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ok, some facts about our solar system

J

jennifer408

Well-known Member
we have 10-253watt solar panels and a 48volt inverter so we have a 2.53k/48volt system. the solar panels, charge controller, inverter and misc wire, conduit etc.. cost $ 6550.00/25years=262/12months=21.83 per month.

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the batteries are l-16 deep cycle,lead acid, 6v ea. 8 of them cost $ 2400.00/8years=$300.00/12months=$25.00 per month.
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our well water pump cost $1200.00 plus $300.00 for pipe,wire etc...we had the panels laying around so no cost for panels, so right now our water cost $1500.00/25years=$60.00/12months=$ 5.00 per month. we plan on buying 6 solar panels which will cost $3000./25years=$120.00/12months=$10.00 so in time our water will cost us $15.00 per month.
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so, total cost:
solar panels etc... $21.83
batteries $25.00
water $ 5.00
total $51.00 per month.

yes, we paid up front, but im sure someone would have loved to loan us the money and charged us something stupid in interest, no thanks. we own it free and clear.
we run a fridge,deep freezer,2 laptops,satellite internet.microwave, washer and propane drier, lights,fans, we have a air conditioner in the bedroom that we run during the day when needed. we have a back up generator that we run when it gets cloudy for too long ( added expense that i did not include ) we use about 20gallons of gasoline per year. also we have a generator that we use to weld with.
disclaimer:
these are our solar facts, im sure yours will vary so go price it yourself and if they vary, don't come crying to me. also for all the doubting Thomasa's and name callers: i couldn't give a rats arse what you think so don't bother wasting everyone's time. thank you. :)
 
Thanks Jennifer, looks good to me. I don't understand the hate some posters on here have toward Solar power.
 
Thank you for clarifing.I know the system(s) are not
cheap.I have a neighbor down the road who is 100%
solar/generator(alternative power).He chose NOT to
hook to the grid. He likes it,but has had a few
problems,the biggest of which was he didnt have
enough batterys.Added a few(?) and all the problems
seem to have been fixed.I admire him(and you too)
for his resolve to be Self sufficent.Other folks in the more remote areas have similar systems.
 
Jennifer, found your information quite interesting. I have read several articles in magazines such as Mother Earth News about people who were living off the grid, mainly because location made it cost prohibitive to subscribe to a public power source. I have been quite interested in such for some time and were I able, would give serious consideration to installing it myself. Let me say,I LOVE your disclaimer. Very well stated!
 
Heyseed, I agree. I believe it is mostly a matter of misunderstanding and being just lazy to look up information on the subject. There is a wealth of information available on the subject. All they have to do is look for it.
 
Jennifer: I am glad your system is working out well for you.

I have a neighbor that is off the grid too. He not only has the solar panels but also a small wind generator. He has a well also. His main heat is an outdoor boiler system.

My hat is off to you and others that can make this work for your electric needs.

I am not able to make do with that amount of electric. We use much more and it is an added expense each month. So your ahead of me on this.

I really wonder about the longevity of the solar panels??? IF they fail sooner that will drive the cost up quite a bit.

I am all for systems like yours. I don't really mind if it made you eligible for some type of tax/energy credit.

I am against the big wind farms. They are not in any way self reliant. Without massive amounts of tax credits they are not practical.

Thank you for taking the time to post about your real life system and your true costs. I read some of the people that treat this subject like it is a evil thing or the second coming. Both of those types are throwing too many made up numbers for you to be able fairly judge how they work or don't work.
 
BRATS!!! :p Very nice system :D
Do you use solar collecters as well?
How about a turbine?

I think (OUCH brain cramp) I mentioned in past I would very much enjoy being more involved with renewable energy. However this house will NEVER be off-grid since SWMBO sleeps with TV running and sometimes half the lights in house on. Drives me nuts! She was suprised 2 yrs ago when by changing stocktank heater system I cut 100Kw off the monthly winter power bill from prev. winter bill.
 
"Living off the grid", is very expensive. Start up costs, and maintenance costs, and replacement costs add up.
90% of the people are not going to spend the money it takes to live like an Amish person.
And pay for the house and land.
 
$51 a month.I am paying just about double that, but I don't have to maintain batteries, or inverters, or live with 12 volt lights.
 
Just a couple questions-

Where did you get the 25 year projected life span of the panels?

Why are you so hostile about questions?
 
(quoted from post at 00:35:10 06/10/14) Thanks Jennifer, looks good to me. I don't understand the hate some posters on here have toward Solar power.
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I understand the hate, but will not go into the details here.
 
You complained you didn't get pictures in a few hours showing the set-up, ( like she really has to provide or prove this to you) now your hating on her again for her bill get real.
 
I have a similar arrangement 48V system, but only 690 watts in a total of 3 solar panels so far, its for back up power and I'd say its impressive you don't even know the power is out, seems like non interrupted, given the battery bank. I can do the same, bulk or trickle charge from my Miller NT251 welder/generator. The only difference is I need more panels, and with the cycling of the batteries, I'd need to balance them much more often and depending on the cycling, its hard to say what the overall service life will be, as is, for back up power they've never really been below 48 Volts, takes a long time with conservative useage ie; outage, to get down to 50 volts, it stays around 54 Volts with a .50 amp charge on it. These are viable systems, this house is not small either, I don't run the electric range, washer/dryer or central air, but it handles everything else, 220v well pump, furnace 2 refrigerators, and a big chest freezer. Battery bank consists of 8 batteries, + inverter and charge controller, the inverter has its own panel. I think with more solar panels, I have the room, I could produce power, my location is ideal for when the sun is shining. The town hall has a huge system, might be a co-op, but they are off the grid during the day when the sun shines, and there is a flat screen monitor showing the pertinent information amortized over time, so any of the residents that walk in can see what its doing at any given time, wish I had that same kind of read out here, track the outages over a year, showing the break down of power generated etc.
 
bwillett , your not gona win , you may as well stop trying . jennifer has give us facts , where are yours ?
 
where the h.ll do you live? my electric bill runs around $230 a month? Heat in the winter A/C in the summer.
 
