(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Buick-Deere et.al. Solar Net-metering rip-offs

J

JDemaris

Well-known Member
Mr. Buick-Deere . . in regard to solar electric and grid-tie (what you called net metering).

I just got back to my main NY home that has a grid-tie solar-electric system. Over 7 months of solar energy being "stored" by the power company since the house was empty and utilities mostly shut off all winter.

Last month's bill (April-May) showed a credit of 3,119 KWHs of power. That is ALL surplus that the power company was holding for us.

Just got this months new bill for May-June. ALL GONE. They took it all and sold it to someone else and we got NOTHING. No credit, no money. That is what most power companies do now adays. They end their fiscal year at an odd and unannounced time and it's to plan on when it happens (the zeroing of the account).

So this month - we are back to zero. Have a negative 400-something KWH for this month since the sun has been out a lot.
a159775.jpg

a159776.jpg
 
Net metering has only been around for 9-10 years. To this day - even though it exists by Federal mandate - there no standard. Some power companies hold power for one year and then pocket the money. Others pay a fee to the producer - sometimes at a reduced wholesale rate. Where I am -at first we were paid for the extra power. No more.
 
Yes. What throws me off is the bill that says "5th anniversary month." That fools me every year thinking I'm only in the middle of the cycle. It was really the end. At the next bill - i.e. the "6th month" they wiped out my credit and sent me back to zero.

If I get around to actually preparing for the big credit wipe out - I might find a way to use some of that extra power. Like using an electric clothes dryer or electric hot-water heater instead of propane. Or - doing some big welding projects.

My main complaint is - huge amounts of tax dollars and political hot-air was used to promote "alternative energy" in the USA. That's how net metering and incentives came into existence. When it started - power companies were supposed to pay independent producers for power they sent into the grid (like me). Now many are backing out -quietly. Doesn't make the news so few people complain.
 
In Indiana there was a bill in the capital which was to require power companies to pay customers who generate more power than they take; but I don't think it went anywhere.
 
I looked into it with my coop. Let's just say they were less than enthusiastic. Same thing happened for an Indiana client near Chicago.

Solar wasn't in my future, would have to mow down too many trees. My plan is for a high head micro-hydro. Pond is the storage. I wanted to raise fish anyway. First step is to install the first windmill.

Hoping eventually to tell my coop to take a hike.
 
jdemaris:

What would be your cost per KWH if you were using THEIR power; now multiply that figure times YOUR 3119 KWH's ; bet it comes to over $250. ; - that's THEFT !

Power companies want to hold US legally liable if we steal power from them; so the REVERSE should hold true. - What's good for the Goose should be good for the Gander - . Sounds to me like it's time to get a Lawyer and hold the Power Company liable for their actions.

:>)
 
It is already the case .Why do you think these major corporations build Co-Gens .So they can generate their own and sell the excess back to the power co.
 
I suppose the other side of the coin is that they maintain an overhead infrastructure to keep you connected and they receive nothing in return for that service... that negates your need to have a huge bank for the cloudy days. I see your point... but there is their side too...

Rod
 
A friend of mine put up a wind turbine on his property. The Co-op he is a member of helped him jump through the zoning hoops, and get his help(rebates) from the government(us).
After all was said and done, they hung a meter on the wind turbine tower, in addition to his house meter.
The way that works is he sells the electricity the turbine produces for WHOLESALE, and buys the electricity he uses for RETAIL. He told me it would take the life of the turbine to break even.
 
Couple summers ago the REA was paying guys to run their generators to keep the power on in the mid-north part of the state. They are working on getting a new hi tension line run up that way, but people are trying to stop them from putting it along the highway, don"t want to "ruin the view", and there"s "perfectly good" county roads to run it alongside. Trouble is a perfectly good county road isn"t so good when you consider that when the line needs worked on, it"s usually rained, and the road"s turned to muck.
 
when i looked into solar several years ago in wis, i was told the law in wis was up to 20kw the power company is required to run meter backwards, more than 20kw you have to negotiate the rate. im on timeofday metering,more during day 18cper kw,less at night 11centskw.thought was a good deal, since solar was charging during day at higher rate. over 100k for 20kw system, didnt do it
 
Well . . . if we were to look at who is doing what for who . I've got 80 acres of woods with three power line right-of-ways running through it. I gave them permission to build an access road to maintain the biggest one. So in a way - I am helping THEM to maintain their infrastructure that connects to others so they can make money.
 
I have no use for any of nnalert's crew. I put little Barry and nnalert in the same group of people I cannot stand.
 
That 3119 KWH of power would of been 8 months for me without solar. That would of been near $600. And yes - in my opinion they stole it. When I first signed up - there was no mention of this happening. Just that I'd get credit for the extra power.
 
Commercial solar gets a different deal then residential solar. They get more incentive money to build and often a lot more payment for what they produce.
 
The only reason that they will get away with it is if good people stand idly by and let it happen.

