Military pistols............

Goose · Jul 3, 2014

I read an article on the 'Net that the Army is looking to replace the 9mm pistols with something harder hitting. They've finally realized the 9mm just won't cut it. I could have told them that, years ago.

According to feedback I got from those who were there in Iraq, and I assume Afghanistan, the good old 1911 .45 was still the handgun of choice for Marines. They said if you shoot someone with a 9mm, all you do is pizz them off. If you nail them with the good old .45, they're down.

Several years ago, I had to put down two stray dogs who were chasing our renter's kids. A 9mm pistol was the first thing handy. It took 2 vital organ shots and a direct head shot on each dog to put it down. I haven't had much use for 9mm since.

Dick2 · Jul 3, 2014

That brought back a memory. One of Dad's cousins came to visit after the end of WWII. He had a German Luger 9mm (I think) that he had taken off of a dead officer.

He said that he and a buddy were on patrol and saw this foxhole with the dead officer in it. Also in the foxhole was a German camera and the Luger the officer was wearing. They discussed the possibility of a booby trap, but the other fellow decided it wasn't and picked up the camera - it was booby trapped and his buddy was killed. Dad's cousin took the Luger before he left the area - it wasn't booby trapped.

TomH in PA · Jul 3, 2014

They're saying the .45 is too heavy and has too much recoil. I suppose that's true, until you actually need it.

JF in MI · Jul 3, 2014

I have a bunch of 9mm and some 45s. The problem is the 9mm ammo used by the military (solid point by treaty) passes through flesh too easily. 45 is already the size that a 9mm hollow point will expand to and not only moves slower but has almost the weight of 2 9mm slugs. That said, I don"t find the 45 recoil any more difficult than any of my 9s. Just my 2 cents.

Ultradog MN · Jul 3, 2014

With more and more women in combat units they had to use a handgun that was girl friendly.
Maybe they'll rethink the whole women in combat deal along with the puny 9mms.

dzc3 · Jul 3, 2014

a large raccoon can take 2 body shots with a 9mm and limp off to die. I love my 45 may seem heavy until you get use to it. I also like the 7.62x25 round. It's fast, flat and accurate.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 3, 2014

I like my 9mm also 380, haven't had any raccoons or groundhogs run off. The military is testing the .357 sig. in the small frame autos I have heard. The old .45 may well be history.

wisbaker · Jul 3, 2014

I did a remote tour in Greece well in the Air Force, our Maintenance Supervisor was a women. Due to some screw-ups and misaligned priorities by the thieves in supply at our so called "Support base" and general mismanagement of personnel and materials about 1/2 way through this tour of duty the newbies coming in weren't qualified on the .38. The solution was to run all through training and start using M-9s. Our Maintenance Supervisor didn't have enough strength in her wrists to point the pistol UP and rack the slide to chamber a round. Then the Greeks decided we couldn't use their range. Ended up putting a GAU-5 in the command post and insuring each shift was scheduled with at least one person qualified on the .38 and at least 1 qualified on the GAU-5. I was qualified on both so depending on the shift I could be signed for one or two pistols or one pistol and the GAU-5.

Of course the Air Force topped itself when they sent me to Saudi for Desert Shield, I wasn't really qualified with anything (Qual expired), but was kind of 1/2 way legal on a .38, so they sent me with a .38, but they didn't have any .38 ammo so they gave me 18 rounds of 5.56.

old · Jul 3, 2014

That is why I love my 44mag. Big enough to stop any animal that we have in any of the 50 states. As for the 1911 45 it does have one bad thing and that is that it is only good to around 25 yards if you really want to hit the target as per boot camp NAVY

David G · Jul 3, 2014

I think the rangers carried a .45, my neighbor is retired and still carries his.

BushogPapa · Jul 3, 2014

Guess I will be more careful around Boobies now...

Ron.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 3, 2014

I spent 13 years as a deputy sheriff and anouther 13 years as a firefighter parametic in county in northern California with a city (Richmond) that seemed always in the top 10 (or close) of the highest murder rates in the nation. It would be an unusual week without a murder. Many of the victumes were young, tough fit guys, paroled right out of the prison excerse yards. Anyone that thinks a 9MM, even hardball, is not effective man stopper, has not responded to as many shootings as I have.

jennifer408 · Jul 3, 2014

(quoted from post at 16:27:19 07/03/14) With more and more women in combat units they had to use a handgun that was girl friendly.
Maybe they'll rethink the whole women in combat deal along with the puny 9mms.

I've got a 45 that i love, i don't have a problem shooting it one bit.

jennifer408 · Jul 3, 2014

(quoted from post at 19:55:29 07/03/14) I spent 13 years as a deputy sheriff and anouther 13 years as a firefighter parametic in county in northern California with a city (Richmond) that seemed always in the top 10 (or close) of the highest murder rates in the nation. It would be an unusual week without a murder. Many of the victumes were young, tough fit guys, paroled right out of the prison excerse yards. Anyone that thinks a 9MM, even hardball, is not effective man stopper, has not responded to as many shootings as I have.

yes, i live way south of there but that is one city i would drive clean around, time and mileage don't matter.

Tom Bond · Jul 3, 2014

I bought S&W M&P .45c a few months back as a duty weapon. Absolutely the best purchase I ever made. Not too heavy and packs a wallop with the correct ammunition. The weight is comparable to a .380 or 9mm with several more rounds but the ballistics just aren't there with the smaller caliber. If needed, I'll take a few less rounds with more punch and correctly placed over something that's just going to slow an objective down. Just my opinion.