Bill probably feels the same about the 2nd amendment - he doesn"t have to buy a gun or cartridges or worry about training. He just has 911 written down by the phone and lets the police worry about protecting him.

I side with Jennifer on her stance. He doesn"t have to like my choices or agree with me. I could care less. Like a friend once told a know-it-all:

"Ugly Attitudes are like an ugly baby - the mama can"t help that she has an ugly kid, but she could keep it at home where the rest of us don"t have to see it!"

Thanks, Jennifer - for the info and the pics. I enjoyed both.
 
Thanks for the info,it was very interesting,I sure your like to hear more about your homesite,and Califonia in genaral,I find all of your posts interesting,informative,and always look forward to reading them.Im pretty sure most people on the site here feel the same way.
 
Jennifer, there are a lot of good people on YT
with knowledge on how to fix tractors that is very
valuable info. However there are some diapers too,
people who they are always on your butt and full
of crap. Sorry to say, you just have to let it
roll off your back, get a thick skin.

You may notice there are people who like to do the
same to my posts.

Time will tell, so Let us know 10 years form now
how your solar is working. Wish you the best.
George
 
I don't dispute anything you say. I just don't know why,in this country,we tried to skip right over something as obvious as heating and storing water with solar panels,to heat domestic hot water and our homes and went right to something as complex as making electricity.
Doesn't make sense to me.
 
(quoted from post at 03:32:02 06/10/14) $51 a month.I am paying just about double that, but I don't have to maintain batteries, or inverters, or live with 12 volt lights.
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the inverter turns 48volts dc into 220volts ac, we don't have any 12volt lights.
 
Neighbor is looking into a a solar system that hooks into the regular power lines to his house supposedly will run the meter backwards when he's generating more electricity than he is using. So he won't have the expense of batteries.I know thats not an option for you but would work well for most people.Also solar panel technology is advancing pretty quickly.Keep us updated as I'm interested in how it all works out for you.
 
(quoted from post at 03:39:49 06/10/14) Just a couple questions-

Where did you get the 25 year projected life span of the panels?

Why are you so hostile about questions?
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the solar panels are guaranteed for 25 years.
how did you manage to read into "i am hostile about questions " in anything i stated ????
 
Nice.

Going off grid is partly a lifestyle change, you need to do
things differently. If everyone in the house is good with that, it
works well.

The up front costs are big, but it pays after that if you can
swing it.

Something odd about how that solar panel looks, like the wind
here would rip it off in a week. Must just be the picture angle or
something.

Paul
 
Thanks for the info and pictures, Jennifer. We are using some solar here on our place here in MT. We have three of our four stock water wells on solar power. One very remote unit is a solar powered pump jack running on 36 volts. It provides enough water for up to 60 cows + their calves. Our second set of panels powers two wells. I mounted the panels on an old farm truck so when we move cows, we just move the truck to the other well. Works great ! the second unit provides enough water for 100 cows + their calves easy. Yes we need a backup generator, but it's rarely used.
 

I'm on the 5th year with a 5400 watt system.
Array has twenty-seven 200 watt panels hooked in
series-parallel. I built a special barn with one
roof pointing south as the desired angle 600 feet
from house. Besides housing solar equipment we
also use it for farm equipment. I.e. dual-use.

Solar panels are hooked up to twin 3600 watt
Outback inverters and twin Outback MX80 charge-
controllers.
Battery bank has eight Rolls-Surrette 6-volt deep-
cycle batteries. S-460 rated at 350 amp-hours,
cost $310 each, and estimated life is 7-10 years.

Also needed - is a way to charge the batteries if
run down - like during a long power outage when
the sun doesn't shine. That required getting a
large 48 volt Iota battery charger that I can hook
to the 13 KW PTO generator on my tractor to charge
the batteries. If someone has no back-up system
to charge - a they get severely run down - they
could get ruined.

Note that all the equipment except the panels
themselves only has a 5 year warrantee. After that
- anything fails and I pay for it. And yes,stuff
fails. I've had to fix the Outback inverters
twice already under warranty.

We make, on average, 320 KWh per month every year.
Even though we use slightly less - we still pay
$17.35 per month hook-up fee to the power company.

I paid - out of pocket - around $8000 cash (that
is no longer getting any interest on). In reality
the total system was 40-something thousand bucks.
This system - in theory - would pay me back for
only my out-of-pocket cost . . in 10-11 years IF
nothing ever broke or wore-out. I find that
doubtful but we'll see. I doubt I'll be around to
find out anyway.

Note that I am in central NY. People in better
sun areas can use less solar panels.

Also note that last year we were away for 8
months. Made a lot of extra power that the power-
company has. We will not get it back not will we
get paid for it. National Grid runs a credit for
one year and then wipes it out. I.e. they pocket
it.

Also - solar panels are half the cost now then
when I installed. But the electronics cost more.
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To those on this forum expressing doubts about the
solar panels. They just about all come with an
output guarantee of something like 80% after 25
years. They degrade slowly. Like a tractor - a
solar panel is not just "one thing." It is a bunch
of solar cells wired together with blocking
diodes. They can be repaired when needed. In
regard to the silicon cells themselves -it has
been proven long ago that they can last 50 years
or more. Many of the first solar-powered
satellites sent to space 50 years ago are still
making power. Like the US Vanguard sent up in
1958.

Solar panels are of little concern. The expensive
electronics like inverters and controllers are
what's going to cost money to maintain. So do the
batteries and whatever is used for back-up power
when the sun doesn't shine. People who live off-
grid have to use fuel-driven electric generators a
lot and they wear out and are expensive.
 
Jennifer, thanks for the info and great pictures. As an Electrical Engineer I know about Solar and am a huge fan. If I were much younger Id go all solar and passive solar heating plus hot water heat, perhaps throw in a little Geothermal and earth sheltering, the whole works.

Yes its a substantial initial investment but if youre young and looking at the long term you will do quite well over your life and the life of the system.

