things are just fine, but they're WAY beyond what YOU thought the rules were.

Some are a lot worse in that regard than others, but it almost always happens because of some ambiguity.

Even written rules don't always work if they're not ALL enforced - they can seem like legal chatter at the end of a radio ad to people.

I'd say all you've got to do is talk to the guy.

Just reel him back in to your version of the rules. Make it clear. That there are rules, and they are enforced, and that's that.

Now - if you do that and THEN he pushes - that's when I'd start thinking about some kind of punishment - revoking his pass etc.
 
I would give him a chance to make things right first. At least for this year anyway. Write off last year, but don't mention it to him. Just concentrate on this year.
 
Talk to all your paying riders.
No names, but tell them you are having trouble with trespassers and non-payers.
And if you can't get it straightened out, you'll have to shut down the whole place.
The riders are local, you aren't, and ya might be surprised how fast the locals can, um, have a talk with the bad apples.

Having some local residents checking on a remote camp/place
works well too. They will know everybody. AND the would be trespassers know the local resident will be keeping an eye out.
And neighbors that know everyone and their families won't have to go all legal on em. They'll just tell them to git, and they'll git.
Give the neighbors that do the checking total access at all times.
The bad guys will never know when they are there or not there.
Don't even bother with officialdom. If they are like the young 4-wheeler,
dirt bikers around here, won't scare em and they won't care a bit.
 
Ask him why he thinks he should be able to ride at no cost. That makes him face what he's doing and realizing its wrong. If he's got any character, he will pay up or quit coming.
 
I was always curious about setting something like that up. I have some relation with an abandoned gravel pit and a lot of acres that would really be good for mud runs and trails and such.
Is a signed waiver really going to keep the landowner from being sued ? Especially in this day and age ?

I know of a place that set up a shooting range. Has a mail box at end of lane if flags up someone else is back there you have to wait. You still need to sign in and leave some money in the box for him. Based on the honor system. Thought it was a clever idea for a side income. Don't know how it is working out for the fellow ?
 

Good advice JD. Don't start out mad or threatening. Let him know in a calm and professional manner that you know he's in the wrong, and that you run a business. If he can't pay his way or can't operate according to the rules, then you simply can't have him there. End of story. That's all the example you need to make of him too, word will get around quick.
 
Does your insurance company know that you have this MX track? I can just about tell you straight up that if someone gets a serious injury on your place while riding you are in for a lawsuit..........Too many lawyers out there.

And tell that yahoo who is tresspassing that you are going to call the cops on him.
 
(quoted from post at 11:13:24 07/15/14) Talk to all your paying riders.
No names, but tell them you are having trouble with trespassers and non-payers.
And if you can't get it straightened out, you'll have to shut down the whole place.
The riders are local, you aren't, and ya might be surprised how fast the locals can, um, have a talk with the bad apples.

Having some local residents checking on a remote camp/place
works well too. They will know everybody. AND the would be trespassers know the local resident will be keeping an eye out.
And neighbors that know everyone and their families won't have to go all legal on em. They'll just tell them to git, and they'll git.
Give the neighbors that do the checking total access at all times.
The bad guys will never know when they are there or not there.
Don't even bother with officialdom. If they are like the young 4-wheeler,
dirt bikers around here, won't scare em and they won't care a bit.
Click to expand...

That's a damn good bunch of advice right there.
 
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