OT - hay for draft horses

JRSutton

Well-known Member
My wife and I are relatively new to draft horses - we've now got two Belgians.

Like anything, you tend to get a million conflicting recommendations on feed from people who all seem to know what they're talking about.

I think what that boils down to is: "it really doesn't matter, just give them something to eat".

In fact, it almost seems that it's best to feed these guys all the stuff other horse owners turn their noses up at.

Either way - I have a simple question on hay that I can't find a good answer to.

I've got an overgrown field I'm about to reclaim and use for hay production.

Since I'm going to seed it, and since this field is small enough that all the hay from it will only go to those two horses, I figured I might as well buy the best mix I can for draft horses.

I'm in Massachusetts by the way.

I don't expect there to be a magic formula of an "absolute best" mix - but just looking for some general guidance if anybody has a thought to share.
 
My Dad would not allow us to feed anything but grass hay to the horses. He did not want us to feed any type of clover or alfalfa to the horses; he got really upset if the horses got into anything but good grass hay. My Dad was a master at putting up top quality hay.

The cows got the alfalfa hay. Now that I think back on it, I think the mules ate what the cows ate.
 
As a youngster granddad"s brother only farmed with horses. Timothy is what they ate. I remember sitting on the seeder sowing oats, hay and clover. Didn"t believe in alfalfa back then. Ya never sat directly behind them as I recall.
 
We have been raising Clydesdales and Belgians for over 70 yrs Ours still work and get shown. The hay you feed is determined by what you do with them. Show horses get alfalfa and hot feeds makes them good and fat. Work horse and play horse get good grass hay (orchard grass Timothy lidonel and fescue. Light amount of clover is ok but not a lot makes them slober everywhere Email is open congratulations on the New family members. Best forage haymaster mix works great for what ever you want add alfalfa if you want or don't it's nice mix either way
 
I agree with Smoking Minnie 100%.
In addition, clover and alfalfa are also difficult to dry-down for mold free hay, and you can not spray for weeds if you have clover or alfalfa in the field. Go with a good straight grass hay and if needed, supplement it with grain or beet pulp for hard work periods.

Horses normally graze 16 hours a day, continually eating. A lot of lower quality hay is better for the horses gut, than a couple small high protein meals a day, like a human tends to eat.
 
Forgot to mention how we use them.

The horses aren't for show. They will be worked, but our definition of working them differs greatly from the true meaning of the word.

Weekend type stuff.

Occasionally pull a hay rake, maybe a baler on flat ground. Some wagon rides, pull a few logs out of the woods, etc.

Certainly not worked heavily, and not daily.
 
You're going to have to use what will grow in your area. What grasses are native to your specific farm? Timothy was always the preferred horse hay because you have to really work at it to get dusty Timothy. It's still good, but a mix of whatever grows well in your area is the best bet. My drafters get the same hay as the rest of my stock. I just try to give them the better quality stuff.
 
As a horse owner, good quality hay, with protein levels around 10% is a must for horses. With protein levels around 10%, the horse will get full long before he eats so much it could hurt him. With higher protein hays/feed, a horse can eat enough to make himself sick before he gets full.

Good quality hay means very, very low weed content, properly baled and stored. No mold! Cows can tolerate moldy hay, but it can be deadly to horses.

Dick2 is right, leave the clover and alfalfa for the cows. Clover and alfalfa can have protein levels of 14% or greater.

When the protein levels of hay or feed gets over 12% for horses that are not being ridden or worked much, you can have problems. Too much protein and not enough work to burn it off can cause them to "bounce off the walls", be silly and hard to handle. It can also lead to health problems like founder in the feet.

You will figure out quickly if your drafts are what"s called "easy keepers". That means it doesn"t take a lot of food to keep them in good flesh. Good flesh means the ribs don"t show, but you can feel them easily with your fingers.

If your drafts are pleasure horses and not going to be driven or used much, you probably won"t need to give them anything but the grass hay. If you do decide to supplement with feed, again, keep the protein level low, 12% or less and small amounts or you can have problems.

Since I am in Tx, I can"t recommend what seed to use for your field. You would be very smart to pay a visit to your local agriculture agent. He should be able to give you good advice about what to plant and how to plant it.

Take soil samples on your field so you know what fertilizer ratios to use. The ag agent will be able to help you with this, too.