On a small scale in the RV we are electrically self sustaining by using rooftop solar panels and a bank of deep cycle batteries, its just if you go a larger scale you need more panels and more battery energy storage but the theory is the same.

CONGRATULATIONS

John T Retired Electrical Engineer and a believer in solar energy use
 
The batteries are good for 8 years , the rest of the system is good for 25 years. will that add another $4800 to the overall 25 year cost? Bill
 
Nice looking setup. Looks well planed out. I am
retired from the power business. The only thing I
have a problem with on solar. Is some of the sales
men I get calls all the time from people telling me.
Their system is not doing what they were told it
would. Most of the time it is large house small
system. What do you think the upkeep cost will be on
your system.
 
How do you calculate "doing well" in the long term? Not trying to start an argument. Just want to know why your math is different then mine.

I've lived with solar for 12 years off-grid and grid-tie solar for 5 years. I've got first-hand experience with some of the pitfalls, what tends to fail, and what does not.

Batteries are a huge expense and there's no way around it. Yes - there are batteries rated for 25 years of use - but they cost 3 times as much as 8-10 year batteries. Inverters and controllers are expensive.

My neighbor has been off-grid for 15 years. He uses a lot of propane for his electric generator that he uses for many weeks in Feb and March. In 15 years two have failed beyond repair and he's on his third genset. He is also on his fourth set of batteries. One was a set of AGMs that failed the first year. He's back to flooded lead-acid now. I know, for sure, he has not saved a penny. But it is also not the #1 reason he went to solar. Many, like him . . did it for the idependence.
 
very interesting, i couldnt use solar, live down between 2 mountains, so not enough direct sun. Glad you are able and interested in doing so. Seems as though you thought thru costs and such, hope you dont have any major unexpected expenses with it.
 
(quoted from post at 05:27:34 06/10/14) Jennifer, thanks for the info and great pictures. As an Electrical Engineer I know about Solar and am a huge fan. If I were much younger Id go all solar and passive solar heating plus hot water heat, perhaps throw in a little Geothermal and earth sheltering, the whole works.

Yes its a substantial initial investment but if youre young and looking at the long term you will do quite well over your life and the life of the system.

On a small scale in the RV we are electrically self sustaining by using rooftop solar panels and a bank of deep cycle batteries, its just if you go a larger scale you need more panels and more battery energy storage but the theory is the same.

CONGRATULATIONS

John T Retired Electrical Engineer and a believer in solar energy use
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I've always said that when i grow up i want to be an electrical engineer. i am a licensed electrical and solar contractor ( or was till i got a tumor in my lung ) i can't do much more than point now days. i barely have the energy to go out and play with my tractors, it sucks cause i really loved what i was doing and i liked making the money too. your a lawyer, right ? what did ya think of my disclaimer ? :)
 
(quoted from post at 05:46:03 06/10/14) The batteries are good for 8 years , the rest of the system is good for 25 years. will that add another $4800 to the overall 25 year cost? Bill
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yes, in my math i showed my battery figures as $2400.00/8years=$300.00/12 months=$25.00per month.
 
I live in Iowa, so the climate is not conductive for totally going off the grid.

I have pricing for an 8kW supplemental array. The payback on that would be about 8 years with rebates and tax incentives. I was ready to pull the trigger, but am thinking about spending the money on ground source heat. My home is propane and my shop is resistive heat.
 
A very elaborate setup. Raises a few interesting thoughts...

Average person starting out may or may not have the capital to invest in the system. That leaves options to borrow, use the grid while building capital, or live Amish while building capital to invest.

Comparison to "on grid" costs are dependent on location. Where I am, I would likely have less sun exposure, colder winters, but lower electric rates.

As with any alternate system, whether it be for electric, heat, transportation, or making a living, it might work better for some than others. I suppose that is why there is more than one flavor of ice cream.

Glad to see that it works for you. Wish we could have more use of renewable resources like solar.
 
Years ago, I knew someone who had solar power at their barn. They had to buy special light bulbs because of the solar power. Do you still have to buy special bulbs?
 
I find it rather ironic and hypocritical that some folks that grouse about the initial cost of solar or wind energy will think nothing of spending $40K for a diesel 1 ton dully pickup truck (which depreciates $10K the minute you drive it off the lot)!
Perhaps it is because they know deep down inside that they should be doing the same, but are too jealous to admit it??
I applaud you for leading the way to the future Jennifer! Keep up the good work of leading by example .
 
Next question: How tough are the panels? We get hail storms here. Would your homeonwners' insurance cover the damage?
 
Yep, Im also an attorney but that was only long after I had a real life as a farmer, electrical engineer and used truck, tractor and RV dealer.

Yep I love that disclaimer, there are so many a holes on here and the know it all Billy Bobs and Bubbas and those who love to play gotcha and I agree they can kiss my grits lol

What you choose to spend your money on is only your business and no one elses and it dont matter if its right or wrong ITS YOUR FREE CHOICE so if they don't like it they need to get a life and get over it lol

Im only here to help not fight or argue with people.

Best wishes and God Bless

John T
 
(quoted from post at 00:29:09 06/10/14) we have 10-253watt solar panels and a 48volt inverter so we have a 2.53k/48volt system. the solar panels, charge controller, inverter and misc wire, conduit etc.. cost $ 6550.00/25years=262/12months=21.83 per month.

the batteries are l-16 deep cycle,lead acid, 6v ea. 8 of them cost $ 2400.00/8years=$300.00/12months=$25.00 per month.

our well water pump cost $1200.00 plus $300.00 for pipe,wire etc...we had the panels laying around so no cost for panels, so right now our water cost $1500.00/25years=$60.00/12months=$ 5.00 per month. we plan on buying 6 solar panels which will cost $3000./25years=$120.00/12months=$10.00 so in time our water will cost us $15.00 per month. ( i will add pics tomorrow )
so, total cost:
solar panels etc... $21.83
batteries $25.00
water $ 5.00
total $51.00 per month.

yes, we paid up front, but im sure someone would have loved to loan us the money and charged us something stupid in interest, no thanks. we own it free and clear.
we run a fridge,deep freezer,2 laptops,satellite internet.microwave, lights,fans, we have a air conditioner in the bedroom that we run during the day when needed. we have a back up generator that we run when it gets cloudy for too long ( added expense that i did not include ) we use about 20gallons of gasoline per year. also we have a generator that we use to weld with.
disclaimer:
these are our solar facts, im sure yours will vary so go price it yourself and if they vary, don't come crying to me. also for all the doubting Thomasa's and name callers: i couldn't give a rats arse what you think so don't bother wasting everyone's time. thank you. :)
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Doesn't the local utility offer "net metering" ? No need for batteries.
We used 23,000KW hr last year on just a house, shed and chicken coupe . It would take a bank of 16KW station PV's to make solar work.
 