Mark - IN. · Jul 3, 2014

Back in the '70's when I was in high school, one of my cousins was murdered with a .22. He was shot three times in the head from about 10' away they calculated. All three shots penetrated and entered his skull. Two shots were angled after he would have dropped down to the ground they figured, so I'm guessing that the first one was fatal.

Tonight I called and told my mother and sisters that with all of the fireworks going off over yonder around the countryside, that tomorrow will be a good day to take them out to get reaquainted with some of their firearms. They come over quarterly and just did it a couple few weeks ago, but tomorrow before turkey on the weber oughta work just fine as well. .38, .38, .380, and a .41 is what all four generally carry.

Anyway, be careful, safe, and familiar. Enjoy your 4th as well.

Mark

oldtanker · Jul 3, 2014

(quoted from post at 18:39:16 07/03/14) That is why I love my 44mag. Big enough to stop any animal that we have in any of the 50 states. As for the 1911 45 it does have one bad thing and that is that it is only good to around 25 yards if you really want to hit the target as per boot camp NAVY

HMMM in the Army we were always trained and qualified up to 50 meters with the 45. We shot 25 meters on fixed paper target ranges and 15 to 50 on pop ups.

When we were issued the 45 we were also taught one shot per target but with the M9 double tap. That speaks volumes to me. The so called advantage of the 15 round mag disappeared. 7 in the mag and one in the chamber would take down 8 enemies. one in the chamber and 15 in the mag would take down 8.

Rick

D beatty · Jul 3, 2014

Every body talks about shots over 25 yard and farther.But a gun used for self defense it is rare to make a shot over 20 feet. Even military pistols are ment for close quarters.

Mark - IN. · Jul 4, 2014

No, no, no, never be careful around boo...

Mark

Anonymous-0 · Jul 4, 2014

I think you are excersing great and wise judgement. Spent 20+ years of my life in that s$it hole. One thing I can say is that I was never bored.Some good people live there. Did I see suffering that most can't imagine ? Yes. Was I ever terrified ? Yes. Did I ever make a difference ????????

MarkB_MI · Jul 4, 2014

My stepson served with the Marines in Iraq and participated in the assault on Fallujah. He carried the standard M9 in addition to his M16. I don't know what you mean by "handgun of choice", because a Marine carrying a .45 in Iraq would have been a rare exception.

The relative merits of the 9mm versus .45 ACP have been debated for decades. The decision by the US military to switch to 9mm was driven by the desire to standardize on a NATO cartridge, not by any theory that the 9mm is a superior cartridge.

There have been limited procurements of .45 ACP pistols, but those have been for special operations units.

Bret4207 · Jul 4, 2014

I can tell you this much, I started out carrying a Smith 357, a 681 to be precise, and never had any worries. Then we went to Glock 9mm's with the miserable 147 sub-sonic ammo because at that time the Famous But Incompetent recommended it as the most baddest ammo you could get. It was bad alright, really bad. I was lots happier with the Smith. I ended my career with a Glock 45GAP. Nice gun, good round.

Still liked my Smith better but I was a rural Trooper, not an inner city cop on a beat.

Goose · Jul 4, 2014

A year or two ago, the Marine Corps purchases $22 million worth of 1911A .45's and parts. I wouldn't call that a "limited procurement".

Dachshund · Jul 4, 2014

My wife handles her .44 Mag and her .45 just fine. ANY caliber round has the POTENTIAL to kill, but nothing (except a few oddball rounds) has more stopping power then a .45. The Army never was very bright, but, then again they teach max lead down range, instead of targeting.

MarkB_MI · Jul 4, 2014

22 million is chump change for defense contracts. That bought the Marines a measly 4036 pistols, plus spares and support. The USMC has about 80,000 M9 pistols in its inventory.

oldtanker · Jul 4, 2014

(quoted from post at 21:49:35 07/03/14) Every body talks about shots over 25 yard and farther.But a gun used for self defense it is rare to make a shot over 20 feet. Even military pistols are ment for close quarters.

While you are correct I was answering the claim that the .45 was only good for 25 yards. Most self defense shooting are under 20 feet. But the Army trained us that we could engage the enemy further out. They really didn't want us getting within that 20 foot range.

MarkB: There were reports that came out about 5-6 years ago about different weapons carried in Iraq and Afghanistan and what the troops favored. They said that the Marines had a limited number of 1911's for regular operations. It went on to say that there had been reports of fist fights over who got to carry them. I don't know how much truth was in the report but that's what it said.

Rick

colekicker · Jul 4, 2014

The government studied this in early 1900's. That's how we adopted the 1911 in 45ACP until replacing it with a 9mm in 1985. Savage had a 9mm in the running against the Colt 1911, but it didn't have enough stopping power for trench warfare. They tested them both on steers and cadavers in Chicago. It was well documented in the Army Navy Journal that the 45ACP was a superior round. They should just re-adopt the 1911 and be done with it.

Dan T in MO · Jul 4, 2014

Hmmm... My brother supplements his income in the winter by trapping coon, possum, beaver, muskrat, bobcat or whatever he can get a good pelt off of. His pistol of choice is a revolver loaded with .22 shorts.

Bret4207 · Jul 5, 2014

(quoted from post at 17:13:30 07/04/14) Hmmm... My brother supplements his income in the winter by trapping coon, possum, beaver, muskrat, bobcat or whatever he can get a good pelt off of. His pistol of choice is a revolver loaded with .22 shorts.

Shooting a trapped animal in the head is a lot different than shooting someone that's making a determined effort to kill you.

Military pistols............

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