Once you cut your hay and its cured out, take a sample and send it in for analysis. Your ag agent should be able to tell you where to send it and how much to send. Here in Tx, it costs $10.00 + postage to have a sample analyzed. Its worth every penny. The analysis will tell you the protein level, etc.

You don"t say if you"ve had horses before, so I am assuming you are new to having horses. There"s a lot to learn about keeping horses. If you take the time to learn, your horses will be a pleasure and many hours of enjoyment.

Be sure to find a local vet. Horses can be like small children and find ways to hurt themselves you never expected.

If you are new to having horses, your vet may be able to recommend someone in your area who has horses that would be willing to help you learn about your drafts. It will be worth your while to talk to them. Books can be a good source, too.

If you haven"t already located one, your vet should also be able to recommend a local horse shoer.

I read the posts on this forum almost daily and will be glad to answer any questions I can.

I hope your experience with your drafts is one that will make many fond memories.
 
Plain grass hay... whatever is the norm for your area. Around here it would be comprised largely of timothy with mabey some orchard and brome grass mixed in... Baled tinder dry so it doesn't make dust... In terms of what a cowman calls top quality hay... this isn't it. Probably not even 'good' hay really... from what I see, most people that keep horses do nothing with them, feed them too much grain/sweet feed and alfalfa cubes/pellets... then wonder why they founder on top notch hay. Feeding them some pretty mediocre stuff that is free of dust will be more than sufficient unless you're going to feed them hay alone... then you want something a bit better.

Rod
 
My horse experience is limited to what I picked up from watching the lone ranger as a kid.

My wife on the other hand grew up with horses - just not draft horses. But she was also young and her father did most of the worrying about what and how to feed them.

She's also been working with some friends in town who also have belgians, doing wagon rides, tedding fields, etc. So she's got a few years experience working them. But again, not a lot of experience in feeding them.

We do have a good farrier. He came with the horses so he knows them well.

Both horses are 6 years old. We have some amish friends in Ohio, one of them sold these horses to somebody else back here in town a few years ago. Then that person decided to give them to us last year, since they no longer had the time to care for them.

The amish friend who sold them passed away a few months ago, so It means a lot to me to have his horses, even though I'm not much of a horse person.

I am getting more and more involved with them as I get used to them.

I'm more used to cows - these things are BIG.

Two females.

The bigger of the two is 18 1/2 hands. whatever that means! - I just know I'm a little intimidated by the size.

I do have plenty of people around for brain-picking, but as I said before - I get so many conflicting answers, (and many "well, I don't know if it's right, but it's what I do type answers). So I like to ask as many people as I can and sort of average out the responses.

So Nancy I may take you up on that and pick your brain from time to time too.
 
Conflicting answers?? Welcome to the horse world. Ask 5 of us and you will get 7 different answers. Ask us again tommorrow, and and we will add a few more new answers.

PS: 18 1/2 is one mighty big horse!
 
When we still had working horses and mules we feed Timothy- Orchard mix hay. For grain twice a day it was rolled, steamed, or just plain oats. Add little crimped corn in the winter. Hot brained them once a week. Simple diet. Hope you enjoy your horses.
 
Dad had Percheron horses; they were work horses that he used a lot until the last couple of years. When we built a new barn in 1950, he finally decided that he should sell the horses and use tractors instead.
 
I have almost no experience with the big drafts. The one experience I did have was very positive.

Don't know what kind of draft he was, but he was every bit the "gentle giant". He seemed to be aware of his size and was careful around us. It was a great experience.

There are no hard and fast rules about horses or working with horses other than plain common sense like don't walk up quietly from behind. Almost everything is "generally this works". A lot just comes from being able to pull from experience to figure out what works with that particular animal. Knowledge is your best friend.

Listen to experienced horse people and store that knowledge. It may not fit what's going on today, but it may come in handy another day. Or pieces of what someone says may work for you, while the entire piece of advice doesn't.

Finally, never hesitate to ask. None of us was born knowing what we do about horses. I enjoy sharing what I have learned so others will come to know and treasure their horses.
 
PS - if you watch the Lone Ranger, watch the riding of Jay Silverheels (Tonto). He has a wonderful, fluid seat. He looks like he's part of the horse.
 