That depends. It's possible that they were using a DC system without inverting to 120V AC.If so they were possibly using 12V DC LEDs?
 
How do you like those Rolls batteries? I did some reading about those when I was looking into an off grid setup. Also are yours mono or poly crystaline panels?
 
I once had a supervisor that argued very strongly about the costs I was incurring with having a garden. He added up the costs of a rototiller, hand tools, seed, fertilizer, lime, cost of my pickup to transport tiller to and from the 4 gardens that I maintained (rent-free on others land, I might add). But he sure stood in line when I brought excess produce to work to hand out to co-workers!!! Don't pay no never-mind to detractors, they are merely eaten up with envy!
 
I get that all the time. They bring me a junk piece of equipment. Then complain about their bill. While getting into their 60 thousand dollar pick up.
 
(quoted from post at 06:17:05 06/10/14) Years ago, I knew someone who had solar power at their barn. They had to buy special light bulbs because of the solar power. Do you still have to buy special bulbs?
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the inverter turns 48volts dc into 220volts ac, so you can use the same light bulbs that you now use in you home.
 
Those units just aren't available in the US,simple as that. They're common as dirt in Europe,available at any home improvement store. I want a system like that,but I'll have to import it from Sweden to get it. I've got a friend over there who says he'll run it through his business and ship the stuff to me,but there aren't any installers here either since the systems don't exist.
 
Many power companies offer grid-tie (net metering)
hook-ups and some do not. Those that do charge all
their customers a fee for it (hidden in the
monthly bill).

A run-of-the-mill solar grid-tie system is
required to shut-down whenever the grid shuts
down. So just when you need the solar the most -
you have nothing. Adding a battery bank allows a
grid-tie system to wired in such a way that it can
be made to work when the grid is out. Also - with
no batteries - if the grid goes down at night or a
cloudy day - no sun means no power.

Batteries are a huge expense that always go bad at
some point. It would be nice to find a way to
avoid them. In Holland - excess solar electric is
used to run electric motors making compressed air
in huge tanks. Later when needed - the air is let
out and it spins turbines making electric power.
Not exactly cheap, I'm sure.

Jennifer's L16 Trojan batteries are cheaper then
mine. I was not allow to use Trojan because when
something is partially funded by tax incentives -a
requirement is a minimum of a 5 year warranty.
Trojan would not give a 5 year warranty . So I was
forced to use Rolls-Surette from Canada.

Note that one factor that remains unseen. If
power rates take huge hikes into the future - we
solar owners will be making out pretty well.
 
Let us know when you start bringing your excess electricity over to neighbors.

To be honest - we've been thinking about it - sort of. We were away for near 8 months and our solar made a big glut of extra power. If it does not get used by us before the end of the fiscal billing year - we will lose it all. I.e., the power company sells it to someone else and we get nothing. I feel like having a "come charge your battery for free" party or something.
 
We were using, on average around 450 KWh per month
before we installed solar. We trimmed down electric
usage by getting rid of the electric dryer and hot-
water heater. Put in propane instead along with
solar hot water and wood-furnace hot-water. Once
down to 300 KWh per month we put in the 5400 watts
of solar electric. We make around 4000 KWh per
year with the 5400 watts of panels.
 
(quoted from post at 08:04:24 06/10/14) How do you like those Rolls batteries? I did some reading about those when I was looking into an off grid setup. Also are yours mono or poly crystaline panels?
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our batteries are not rolls, they are Trojan, i think they are a different company. our panels are mono crystalline.
 
Panels are covered with tempered glass. Can the glass break? Maybe. If one or two broke - I'd probably fix myself an not worry about an insurance claim. If some natural disaster destroyed them all? Yes - my farm and home insurance covers them from "acts of nature."
 
I think it is great that she has solar energy if that is what she wants and I hope it serves her well but why should I or anyone else feel ""deep down"" that we should be doing the same? I live in oil country and make my living in the oil field and always have as do my Sons. If it were not for the current boom in oil and gas production made possible by fracking technology there would have been zero economic growth in the US in the last 5 years, solar and wind power sure did not provide that growth.
 
Special bulbs ??? Bulbs just have to match the electricity being made. If 120 VAC then you use 120 VAC bulbs. If 12 volts DC - then you use 12 volts DC bulbs - just like in your car. Nothing "special", just correct.
 
I've got Rolls-Surrette. Not because I think they are better then Trojan. Just because I was required to get batteries with a 5 year warranty and Trojan would not give one.

I have an off-grid cabin with a 1000 watt solar array and a bank of Trojan T-105s and Deka GC-2s. All are on their 7th year year and still fine. Can't complain. I doubt Rolls-Surrette is much better.

My panels are KC200GT - called "multi-crystal." 16/% conversion efficiency. I'd had many brands of poly and mono panels side-by-side and saw very little difference in actual "real world" output.
 