If you sit there and wait for someone else to complain about it, then nobody will. It's time to make a stink. Write a letter to the editor in the newspaper. At least one of the television stations in your area has some sort of fraud hotline, and they love a well-written, easy to understand story. You've probably got a conservative radio station that offers "open line day" or a part of the show where anyone can call about anything, or an ask-the-lawyer show.

Legally there isn't anything you can do because it is likely stipulated in whatever service contract you've signed, that terms are subject to change without notice. All you really need to have happen is for others to hear what is going on.
 
(quoted from post at 16:08:34 06/11/14) A friend of mine put up a wind turbine on his property. The Co-op he is a member of helped him jump through the zoning hoops, and get his help(rebates) from the government(us).
After all was said and done, they hung a meter on the wind turbine tower, in addition to his house meter.
The way that works is he sells the electricity the turbine produces for WHOLESALE, and buys the electricity he uses for RETAIL. He told me it would take the life of the turbine to break even.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah. Power plants get paid wholesale, and that's what that wind turbine became when it was put on a separate meter.

How would it be fair to the power plant operators for some yahoo with a little wind turbine to be paid RETAIL for the little bit of power he produces, while the power plant gets WHOLESALE? That's how business works. Buy wholesale, sell retail. You're supposed to be pro-business.

It would have paid off much more quickly if he had connected the turbine to his residential meter, because then you're getting "paid" retail for the electricity you don't buy from the power company. Any excess would only yield a wholesale rate. It's only fair.
 
I'd be "beating a dead horse" complaining here. I'm
trying to sell out and get the heck out of this
abundant paradise of NY where a sling-shot is a
"firearm."

I'm going to move to my other place in northern
Michigan and probably take the solar with me. So my
issue - if any -will be with Presque Isle Electric &
Gas and no longer with National Grid.
 
Don't the big guys that own the 450 ft. wind turbines get a pretty big subsidies for the electric produced for the grid. If they were not heavily subsidized I do not think you would see any wind farms. At one time it waw 50-50. Why do you think NYC Banks like Citigroup and Goldman-Sachs are into it so heavily.
 
I wonder if that $600 went staight to Spain. Do you know how we lost Niagara Mohawk? I know Niagara Mohawk was a good stock and payed a fair dividend. I had a few shares I had to surrender .or they would be declared worthless when National Grid took over.
Is there any other state that lets a country like Spain to buy a major utility and take it private,
 

The same companies that are in the petrochemical industry are also into green energy for the carbon credits.
At one time solar was paid 80.2 cents per Kw . Wind was either 13.5 or 14.5 cents per Kw hr.
Power before all the delivery , debt retirement, transmission losses etc etc are added is 7.5, 11.2 or 13.5 cents per Kw.
My last power bil all in was 17.5 cents US per Kw hr.
 
It's happened with other companies too. 20 miles from me has NYSEG instead of National Grid. NYSEG is also foreign owner. Great Britian. Didn't we become a new nation by throwing the Britts out around over 200 years ago? Add insult to injury - much of our power comes from Canada. I have no issue with Canada (except they don't allow me there) . . . it IS a foreign country.
 
That was generous of you to do that at no benefit to yourself. I wouldn't do that unless they paid me, they expropriated it or there was some other benefit to me... such as having a road into my woodlot.

Rod
 
The way it works here... there are a couple of different schemes. For small scale projects, with special approval... they have a community infeed tariff rate that pays I think 17.5 cents... so they can sell into the grid at that rate... then buy it back at retail of about 10.5 cents. That's more for the syngas type operations running gensets. The large scale wind farms here have to play on standard generation rates of mabey 4.5 cents or something IIRC. That said... I think a lot of the wind turbines were used for peaking and they were given access to preferential rates for that supply... and I'd say that's where they make their money. I have no idea what other government subsidies they receive here. To my knowledge it's not great other than mabey some loan guarantees...

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 07:23:29 06/13/14) The way it works here... there are a couple of different schemes. For small scale projects, with special approval... they have a community infeed tariff rate that pays I think 17.5 cents... so they can sell into the grid at that rate... then buy it back at retail of about 10.5 cents. That's more for the syngas type operations running gensets. The large scale wind farms here have to play on standard generation rates of mabey 4.5 cents or something IIRC. That said... I think a lot of the wind turbines were used for peaking and they were given access to preferential rates for that supply... and I'd say that's where they make their money. I have no idea what other government subsidies they receive here. To my knowledge it's not great other than mabey some loan guarantees...

Until recently in Ontario wind turbines had priority. Even in the middle of the night at lowest grid demand if there was wind. There were times that hydro electric was spilling water and Hydro One was paying Michigan to take power. While paying wind turbines were being paid 13.5 cents.

Rod
Click to expand...
 
Funny... we're continuously told by the talking heads that we have the highest electric rates in the country here in NS. Seems they're wrong...
How'd that deregulation thing work out for you guys?

Rod
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Geo-TH,In
Solar Energy: property taxes and net metering
Replies
11
Views
369
Vito
Vito
W
Hey, Buick and Deere
Replies
9
Views
2K
buickanddeere
B
A
OT: Tricks we used in our energy efficient house
Replies
19
Views
4K
Anonymous-0
A
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top