How much they are fed depends on whether they are working or not and how hard they are worked. What they are fed is most easliy determined by what is available in your area. Timothy is the standard in your part of the country but to say that horses should not be fed Alfalfa or Clover is preposterous. If available and competitively priced good legume hay should be included in the ration of every class of livestock, there is no equal as far as economically supplying vitamins, minerals and protein in a palatable ration, the amount fed does have to be regulated, both to avoid overfeeding and from a cost standpoint. Horses at hard work should be fed a bulky ration such as oats or at least a high percentage of bulky and laxative feeds as compared to heavy feeds such as corn. Feeding livestock is not complicated if common sense pricipals are followed, all animals require sufficient feed to maintain their bodies and then extra to compensate for the work they are doing, the growth they are making, the milk they are giving etc. You can buy a copy of Morrisons ''feeds and feeding'' on e-bay or at a used book store for little or nothing, this was the standard college text book for many years and even though it has been out of print over 50 years the information is just as relevent today as it was then.
 
Sorry for the multiple replies.

A "hand" is the standard measure for height of a horse. You start at the ground and measure to the highest point of the withers (the "hump" just behind where the neck joins the back).

1 hand = 4 inches. 18.5 hands = 74 inches or 6ft, 2 inches. That's a lot of horse!
 
I agree that feeding alfalfa or clover to horses is not preposterous IF you know what you're doing. It makes a great nutritional contribution as long as it is managed correctly and is not the bulk of the horse's diet. The issue with alfalfa or clover being fed to horses is the high protein content which if too much is fed, it can cause serious issues.

Because you need to know what you're doing when feeding high protein feeds/hays to horses, I generally don't advise it. Its too easy to make an error and wind up with a vet call.

Also, since the vast majority of horses today are pleasure horses and not working hard, they don't need the higher protein.

Clover hay is not available in my area, so I never use it. Alfalfa is available in my area, but in southern regions if alfalfa is going to be fed to horses it MUST be certified free of blister beetles. Blister beetles are highly toxic to horses - 1/4 of a blister beetle will kill a horse.

This is why when helping out someone new to feeding horses, I keep to hays/feeds that are safe and not likely to cause problems. Once the person gets some good, solid knowledge of the horse's digestive system and feeds/hays, they can add hays like clover or alfalfa safely.
 
As EDD pointed out, ask and you will get various responses. Working and owning drafts can be a great experience. Do alot of research on the care and maintenance. If they are prior Amish they may have been trimmed/shod in stocks. Do they pick up their feet and keep them up? Also they may have little experience trailering. So load training maybe in order. All the drafts I have gotten are from the Amish. I work mine.
As far as feed for both my pastures and hay fields I plant a general pasture mix from Mid Atlantic Seed. It includes clover at approximatley 10%, timothy, perrenniel rye and orchard grass. I am outside Gettysburg, PA.
 
Nancy don't measure straight up you have to include all the curves in the body. If you come straight out from the withers and then go straight down you will have less hands. This all started when flexible rulers were hard to come by. Your hand across the fingers at the knuckles is 4 in. Check to make sure. Then just run hand over hand up the leg across withers to the center of the horse to get the correct hight.
Walt
Also we feed tall fescue to our horses with no problems be sure to cut it when the seeds are full but tight.
 
When you are selling hay to horse owners you get all kinds of stories about why you should feed what. My one neighbor will only feed her show horsed pure alfalfa hay. Others that bought hay from me liked alfalfa mixed with grass. Others would call and only want grass hay. Seems that people have well fed horses with all types of hay. Nancy kinda said it, each owner looks at the over all diet and the same end can be achieved in many different ways.
I feed mixed alfalfa/ grasses with a little clover free choice and sweet feed grain fed watching that the horse does not get over weight.
Ask ten different horse owners in ten different areas what and how they feed and you will Probly get ten different answers. If all ten have healthy horses I would say all ten were correct in their feeding programs.
 
Very few true working horses around anymore, lots of barrel shaped pasture pets that I would not want to hook to my wagon without a defibrillator handy.
If your animals are not race horses in training or real work horses [hooked up and pulling on a regular basis] then like most, you will be overfeeding them.
Like others have said avoid moldy/dusty hay for the horses as there respiratory system can be more sensitive than a cows, having your feed tested is cheap and it tells you what you have, anything less and you are just guessing.
In deciding what to seed you also have to take into account the long term impact on the soil.
Do you want to be putting down expensive fertilizer?
Or do you seed some alfalfa/legume with it and get your nitrogen fix naturally.
Many of our horses have actually put on weight during the winter on plain old cow hay even with a nasty winter like we just went through with plenty of minus 30 - minus 40 weeks. They get bored and it seems they will eat cause it's there and they have nothing better to do.
So judging how much to feed them based on how much they eat does not work either.
Making good hay in theory is a science, but in reality until you can control the weather it's nothing more than luck.
Let the alfalfa go past bloom the protien and quality will drop some and the yield will go up, exactly what you want.
 