Here's our smaller off-grid setup we have in the
Adirondack Mountains in NY. 1000 watts, no grid, 12
volt battery bank (8 Trojan T-105s) and twin 3000
watt sine-wave inverters.
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(quoted from post at 11:32:02 06/10/14) $51 a month.I am paying just about double that, but I don't have to maintain batteries, or inverters, or live with 12 volt lights.
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Our home has been off-grid for the last 16 years, and I know there are a lot of pros and cons concerning this subject – gosh, listening to Rush Limbaugh, you would think solar was a great conspiracy! Let me put this forward: Solar, whether you use it or not, gives you a choice. Utility service and all of the political flies buzzing around it cannot monopolize, and control your electrical need. You have a choice – thanks to the solar industry.
Here is something else to think about: Today, photo voltaic panels on most homes, today, are about 15% efficient. That means in a given area (say, 2’ X 2’), the sun sends energy of which we are only able to convert 15% of it into electrical current - but that is changing. There are solar companies today that are able to produce panels with double that efficiency. And then there is also an effort to utilize electrical magnetic energy that permeate the whole universe – the static you hear in between radio stations. Imagine that – panels that can produce electricity day and night, rain or shine! This is all pie-in-the-sky kind of stuff, but we can technically do it. What we need is will, and in our culture will rides the shirttail of money. People smell money and they do all kinds of things – some of it honest, and some of it not so honest, but all in all, will abounds! Some of us have witnessed this process with the computer industry. I was in the Air Force during the 60’s and I remember using ticker tape in our communication efforts. I then got a job with a large computer company and I remember the wonderful advancement of the punched card. Today – well , we are culturally changed. I suspect the auto industry had the same affect on our culture. I think the solar industry has that same potential. So, you ney-sayers who curse and shake your fist at that contraption that passed you by tooting its horn and upsetting your horse and buggy – give us a smile. We are an infant just learning to walk.
 
Thanks for information. It gives my something to think about. I'm in NY. Right now I have 4000 gallons of fuel stored. But, with what could come need more ideas on things like you've done.
 
(quoted from post at 10:48:17 06/10/14) Here's our smaller off-grid setup we have in the
Adirondack Mountains in NY. 1000 watts, no grid, 12
volt battery bank (8 Trojan T-105s) and twin 3000
watt sine-wave inverters.
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cool, but im surprised Mrs jdemaris lets ya keep the backhoe in the house. :)
 
Randy,
I have been reading your posts for a few years.
Do not think you will have a problem figuring out how to install the equipment.
 
Thanks. It's easy for me to "over-read" technical data when that's all I have and nice to hear from real world experience.

Do you watch depth of discharge pretty close? That seemed to be the big factor on battery life from the information I was looking at.
 
Do you know roughly what your average KWH per day usage is? I roughed our needs at around 400 KWH per day but could squeeze that down if I need to.

The variable for me is running motor powered stuff: compressor, lathe, etc.
 
I don't think I would either. Thoger put his own in. I've got the schematic. It's just crawling around,getting in to tight spaces in an old house putting in radiators and what not,that doesn't sound like it would agree with me anymore.
 
Jen. Since I was that ask the question I would like
to thank you for answering it. I'm very impressed
with your setup. I sorta figured there would be a
few negative responses but there sure was a lot of
positive ones. Everything you have posted about your
projects I have been very impressed with you are a
very talented lady. Thanks and if I ever get to your
part of California I'm coming to see your place and
your projects
 
Most off grid systems tend to heavy on the use of LP to make up for electrical usage.
Power bill would be low here without electric heat, electric clothes dryer, electric fridge, electric freezer and electric water heater.
We are looking some net metering here. To reduce or eliminate using utility power during daytime peak rates.
 
(quoted from post at 13:19:33 06/10/14) Jen. Since I was that ask the question I would like
to thank you for answering it. I'm very impressed
with your setup. I sorta figured there would be a
few negative responses but there sure was a lot of
positive ones. Everything you have posted about your
projects I have been very impressed with you are a
very talented lady. Thanks and if I ever get to your
part of California I'm coming to see your place and
your projects
Click to expand...




cool and thanks, if your ever gonna be in my neck of the woods just let me know. :)
 
I suspect you mean 115-120 volts, not 220-240 volts.
Not many households using 220 volt light bulbs.

We have twin Outback inverters. Each one makes 120
volts for normal 120 VAC house current and they get
joined to make 220-240 volts for the high-voltage
items like the deep-well water pump.
 
You know what, you people that call me a hater, can just suck it up.
Jennifer408 came on here and said her electric bill was $0.00/per month.
I called her on it.
She answered. Her electric bill was $11,950 before she got the first watt.
Mine was about $50.(deposit).
I have paid an average of $65/month for 10 years. 65x 12= $780 x 10= $7850 with deposit.
And I didn't have to replace my batteries after 8 years.Which is another $2400 on her bill, that is $14,350.
So, in 10 years, she has paid almost twice as much as me just to brag that she is not on the grid.....
And she still has to have back-up for cloudy days. I don't.
 
jennifer408 kudos to you for using solar
not sure what your system puts out in kw per month
but from most of the postes here 400 kw a month
seams to be the norm
if we here could get by using only 400 kw per
month it would be great for us
our normal usage is closer to 600 kw per month avg
over the yr
but here in Ont Canada at our current rate of
electical charges if we only use it at off peak
time which is the cheapest rate our monthy bill
would be about 95 bucks and at 600kw per month we
averaged about 130 per month
working with your figure of 51 a month is better
then 1/2 our monthy bill would definitly be worh
it to us
our problem here in can is that solar systems are
at least 50% more expensive than in the US
im a firm believer in solar power just couldn't
ever pay the up front costs
keep up the good work
 
(quoted from post at 05:03:59 06/10/14)
(quoted from post at 03:39:49 06/10/14) Just a couple questions-

Where did you get the 25 year projected life span of the panels?

Why are you so hostile about questions?
Click to expand...




the solar panels are guaranteed for 25 years.
how did you manage to read into "i am hostile about questions " in anything i stated ????
Click to expand...

As far the hostility, "also for all the doubting Thomasa's and name callers: i couldn't give a rats arse what you think so don't bother wasting everyone's time." is what you wrote. That sounds to me like you don't want to hear anyone elses thoughts on the subject and are hostile towards them. If I read it wrong, my apologies, but referencing a rats backside generally comes off as hostility where I'm from.

Okay, they have a 25 year guaranteed. What assurance do you have that the company will even be in business in 10 years, much less 25? I ask this because there is a push in our town to get a solar power system for the town buildings. I'm sort of ambivalent about the whole idea because I don't buy into the 25-50 year life spans of the panels and associated equipment I hear people talking about. This is fairly new technology and anything electrically related can "let the magic smoke out" at anytime IME. So that's why I'm asking about your 25 year amortization schedule. IMO a more conservative schedule would run 8-10 years. Same for the batteries, warranties on them are usually pro-rated.

No offense intended, just wondering how accurate all the projections that get tossed around really are.
 
(quoted from post at 16:30:56 06/10/14) You know what, you people that call me a hater, can just suck it up.
Jennifer408 came on here and said her electric bill was $0.00/per month.
I called her on it.
She answered. Her electric bill was $11,950 before she got the first watt.
Mine was about $50.(deposit).
I have paid an average of $65/month for 10 years. 65x 12= $780 x 10= $7850 with deposit.
And I didn't have to replace my batteries after 8 years.Which is another $2400 on her bill, that is $14,350.
So, in 10 years, she has paid almost twice as much as me just to brag that she is not on the grid.....
And she still has to have back-up for cloudy days. I don't.
Click to expand...

You have a good point. That's the draw to on the grid power- far less upfront money. But, IMO, there are so many unknowns in the future of both choices that using one to back up the other sort of makes sense to me. Up here our mainline bills all doubled in a month. Jen isn't going to have the issue for sure. OTOH, the unknowns in the actual life expectancy of her system are pretty significant IMO. Of course we know our mainline bills will never, ever go down in a meaningful way no matter what. So there's that to consider too.

In the end, both choices can complement the other ir stand on their own. As long as no one really believes that their little solar system is somehow entirely "green" (it ain't by a long shot) I say it's a personal call.
 
How do you figure the the "rest of the system" is good for 25 years? Inverters and charge-controllers only come with 5 year warrantees and do break down. Same with fuel-driven generators needed to recharge batteries when there' no sun.

I've fixed my Outback inverters twice so far in the first 5 years.
 
I often run the meter backwards. I never get paid anything though. Power company holds my extra power for one year and then takes it if I don't use it. They do not pay me for it.
 
Much of what Rush Limbaugh has stated is true in
regard to alternative energy. Much is a conspiracy
and and a tax-payer-supported scam. But just
because clueless politicians waste money and make
false claims - it does not meant the tech is not
useful for some people in some places.

The reality is -for now to the average consumer -
little has changed in solar in 20 years other then
panel prices going down.
 
I've got no issue with what you've said. Seems obvious to me that some guys here are fawning over Jennifer because she's a female (as far as we can tell in this digital faceless world).

Not trying to start a bunch of nasty posts here either. I too respond to females differently then with men. Just happen to be brought up that way.

Regardless - solar is solar regardless who is using it. It's a personal choice that has no right or wrong. But it is never "free."

To be fair - I did not see anything where Jennifer said it was free. She said she had no monthly payment and that is more then I can say. I have net-metering at my main home so I pay a $17 per month hook-up fee. Without it - like with what Jennifer has - her excess power gets wasted. No place for it to go and no way to get it back. That is unless she constructs some sort of energy storage system. Batteries cannot do it. Once charged they will take NO more. That is the #1 problem with off-grid solar.
 
John - in my opinion - that is a bunch of hooey. What anyone does is there business alone UNTIL they bring it to a public forum. Once out there it is the business of all of us. We should all be free to ask questions, challenge, etc. Otherwise - the forum becomes a useless chat-room. Jennifer made some comments that sounded to some like her power was free. It is not but also - I do not believe she made that claim.


Solar tech certainly has its uses. The politicians have given it a bad name with false promises, claims and their taking of tax dollars to support the same. People had BETTER ask questions because much as commonly presented is a scam. Especially the incentive programs and state/Federal tax rebates.
 
oh well ya know, don't hate me because im beautiful. i said our monthly bill is $ 0.00 and it is, yes, we paid up front and if you think about it, it's not all that much, i mean how nice of a truck are ya gonna get for $11,000.00 and change ? for that matter what kind of shape would a 100 horse tractor that you paid $11,000.00 and change be in ? it's our decision and were happy with it, we have neighbors that have made the same decision and they are happy with it. do what you want, if you enjoy bending over for the greedy utility company's that keep raising your rates it ain't no skin off my knee. i sure as ell ain't gonna hate ya for it. im just gonna sit back and snicker at y'all. :)
 
I gotta say I'm jealous! I wish I could run solar here. I live in SW PA
and sunny days aren't that common. I have often thought about
running wind or water power to help offset our costs. But I never
have taken it farther then a thought. All the nay sayers are idiots
that don't truly understand what you are doing. I work in the gas
and oil field, I like using what God gave us but I think there is
always a better way to do it.
 
I'm in a very low sun area of central NY and do OK with solar. I'm sure we have no more sun here then by you and probably less.
 
Jennifer - for $11,000 I'd have one heck of "nice
truck" going by my scale. I never paid more then
$3000 in my life for any motor-vehicle.

As to the "greedy power companies" . . yeah they
want to make money like any corporation. That
being said - it near impossible to make your own
power and do it cheaper. Not with solar and not
with wind and not with water. Now if electric
rates double or quadruple? Things might change.
Your setup for sure is not going to be cheaper at
today's rates. Maybe later. Will it give you some
independence - yes.

Batteries, backup generators and electronics wear
out. Especially batteries. There is no projected
life span for batteries based on a months or
years. Life is about how many times they are
discharged. Trojan L16 batteries when run down
to 50% will last around 1200 cycles. If down to
100% around 500 charge cycles. So their life
depends on how much you "don't" use them and use
the sun instead. Obviously you have to use them at
night and dark day time periods. In my area -
even bright days - solar panels only make
meaningful current for 5-6 hours a day.
 
You had stated that the connection charge was going to be $150K, so this becomes a no brainer. I think for most people with a minimal connection fee, a net metering system becomes the best solution, then there are no batteries to deal with.
 