It's really a simple problem, and explained by Bud Costello years ago- if they're mudders, just feed the fodder.......
 

Best thing is to go to your local extension office and get a bulletin on "balancing a ration" it will tell you how much protein and energy you need according to the size of the horse, the amount of exercise, and the time of year and even for when gestating and lactating. Then you will also need to get the hay tested and plug in the results.
 
Your location being in Massachusetts, you have similar weather, and terrain, soils may vary, but its eastern woodland, likely with meadows, ag fields, surrounded by hedgerows, woodland, rolling hills and some more open, larger fields, the conditions are similar and familiar, so is the weather.

The weather will always dictate what you get as far as hay is concerned, some years good, excellent, some could be a wash out, last June was a perfect example of this, if you did not take a lesser cutting in May, you likely would get stalky over ripe grasses, that once dried for baling, could be closer to straw with the additional bleaching from the sun.

I've always preferred to take earlier, less stalky cuttings, for horses, dries faster, better quality, less dust from the lack of heads and so on. You will get less tonnage, but more cuttings, kind of the game you play, but feed quality will be there, if you can avoid rain, and too much dry time, it stays greener and horses, well ours at least, just love this green and leafy hay.

I've fed all kinds of hay over the years, when I was a kid, to later years while dealing with horses up to a few years ago. We used to feed alfalfa, (sparingly as a treat) regular hay grasses, as best can be harvested, and clover alfalfa timothy hay grass mixtures of various quality, all dictated by the weather.

With the higher quality, high feed value type of hay, you don't feed that in any excess, sparingly and never change them over to anything lush immediately, always gradually, in small quantities. The main stay should be a quality hay grass with decent feed quality, I find with overipe, stalky bleached out hay, they pick through it and mash the rest into the bedding, now whether the horses are spoiled with good green leafy grass hay or otherwise turning their nose up to it, well that depends on other things as well, that is unique to who cares for them. I find that, just like what they graze in the field, the closer to what they prefer that you can bale, is what works best. You can see the lawn like areas know what that is, and the over grown, over ripe grasses, headed out or otherwise not so desirable, your stand of hay grasses should match what they prefer in my opinion. Now I am not saying you need to be overly fanatical about hay, you do the best you can, I've never fussed about hay that's bought or that I have put up myself, if I can better a stand of grasses, by all means, weather might just negate that anyway, what you buy, its a decision, if its decent, it will be just fine, just don't sell me dusty straw, or molded hay, or bleached out, heavily rained on hay. Its simple to discern whats what. Over ripe, with a green tint is still just fine, just that they make pick through it, mix with bedding and you will feed lots more of it, sometimes that's all you can get so you work with it, like has been said, better than snowballs in the winter.

I've often taken lush 2nd cuttings, straight up grasses, clover/alfalfa mix, and as much as I could get of this, along with various quality of first cuttings, to make up the overall feed stock I will use for the year. I then feed accordingly, sure its a real treat to feed some lush green hay, but its ok to mix or feed when one gets thin, during the winter, which I often saved 2nd cut or high feed value for, and fed accordingly, by how much I have on hand, what the horse(s) may need, etc. My preference is for the greenest "leafiest" hay I can get, does not always work that way. Some fields are nice clover mixes, some straight up grasses, taken at various stages, so you make the best of all of it and feed it out as makes sense with what you have and plan as best you can for the off season, late fall, winter and spring. Put up what you need, buy what you need as best you can do with what you have.

Now with a stand of hay grasses, I find that the higher the feed value of what you produce, by virtue of what is planted and maintained, has value, say you get rain on it, you lose some feed value, but you have more to start with, say it just needs more dry time, more bleaching, you still have more to start with, a poor stand just won't give you that, and weather will always dictate around here. If its in the swath, one side may bleach, bottom won't you lose some, not all, same if in the windrow, though you will lose more if the previous, higher quality to start with, all is not lost, I've bought nice hay that had a little rain on it in each stage, but the stand was excellent and it weathered the rain with plenty left over, maybe it was closer to a late first cut, this is the game you have to play. One stand, adjacent to our land, recent planting thick with timothy, cut at the right time, we got a little rain that night, was in the swath, he raked it up, little bleaching, baled soon after and delivered late that afternoon, you could hardly tell, he knew how to plant, grow and maintain a stand of hay grasses, best fields I have ever seen are ones he planted, I've baled a lot of the same when working for him, I really enjoyed the work too, small squares and all, because it was high quality.