(quoted from post at 09:49:07 06/11/14) Jennifer - for $11,000 I'd have one heck of "nice
truck" going by my scale. I never paid more then
$3000 in my life for any motor-vehicle.

As to the "greedy power companies" . . yeah they
want to make money like any corporation. That
being said - it near impossible to make your own
power and do it cheaper. Not with solar and not
with wind and not with water. Now if electric
rates double or quadruple? Things might change.
Your setup for sure is not going to be cheaper at
today's rates. Maybe later. Will it give you some
independence - yes.

Batteries, backup generators and electronics wear
out. Especially batteries. There is no projected
life span for batteries based on a months or
years. Life is about how many times they are
discharged. Trojan L16 batteries when run down
to 50% will last around 1200 cycles. If down to
100% around 500 charge cycles. So their life
depends on how much you "don't" use them and use
the sun instead. Obviously you have to use them at
night and dark day time periods. In my area -
even bright days - solar panels only make
meaningful current for 5-6 hours a day.
Click to expand...




tell it to the hand.
 
(quoted from post at 14:21:03 06/11/14)
(quoted from post at 09:49:07 06/11/14) Jennifer - for $11,000 I'd have one heck of "nice
truck" going by my scale. I never paid more then
$3000 in my life for any motor-vehicle.

As to the "greedy power companies" . . yeah they
want to make money like any corporation. That
being said - it near impossible to make your own
power and do it cheaper. Not with solar and not
with wind and not with water. Now if electric
rates double or quadruple? Things might change.
Your setup for sure is not going to be cheaper at
today's rates. Maybe later. Will it give you some
independence - yes.

Batteries, backup generators and electronics wear
out. Especially batteries. There is no projected
life span for batteries based on a months or
years. Life is about how many times they are
discharged. Trojan L16 batteries when run down
to 50% will last around 1200 cycles. If down to
100% around 500 charge cycles. So their life
depends on how much you "don't" use them and use
the sun instead. Obviously you have to use them at
night and dark day time periods. In my area -
even bright days - solar panels only make
meaningful current for 5-6 hours a day.
Click to expand...




tell it to the hand.
Click to expand...

Wow.

Okay then, let's move on to something else....
 
(quoted from post at 14:11:31 06/11/14) I guess I'm supposed to bow to your astute reply?
Click to expand...


I had hope at first that Jennifer was alright and wanting to spread good news.
Too bad she is one of those arrogant and righteous greenies flaunting status over the ignorant peasants.
And the greenies wonder why everybody hates them.
 
Typical Kalifornia abundant. Rebuttal with insults.
I don't have to worry about a greedy corporation raising my rates, I have Oblamer and the EPA for that.
I am a member of a Rural Electrical Cooperative.
Every year I get a Capital credit refund. What that amounts to is, if the cooperative makes a profit,it has to refund it to it's members according to how much electricity they use and how long they have been members. Does the vendor who sold you your solar system do that?
 
oh gosh, ya guys sure won didn't ya ? ya sure told me, huh ? i'll think about ya while im not writing a check out to the utility company next month, and the next, etc.......
 
I have a $40 battery tender that charges a used, 12V, trolling motor battery. That in turn runs the little RV pump that pumps water out of the 15 gallon storage tank so we can have "running water" down at the He-man Wuman Haters club. Total cost less than $100.

Works pretty good. That will last a couple of us over a 3 or 4 day trip.

No well, and no electricity at the cabin. Use propane for lights and the cook stove. Wood heat. Outhouse.

Amish aint got nothing on us, but it sure feels good to get home and take a hot shower.

Gene
 
(quoted from post at 23:43:20 06/11/14) oh gosh, ya guys sure won didn't ya ? ya sure told me, huh ? i'll think about ya while im not writing a check out to the utility company next month, and the next, etc.......
Click to expand...


No one "won" Jennifer. You did however lose the argument when you chose to resort to insults rather than defend your claims and not address JDemaris valid points. Some of the others also lost when they also chose to move on to insults.

The fact is that you aren't being accurate in your projections. A warranty period or paper guarantee does equal expected service life. If you want to be accurate you need to be a lot more conservative in your projections. Yeah, I know, tell it to the hand.
 
Hey Jennifer . . tell us about your success after
you've actually done it for a few years (or more).
Easy to make big claims on a new system you have
little experience with. There are many people
around with years of experience with this stuff.
You have nothing at present but estimated
projections into the future.

I give anyone credit for trying. There is much
more hype and BS out there when it comes to
alternative energy. That makes it difficult for
someone looking into it - to estimate what good it
might do for them in their own real world. Your
display of arrogance and "guessing" helps no one
(in my opinion). But yes - you never claimed to be
on this forum to help. Maybe just brag about
something that has not happened yet?

I met and spoke with many solar users in my area
before getting involved. Some have been using
solar for 30 years in dark areas of NY. What they
told me was very different from what I was told by
certified NYS solar installers. Guess who's
information was more accurate? Hint. Not from the
certified baboons who could hardly diagnose a non-
working flashlight.

That being said - I am in a poor sun area and
understand the concept of more sun equals more
production from less panels. Many of the
projected long-term costs remain the same though.

Your style sounds similar to what I hear from
Darryl Hannah. The once popular actress (Splash,
Blade Runner) that now spends her time bragging
about her solar-electric and her car that runs on
home-grown fuel. Too bad. I am always interested
in people's solar systems and how they work out.
Not so much in BS and hopeful claims though. How
are your 220 volt light bulbs working out?
 
(quoted from post at 04:44:13 06/12/14) Hey Jennifer . . tell us about your success after
you've actually done it for a few years (or more).
Easy to make big claims on a new system you have
little experience with. There are many people
around with years of experience with this stuff.
You have nothing at present but estimated
projections into the future.

I give anyone credit for trying. There is much
more hype and BS out there when it comes to
alternative energy. That makes it difficult for
someone looking into it - to estimate what good it
might do for them in their own real world. Your
display of arrogance and "guessing" helps no one
(in my opinion). But yes - you never claimed to be
on this forum to help. Maybe just brag about
something that has not happened yet?

I met and spoke with many solar users in my area
before getting involved. Some have been using
solar for 30 years in dark areas of NY. What they
told me was very different from what I was told by
certified NYS solar installers. Guess who's
information was more accurate? Hint. Not from the
certified baboons who could hardly diagnose a non-
working flashlight.

That being said - I am in a poor sun area and
understand the concept of more sun equals more
production from less panels. Many of the
projected long-term costs remain the same though.

Your style sounds similar to what I hear from
Darryl Hannah. The once popular actress (Splash,
Blade Runner) that now spends her time bragging
about her solar-electric and her car that runs on
home-grown fuel. Too bad. I am always interested
in people's solar systems and how they work out.
Not so much in BS and hopeful claims though. How
are your 220 volt light bulbs working out?
Click to expand...




excuse me, i didn't "guess" i stated our solar facts. i personally have been on solar power for over 10 years and my husband 15 plus years. we added our current 253 watt panels 3 years ago, our old panels are now down at the well pumping water into our holding tanks. yes, you are right, i shouldn't assume that the average layperson that has a 220v system could possibly understand a 110volt light bulb runs on half of that, 220/2=110volts. let me explain: in a 110-volt system you have 1 hot wire, 1 common wire and one ground wire, hence you have a 110-volt system. in a 220volt system you have 2 hot wires(110each) 1 common wire and 1 ground wire. hence 110+110= 220volts. most household appliances, lights, etc... run on 110volts. however some pumps and welders run on 220volts.
 

Give Jen credit for understanding that the ground wire and load current carrying neutral potential wire is two separate systems .
As a precious poster raised the point earlier in this site. Where do people think PV , solid state and lead acid storage batteries are manufactured? "In Fairy Land and delivered via Unicorns?".
Anybody here know how toxic those industries are ?
 
You are guessing when you "snicker" at others
because of your own projected low cost of power.
Note my use of the word "projected." It certainly
is a guess until 10-20 years goes by and you find
out your actual costs.

In reference to your comments on 110-120 versus
220-240 volts. Inverters with split-phase are
usually referred to as 120/240, not just 240.
That to indicate they provide dual voltages at the
outputs. A minor point - but when you responded
to a question about light bulbs - your statement
I'm sure to some - looked like you were talking
220 volt lights. But yes - I understand the
concept of 110-120 using a neutral and a hot leg,
whereas 220-240 using two hot legs.

I don't know what inverter you have but I assume
it has a 3 to 5 year warranty.

Your batteries have a 5 year warrany IF it never
gets over 80 degrees F at your place which I
doubt. For places that get temps over 80F the
Trojan warranty is 2.5 years.

Subsequently I assume you've got no equipment with
more then a 5 year warranty yet your projection
extends to 25 years. That's why I'm calling it a
"guess." Call it a "hopeful projection" if that
sounds better.

I AM curious what inverter you have but not
looking for an insulting answer either. I'm
always interested to see which ones have better
service records then others. My twin Outback
inverters have already been repair twice under
warranty. But note that warranty only gave me the
parts. I had to do the repairs myself. Warrnaty
does not cover service calls or shipping costs to
the factory repair center.

You say you spent $6550. If you spent $2400 on
batteries, $180 on the controller, and $2200 on
the panels - that comes to $4,780. That leaves
$1,770 for the panel mounts, wires, electrical
boxes, and inverter. That's not much money and I
see no mention of what you are going to use as
back-up power to charge the batteries when there
are problems. A typical 4000 watt inverter with
split-phase is $2200. A higher-end inverter like
an Outback GS8048 split-phase with 8000 watts is
$5400.
 
ok, done deal, im outta here. as far as im concerned this discussion is closed. apparently you did not read or comprehend my disclaimer, quote:
[b:ae951ba97c]these are our solar facts, im sure yours will vary so go price it yourself and if they vary, don't come crying to me. also for all the doubting Thomasa's and name callers: i couldn't give a rats arse what you think so don't bother wasting everyone's time. thank you. :)[/b:ae951ba97c]
yet you insist on doing it. so y'all can keep on posting hate and doubt till your hearts content, and when ya tired you can move on to something and someone else to hate on. but im out of it. good day gentlemen.
 
(quoted from post at 13:56:42 06/12/14) ok, done deal, im outta here. as far as im concerned this discussion is closed. apparently you did not read or comprehend my disclaimer, quote:
[b:f58be96c8e]these are our solar facts, im sure yours will vary so go price it yourself and if they vary, don't come crying to me. also for all the doubting Thomasa's and name callers: i couldn't give a rats arse what you think so don't bother wasting everyone's time. thank you. :)[/b:f58be96c8e]
yet you insist on doing it. so y'all can keep on posting hate and doubt till your hearts content, and when ya tired you can move on to something and someone else to hate on. but im out of it. good day gentlemen.
Click to expand...

I just seen a quote on FB yesterday to remember " just because you are offended, it doesn't make me wrong."
 
(quoted from post at 12:51:42 06/12/14)
As a precious poster raised the point earlier in this site. Where do people think PV , solid state and lead acid storage batteries are manufactured? "In Fairy Land and delivered via Unicorns?".
Anybody here know how toxic those industries are ?
Click to expand...

That's one of things that gets me about about the "green" folks. They claim to be saving the planet, etc. but completely ignore the rare earth minerals mined in China (bet that's a real "green" project), the plastics, the copper, the aluminum and all the other stuff that goes into their systems, not to mention the batteries. There is no free lunch and the Green Industry is full of smoke and mirror thinking. Yes, an individual can eventually reduce their so called "footprint" but it's over a long period and it's isn't a zero input/output game.
 
Interesting that when someone posts easily
verified facts - you describe it as "hate" and
bail out.

YOU are the one that entered this forum and
"snickered" at those that were making monthly
payments for electric power. Note snickered" was
your own description and not someone else's
assumption.

I'm waiting now for another sycophant to come to
your rescue to counter us "Bubbas."
 
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