In the last few weeks, there has been weather windows to take early cuttings, as well as the last few days before the weather system that just gave us a nice rain, perfect conditions, but with just enough time. I have a stand of grasses that I have only kept cut, over the years, and it was established as alfalfa/timothy mix back in the late 60's, its never been anything else, was behind our barns, part of a large field, this is the last remaining section. Its mostly grasses, but with 2 kinds of weeds sparingly throughout, as is, it would make excellent hay, I've done nothing to it, ever. If I were to spray for those weeds, address PH, and fertility, possibly overseed, it would be minimal to obtain a great stand. In the photos, its at its peak, topped out, headed out, as tall as it will get, and I have seen it almost 6 feet some years, this year its 4 feet, greener because of the snow, it got a late start, but it would give the most yield now, earlier, less stalk, quicker dry time and very good feed value, they just like 2nd cut or early first cut. I took a sample with the lawn mower, dried in windrows and on a tarp, out of the sun, now you just wish you could mass produce that kind of hay LOL. I know its good, as I have a couple of pet voles and they just love it, go figure, a critter that is sustained on roots and lush green forage, loves this hay and they are healthy and happy as can be. 2 completely different animals, but both love and thrive on quality hay, you could feed this as a treat like those green cubes you buy for horses.

The stand in the photo, its ideal right now, for both yield, and quality, its a shame to take it down with the rotary mower, probably 200 small bales in there, but I do not have the means to put up hay, if I did, every acre here would be planted in it, and I'd put it up for our horses or sell it, focusing on the highest quality I can make, all dependent on the weather.

This is lengthy, I enjoy the discussion, lots of good information shared by all, fun to participate at lunch time, now I had best go get the patch of dirt planted in the photo, or there will be no sweet corn for the deer, er uh I mean me LOL !!!
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You are absolutely correct that horses can be easily overfed and that is why people should get some reliable reference materials and educate themselves as to feeding whatever livestock they own. Back when we grew and cut Alfalfa in my part of Louisiana we always cut it with a straight sickle bar mower, the conditioner is what kills the majority of the blister beetles if they are present but they will just run out of a field cut with a sickle bar, if there was a heavy infestation we sprayed around the first 15-20 feet of the fields perimeter to kill the beetles when they left the field. Scouting the hay is as important as scouting any other crop and I always wonder why people fail to do it.
 
Some people measure following the curves of the body using their hands or a measuring tape. Some use a stick that measures from the ground and has a sliding piece that reaches over to the horse"s withers.

As with just about anything horse related, there"s more than one way to do it and opinions as to which way is correct.
 
I have had horses all my life a good pasture mix is best clover timothy orchard grass fescue I'd stay away from to much alfalfa hard on the kidneys
 
Brome is a good hay to feed if it will grow in your area. That is all I feed to my brood for roughage. That and just a little oats with trace minerals. Bob
 
If we manage it, I'll record it.

Our 4h club restores old equipment, and we've got a new Holland super 66 with the Wisconsin engine.

One of the horses used to pull one just like it back in amish country. The other one, we're still trying to get a feel for, she's might take a while to get used to the noise.

AND of course I've got to fix one of the )(#*$#)$*knotters on the baler.

Tried to get it going last year, but continued having trouble with one knotter.
 
The only caveat with what you're saying is that of the ten horses... you'll probably only find five that are 'healthy'. They rest will all have some range of issues... and the hay will invariably be blamed for ALL of the problems.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 11:55:25 06/04/14) Nancy don't measure straight up you have to include all the curves in the body. If you come straight out from the withers and then go straight down you will have less hands.

Walt
I've never seen a horses height measured by following the curves of it's body. I used a measuring stick similar to this one and measured straight up.
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(quoted from post at 03:43:31 06/05/14)
(quoted from post at 11:55:25 06/04/14) Nancy don't measure straight up you have to include all the curves in the body. If you come straight out from the withers and then go straight down you will have less hands.

Walt
I've never seen a horses height measured by following the curves of it's body. I used a measuring stick similar to this one and measured straight up.
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Same here. Sounds like a way to add an extra hand to a horse you're selling.
 

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